I would like to have a intelligent discussion about the horrible shooting that occurred today in Boulder, Co. No politics allowed.

[The Gadfly]

True...IMO the gun laws need to be overhauled. Owning a gun is a privilege not a right...there is more checks for getting a DL then owning a gun. I'm so confused why people are so against better background checks. Just sad that shootings like this just doesn't effect some of these law makers.

The 2nd Amendment is NOT a “privilege”. It is a Constitutional Right. "The RIGHT of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”. For anyone unhappy with that, there is the option of Amending the Constitution, which you can do, if and when you have enough public support to do so. The fact that as of now, there is not enough support to do that, does NOT mean it’s ok to shred the Constitution, or try to get around it, because it’s easier.

As for this situation, we don’t know (other than a name) who this guy is, or what his motive was, or whether he could legally possess the weapon he used under existing law. This is what investigations are for.

 

[WingchunCock]

What is "Shall not infringe?"

Part of the Second Amendment

 

[uscwatson21]

That’s the thing...his possessions are not being used to murder innocent people. 99.999 something percent of legal gun owners killed no one yesterday or forever for that matter.

you sound like you want all gun owners to pay a price because of a minute few. That’s not how USA works...

none of my guns have ever killed anyone and would only do so in defense of myself or others. Just because I have them shouldn’t scare you.

Then why are you afraid of registering them?

I want to hold the people responsible who do allow their weapons to get in the hands of people who commit crimes. That shouldn’t be controversial.

 

[paladin181]

Part of the Second Amendment

"...shall not be infringed." That is the wording directly. Uf not that, then it is not a quote.

 

[ghostofpepsicock]

Then why are you afraid of registering them?

I want to hold the people responsible who do allow their weapons to get in the hands of people who commit crimes. That shouldn’t be controversial.

My guns that I purchased and I had background checks performed had the serial numbers on the paperwork that the government kept and has access to.

Call it what you want but guns are “registered” to you when you buy them and complete background checks during the process.

 

[paladin181]

Then why are you afraid of registering them?

I want to hold the people responsible who do allow their weapons to get in the hands of people who commit crimes. That shouldn’t be controversial.

Because of the 4th amendment. Would you allow the government to come into your home and catalogue every knife and screwdriver and anything else they like because it could potentially harm someone? Every possession you have and everything you own. You are saying that the 4th amendment has no standing if you think people need to register their possessions because they could be harmful. Sorry. Whether I own a weapon or not is none of anyone's business but mine unless I make it someone else's business.

 

[WingchunCock]

Then why are you afraid of registering them?

I want to hold the people responsible who do allow their weapons to get in the hands of people who commit crimes. That shouldn’t be controversial.

It’s simple really. Gun owners are the only group held responsible for an individual’s actions. When a Muslim kills people we are told to judge the individual and not the group. When someone kills with a gun, the entire group of lawful gun owners gets condemned instead of the individual.

 

[uscwatson21]

Because of the 4th amendment. Would you allow the government to come into your home and catalogue every knife and screwdriver and anything else they like because it could potentially harm someone? Every possession you have and everything you own. You are saying that the 4th amendment has no standing if you think people need to register their possessions because they could be harmful. Sorry. Whether I own a weapon or not is none of anyone's business but mine unless I make it someone else's business.

lol at arguing a gun registry would be a violation of the 4th amendment.

the epitome of a bad faith argument.

 

[uscwatson21]

My guns that I purchased and I had background checks performed had the serial numbers on the paperwork that the government kept and has access to.

Call it what you want but guns are “registered” to you when you buy them and complete background checks during the process.

The current law explicitly forbids the ATF from having a registry and keeping that information. So no there isn’t a registry.

 

[ghostofpepsicock]

lol at arguing a gun registry would be a violation of the 4th amendment.

the epitome of a bad faith argument.

The criminal is to blame here and always is. Law abiding gun owners live day-in and day-out not committing crimes. An idiot intent on doing harm will always find a way. Blame the perpetrator not the law abider.

