Baseball vs. Georgia State Story

[Alan Cole]

Drove down to Augusta for the 4-3 midweek win over Georgia State. Updated story with quotes from Mark Kingston, Tyler Causey and Matthew Becker on where the Gamecocks stand heading into SEC play:

GamecockScoop - Causey, Bullpen Guide Gamecocks To 4-3 Win Over Georgia State

South Carolina baseball had just enough to beat Georgia State in the final game before SEC Play.

southcarolina.rivals.com

 

[sclawman77]

I was there. Messina had a good night hitting. Gainey looked solid pitching the last two innings. Got the save and 5 strikeouts.

 

[DeeDave]

Good story. The hitting is a problem. That's obvious.

Left a lot of people on base.

Sadly, this is becoming a theme this year- as it has in past years. Timely hitting is a problem that is not season specific it seems.

 

[PaleoCock]

Good story. The hitting is a problem. That's obvious.

Left a lot of people on base.

Sadly, this is becoming a theme this year- as it has in past years. Timely hitting is a problem that is not season specific it seems.

We're averaging close to 9 runs a game this season and are currently 14-3 and ranked #20. We lost 2 one-run games to the #10 team in the country.

Last season, we were in the Top 10 most of the season and lost to the runner-up of the College World Series by a hair in the Super Regionals.

 

[DeeDave]

We're averaging close to 9 runs a game this season and are currently 14-3 and ranked #20. We lost 2 one-run games to the #10 team in the country.

Last season, we were in the Top 10 most of the season and lost to the runner-up of the College World Series by a hair in the Super Regionals.

"Timely hitting" is not measured in total runs scored.

Timely hitting refers to men left on base.

We struck out 13 times last night. We were 3 for 15 with runners on base.

When we faced a good Clemson team, our timely hitting was bad.

This is an ongoing theme that's hung around way too long.

 

[PaleoCock]

"Timely hitting" is not measured in total runs scored.

Timely hitting refers to men left on base.

We struck out 13 times last night. We were 3 for 15 with runners on base.

When we faced a good Clemson team, our timely hitting was bad.

This is an ongoing theme that's hung around way too long.

So your concern is timely hitting as opposed runs scored, record and rank? Please explain.

If you're scoring close to 9 runs a game, it doesn't matter how many men you leave on base.

 

[cockofdawn]

We're averaging close to 9 runs a game this season and are currently 14-3 and ranked #20. We lost 2 one-run games to the #10 team in the country.

Last season, we were in the Top 10 most of the season and lost to the runner-up of the College World Series by a hair in the Super Regionals.

You need to look at Competition so far, only good team (Power Five) is taters. SC lost to Both. Better clean up alot of things before SEC gauntlet!!

 

[cockofdawn]

So your concern is timely hitting as opposed runs scored, record and rank? Please explain.

If you're scoring close to 9 runs a game, it doesn't matter how many men you leave on base.

Your "Averages" are skewed, 22 Vs Longwood and 14 vs Miami (Not Fla, OHIO)

 

[PaleoCock]

Your "Averages" are skewed, 22 Vs Longwood and 14 vs Miami (Not Fla, OHIO)

We're ranked 28th in the country for runs scored. Even if you cap those games at 8-9 runs, we're well ahead of some teams ranked in the Top 10 including Clemson who is ranked #70 in that category.

The point I was trying to convey was why complain about hitting and runners left on base (which he termed sad) before you look at overall offensive production and results?

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/baseball/d1/current/team/486

 

[cockofdawn]

We're ranked 28th in the country for runs scored. Even if you cap those games at 8-9 runs, we're well ahead of some teams ranked in the Top 10 including Clemson who is ranked #70 in that category.

The point I was trying to convey was why complain about hitting and runners left on base (which he termed sad) before you look at overall offensive production and results?

