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Falling for it once again and not a bit sorry

ElcidCock97

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Dec 1, 2018
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I come from a long line of Gamecock family members, and between us, we have probably seen it all- early, middle, and late season USC football crashes. With visions of glory every new season, we somehow never seem to be able to reach a level of satisfaction. Are we the Charlie Brown of college football? However this year ends up going, let's keep our sense of humor and class- it really is what separates us from other programs. It's about us, not them.

https://slate.com/culture/2014/10/t...tball-away-from-charlie-brown-in-peanuts.html
 
Charlie Brown is the very definition of a "lovable loser." Personally, I think he should have learned his lesson the 2nd time Lucy pulled the ball back. After that, he should have spread nasty, baseless rumors about her until she developed a deep psychosis.
 
I read that Slate article too. I would like to think our fan base still has a dignified resilience about them, but there sure are a lot of whiners losing their minds about a kids’ game these days.

One reason I became a Gamecock fan in the first place was because they tended to be the underdogs, and it seemed like the more insecure “front runner” type kids that gravitated towards Clemson.

In any event, I’m actually pretty excited to see what Hilinski and a team that rallies around him might be able to pull off against this schedule. We weren’t going to win any championships this year anyway. I feel bad for Jake, but we might as well fight like hell and see what happens.
 
I see our fan base has reverted back to the pre-Spurrier mentality of accepting loss instead of trying to achieve more.

I am 65 years old. I've seen this most of my adult life. But I don't accept it. And we won't win 10 games and challenge for an SEC title with Ray Tanner as AD and Will Muschamp as head coach. We've seen their best.

Structural changes need to be made that installs some accountability. Politics and doing favors has to recede if we are going to become a successful football program.
 
I see our fan base has reverted back to the pre-Spurrier mentality of accepting loss instead of trying to achieve more.

I am 65 years old. I've seen this most of my adult life. But I don't accept it. And we won't win 10 games and challenge for an SEC title with Ray Tanner as AD and Will Muschamp as head coach. We've seen their best.

Structural changes need to be made that installs some accountability. Politics and doing favors has to recede if we are going to become a successful football program.

Yeah, I'm not quite sure I understand the mentality some fans have. They try to guilt other fans for being upset that we are losers. "If you were a REAL fan, you'd enjoy our mediocrity and continual 'next year' status."
 
I see our fan base has reverted back to the pre-Spurrier mentality of accepting loss instead of trying to achieve more.
....

Would you explain how fans being supportive and optimistic for the team that loses a game equates to a team winning in the future? I am having trouble seeing a connection between a team's on field performance and some vocal minority of fans voicing displeasure on social media.

I'm sorry for being dense, but it seems more more likely a riotous, critical, angry outcry by fans would more likely have the opposite effect on the team, maybe demoralizing it and injuring recruiting for the future. But maybe you can explain it so I will understand what you mean. Thank you for helping me understand.
 
Would you explain how fans being supportive and optimistic for the team that loses a game equates to a team winning in the future? I am having trouble seeing a connection between a team's on field performance and some vocal minority of fans voicing displeasure on social media.

I'm sorry for being dense, but it seems more more likely a riotous, critical, angry outcry by fans would more likely have the opposite effect on the team, maybe demoralizing it and injuring recruiting for the future. But maybe you can explain it so I will understand what you mean. Thank you for helping me understand.

I agree a vocal minority on social media have no impact on the direction of the program. For that reason: they are the minority. The vast majority of the fan base doesn't really care all that much about the success or failure of the team. Your run of the mill fan really doesn't care if we finish 8-4 or 4-8. It is the minority of the fan base that gives a rip how the team performs. As long as most of the fan base is indifferent, there is no motivation for the admin to affect any changes. As long as tickets are being sold and the program is profitable, what motivation is there win more? If we were suddenly averaging 40k fans per game, the higher-ups would take notice. But that'll NEVER happen here b/c the fan base is absolutely programmed to be supportive of mediocrity and actually embrace it as part of our identity.

That's what make Dabo's run at Clemson remarkable. While they've always been better than us as a program (with a few minor blips here and there), Dabo brought in the mentality that pushed them to the next level. The fan base, for their part, was never content with just being ok under Bowden. They got sick of the 8 or 9 win seasons and only ever being almost good enough. Dabo instituted a standard of excellence. It took some time to take root, but the results are undeniable.