 

[Dizzy01]

Because of the 4th amendment. Would you allow the government to come into your home and catalogue every knife and screwdriver and anything else they like because it could potentially harm someone? Every possession you have and everything you own. You are saying that the 4th amendment has no standing if you think people need to register their possessions because they could be harmful. Sorry. Whether I own a weapon or not is none of anyone's business but mine unless I make it someone else's business.

And yet the second amendment states:

“A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

So why wouldn’t a registry be part of “well-regulated”?

I get that people want to ignore the first part of the second amendment because it’s a bit cloudy for the goal of everyone gets a gun but there is a reason more than the last 14 words are there.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

Then why are you afraid of registering them?

I want to hold the people responsible who do allow their weapons to get in the hands of people who commit crimes. That shouldn’t be controversial.

Because of crap like this.

N.Y. newspaper's map of local gun owners: A cheat sheet for burglars? - CSMonitor.com

 

[uscwatson21]

The criminal is to blame here and always is. Law abiding gun owners live day-in and day-out not committing crimes. An idiot intent on doing harm will always find a way. Blame the perpetrator not the law abider.

lol that’s exactly what I’m arguing. But you guys are trying to hide the criminal so we don’t know who actually broke the law.

 

[ghostofpepsicock]

The current law explicitly forbids the ATF from having a registry and keeping that information. So no there isn’t a registry.

Say what you want but if a gun I bought at a store ends up in a crime, I can guarantee SLED will be at my door because that serial number was originally tied to me, so the government has records, the rest is semantics...and if they come to my house looking for a gun I sold, I have a Bill of Sale to hand them so I am covered either way.

 

[duckcock2.0.0]

Then why are you afraid of registering them?

Get yourself a psychic and ask the scores of dead jews that were disarmed due to the Weimar gun registry.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

lol that’s exactly what I’m arguing. But you guys are trying to hide the criminal so we don’t know who actually broke the law.

Why should I have to report the execution of my 2nd amendment rights to anyone?

Let's have a registry of women that execute their right to have an abortion.

 

[ghostofpepsicock]

lol that’s exactly what I’m arguing. But you guys are trying to hide the criminal so we don’t know who actually broke the law.

are you on drugs? we know who broke the law by who is arrested and found guilty. I can promise you that gun owners want no part in hiding a criminal for paying the deserved price for the crime.

 

[WingchunCock]

"...shall not be infringed." That is the wording directly. Uf not that, then it is not a quote.

I quoted it exactly in a previous post. Thanks for stepping up as the grammar police...

 

[uscwatson21]

Get yourself a psychic and ask the scores of dead jews that were disarmed due to the Weimar gun registry.

I always wonder if you guys really think you’re making a good point here? Do you really think you could defend yourself against the government if they wanted to kill you?

 

[lilburncock]

Being fully automatic has nothing to do with the description.

Not as long a words don't have actual meanings.

 

[WingchunCock]

And yet the second amendment states:

“A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

So why wouldn’t a registry be part of “well-regulated”?

I get that people want to ignore the first part of the second amendment because it’s a bit cloudy for the goal of everyone gets a gun but there is a reason more than the last 14 words are there.

Because at the time it was written “well regulated” meant well trained, not registered

 

[duckcock2.0.0]

I always wonder if you guys really think you’re making a good point here? Do you really think you could defend yourself against the government if they wanted to kill you?

Millions of us could cause great damage. I won't be a cringing subject, flinching at the whims and moves of big daddy government.

 

[uscwatson21]

are you on drugs? we know who broke the law by who is arrested and found guilty. I can promise you that gun owners want no part in hiding a criminal for paying the deserved price for the crime.

so we always know who and how they got the weapons?

 

[uscwatson21]

Millions of us could cause great damage. I won't be a cringing subject, flinching at the whims and moves of big daddy government.

Ok tough guy 🤣

 

[feeble2001]

What a “feeble” attempt to hijack the thread...pun intended

 

[Silver_Coconut]

If you refuse to accept reasonable gun control measures it’s only going to hurt your position in the long run.

And if you demand taking my rights, you’re only hurting your position in the long run.