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/baseball/d1/current/team/486

Again, look at the Competition, They had what 7 hits last night against Ga State's Mid Week?? You also need to look at Walks By opposing Pitchers, SC might be #1

 

[PaleoCock]

Again, look at the Competition, They had what 7 hits last night against Ga State's Mid Week?? You also need to look at Walks By opposing Pitchers, SC might be #1

Couldn't the same be said of most all P5 teams right now? They're all currently playing non-conference opponents which include teams they run it up on.

 

[DeeDave]

So your concern is timely hitting as opposed runs scored, record and rank? Please explain.

If you're scoring close to 9 runs a game, it doesn't matter how many men you leave on base.

Timely hitting and men left on base is a pretty big deal in baseball.

You aren't scoring 9 runs a game on average against the better teams. So you better not have a history of leaving a lot of men on base against weaker teams.

going 3-15 with people on base against Ga. State isn't good. If that were the only team we had that issue with, I wouldn't be concerned. Leaving men on base is a theme with this program for awhile now. I'm not the only one that has noticed this. It's something that's talked about by a lot of people that closely follow the program.

and let's not give Clemson too much credit at this point in the season. They might be the #1 team in the country and our close losses might look fantastic in a month. But it's early. They might be out of the top 30 in a month too. We don't know.

Regardless, leaving men on base has been an issue through most of Kingston's tenure. It's not good to see it cropping up again no matter how bad we beat some weak teams.

 

[PaleoCock]

Timely hitting and men left on base is a pretty big deal in baseball.

You aren't scoring 9 runs a game on average against the better teams. So you better not have a history of leaving a lot of men on base against weaker teams.

going 3-15 with people on base against Ga. State isn't good. If that were the only team we had that issue with, I wouldn't be concerned. Leaving men on base is a theme with this program for awhile now.

Just finished a few posts on this above. We rank well for offensive production and most of P5 is playing the weak part of their schedule at the moment. We're doing well on that front in comparison with the others.

 

[DeeDave]

Couldn't the same be said of most all P5 teams right now? They're all currently playing non-conference opponents which include teams they run it up on.

our SOS right now is 66.

Some out of conference schedules are better than others.

 

[PaleoCock]

our SOS right now is 66.

Some out of conference schedules are better than others.

Source?

We're #28 in runs scored to Clemson's #70. Non-con SOS is not going to make up for that.

 

[DeeDave]

Just finished a few posts on this above. We rank well for offensive production and most of P5 is playing the weak part of their schedule at the moment. We're doing well on that front in comparison with the others.

Ok. I don't want to argue about it.

I'm stunned at anyone who follows our program closely doesn't acknowledge the severe problem we've had for a number of seasons with men left on base- and acknowledging it's cropping up again this year.

But, as in seasons before, it will become obvious soon enough if they have not found the remedy that has evaded them in the past.

 

[PaleoCock]

Ok. I don't want to argue about it.

I'm stunned at anyone who follows our program closely doesn't acknowledge the severe problem we've had for a number of seasons with men left on base- and acknowledging it's cropping up again this year.

But, as in seasons before, it will become obvious soon enough if they have not found the remedy that has evaded them in the past.

I like stats versus talking points. If you're scoring close to 9 runs a game and are also leaving men on base, you have a good offense.

Can you please send me the link for SOS that you cited?

 

[DeeDave]

Source?

We're #28 in runs scored to Clemson's #70. Non-con SOS is not going to make up for that.

Warren Nolan. Anyone can look it up.

 

[DeeDave]

Source?

We're #28 in runs scored to Clemson's #70. Non-con SOS is not going to make up for that.

As I stated

"Timely hitting" is not measured in total runs scored.

Timely hitting refers to men left on base.

We struck out 13 times last night. We were 3 for 15 with runners on base.

 

[PaleoCock]

Warren Nolan. Anyone can look it up.

Thanks. There are about 20 sites all giving different SOS.

 

[DeeDave]

Just a reminder- here is a write up on another site about the Clemson series

"On Saturday, the Gamecocks logged just 6 hits before a 9th-inning rally, but 6 hits would have been nice on Sunday. Carolina tallied just 5 knocks against the Tigers. The pitching was good enough to win, and the offense did a good job of manufacturing some base runners through walks (7), hit-by-pitches (2), and reaching by errors (2).

