What I've learned from reading this board, it's no wonder they have looked so bad this year. Conventional wisdom tells us that you cannot win with a walk on. Gamecocks by 13.
Holy crap! Missery is starting a walk on TE.
- Thread starter Rock Hill Cock
- Start date
WHAT a walk on why that's an outrage ! Simply preposterous ! Gamecocks by 20. Since a walk on is not evaluated using stars what do they use little feet?
There are some exceptions to the rule......JJ Watt was a walk on, but lets not demean the star value. Clowney, Gilmore, Lattimore, Chubb, Fournette, and many others had and have star value because they are NFL caliber players. You can't evaluate work ethic, which those with less God given talent have to get by on. Hoke should have our best DE on this guy.
The OP was being sarcastic. Our second team leading receiver at TE is also a walkon.
Do teams really choose to start a walk on....no....it's usually a very bad sign that a walk on can move up the ladder above players you recruit or that you are so thin at a position that it comes into play. I am not a walk on fan per say simply because it's a poor ass way of building a team. The walk on is there because they need players for the scout team, not because they were players that have a good chance to start one day. Get real. If you have a walk on, on scholarship.....you missed on that scholarship offer somewhere in your 85 players that had them.....If a player leaves early or quits the team and you want to award a player a scholarship for the remainder of that year...fine. The new recruiting season needs that scholarship back and a great evaluated player needs to be ready to be signed. We have way too many walk on players contributing over the years. That's not a knock on the players themselves but on the staff for allowing that to happen through missed opportunities....
It's hard to evaluate Heart. As "Big George used to say, "it's whoever wants it the baddest"!!!
Stars are usually indicative of future potential and overall ability. Has nothing to do with character, work ethic etc., but having said that, I realize the only teams that win conference championships yet alone Natty's the past twenty years are loaded with highly rated players, i.e., lots of 4-5 star types. But take a 2 star kid like Dimarco, he is still playing FB in the NFL and making a good living doing so. He brought a ton to the USC team while he was here. There will always be young men that excell who were overlooked. You just cannot build an entire team on those types, they are few and far between. Great stories though when you land some of those types.
Offering a kid a scholarship as a prospect is totally different from a walk on getting playing time and starting. I feel we can afford a project here and there but if you have a walk on starting....you failed in your recruiting somewhere. That should not happen....
A
anon_n4c0cp5zhdxn7
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It seems most walk-ons get their shot due to unforeseen issues such as injuries or transfers. It's not always because of recruiting deficiencies, but some people obviously have an axe to grind.
The point was that even a kid like Dimarco who was under rated obviously, is just an example. Lots of walk ones were low rated 1-2 star types that never got a whiff from D1 schools so their route to D1 was not as easy or clear. But many of them work their way onto those rosters by walking on and giving it all they got. Dimarco would have landed at some small school likely had SC not recruited him, then he, like many before and after him, would have walked on at some D1 school believing they could make it. Sometimes those young men do.
JJ Watt was a scholarship player at Central Michigan before walking on the Wisconsin team. So it's not like JJ Watt was some kid off the street.
That's a long-a$$ simple way to say the guy who was a surprise didn't earn his way when the fact he's playing says he does.
It has nothing to do with recruiting or the lack thereof.
WALK-ON starting.
So what?
The point was that sometimes kids end up being signed by the Central Michigans of the world because no D1 programs offered them. But some how some way, those players believed they could play D1 like Watts, some transfer with a scholly offer, most transfer on their own as walk ons because they believe in themselves. Some are right.
As well, these are 18-22 year old kids. Some physically mature quicker. Some later. Not to mention, mental maturity.. I graduated HS at 5'11" and 190lbs. I continued to grow until I was about 21 and ended up 6'2" and 225lbs. With the added muscle came strength, speed and most important, confidence.. Not all these kids are ready to roll when they are right out of HS.
With that said, I would prefer not to have too many walk ons in the starting lineup. Lol. However, if they can ball, I don't care if they are walk on or scholarship.. Put me out there..
While I agree with "heart" and wanting it more than the other player, what that doesn't show is ability. If a coach offers a scholly, the coach is expecting the player to perform. When performance doesn't show, what does that say? Either the coach can not evaluate or the player has not developed the work ethic to get better. In either case, its not good for the team.
The same also bodes for those in the star recruiting circle.
Of course this could be said for car salesman as well.
Just one of them? They have a long way to go if they want to catch up to our walk-on program.