We just don't have that here and probably never will. Fans are just consumers and the team is just the product. The product will never improve as long as the consumer is ok with it how it is.
 
I agree a vocal minority on social media have no impact on the direction of the program. For that reason: they are the minority. The vast majority of the fan base doesn't really care all that much about the success or failure of the team. Your run of the mill fan really doesn't care if we finish 8-4 or 4-8. It is the minority of the fan base that gives a rip how the team performs. As long as most of the fan base is indifferent, there is no motivation for the admin to affect any changes. As long as tickets are being sold and the program is profitable, what motivation is there win more? If we were suddenly averaging 40k fans per game, the higher-ups would take notice. But that'll NEVER happen here b/c the fan base is absolutely programmed to be supportive of mediocrity and actually embrace it as part of our identity.

Strange. I remember a lot of folks in our fanbase were pretty excited about the baseball and women's basketball championships, and the recent final four appearance by men's bb. I guess it's just me. Weird.
 
Strange. I remember a lot of folks in our fanbase were pretty excited about the baseball and women's basketball championships, and the recent final four appearance by men's bb. I guess it's just me. Weird.

The men's bb is a perfect example.

We made it one FF and most fans believe that gives Frank life-long immunity from any job scrutiny.

Edit: can't help but note that all your examples were from sports other than football, which is the focus of the discussion here.
 
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I come from a long line of Gamecock family members, and between us, we have probably seen it all- early, middle, and late season USC football crashes. With visions of glory every new season, we somehow never seem to be able to reach a level of satisfaction. Are we the Charlie Brown of college football? However this year ends up going, let's keep our sense of humor and class- it really is what separates us from other programs. It's about us, not them.

https://slate.com/culture/2014/10/t...tball-away-from-charlie-brown-in-peanuts.html
If we are CB, Dabo is Lucy.
 
What's funny to me is how some fans are in denial about things when these are the EXACT SAME conversations people were having about Gamecock football 30 years ago. Absolutely, positively nothing has changed since the 80s.
 
What's funny to me is how some fans are in denial about things when these are the EXACT SAME conversations people were having about Gamecock football 30 years ago. Absolutely, positively nothing has changed since the 80s.

Your perspective is really weird to me. When the Gamecock FB team is winning and competitive, our fans are louder than anyone. I don't know how many celebrities have been flabbergasted by the hostile environment our fans create for opposing teams. Moreover, I don't know anyone who has experienced one of those games, who doesn't relish the experience and hope it can be recreated. To me, your hypothesis fails because you don't accept what our eyes and ears have heard many times during that same time period.

The men's bb is a perfect example.

We made it one FF and most fans believe that gives Frank life-long immunity from any job scrutiny.

Edit: can't help but note that all your examples were from sports other than football, which is the focus of the discussion here.

Well, it might be that Frank has one of the best teams coming this year since he has been here. Also, it is obvious to anyone who knows BB, the man can flat out coach BB.
 
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Your perspective is really weird to me. When the Gamecock FB team is winning and competitive, our fans are louder than anyone. I don't know how many celebrities have been flabbergasted by the hostile environment our fans create for opposing teams. Moreover, I don't know anyone who has experienced one of those games, who doesn't relish the experience and hope it can be recreated. To me, your hypothesis fails because you don't accept what our eyes and ears have heard many times during that same time period.

I'm not denying there isn't excitement when the team performs well. But, by and large, the fan base is going to support the team regardless of the quality of the product on the field.
 
I'm not denying there isn't excitement when the team performs well. But, by and large, the fan base is going to support the team regardless of the quality of the product on the field.

That's loyalty. There is nothing wrong with it. It is one of the best qualities of the Gamecocks fans. We don't jump off the bandwagon when the road is a little bumpy. We stick to our team whether in mountains or valleys.

Besides, the excitement we Gamecocks fans generate at WB, demonstrates what fans want. They want a winner, and the sentiment is expressed by the crowd. There is no question any fair minded person can see the difference in our fans reaction by how our crowds respond. Nobody in the administration or on the team or coaching staff wants our crowd sitting on their hands and being quiet. They all want the glory. They want to be bathed in the exultation. Your claim is a false teaching, at least in my opinion.
 