However, with only 2 hits with runners on base, USC only managed 3 runs until the 9th."

 

[PaleoCock]

As I stated

If you're 14-3 and lost two one-run games to a Top 10 team, you're getting timely hitting. Last season, we were a Top 10 team throughout.

 

[PaleoCock]

Just a reminder- here is a write up on another site about the Clemson series

"On Saturday, the Gamecocks logged just 6 hits before a 9th-inning rally, but 6 hits would have been nice on Sunday. Carolina tallied just 5 knocks against the Tigers. The pitching was good enough to win, and the offense did a good job of manufacturing some base runners through walks (7), hit-by-pitches (2), and reaching by errors (2).

However, with only 2 hits with runners on base, USC only managed 3 runs until the 9th."

That's a writeup for any loss in college baseball. You have to zoom out.

 

[DeeDave]

If you're 14-3 and lost two one-run games to a Top 10 team, you're getting timely hitting. Last season, we were a Top 10 team throughout.

your not getting timely hitting when you constantly leave men on base in key situations-like last night- like both games against the only good team we've played.

Quoting from the article in The State-

"South Carolina has a problem. There are very few innings that end without a Gamecock — or three — stranded on the base paths. During Sunday’s series finale against Longwood, South Carolina left 11 men on base — twice ending innings with the bases juiced.

Even before the matinee, the Gamecocks were in a different stratosphere at leaving runners aboard. Here’s how they stacked up with the other eight ranked SEC teams in runners left on base (LOB) heading into Sunday.

No. 8 Tennessee — 108
No. 2 Arkansas — 110
No. 19 Auburn — 113
No. 4 Florida — 117
No. 15 Alabama — 122
No. 9 Vanderbilt — 125
No. 7 Texas A&M — 133
No. 3 LSU — 137
No. 21 South Carolina — 166

After Sunday, the Gamecocks are hitting .280 as a team, but just .266 with runners on base and only .238 with runners in scoring position."

That's a problem. It's not a new problem. It's an old problem and it's showing up again. Probably one of the reasons (among others) Kingston has a losing record in the SEC.

We will see going forward.

 

[PaleoCock]

your not getting timely hitting when you constantly leave men on base in key situations-like last night- like both games against the only good team we've played.

Quoting from the article in The State-

"South Carolina has a problem. There are very few innings that end without a Gamecock — or three — stranded on the base paths. During Sunday’s series finale against Longwood, South Carolina left 11 men on base — twice ending innings with the bases juiced.

Even before the matinee, the Gamecocks were in a different stratosphere at leaving runners aboard. Here’s how they stacked up with the other eight ranked SEC teams in runners left on base (LOB) heading into Sunday.

No. 8 Tennessee — 108
No. 2 Arkansas — 110
No. 19 Auburn — 113
No. 4 Florida — 117
No. 15 Alabama — 122
No. 9 Vanderbilt — 125
No. 7 Texas A&M — 133
No. 3 LSU — 137
No. 21 South Carolina — 166

After Sunday, the Gamecocks are hitting .280 as a team, but just .266 with runners on base and only .238 with runners in scoring position."

That's a problem. It's not a new problem. It's an old problem and it's showing up again. Probably one of the reasons (among others) Kingston has a losing record in the SEC.

We will see going forward.

All this means to me when you combine it with our scoring average is that we're getting on base a good amount which is a good thing. I don't see how you can interpret it differently.

Most of the teams you listed score fewer runs than we do. Are we supposed to applaud them because they leave fewer runners on base? This is just manufactured talking points from The State. We were one of the best teams in the country last season and we've only lost 3 games this year, with two by one run on the road to the #10-ranked Tigers. That's good baseball to date.

 

[turncock]

All this means to me when you combine it with our scoring average is that we're getting on base a good amount which is a good thing. I don't see how you can interpret it differently.