Always love the JJ Watt example....like, really???
One guy that was a "sort of" walk-on who blows up huge - ONE GUY - and he's like the poster child for support of walk-ons.
Always get a kick out of that.
Feeling good about Saturday - going to be a battle for sure - whoever wants it most will get it
One guy that was a "sort of" walk-on who blows up huge - ONE GUY - and he's like the poster child for support of walk-ons.
Always get a kick out of that.
Feeling good about Saturday - going to be a battle for sure - whoever wants it most will get it
The scholarships are not removed from a player because of injury.....so that is idiotic....the transfer of a player is still a miss in recruiting. You don't recruit players to transfer...again, idiotic. No axe to grind...it is what it is.....a big miss....
I wasn't talking about kids offered scholarships....they were vetted...I am talking about kids that walk on and move up to starters. I could see one every once in a blue moon....not as many as we have....again I am not talking about kids that the staff gives a scholarship to.
Sooooooo, he was a walk on, which is what I said. I never suggested he was a kid off the street.
DE Ezekiel "Ziggy" Ansah, Detroit Lions
Particulars: Attended BYU. Arrived from Ghana as a track athlete and never played football until 2010 as a Cougars sophomore. Was Detroit's first-round pick in the 2013 NFL Draft.
WR Antonio Brown, Pittsburgh Steelers
Particulars: Attended Central Michigan. A Miami native who played QB for a good Norland High program, Brown arrived at CMU after a year at North Carolina Tech prep school. He earned a scholarship one week into fall practice at CMU in 2007. Was a sixth-round pick by the Steelers in 2010.
K Stephen Gostkowski, New England Patriots
Particulars: Attended Memphis. As with numerous kickers in college football, Gostkowski was a walk-on. He earned a scholarship a week before the season opener in 2002, his freshman season. Was a fourth-round pick by the Patriots in 2006.
C Nick Hardwick, San Diego Chargers
Particulars: Attended Purdue. Did not play high school football (but was a state champion wrestler) and joined the Boilermakers as a walk-on defensive tackle in 2001 as a sophomore. He earned a scholarship at the conclusion of fall camp in 2002, by which time he had been moved to the offensive line. Was a third-round pick by the Chargers in the 2004 draft.
LB Clay Matthews, Green Bay Packers
Particulars: Attended USC. Despite coming from a football family with all kinds of Trojans ties, Matthews wasn't considered much of a prospect out of high school. He redshirted as a true freshman in 2004 and was a backup in 2005. He earned a scholarship during fall camp in 2006 but wasn't a starter until his senior season in 2008. Was a first-round pick by the Packers in 2009.
WR Jordy Nelson, Green Bay Packers
Particulars: Attended Kansas State. He was a quarterback and defensive back at a small Kansas high school, and walked on at K-State in 2003 as a safety. He redshirted that season, then didn't play a down in 2004. He moved to wide receiver in 2005 spring practice, earning a scholarship in the process, and his career took off. Was a second-round pick by the Packers in 2008.
TE Dennis Pitta, Baltimore Ravens
Particulars: Attended BYU. He began his career a walk-on wide receiver in 2003, then moved to tight end and earned a scholarship during 2004 spring practice. He spent 2005 and 2006 on a Mormon mission, then returned as a sophomore in 2007. Was a fourth-round pick by the Ravens in 2010.
CB Ike Taylor, Pittsburgh Steelers
Particulars: Attended Louisiana-Lafayette. He joined the Ragin' Cajuns as a junior walk-on in 2002, and quickly earned a scholarship. He was a tailback that season, then moved to corner as a senior in 2003. His athleticism led the Steelers to take him in the fourth round in 2003.
SS T.J. Ward, Cleveland Browns
Particulars: Attended Oregon. Ward suffered a severe knee injury early in his senior season at powerhouse Concord (Calif.) De La Salle, and because he never had been a starter, colleges backed off. He redshirted as a true freshman in 2005, then earned a scholarship as a redshirt freshman in 2006. Was a second-round pick by the Browns in 2010
If you had all 9 players on your team....it still would not be enough. You still have many, many players that were rated higher playing on NFL rosters. The 9 were spread out over several years....they were flukes of the process not a result of it. I can give you the list of 9 people who dropped out of high school and became millionaires later in life. I could give you the name of millions who dropped out and became nothing. Would you really want your kid or anyone to go with thse odds just because a few out of millions made it....get friggin real....
