Frank Martin: we've "hit the reset button completely"
- Thread starter GarnetBeamer
- Start date
Wrong. Ray Tanner needs to hit the gone button. Don't let the AD off the hook on his responsibility to not let one of our two major men's programs get in this dumpster fire situation.
I would bet most of what rolls out of your mouth is as ignorant and irrelevant as that comment.
I've known it precisely since I was 12.
That was a long time ago. maybe the definition has changed since you last checked.
Pushing the reset button is far better than pushing the panic button.
Outside of the rebrand, agree with pretty much everything you've stated.
Personally just believe it's time for a change.
+ Do you ever believe we would attend games with the idea that a grown man is going to consistently hurl expletive insults at the top of his lungs from start to finish? There's nothing wrong with "tough love" and the throwback style is welcomed to a degree, but he's over the top, and way over the top.
+ The aforementioned attitude has certainly played into recruiting (in a big way) as well as internal issues and transfers.
+ As stated many times, he has kept us relatively competitive in the SEC. However, outside of the Final Four that's amounted to nothing.
+ And the elephant in the room is our style of play. It's largely beyond boring and mostly painful to watch. Yes, our intense, grind-it-out defense does cause issues for some teams and we do get some unexpected wins, but we also lose a good deal of out-of-conference games with this style which have cost us post season visits. If we're going to be mostly mediocre, let's make it at least entertaining. There are kids in junior high now who can hit a 35-footer with consistency and ease. We can't seem to land one (outside of maybe Lawson who was wildly inconsistent) because their they don't want to play for Frank and/or his style.
+ We could go backward with a change. That's very possible - but at least it's a change after 10 years. I'm not trying to flame and maybe this is a bad example - but why not go get someone like a Gregg Marshall? The guy can flat out coach (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregg_Marshall), his teams are entertaining, he's very well known and a great recruiter. And unlike trying to "get the best coach money can buy," we get a guy with a black eye and something to prove. There's always a risk, but chances are he wants to close out his career in style and good graces close to home. He could potentially be our Spurrier of College Basketball and we could get him for a fraction of what he would normally be worth. Auburn took a chance with Pearl. We should consider doing the same with Marshall. Our PC approach has gotten us absolutely nowhere.
The self-appointed arbiter of nothingness.
It's fine to ask follow-up questions, but have the common decency to at least response with some level of substance if someone is going to take the time and energy to acknowledge your queries.
You're right. I lack common decency. I presented a scenario that fit the parameters of the hypothetical. How could I do such a thing?
I'm not sure how that's relevant to you calling me indecent or my conversation with King Ward, but I'll be sure to do that.
So Martin’s verbal tirades on the sidelines are too much but you advocate going for Marshall who was fired from Witchita state despite tremendous success because of numerous documented cases of verbal and physical abuse against players?? How is that not rampant hypocrisy?
There were equally as many that came to his defense though. And it was during the heart of "wokeness."
Marshall likely had an inflated ego but chances are he would be on his best behavior if we gave him a chance at redemption.
Someone is going to, and they'll likely get a very good college basketball coach w/ a nice price tag.
When you invoked Furman, it became a non-responsive deflection designed to evade a straight answer to the scenario I proposed. But it's ok. Everyone saw it. I understand the difficult situation you were in. There is only one credible answer.
You asked if there was a division 1 team who would be considered solid with our resume. You refused to narrow the parameters, so I invoked Furman. I played by the rules of your hypothetical. Regardless of whether you agree or not, or want to accuse me of "deflection", my retort was factual. In other words, the opposite of specious.
Your retort was hypothetical because the question was hypothetical. Therefore the response was hypothetical and the opposite of factual.
RT may extend Martin's contract for no more than two years under those circumstances to allow the new AD to make his own choice. RT will not handcuff the next AD.
He wasn't allowed to do that this year. Legislature was making too much political hay out of the possibility of it.
Once you employed a non-derivative example in a weak attempt to sidestep the essential point, then speciousness was in play.
See, now you're using accounting terms... But yes Ward, your premise was Division 1. Unless you're implying that Furman is not division 1. You're more than welcome to refine your parameters, but as it stands, my example was especially derivative and no attempt to side step, but an attempt to expose the lack of nuanced consideration presented by your hypothetical.
A lot of blather to sidestep the plain fact that you didn't address a very simple question at all. It was a question answerable with a simple "yes" or "no". Why, you didn't even apply all the historical points that describe our nine-year saga to Furman. If you had applied all points of our exact history to them, what would you come up with? Solid or no?
Ok, i'll see what I can do.
In 9 years:
-70 SEC wins
-3 NBA players
-Final 4
-2x most wins in school history
So yes, I'd say for 150+ division 1 teams, that's pretty solid.
I was as disappointed this season as anyone. I need to see some things change regarding his sideline demeanor and offensive approach (i.e. Free throws), but overall his teams have been fun to watch, and they play extremely hard (this year notwithstanding).
As a caveat, I need to see a lot of improvement to remain on board with retaining him as our coach.
So you are saying both we and they, were we clones over the past nine years, would be considered presently solid - as in today - which is how the question was framed (go back and look). Is that your answer?
Unfortunately Frank’s tenure at USC has been like one of those hypotheticals you see on sports message boards: would you rather make the Final Four one time, but then never make it back to the tournament, or make the tournament every other year but never make it past the first round?
Obviously we don’t know what another coach would have done here in the same time period, but we have the former in the above hypothetical.
Obviously we don’t know what another coach would have done here in the same time period, but we have the former in the above hypothetical.
9 years
89 SEC losses, never once won the conference
1 NCAA appearance
3rd longest tenure, so the amount of wins is skewed.
only 3 seasons above .500 vs D1 schools
More transfers than graduates ( even before the portal took off)
Last year had more transfer outs than wins
89 SEC losses, never once won the conference
1 NCAA appearance
3rd longest tenure, so the amount of wins is skewed.
only 3 seasons above .500 vs D1 schools
More transfers than graduates ( even before the portal took off)
Last year had more transfer outs than wins
My problem is that I like Frank Martin as a person - as a man. I also feel badly that he had COVID twice last year which in my mind made firing him over last season's results the wrong thing to do. But I also don't know if anyone could do any better here than FM has done. However, I have a feeling that if we don't win at least 18 games this season we may find out.
This is the wrong way of thinking. IMO so many people over value Martin, based on a great run. There are plenty of coaches who can do better. The bar here is pretty low, and most of the time Martin has not reached it here.
If you look at his history, his act tends to run out and burn people/programs out. Kansas State cut bait early, we have held on a little too long.
Well Ward, there a lot of unknowns with this team. I haven’t seen them play, so all I can go on is the facts for the last 9 years. Presently solid? I barely know who’s on the team.
Ill say this: if I was another SEC school, I’m not exactly looking forward to playing a Frank Martin team.
