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I would like to have a intelligent discussion about the horrible shooting that occurred today in Boulder, Co. No politics allowed.

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Because Chicago is evidence that more gun laws won't help. They have strict gun laws in IL.
They do have strict gun laws but they also have a number that have been overturned so despite all of the rhetoric about “toughest gun laws” that many on TV like to say that isn’t actually accurate. They do know though that about 50% of the guns they recover in Chicago come from out of state with about 16% coming from Indiana which has very loose gun laws. So you have proof of a couple things in this that 1) people intent on breaking the law are going to do it and 2) gun laws could restrict access to guns for criminals. The two things are not mutual exclusive and because one is true doesn’t also mean 2 is not.

In terms of protests over gun violence they happen all of the time in Chicago. There are other factors about why things happen there and are treated the way they are there but it isn’t because the people just accept it and don’t want to see something change.
 
Guns in the US are ubiquitous. Good luck putting that genie back in the bottle.

Mental health issues have EXPLODED since to the introduction of cell phones, especially smart phones.

Social media is certainly an issue, but WIFI, 5G and other tech-related radiation courses through our minds and bodies 24/7 and there has been little to no research studying the long-term implications on human health.

K-street lobbyist effortlessly push through the latest-and-greatest inventions and we happily assume they "do no harm" b/c we can't wait to have something shinier and faster.

The "gun problem" is 4D.
 
nope, they want to take care of your every NEED, Cradle to grave, and never relinquish to any one other than another liberal socialist democrat.. PERIOD!!
The point is the reason they want to outlaw guns is because they fear losing their control to citizens like the Tennessee veterans. Without their guns the vets would have been subjects.
The sad part is that so many are happy as subjects.
 
My wife is 105 pounds and has a poodle. What are her chances?

You need to upgrade your canine . Haha . Mine is a sweetheart but he would go toe to toe with a Grizzly bear if it came in my house in the middle of the night . Of course Coconut I’ve ran into plenty of 105 gals that I wouldn’t tangle with !! I see your point tho .
 
Thomas Jefferson suggested constantly changing up the constitution every generation, he is one of my favorite founding fathers.
Certainly our Founding Fathers (including Jefferson) don't support a regular just for the heck of it editing of the Constitution. There is a method for changing it and it is as it should be not something that can be done overnight and the 2nd amendment is unambiguous in its acknowledgement of a God given right to keep and bear guns and doesn't leave room for Joe nosy neighbor to say 'what do you need that for'??
 
You need to upgrade your canine . Haha . Mine is a sweetheart but he would go toe to toe with a Grizzly bear if it came in my house in the middle of the night . Of course Coconut I’ve ran into plenty of 105 gals that I wouldn’t tangle with !! I see your point tho .

That's right. Different strokes for different folks. If I'm at work at night, or gone for the weekend, I need to know that she's safe. She likes the AR15, and if that's what makes her the safest, then that's what she's going to have.
 
How many rounds a minute can you fire with an AR-15 type weapon without modification and with a 30-round clip? Thirty? Fifteen? As many times as you can squeeze a trigger? I ask because I don't exactly know, since I don't have an AR-15 and don't want one.

Nomenclature aside, how many times should you be able to fire a weapon in order to consider it capable of conducting an assault -- particularly on people who aren't expecting it and equipped to shoot back?

I own weapons, grew up hunting though I don't do it anymore. I spent time in the Army and fired everything from a LAW to an AT4 to a .50 cal to an M60 to a Claymore to a tactical nuclear missile over a six year period, with stuff in between. I say that to note while I'm not an expert on weaponry, I'm not unfamiliar with them.

Truth is, I don't think a ban will work, but I do think there's something seriously wrong with a society where some sick whackjob can go in and shoot up an kids in an elementary school and nine years later people are having the same arguments over what's what and no closer to finding a solution because extremists on both sides start stirring the pot.
Freedom isn’t free and one of the costs is there will always be people who abuse that privilege
 
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Yes. That's it. I think in the future, a discussion like this should not be allowed on Gamecock Central. There are plenty of sites and watering holes where we can discuss gun control - Mini-14 vs AR-15 - My car has more HP than yours and mine is bigger than yours.

