ADVERTISEMENT

Interesting stats from Chris Low...

TaterTater

TaterTater

Member
Jun 12, 2019
229
224
43
Tennessee
We have lots of conversation on here about conferences, namely the SEC vs ACC. I won’t be an idiot and argue that, at the top, the SEC has been the cream of the crop the last few years (thanks to Bama and UGA), but these records throughout the conference are very interesting.

SEC records last 3 years vs. final AP Top 25:
Ala 14-3 (.823)
Ga 7-7 (.500)
Aub 6-10 (.375)
TAMU 4-8 (.333)
Fla 3-7 (.300)
LSU 4-10 (.285)
Ky 3-8 (.272)
Tenn 3-8 (.272)
SC 2-10 (.166)
Miss State 2-11 (.153)
Vandy 1-8 (.111)
Mizzou 1-9 (.100)
Ole Miss 1-10 (.090)

ACC records last 3 years vs. final AP Top 25:
Clemson 14-1 (.933)
Miami 3-5 (.375)
Duke 3-6 (.333)
FSU 4-10 (.285)
Pitt 4-11 (.266)
Cuse 3-9 (.250)
Ga Tech 2-7 (.222)
UNC 2-7 (.222)
UVa 1-5 (.166)
Va Tech 1-7 (.125)
Wake 1-8 (.111)
Louis 1-9 (.100)
NCSU 0-9 (.000)
BC 0-10 (.000)
 
How about vs non top25. Bama zero losses? Clemson 2? Do you have all the teams from ACC / SEC?
 
I think I see what you’re saying but, the SEC has played 13 more games against top 25 teams than has the ACC. In addition the SEC has won 51 games against the top 25 while the ACC has won only 39. The losses for each league against top 25 is about the same.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigTomE
The ACC has some solid fball teams and the national champion. I will argue the following point until I am blue in the face. Going to Baton Rouge and Gainesville back to back in any season, for any team is awfully hard to do and avoid a loss. This is something no ACC team, including the Clemson Steelers, have ever had to respect. It's real.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Freddie.B.Cocky, cockn'fyr, Judson1 and 2 others
I am most concerned about 2-10, South Carolina's record against Top-25 teams. Watching conference foes play in championship games and chanting SEC, SEC, SEC has gotten old.

Some have suggested our team's fortunes would change if it played in the ACC, but I am not so confident. South Carolina's 0-28 loss to Virginia was inexcusable.

Go Gamecocks!

SC 95
 
  • Like
Reactions: Harvard Gamecock, agantt and Goose cock
CockStein said:
The ACC has some solid fball teams and the national champion. I will argue the following point until I am blue in the face. Going to Baton Rouge and Gainesville back to back in any season, for any team is awfully hard to do and avoid a loss. This is something no ACC team, including the Clemson Steelers, have ever had to respect. It's real.
Click to expand...

I don’t know that going to Gainesville has been as difficult a place to play for any team since Urban left, but I get your argument. However, it hasn’t stopped other teams within the SEC from stepping up and having championship caliber seasons. It seems the top programs tend to use it and view it as an advantage to reaching greater heights, and the bottom teams tend to use it as an excuse for why they can’t get there.
 
TaterTater said:
We have lots of conversation on here about conferences, namely the SEC vs ACC. I won’t be an idiot and argue that, at the top, the SEC has been the cream of the crop the last few years (thanks to Bama and UGA), but these records throughout the conference are very interesting.

SEC records last 3 years vs. final AP Top 25:
Ala 14-3 (.823)
Ga 7-7 (.500)
Aub 6-10 (.375)
TAMU 4-8 (.333)
Fla 3-7 (.300)
LSU 4-10 (.285)
Ky 3-8 (.272)
Tenn 3-8 (.272)
SC 2-10 (.166)
Miss State 2-11 (.153)
Vandy 1-8 (.111)
Mizzou 1-9 (.100)
Ole Miss 1-10 (.090)

ACC records last 3 years vs. final AP Top 25:
Clemson 14-1 (.933)
Miami 3-5 (.375)
Duke 3-6 (.333)
FSU 4-10 (.285)
Pitt 4-11 (.266)
Cuse 3-9 (.250)
Ga Tech 2-7 (.222)
UNC 2-7 (.222)
UVa 1-5 (.166)
Va Tech 1-7 (.125)
Wake 1-8 (.111)
Louis 1-9 (.100)
NCSU 0-9 (.000)
BC 0-10 (.000)
Click to expand...
Aren't most of the top 25 teams the SEC plays against other SEC schools? Doesn't this skew the data?
 
  • Like
Reactions: cockn'fyr, uscg1984, Lakecock1 and 2 others
My Tater friend....anytime ya'll would like to join the SEC. Apply! Things would be different for you I assure you. As of now you have at least 7 open dates a year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lakecock1
Interesting stats from Chris Low...

Perhaps these might be considered 'interesting' stats, to some BUT, are they of any use whatsoever???

I don't know. They appear to be just pretzel logic, in my opinion. Too many apples vs oranges comparisons for me.

Playing/Beating teams #20 thru #25 is, in no way, comparable to playing/beating teams 1 thru 5.

The weighted average is out of balance. The Top 25 is dominated by SEC teams. When a top 25 SEC team beats another top 25 SEC team ... it's a wash.