Most of the teams you listed score fewer runs than we do. Are we supposed to applaud them because they leave fewer runners on base? This is just manufactured talking points from The State. We were one of the best teams in the country last season and we've only lost 3 games this year, with two by one run on the road to the #10-ranked Tigers. That's good baseball to date.

Agree. The timely hitting thing was always a head-scratcher to me. Players all have similar breathing and warm-up routines both in practice and before batting in games. What is a coaching staff supposed to do about untimely hitting stretches? You're typically not going to replace a .325 batter with a .180 batter because there's a chance he's better under pressure. You play to have the odds and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[DeeDave]

Agree. The timely hitting thing was always a head-scratcher to me. Players all have similar breathing and warm-up routines both in practice and before batting in games. What is a coaching staff supposed to do about untimely hitting stretches? You're typically not going to replace a .325 batter with a .180 batter because there's a chance he's better under pressure. You play to have the odds and let the chips fall where they may.

When a team has multiple seasons upon multiple seasons leaving a lot of people on base- leaving a lot more on base than similar teams- especially really good teams, it's an issue.

Some teams are simply better at getting guys home than others- just like some football teams are better in the red-zone than others.

Of course you aren't usually going to replace a really good hitter with a bad hitter. Although some baseball managers do have a good track record of timely pinch hitters (Ray tanner was one- but there are others that seem to have a knack for it).

Just like in football, you don't replace a good qb with a bad qb. That doesn't mean you pretend the good QB is good in the red-zone when his red-zone stats aren't very good year after year.

 

[DeeDave]

All this means to me when you combine it with our scoring average is that we're getting on base a good amount which is a good thing. I don't see how you can interpret it differently.

Most of the teams you listed score fewer runs than we do. Are we supposed to applaud them because they leave fewer runners on base? This is just manufactured talking points from The State. We were one of the best teams in the country last season and we've only lost 3 games this year, with two by one run on the road to the #10-ranked Tigers. That's good baseball to date.

Getting on base a good amount is good. NO one would ever disagree with that.

Getting on base and not getting runners home in crucial situations over and over again is not a good thing- and an issue that hurts teams when they play decent or really good teams.

If a team scores "fewer runs than we do" but gets players across the plate when it counts, that matters more than scoring a lot of runs.

There is no prize in baseball for scoring a lot of runs if you don't get them across the plate when it counts and you end up losing too many games by not being able to get all those guys that got on base home when it matters in a close game.

I'm not saying (and no one is saying) it's a big deal to leave a good number on base if you are beating good teams 10-3.

But when you are losing against good teams and leaving lots of guys on base, that's a problem. It's been a problem, and from the small sample we have this year, it's still remaining a problem.

Even the Late Tommy Moody talked about this way too much over the last several years.

We will see if leaving men on base starts hurting us against SEC teams.

Right now, the numbers we are leaving on base are quite high.

 

[turncock]

When a team has multiple seasons upon multiple seasons leaving a lot of people on base- leaving a lot more on base than similar teams- especially really good teams, it's an issue.

Some teams are simply better at getting guys home than others- just like some football teams are better in the red-zone than others.

Of course you aren't usually going to replace a really good hitter with a bad hitter. Although some baseball managers do have a good track record of timely pinch hitters (Ray tanner was one- but there are others that seem to have a knack for it).

Just like in football, you don't replace a good qb with a bad qb. That doesn't mean you pretend the good QB is good in the red-zone when his red-zone stats aren't very good year after year.

So if you're not going to switch out batters, what are you supposed to do about it? Otherwise good hitters can't go into a yoga routine before they bat. Psychotherapy for the team?

IMO, timely hitting is an enigma stat. Teams with a good offensive production typically leave more men on base than those who don't. Also, in baseball, you can always find a stat to criticize with any team regardless of their standing.

The idea that we struggled last season is a weird position too. We were 34-6 and ranked #3 in the country after sweeping #2 UF last season. We then hit a batting slump that coincided with a rash of injuries. The team was able to rebound in the post season and lost to the CWS runner-up in a close series in the Supers. Overall, we were one of the best teams in the country and it was a great season by any measure.