With all due respect, you're not making much sense. There is literally no difference between a Mini 14 and an AR 15 other than the physical look of the gun.

You can get a Mini 14 chambered in the same caliber as an AR 15, and you can buy 30 round magazines for that Mini. You can buy one chambered in a heavier caliber if you'd like.

You lose credibility quickly when you don't even realize what kind of gun you supposedly own. It can shoot the same caliber round as an AR, it can shoot the same rate of fire as an AR, and it can have the same magazine capacity as an AR.

Once you get over the shock of realizing your Mini has the "same HP" as an AR, send me a PM when you want to wash you hands of that evil piece of weaponry and give it away.
 
That's right. Different strokes for different folks. If I'm at work at night, or gone for the weekend, I need to know that she's safe. She likes the AR15, and if that's what makes her the safest, then that's what she's going to have.

Nah I get that . My biggest concern is having weapons in the house with a teenager who has had 3 friends off themselves in the last few years . That’s the only reason I got rid of all mine . If my wife is a home alone and someone breaks in they better bring an anti aircraft gun to get past my “ 4 legged home security system”.
 
Certainly our Founding Fathers (including Jefferson) don't support a regular just for the heck of it editing of the Constitution. There is a method for changing it and it is as it should be not something that can be done overnight and the 2nd amendment is unambiguous in its acknowledgement of a God given right to keep and bear guns and doesn't leave room for Joe nosy neighbor to say 'what do you need that for'??

Yeah, it funny how the same folks that can find the absolute right to abortion any time under any circumstance in the Constitution without ANYTHING even closely resembling a reference to it existing in the Constitution, yet somehow think that "shall not be infringed" isn't clear and is up for interpretation. lol.
 
I guess it's same that you assumed I voted for Obama...which I didn't.

"You believe Obama, who attacked Clinton and Edwards in the 2008 primaries because they supported an individual mandate? Ha! Perhaps those Republicans voted against it because it was unconstitutional."

That's what I said to you. Where does that even imply I think you voted for Obama? I asked you a question about believing Obama re: Republicans really liking Obamacare, when he himself attacked his opponents for supporting what became a key element of that bill.
 
"You believe Obama, who attacked Clinton and Edwards in the 2008 primaries because they supported an individual mandate? Ha! Perhaps those Republicans voted against it because it was unconstitutional."

That's what I said to you. Where does that even imply I think you voted for Obama? I asked you a question about believing Obama re: Republicans really liking Obamacare, when he himself attacked his opponents for supporting what became a key element of that bill.
I said some republicans...not all. The majority of them voted against it, not because it was unconstitutional (The courts decided it was not) but because their high dollar constituents were against it. I want to say there was a handful which to me means 10-12. I'm actually inclined not to believe most of what politicians say, although I'm thinking Biden doesn't have anything to hide with his politically agenda mainly because he will undoubtedly by a 1 term president because of his age.
 
Yeah, it funny how the same folks that can find the absolute right to abortion any time under any circumstance in the Constitution without ANYTHING even closely resembling a reference to it existing in the Constitution, yet somehow think that "shall not be infringed" isn't clear and is up for interpretation. lol.
What's ironic about the abortion debate is that the same people who disapprove of the Government handing down gun laws have no problem with the Government dictated when a women can and cannot have an abortion.
 
What's ironic about the abortion debate is that the same people who disapprove of the Government handing down gun laws have no problem with the Government dictated when a women can and cannot have an abortion.
One of these two things is guaranteed. I
 
With all due respect, you're not making much sense. There is literally no difference between a Mini 14 and an AR 15 other than the physical look of the gun.