That's loyalty. There is nothing wrong with it. It is one of the best qualities of the Gamecocks fans. We don't jump off the bandwagon when the road is a little bumpy. We stick to our team whether in mountains or valleys.

Besides, the excitement we Gamecocks fans generate at WB, demonstrates what fans want. They want a winner, and the sentiment is expressed by the crowd. There is no question any fair minded person can see the difference in our fans reaction by how our crowds respond. Nobody in the administration or on the team or coaching staff wants our crowd sitting on their hands and being quiet. They all want the glory. They want to be bathed in the exultation. Your claim is a false teaching, at least in my opinion.

Loyalty is overrated. Obviously. If loyalty mattered, we'd have 10 national titles.

The higher-ups don't give a rip what the fans demeanor is like at the games as long as they paid to be there.
 
Charlie Brown is the very definition of a "lovable loser." Personally, I think he should have learned his lesson the 2nd time Lucy pulled the ball back. After that, he should have spread nasty, baseless rumors about her until she developed a deep psychosis.
That's a bit dark there, Jon.
 
The higher-ups don't give a rip what the fans demeanor is like at the games as long as they paid to be there.

Do you have any facts to support this assertion? I seem to recall numerous comments, including Muschamp's comments this week asking for fans to support the team, that directly rebut your claim that "higher ups" don't give a rip what fan's demeanor at games is like. Maybe you have something that supports your claim. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of a single example in thirty years that does though.
 
Loyalty is overrated. Obviously. If loyalty mattered, we'd have 10 national titles.

The higher-ups don't give a rip what the fans demeanor is like at the games as long as they paid to be there.
I've never once heard a clem fan abandon all hope or bad mouth their team and coach, and I'm from Easley. This idea of them "not accepting mediocrity" simply isn't true. They run their mouths and think they're the best even during 5-6 seasons.
Remember dabo equating a chick fil-a bowl win to a championship several years back? I would contend that delusions of grandeur actually lead to far more success than wallowing in a woe-is-me attitude.
Essentially whatever we say and think about our program is what recruits will believe. We could use a lot more positive delusion around here tbh.
 
As a guest here, I recognize I'm threading on thin ice to reply to this post.

FWIW, there's something to be said for a loyal fan base. You guys and Nebraska come to mind. I get it's more fun to win than to be loyal to a program that sometimes disappoints, but if you're the next HC for the Gamecocks, would you rather come to a program that requires a rebuild of fan loyalty, or to one that has some of the strongest support in the college football?

Disappointed fans' pressure can influence an Administration's decision to make a change, for sure, but it's a double-edged sword.

Old timers like me are accustomed to Bama always having fan support, even during the "Dark Ages." But, we darn sure raised a ruckus to the Administration during those bad times. IMO it contributed to the departure of Ray Perkins, Bill Curry, and Dennis Franchione, all of which deepened our Dark Ages. Heck, we even complained the last couple of years during Coach Bryant's tenure. I can only imagine what it will be like with the newer generation of Bama fans when Saban finally does retire. I'm afraid it won't be pretty.

All that to say, while I know how hard it can be (because I've been there to some degree), a loyal fan base is one of the few things that can elevate a program during trying times.
 
I am 78 years old and became a Gamecock fan as a young child because my Dad was a Carolina grad. I have experienced some bad losses and I equate the loss to UNC as one of the worst. Not sure when I will put it behind me. Regardless, I still believe Coach Muschamp will prevail. I do not understand the criticism of Ray Tanner. What has he failed to do as an AD?
 
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Ray has failed to make a good hire, even though I suppose Kingston could still get it together and work out. Ray hiring Holbrook is totally forgivable - anyone would've done that and nobody could've foreseen what happened. Going cheap on the next hire for our baseball program was highly questionable. We're one of the best jobs in baseball and he made a hire like we're Tennessee baseball.

Hiring Muschamp never made any sense. I don't think another P5 school in the country would have seriously considered hiring him just one year removed from driving Florida's program into the dirt. I honestly believe his agent was just trying to get him interviews to get his name back out there for the hope of a job in another couple of years, and instead we went ahead and hired him. And that would be bad enough, but not only have we hired him, we gave him an extension and raise until 2024 and a buyout among the highest in college football. Who the hell was Ray bidding against? Nobody else in the country wants this guy, and you're treating him like a hot commodity?