 

[duckcock2.0.0]

Ok tough guy 🤣

Not sure about tough, but I'm not an effete coward that trembles at the thought of personal liberty or the willingness to protect it.

 

[bflogger28]

it is my business when your possessions are used to murder innocent people.

why?? are you the Police?? a detective??

 

[duckcock2.0.0]

why?? are you the Police?? a detective??

He's just an armchair despot.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

I always wonder if you guys really think you’re making a good point here? Do you really think you could defend yourself against the government if they wanted to kill you?

That's an argument that supports giving individuals the right to more firepower, not less.

 

[uscwatson21]

Not sure about tough, but I'm not an effete coward that trembles at the thought of personal liberty or the willingness to protect it.

So you’re willing to break the law and commit gun violence? Probably, an indication you’re not actually a responsible gun owner.

 

[Who Cares_Who Cares]

Part of me would love to see them try to ban guns because of how spectacularly ineffective it would be and because of how many libertarians it would create.

 

[duckcock2.0.0]

So you’re willing to break the law and commit gun violence? Probably, an indication you’re not actually a responsible gun owner.

That doesn't even make sense, because nothing I've said indicates any of that.

 

[lilburncock]

I support The 2nd amendment, I own and shoot 2 hand guns, I have a CWP. But I have never understood the need for ownership of AR 15’s. I don’t know if it is a good hunting weapon as I don’t hunt. So, owners of AR’S why?

Your definition of "need" has no bearing or influence on my right to own an AR15 or other rifle.
If you don't want one that's perfectly fine but it has nothing to do with my right to own one.

Just an FYI but a semi-automatic 30.06 is much deadlier than an AR.

 

[Who Cares_Who Cares]

That doesn't even make sense, because nothing I've said indicates any of that.

Self defense = violence, in the land of the insane dictator

 

[uscwatson21]

That doesn't even make sense, because nothing I've said indicates any of that.

oh so now you’re back tracking. Turns out you are the coward who would gladly hand over his weapons when the government knocks on his door to confiscate them.

 

[ghostofpepsicock]

so we always know who and how they got the weapons?

A person could go and pass a background check and get a gun...this same person could then decide to go out and use said gun illegally and kill many...do you propose no one should have a gun because some idiot could legally buy one and do harm? What level of “safety” are you looking for? 100% guarantee that you are always safe? With freedom (of all kinds) comes responsibility.

What freedoms are you willing to give up in exchange for a 100% safety guarantee?

do you feel vehicles should be banned because some drunk drive? Or only have restaurants that serve healthy food to eliminate obesity and heart failure? Seriously how bad do you want the government to be responsible for you? For me it is 0%

 

[ToddFlanders]

And yet the second amendment states:

“A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

So why wouldn’t a registry be part of “well-regulated”?

I get that people want to ignore the first part of the second amendment because it’s a bit cloudy for the goal of everyone gets a gun but there is a reason more than the last 14 words are there.

The first part of the second amendment is conveniently left out (pretty much always) - especially because the first part directly states that regulations are a condition precedent to the right itself.

The constitution isn’t like the Bible, you can’t just cherry pick the portion of statements that support your position. They chose the words of all these rights very carefully - if they meant everyone can have a gun if they want one, they would have stated that.

 

[WingchunCock]

So you’re willing to break the law and commit gun violence? Probably, an indication you’re not actually a responsible gun owner.

When did defending yourself become a violation of the law?

 

[uscwatson21]

A person could go and pass a background check and get a gun...this same person could then decide to go out and use said gun illegally and kill many...do you propose no one should have a gun because some idiot could legally buy one and do harm? What level of “safety” are you looking for? 100% guarantee that you are always safe? With freedom (of all kinds) comes responsibility.

What freedoms are you willing to give up in exchange for a 100% safety guarantee?

do you feel vehicles should be banned because some drunk drive? Or only have restaurants that serve healthy food to eliminate obesity and heart failure? Seriously how bad do you want the government to be responsible for you? For me it is 0%

I mean we are simply talking about a list of guns and who they belong to and you guys find that unreasonable.