You can get a Mini 14 chambered in the same caliber as an AR 15, and you can buy 30 round magazines for that Mini. You can buy one chambered in a heavier caliber if you'd like.

You lose credibility quickly when you don't even realize what kind of gun you supposedly own. It can shoot the same caliber round as an AR, it can shoot the same rate of fire as an AR, and it can have the same magazine capacity as an AR.

Once you get over the shock of realizing your Mini has the "same HP" as an AR, send me a PM when you want to wash you hands of that evil piece of weaponry and give it away.
I bought that weapon for three reasons. I wanted a piece for target shooting, It reminded me of the weapon the USMC let me play with when I served, and thirdly an expert in firearms suggested it. I have known .223 ammo packs a punch since I have also fired an M-16 (5.56mm - .223 in) Yes you can buy larger magazines and I used to own some when I did rapid-fire shooting. Hell, you can tape two magazines together for that matter. I purchased the weapon before most of the mass shootings and before the Mini-14 was used in some horrendous shootouts with the police. The Mini looks like a rifle and the AR-15 looks like the poster child for assault rifles. Both can be converted but I have heard the AR-15 is easier to convert. If you would like to PM I will send you a picture of the Mini-14, the mag I currently own, and a copy of my honorable discharge for the Corp. Maybe I did not say things exactly right, but this is the second time I have had someone question either my military service or my honesty. So for you, I have a couple of comments: Semper Fi & Go Cocks. Let's end the discussion
 
“You can’t legislate morality” used to be the slogan that the left used constantly. The left also has no basis for defining morality anyway. The left will lie, cheat, and steal to move toward a global Marxist state, it’s in the playbook. So the whole gun debate is a steppingstone to get everyone into a Hegelian compromise cycle. Don’t give an inch. There are plenty of Marxist countries these people can move to if they really care so much about gun control.
 
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You're rifle is the same as an AR. It's a semiauto and there's a military variant of it. Your choice of magazine is the only difference and not really pertinent. That doesn't somehow put you above AR owners.
Tell you what, I will give up my Mini-14 when all you AR-15 owners give up your weapons. When I bought my Mini-14 all those years ago, there weren't the mass shootings we now experience several times a year. We can debate weapons till hell freezes over. Let's not forget that no guns were involved in 911 and at the Boston Marathon. Can we move the subject to something that can be done in this country to at least cut down on the human carnage and tragedy? I'm open to suggestions but I still don't think this is the forum.
 
And there it is. On page 20 this finally turned into a political shit show after a lot of (mostly respectful) back and forth. I think I'm done here now. Thanks for playing, those who actually engaged in some educated and stimulating conversation.
Did you forget women's indoor track and equestrian? Glad to get away from the "non-political" debate
 
Glamour? What “glamour? There is NO “glamour” in war, ANY war. There’s no glory in it either. This is not a movie; it’s not a video game. It’s real. Picture this: you are hot, dirty, tired, and sleep deprived; so is every man with you. You’ve been on patrol in the bush for over a week. The terrain is rough, difficult. In some places you can’t see more than 10 feet. There are trails, but the enemy is watching those and they’re probably booby trapped, so you stick to the roughest terrain you can get through. You head is on a swivel, all your senses are alert for any sound or movement that is out of place. Your web gear cuts into your shoulders, sweat is dripping into your eyes. Scared yet? You should be...it’s quiet...too quiet.. there’s movement you caught out the corner of your eye, and then...