Either Ray is completely incapable of doing his job, or he is identifying with and putting his personal relationships with these coaches above the health and success of our athletic department. Either way, it means Ray has no business being our athletic director.
 
As a guest here, I recognize I'm threading on thin ice to reply to this post.

FWIW, there's something to be said for a loyal fan base. You guys and Nebraska come to mind. I get it's more fun to win than to be loyal to a program that sometimes disappoints, but if you're the next HC for the Gamecocks, would you rather come to a program that requires a rebuild of fan loyalty, or to one that has some of the strongest support in the college football?

Disappointed fans' pressure can influence an Administration's decision to make a change, for sure, but it's a double-edged sword.

Old timers like me are accustomed to Bama always having fan support, even during the "Dark Ages." But, we darn sure raised a ruckus to the Administration during those bad times. IMO it contributed to the departure of Ray Perkins, Bill Curry, and Dennis Franchione, all of which deepened our Dark Ages. Heck, we even complained the last couple of years during Coach Bryant's tenure. I can only imagine what it will be like with the newer generation of Bama fans when Saban finally does retire. I'm afraid it won't be pretty.

All that to say, while I know how hard it can be (because I've been there to some degree), a loyal fan base is one of the few things that can elevate a program during trying times.

I understand what you're saying, but if loyalty REALLY mattered, we'd have multiple national titles by now.
 
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I understand what you're saying, but if loyalty REALLY mattered, we'd have multiple national titles by now.

We are each entitled to our own opinions, but IMO, the situation would be even worse without fan loyalty to the school. That said, the minority screaming for Muschamp to be fired seem more like a baby throwing a temper tantrum than a rational adult response. The more we give into an overreaction such as is the nature of your ilk, the worse the program will be in the long run. Just my opinion.

We have the toughest schedule in the country, maybe A&M's is comparable, but no question the roster in FB is much stronger than four years ago. You have to give some credit to Boom for the upgrade and modernization of our recruiting practices.
 
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You don't think there's any rational, adult reason to want Muschamp fired?

In year 4 of his tenure:

Muschamp may have modernized and used all the right catch phrases when it comes to recruiting, but check the rankings - we're still right in the same range Spurrier had us in on an national level. If we're keeping Muschamp based solely on his alleged recruiting prowess, that's bad logic because it appears that's just the type of class Carolina pulls in.

Jake Bentley is a hard working guy who seems very intelligent, and I believe purely looking at physical tools, he has all the talent to be an excellent QB in this league. However, for whatever reason, the mental aspect has never been there for him. It seems like he panics, and tries to do too much, and it leads to turnovers and overthrows. Now, when your QB isn't getting it done, you either coach him up and fix it, or replace him. We did neither, and that is a failure on the part of our coaching staff. Why did Scarnecchia not see a single series in another game last year after he beat Missouri?

The way to build up recruiting and show progress is to win a game here and there that you probably shouldn't. The so called "signature win." People defending Muschamp have pointed out again and again that it took Spurrier several years of mediocre results to get us to those 11-2 seasons, and they're right. However, during those early years, Spurrier was pretty regularly defeating ranked opponents. We were knocking off ranked Florida, Tennessee, Georgia, and Clemson teams during those years. We came into big games ready to play. What would you say is our best big game performance under Muschamp? Beating the collapsing Tennessee team in his first year, or losing by 3 scores and giving up 56 points to Clemson last year? Those are really the only two options.

Muschamp is supposed to be a defensive master. He had incredible defenses during his failed tenure at Florida, so if nothing else, I think everyone expected an uptick on that side of the ball under his watch. So far, his defense is flat out bad. We gave up 450+ yards to a UNC team coming off a 2 win season with a true freshman quarterback making his very first start. And worse, we looked like our biggest issue was the most basic, fundamental thing you do on defense: tackling. Maybe that can be fixed in two weeks, but I suspect when Alabama rolls into town we are going to get our heads caved in, and if our defense looks like it did against UNC, it's going to be humiliating for a lot of guys on our "deepest, most talented team yet."