 

[DeeDave]

So if you're not going to switch out batters, what are you supposed to do about it? Otherwise good hitters can't go into a yoga routine before they bat. Psychotherapy for the team?

IMO, timely hitting is an enigma stat. Teams with a good offensive production typically leave more men on base than those who don't. Also, in baseball, you can always find a stat to criticize with any team regardless of their standing.

The idea that we struggled last season is a weird position too. We were 34-6 and ranked #3 in the country after sweeping #2 UF last season. We then hit a batting slump that coincided with a rash of injuries. The team was able to rebound in the post season and lost to the CWS runner-up in a close series in the Supers. Overall, we were one of the best teams in the country and it was a great season by any measure.

I didn't say I wouldn't switch out batters. I wouldn't likely replace a good hitter with a lousy one. But I wouldn't replace a good Qb with a lousy one either. That doesn't mean the starter is good when he gets into the redzone.

This isn't a one year issue. It requires recruiting better, maybe it requires a different approach at the plate or different focus. I don't have those answers. I can look at the stats and see this has been an issue and so far this year, it's an issue.

I just know there are teams that are good at it year in and year out and there are those that aren't really good at it. We are one, per the stats, that isn't very good at it. As I mentioned, might be one of the reasons Kingston has a losing SEC record.

it doesn't always mean you are going to be a a bad team. It very well likely is the difference in a team that doesn't make it to Omaha and one who does

As mentioned above- Men left on base for the ranked SEC teams so far this season

No. 8 Tennessee — 108
No. 2 Arkansas — 110
No. 19 Auburn — 113
No. 4 Florida — 117
No. 15 Alabama — 122
No. 9 Vanderbilt — 125
No. 7 Texas A&M — 133
No. 3 LSU — 137
No. 21 South Carolina — 166

 

[turncock]

I didn't say I wouldn't switch out batters. I wouldn't likely replace a good hitter with a lousy one. But I wouldn't replace a good Qb with a lousy one either. That doesn't mean the starter is good when he gets into the redzone.

This isn't a one year issue. It requires recruiting better, maybe it requires a different approach at the plate or different focus. I don't have those answers. I can look at the stats and see this has been an issue and so far this year, it's an issue.

I just know there are teams that are good at it year in and year out and there are those that aren't really good at it. We are one, per the stats, that isn't very good at it. As I mentioned, might be one of the reasons Kingston has a losing SEC record.

it doesn't always mean you are going to be a a bad team. It very well likely is the difference in a team that doesn't make it to Omaha and one who does

As mentioned above- Men left on base for the ranked SEC teams so far this season

No. 8 Tennessee — 108
No. 2 Arkansas — 110
No. 19 Auburn — 113
No. 4 Florida — 117
No. 15 Alabama — 122
No. 9 Vanderbilt — 125
No. 7 Texas A&M — 133
No. 3 LSU — 137
No. 21 South Carolina — 166

Again, I just don't see anyone offering any solutions for leaving runners on base. If you're not scoring runs and leaving runners on base, then you might have to re-imagine your batting lineup. If you're scoring ample runs and also leaving men on base, that's a sign of a good offense. For the majority of losses that occur in baseball, you could point to leaving runners on base as one of the issues.

 

[cockofdawn]

Again, I just don't see anyone offering any solutions for leaving runners on base. If you're not scoring runs and leaving runners on base, then you might have to re-imagine your batting lineup. If you're scoring ample runs and also leaving men on base, that's a sign of a good offense. For the majority of losses that occur in baseball, you could point to leaving runners on base as one of the issues.

That is for a "GOOD" manager to figure out!! Not us Hacks on a Forum!!

 

[turncock]

That is for a "GOOD" manager to figure out!! Not us Hacks on a Forum!!

Possibly. I'm just not sure there's much witchcraft to it. We're close to the top of the SEC in total offense and home runs. A "defect" of good offensive production is runners left on base. It's a good problem to have in our situation.