Damn bro..
I didn't see anywhere where he said the scholarships were removed due to injury, so saying what he said was idiotic was a bit venomous, don't you think?? All he said was most of these walk ons most likely get their shot because those scholarship players most likely got injured. That isn't a stretch and kind of backs what you said (they were still behind the scholarship guys and didn't move up until the injury)..
As well, transfers aren't necessarily recruiting busts. Not all leave because they weren't good enough to see the field for us.. Maybe the kid transfers because he is home sick or a has a sick parent? Maybe he made a bad decision in life (not football) and we encouraged him to transfer. Those examples aren't busts, as kids do stupid stuff and make poor decisions.. Coaches can't predict these kids future decisions no matter how much they look into their past..
So, to say his post was idiotic is, well, IMO idiotic.. Lol
He insinuated that I was "grinding an axe" so yea.....the players that get injured should never play into a walk on replacement period....I said one here and there....multiple over a couple of years....not. Yes ....transfers are recruiting busts....you signed them to fit and play...not to transfer....it's a bust or why would you sign them to start with.
You're entitled to your opinion about transfers even though you're wrong. Lol. Kidding by the way, as most on here don't have the ability to discern sarcasm..
IMO, I don't think it is fair to label a player a bust if a player decides to go back home to take care of a sick parent or gets home sick.. I don't think he is a bust if he can play, but makes poor decisions off the field and is advised to go somewhere else (Meat Summers, etc). I don't think he is a bust if he gets injured. If he can/could play, he is not a bust in my opinion.. Sometimes, it just doesn't work out. These Coaches don't have crystal balls so they do their best. I just don't think the above factors would necessarily constitute a bust, but if you do, that's your prerogative and I'm not going to attempt to change it..
As well, How do you know JohnnyPlaid was responding to your quote?? He didn't quote your post in his response.. He posted his thoughts and you assumed it was directed at you?? Then you hit him with the idiotic accusations.. You don't have to agree with him, but there is a way to express your opinion without the insults. Again, just my opinion.
That is a very rare case and I wouldn't even put that on the board as a failure...that is a circumstance that has nothing to do with football. You are going to have attrition and that is a part of the game. That should give you an opportunity to reward a player for the rest of that year.....That scholarship should be back on the table for the next recruiting cycle. I have no problem with a walk on per say....I have a problem with it becoming an every year thing with multiple players.....side thought...If the "axe to grind" statement was not meant for me then I apologize....if it was meant for me....then, my statement stands.
All good brother.. In your post at 2:51, you said "transfers are recruiting busts". I was just offering some examples as to why I felt a "transfer" doesn't necessarily mean "bust".
Todd Ellis alluded to us having one of those transfers for a sick parents on the radio yesterday, which is actually where I got it from.. We don't know what goes on in these kids lives outside of the program, or really inside it for that matter.. We assume based on what clowns on the internet say and what we see on the field on Saturday. We don't know about learning disabilities, kids from unfortunate circumstances, etc. It's easy for us as fans to sit on the couch and be black and white about it and say this and that though. When I was in school, I was good friends with several in the program, football and baseball. Played pick up basketball at Blatt with a lot of them. I got to see how hard they worked. How hard some of their lives were due to their background, etc. Fans don't get that part. Just like to turn on the tube and bitch. The Amercian way as it is.
With that said, I would agree that I don't want tons of walk on players in the starting lineup. That wouldn't be a recipe for success at the D1 level. I don't think any rational fan would say otherwise. However, I don't think one would argue that every team in the country has attrition and does this (give walk ons scholarships) due to it.
As well, as far as I knew, our scholarships were a year by year thing.. In fact, I recall some Tigers on here busting our balls about that in previous posts. So, just because a walk on long snapper gets one this year because of the "bust" you mention, doesn't necessarily mean he gets it the next year.
I think we changed it to a 4 year deal with our scholarships.....I may be wrong but I thought that was a part of it now....I would agree that kids that drop out because of grades may get a pass but still the taking of players that are borderline is a recipe for disaster. I wouldn't have a problem with a project player here and there...or a borderline academic player here and there but the meat of the program needs to be vetted as good as possible. If you look back on any class that any school signs and two years after that group signs most wouldn't even recognize it. I would rather have a class that has potential and coaches that can evaluate and coach them up, than a group that ranks high and peters out in numbers. It's a slippery slope but you can't miss so bad that you got a walk on playing......or multiple walk on....
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