Every single year, we are told that the offense is going to get more aggressive and try to make more explosive plays. We are now in year four of hearing that same song and dance every single offseason after another disappointing season on the offensive side of the ball. Last year the offense improved quite a bit versus the Kurt Roper era, which was good. However, Muschamp still has to be held responsible for hiring Kurt Roper in the first place. That is a literal repeat of a mistake he made at Florida.

Secondly, did you watch the UNC game? We came out conservative, vanilla, and anything but explosive. The announcers said it ten million times: South Carolina looked like the team trying to protect its freshman QB, and that, along with our total incompetent tackling, got us another embarrassing loss in the Will Muschamp era.

How many more games are we going to build leads, like Florida last year and Texas A&M the year before, only to watch our team go into a shell and choke? Is that Spurrier's fault too?

I think there are plenty of rational, adult reasons to want Muschamp to be fired. It's not childish or irrational to take a critical view of your program. Blind loyalty is only a positive for the person or group on the receiving end of it, because it's a license to take advantage of devotees.

Maybe Muschamp will prove the world wrong, but I'll believe it when I see it and him saying all the right things in press conferences won't convince me when what I see on the field says this is the same man that failed at Florida.
 
Would you explain how fans being supportive and optimistic for the team that loses a game equates to a team winning in the future? I am having trouble seeing a connection between a team's on field performance and some vocal minority of fans voicing displeasure on social media.

I'm sorry for being dense, but it seems more more likely a riotous, critical, angry outcry by fans would more likely have the opposite effect on the team, maybe demoralizing it and injuring recruiting for the future. But maybe you can explain it so I will understand what you mean. Thank you for helping me understand.


I was born in Alabama and raised on Bear Bryant football. It is just a different mindset between the two programs. After Bryant retired, it did not take them long to move past Perkins in order to land Stallings. After Stallings left, they went through many head coaches that continued to lose important games. Once you start to accept losing in a program, then losing becomes the standard. They did not accept losing and they went out and hired a coach that was successful at LSU. This current coach went 6-6 in his first season and lost their bowl game. The next season, they finished the season undefeated but lost to Utah in the Sugar Bowl. As bad as Alabama was between Stallings and Saban, the fans never accepted losing. Even the one season in which they came into Auburn ranked #2 and lost, they demanded Curry be fired. i was at that game in 1989. The fans yelled across the field to each other for well over an hour before the game even started. It was just electric in the stands that day. Curry ended up leaving and going to Kentucky. For what other reason would we have allowed Georgia to outbid us for Kirby Smart? Instead, because in his wisdom as an AD, our guy goes out and finds the one coach that proved to the nation he could not win at Florida...the same school the won three national championships under different coaches. For those that would argue a Georgia grad would have no interest in coaching another program, I would offer the name "Pat Dye". Money is the key motivation for bringing a coach here...not where they graduated from.
 
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Would you explain how fans being supportive and optimistic for the team that loses a game equates to a team winning in the future?

I sure I can't explain it but, I sure would like to play poker with you. I'll even pay for your flight down here, your lodging and food and I'll fix you up with a honey bunch that will make you forget all about Mama. We can even use my cards.

images
 
I see our fan base has reverted back to the pre-Spurrier mentality of accepting loss instead of trying to achieve more.

I am 65 years old. I've seen this most of my adult life. But I don't accept it. And we won't win 10 games and challenge for an SEC title with Ray Tanner as AD and Will Muschamp as head coach. We've seen their best.

Structural changes need to be made that installs some accountability. Politics and doing favors has to recede if we are going to become a successful football program.

This latter part of this post is excellent. We all know this University has leadership issues but we keep allowing status quo.
 
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I see our fan base has reverted back to the pre-Spurrier mentality of accepting loss instead of trying to achieve more.

I am 65 years old. I've seen this most of my adult life. But I don't accept it. And we won't win 10 games and challenge for an SEC title with Ray Tanner as AD and Will Muschamp as head coach. We've seen their best.

Structural changes need to be made that installs some accountability. Politics and doing favors has to recede if we are going to become a successful football program.
OldWiseCock, Thank You Sir! For Thou has so Clearly and So Accurately Spoken There, That I PROUDLY CLAIM THAT THOU HATH SPOKEN FOR ME!!!

Thank You! Thank You!!
THANK YOU!!!
 
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