Your world explodes. To your right, there’s a sudden burst of automatic weapons fire! Right in front of you an enemy pops out of the bush, then a second. Your unit and his just met, neither expecting it. He starts to raise his weapon; you fire a split second before he does; his round goes just over your head as he falls. You dive to the side and hit the dirt...where’s the second one? Your guys open up; second enemy is down. More muzzle flashes to your front, how many are there? You hear bullets hitting the brush and trees all around you; the ones that come close make a buzzing sound like a wasp whizzing past your head. Where are your guys? You can see the guy to your left, and the guy to your right; you can hear the others firing...you hear a grenade explode, and the machine gun to your right stops firing. You crawl to a better firing position, still firing at the muzzle flashes to your front. Occasionally you hear the soft thump and a scream as a shot hits another bad guy...there’s a scream to your left, one of your guys is down...you hear someone yell “Medic!”. You notice another one of your guys down, thrashing around, screaming in pain...and then the fire from the other sides stops...it’s over, just like that. You regroup, two walking wounded, but none of you died today. You carefully walk over to the enemy position. Your mouth is dry; you smell and taste burnt gunpowder (you’ll never forget that, ever). You count six enemy KIA scattered around; one's still moving, so you finish him with a round to the head...can’t take a chance on him playing possum, and rolling over with a pistol, knife or grenade. The rest of them bugged out...you see a couple of blood trails, where they dragged off their wounded. You can smell blood; did you know it has a smell? It does, and you won’t forget that either. You search the bodies for personal effects and anything intel might be able to use...

You call in for a dust-off, you have 5 clicks to the extraction point; good, you’ve got plenty of daylight to get there. It’s only then that you notice you feel weak, and you’re shaking; you can’t stop shaking...you fall down on your knees and puke from all the adrenaline running through your body; now you have time to feel the fear...today was a good day, nobody died, on your side...

Now, for all you armchair generals and Rambo wannabes, you have just experienced a “low-intensity firefight”. You weren’t fighting for freedom, or flag, God, country, motherhood and apple pie, or medals or glory, or any of that bullsh*t. You were fighting for you and your guys to just survive another day; and you sure as hell don’t feel like some hero, you feel like warmed-over dogsh*t... the good news is you’ll live to see another sunrise; the bad news is, that in a couple of days or a week, you get to go back out and do it all again... I left out the really gory stuff; you really don’t need to know that; and this battle only lasted maybe two minutes; it can be worse...a LOT worse. When the war is done, you get an added bonus; the memories of what you’ve seen, heard, smelled, felt and had to do, and a lot of guilt and unanswered questions about why you’re still alive and others aren’t, are burned into you soul and your brain, and they will forever be a part of you; a part you’ll wish to God you could forget, but never will, for the rest of your life...so if you go into combat, you better be damn sure that you’re fighting for something worth dying for...and worth living with it, if you survive...
Take another look at my post to which you responded. I was advising another poster of exactly.what you just said, using the Civil War as an example of an Ill advised insurgency for the very reasons you just advised.
 
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Tell you what, I will give up my Mini-14 when all you AR-15 owners give up your weapons. When I bought my Mini-14 all those years ago, there weren't the mass shootings we now experience several times a year. We can debate weapons till hell freezes over. Let's not forget that no guns were involved in 911 and at the Boston Marathon. Can we move the subject to something that can be done in this country to at least cut down on the human carnage and tragedy? I'm open to suggestions but I still don't think this is the forum.
Give yours up if you like. But it seemed to me the point of your original post was that AR-15s were somehow worse than your rifle. Neither is bad or good. But they're very similar. Sure we can do something. Whatever that something is, or whether it will make any difference is the topic of debate. Murder victims in 2017 from rifles was 364. Handguns accounted 6,368. Rifles are behind blunt objects, hands-fists-feet and weapons other than guns/knives. 3,709 people drowned in swimming pools in 2017. That's more than 10X by rifles. Scary rifles are not the epidemic everyone pretends they are. They just get all the media hype. You'll say "If it saves one life..." Well, smoking related illnesses kill 480,000 annually. If we want to save lives, we should focus our efforts where we can make a bigger difference.
 
What's ironic about the abortion debate is that the same people who disapprove of the Government handing down gun laws have no problem with the Government dictated when a women can and cannot have an abortion.

Nothing ironic about it at all. It's pretty simple. Guns rights are specifically listed in the Constitution, and it's very clear. Not so much with abortion. Very few guns ever kill a human. Every abortion does.
 