In terms of timely hitting, you find your best clutch hitters who have ice in their veins and weigh that against their overall batting average to determine who you want at the plate in the right moments. I'd like to believe the staff is on top of this too. It's not an overly difficult analysis.

However, we'll see how we stack up in SEC action when it's easier to make these evaluations with everyone playing each other.

 

[DeeDave]

.

However, we'll see how we stack up in SEC action when it's easier to make these evaluations with everyone playing each other.

True. If history is an indication, this will be an issue.

I don't think I'm raising a controversial point. There is one "insider" on another board that is known as probably the best baseball insider we have over the years covering our team and he's mentioned the issue with leaving runners on base for years now.

Of course everyone leaves men on base. But teams that leave men on base in crucial situations- on a regular basis, are the ones that have the issue.

The elite teams in the county that are going to Omaha every 3-5 years (or more) aren't having this problem over and over and over.

We will see how it works out this weekend.

 

[turncock]

True. If history is an indication, this will be an issue.

I don't think I'm raising a controversial point. There is one "insider" on another board that is known as probably the best baseball insider we have over the years covering our team and he's mentioned the issue with leaving runners on base for years now.

Of course everyone leaves men on base. But teams that leave men on base in crucial situations- on a regular basis, are the ones that have the issue.

The elite teams in the county that are going to Omaha every 3-5 years (or more) aren't having this problem over and over and over.

We will see how it works out this weekend.

Agree. We'll see. They were saying the same thing last season about this time and we proceeded to scorch SEC conference play for 2/3rds of the year before those injuries. Leaving players on base is a common talking point when teams aren't winning. However, it's not of much relevance when you are winning and your offensive production is on point.

 

[Southern Fried Chicken]

IMO, timely hitting is an enigma stat. Teams with a good offensive production typically leave more men on base than those who don't. Also, in baseball, you can always find a stat to criticize with any team regardless of their standing.

Certainly, not disagreeing/nor arguing your point. Had #75 this week so, obviously, I don't know my ass from a hole in the ground. Only ever saw 1 or 5 stars or so, play live. The Mick, Maris, Mattingly Barry Larkin, Paul O'Neil., CC. Yogi. Mrs Schotts's CPA was our close mutual friend.

I sincerely don't understand many of these BS (that means bullshit) stats y'all dreamt up. But, in the Old Days, we referred to it as 'Clutch Hitting".

I do not believe that YOU KNOW YOUR ASS FROM A HOLE IN THE GROUND EITHER!!!

 

[Southern Fried Chicken]

A "defect" of good offensive production is runners left on base. It's a good problem to have in our situation.

However, we'll see how we stack up in SEC action when it's easier to make these evaluations with everyone playing each other.

Something I've watched the past several seasons (Retired so, I watch many SEC+ games) ... we are "reluctant" to go for it from 2nd base, during MANY scoring opportunities. TOO MANY!!!

 

[DeeDave]

Lost the series with Ole Miss (lost Friday and Saturday)

In Saturday's game, South Carolina was 1-for-11 with runners in scoring position and 3-for-16 with runners on base

 

[turncock]

I see no reason to evaluate the baseball team on a game by game basis. As mentioned, the pundits were saying the same thing last season and we ended up as one of the best teams in the country.

Some coaching staffs are more aggressive than others. If you take less risk in terms of baserunning, you're going to leave more players on base. However, there's also benefit to taking less risk in terms of staying alive in an inning. Let's see how it all plays out before we pre-burn Kingston at the stake again this season.

 

[DeeDave]

I see no reason to evaluate the baseball team on a game by game basis. As mentioned, the pundits were saying the same thing last season and we ended up as one of the best teams in the country.

Some coaching staffs are more aggressive than others. If you take less risk in terms of baserunning, you're going to leave more players on base. However, there's also benefit to taking less risk in terms of staying alive in an inning. Let's see how it all plays out before we pre-burn Kingston at the stake again this season.

I evaluate teams as the season goes along, series by series.

We lost this one and left a ton of guys on base. a long pattern by us.