How many rounds a minute can you fire with an AR-15 type weapon without modification and with a 30-round clip? Thirty? Fifteen? As many times as you can squeeze a trigger? I ask because I don't exactly know, since I don't have an AR-15 and don't want one.

Nomenclature aside, how many times should you be able to fire a weapon in order to consider it capable of conducting an assault -- particularly on people who aren't expecting it and equipped to shoot back?

I own weapons, grew up hunting though I don't do it anymore. I spent time in the Army and fired everything from a LAW to an AT4 to a .50 cal to an M60 to a Claymore to a tactical nuclear missile over a six year period, with stuff in between. I say that to note while I'm not an expert on weaponry, I'm not unfamiliar with them.

Truth is, I don't think a ban will work, but I do think there's something seriously wrong with a society where some sick whackjob can go in and shoot up an kids in an elementary school and nine years later people are having the same arguments over what's what and no closer to finding a solution because extremists on both sides start stirring the pot.
How about.you use.your brain for something other than a hatrack. Many of.those weapons.can and have been used for purposes other than war, in fact a broadax has been used in war, but broadaxes are not being used in mass killings today. AR-15s are. If you're incapable of making such a distinction, no sane person is.going to waste their valuable time trying to convince you otherwise. So keep on trying to creating drama where none exists and, in the highly unlikely event that you do have your firearm taken away by a "tyrannical government" ( more fiction created by those in need of more drama in their lives), you'll have no one but yourself to blame due to using fiction to debate your point.
 
Give yours up if you like. But it seemed to me the point of your original post was that AR-15s were somehow worse than your rifle. Neither is bad or good. But they're very similar. Sure we can do something. Whatever that something is, or whether it will make any difference is the topic of debate. Murder victims in 2017 from rifles was 364. Handguns accounted 6,368. Rifles are behind blunt objects, hands-fists-feet and weapons other than guns/knives. 3,709 people drowned in swimming pools in 2017. That's more than 10X by rifles. Scary rifles are not the epidemic everyone pretends they are. They just get all the media hype. You'll say "If it saves one life..." Well, smoking related illnesses kill 480,000 annually. If we want to save lives, we should focus our efforts where we can make a bigger difference.
How many people do you know who have been killed by a mass smoker?
 
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Give yours up if you like. But it seemed to me the point of your original post was that AR-15s were somehow worse than your rifle. Neither is bad or good. But they're very similar. Sure we can do something. Whatever that something is, or whether it will make any difference is the topic of debate. Murder victims in 2017 from rifles was 364. Handguns accounted 6,368. Rifles are behind blunt objects, hands-fists-feet and weapons other than guns/knives. 3,709 people drowned in swimming pools in 2017. That's more than 10X by rifles. Scary rifles are not the epidemic everyone pretends they are. They just get all the media hype. You'll say "If it saves one life..." Well, smoking related illnesses kill 480,000 annually. If we want to save lives, we should focus our efforts where we can make a bigger difference.
Not a very good analogy...people who die from smoking is on them. They know the perils of smoking and could quit which is in their control. I'm assuming half the people who drowned couldn't swim...easy fix...learn how to swim or don't go near water. The 10 people who died yesterday had no control over that...We have a gun problem in this country and it is never going away. Just got to learn how to control it which is the hard part.
 
Not a very good analogy...people who die from smoking is on them. They know the perils of smoking and could quit which is in their control. I'm assuming half the people who drowned couldn't swim...easy fix...learn how to swim or don't go near water. The 10 people who died yesterday had no control over that...We have a gun problem in this country and it is never going away. Just got to learn how to control it which is the hard part.
No we don’t have a gun problem we have a mental health problem. A gun is just an object if you just lay it on the ground it’s not going to kill anyone. Someone has to pull the trigger. Take guns from those that have mental issues and are pursuing a mass killing and they will just go to Home Depot and build a pipe bomb.
 
Not a very good analogy...people who die from smoking is on them. They know the perils of smoking and could quit which is in their control. I'm assuming half the people who drowned couldn't swim...easy fix...learn how to swim or don't go near water. The 10 people who died yesterday had no control over that...We have a gun problem in this country and it is never going away. Just got to learn how to control it which is the hard part.
Guns save more lives than they take, and it's not even close. We don't have a gun problem, we have a mental health problem. And you can point fingers at lifestyle, culture, diet, media... It's not a gun problem. If people live happy and healthy lives, they don't want to hurt anyone. Removing guns isn't making anyone happier or healthier.
 
Nothing ironic about it at all. It's pretty simple. Guns rights are specifically listed in the Constitution, and it's very clear. Not so much with abortion. Very few guns ever kill a human. Every abortion does.
Actually the word gun is never mentioned...just your right to bear arms. But then you missed my point of the post
 
Guns save more lives than they take, and it's not even close. We don't have a gun problem, we have a mental health problem. And you can point fingers at lifestyle, culture, diet, media... It's not a gun problem. If people live happy and healthy lives, they don't want to hurt anyone. Removing guns isn't making anyone happier or healthier.
I somewhat agree with that. We do have a mental health problem...and these people are easily obtaining fire arms. Hence the gun problem. If you are a law abiding citizen what does it matter what laws they put in place. No one has ever said they will take everyone guns away...just trying to get them out of the hands of people who shouldn't own one.
 
Not a very good analogy...people who die from smoking is on them. They know the perils of smoking and could quit which is in their control. I'm assuming half the people who drowned couldn't swim...easy fix...learn how to swim or don't go near water. The 10 people who died yesterday had no control over that...We have a gun problem in this country and it is never going away. Just got to learn how to control it which is the hard part.
I showed in those links that we don't have a scary rifle problem. So the answer is to outlaw handguns, knives, hands, feet, fists and blunt objects? So where does that leave us? I mean, you could take every black rifle off the street and +/- the same number of people would get killed. Your solution is no solution.
 
I somewhat agree with that. We do have a mental health problem...and these people are easily obtaining fire arms. Hence the gun problem. If you are a law abiding citizen what does it matter what laws they put in place. No one has ever said they will take everyone guns away...just trying to get them out of the hands of people who shouldn't own one.
That's right, but what means are they going to use to infringe the rights of all to just to prevent the few.
 
How many people do you know who have been killed by a mass smoker?
If you clicked the link you'd he seen how many the CDC estimates killed by secondhand smoke. Its way more than rifles. Cute reply though.
 
No we don’t have a gun problem we have a mental health problem. A gun is just an object if you just lay it on the ground it’s not going to kill anyone. Someone has to pull the trigger. Take guns from those that have mental issues and are pursuing a mass killing and they will just go to Home Depot and build a pipe bomb.
But if we don't try to fix the problem then we are screwed. Just make it harder for these p
That's right, but what means are they going to use to infringe the rights of all to just to prevent the few.
That's the million dollar question...I'm not smart enough to answer that question. Unfortunately we have become numb to all the mass killings by mentally disturbed people
 
I showed in those links that we don't have a scary rifle problem. So the answer is to outlaw handguns, knives, hands, feet, fists and blunt objects? So where does that leave us? I mean, you could take every black rifle off the street and +/- the same number of people would get killed. Your solution is no solution.
No one said outlaw guns...just make it harder for crazy ass people to acquire them.
 
That's the million dollar question...I'm not smart enough to answer that question. Unfortunately we have become numb to all the mass killings by mentally disturbed people

That's right, and another thing. They HAVE said they want to take our guns. You had Biden lobbying for a gun ban and Beto O'Rourke saying "Hell Yes we will take your AR 15's". So, yes, they do say that, I have a big problem with that. That's infringement on the rights of 99.9999 percent of the population because a few people shouldn't have a gun. That is a large overreach of government in my opinion.
 
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