But, the main point is, playing 5 or 6 teams ranked in the top 25, during a season, is substantially more difficult than playing just 1 or 2 ranked teams. Plus, once again, you are returned to trying to make sensible comparisons between playing i.e., #'s 2, 7, 11, 15, and 23 versus playing just #18 & #25.

Doesn't work, for me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lakecock1 and BigTomE
viennacocks said:
Aren't most of the top 25 teams the SEC plays against other SEC schools? Doesn't this skew the data?
Click to expand...

Over the three year time span of the stats, the amount of teams ranked in the final CFP rankings per conference were:

2016: ACC 5, SEC 5
2017: ACC 5, SEC 5
2018: ACC 2, SEC 8

2018 would slightly skew the data a bit. However, the number of games played against top 25 teams is virtually the same because not ever team plays one another ever year, so his data is pretty spot on when it comes to this. Good question.
 
SEC: 13 Teams listed (You forgot Arkansas)
160 total games 12.3 Avg per team
51 total wins for a 3.92 Avg per team

ACC 14 teams listed
142 total games 10.2 Avg per team
39 total wins for a 2.79 Avg per team
 
TaterTater said:
Over the three year time span of the stats, the amount of teams ranked in the final CFP rankings per conference were:

2016: ACC 5, SEC 5
2017: ACC 5, SEC 5
2018: ACC 2, SEC 8

2018 would slightly skew the data a bit. However, the number of games played against top 25 teams is virtually the same because not ever team plays one another ever year, so his data is pretty spot on when it comes to this. Good question.
Click to expand...
18 vs 12. ACC does not play all teams every year either so that's a wash. Pretty significant skew based on the math. Nice try.
 
Thigh Man said:
Interesting stats from Chris Low...

Perhaps these might be considered 'interesting' stats, to some BUT, are they of any use whatsoever???

I don't know. They appear to be just pretzel logic, in my opinion. Too many apples vs oranges comparisons for me.

Playing/Beating teams #20 thru #25 is, in no way, comparable to playing/beating teams 1 thru 5.

The weighted average is out of balance. The Top 25 is dominated by SEC teams. When a top 25 SEC team beats another top 25 SEC team ... it's a wash.

But, the main point is, playing 5 or 6 teams ranked in the top 25, during a season, is substantially more difficult than playing just 1 or 2 ranked teams. Plus, once again, you are returned to trying to make sensible comparisons between playing i.e., #'s 2, 7, 11, 15, and 23 versus playing just #18 & #25.

Doesn't work, for me.
Click to expand...

Sure, and in no way am I trying to make a case that the ACC is better than the SEC. The point was that separators are at the top, and I’d argue the rest of the conference, as far as adding to strength of schedule, is a wash. ie: replace the bottom half of the SEC with the bottom half of the ACC and you won’t see a whole lot of shake up at the top of either conference.
 
  • Like
Reactions: agantt
So you want people to conclude that the lower SEC teams are equal to the lower acc teams? I tend to think that 3 thru 9 of SEC is much better than 3 thru 9 of other conferences year in and year out. I think that's a bit more important than saying 10 thru 14 are equally as bad as 10 thru 14 of another conference
 
  • Like
Reactions: uscnoklahoma2 and Thigh Man
TaterTater said:
Sure, and in no way am I trying to make a case that the ACC is better than the SEC. The point was that separators are at the top, and I’d argue the rest of the conference, as far as adding to strength of schedule, is a wash. ie: replace the bottom half of the SEC with the bottom half of the ACC and you won’t see a whole lot of shake up at the top of either conference.
Click to expand...

The whole SEC vs ACC debate is silly, in my opinion. Primarily b/c the ones who argue the loudest about it, at least from the SEC side, are not the top teams. Bama doesn't have to go around thumping their chest about the SEC b/c they know good and well they have been the SEC to a large extent for quite a while now. Gets really old hearing our fans carry on about the SEC dominance when we have historically done nothing but drag the conference down.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FJRTiger, agantt and Thigh Man
viennacocks said:
18 vs 12. ACC does not play all teams every year either so that's a wash. Pretty significant skew based on the math. Nice try.
Click to expand...

"slightly" was used in sarcasm, but I didn't emphasize that. You are correct, 2018 would skew the data. I gave him credit for asking a great question.
 
wdgamecock22 said:
So you want people to conclude that the lower SEC teams are equal to the lower acc teams? I tend to think that 3 thru 9 of SEC is much better than 3 thru 9 of other conferences year in and year out. I think that's a bit more important than saying 10 thru 14 are equally as bad as 10 thru 14 of another conference
Click to expand...

What people choose to conclude is up to them. My original post said that I found the stats interesting. The two conferences are debated on here quite a bit and I think the real separation is just at the top, and not as much anywhere else, and these stats were a reflection of that IMO.

You are probably correct that in 2018, 3-7 or so in the SEC were as good as any other conferences, and that will probably be the case in 2019 as well. I think both conferences will be better at the top (more quality teams), with a larger number of teams as bottom feeders. The middle-class is probably shrinking in both.
 
18IsTheMan said:
The whole SEC vs ACC debate is silly, in my opinion. Primarily b/c the ones who argue the loudest about it, at least from the SEC side, are not the top teams. Bama doesn't have to go around thumping their chest about the SEC b/c they know good and well they have been the SEC to a large extent for quite a while now. Gets really old hearing our fans carry on about the SEC dominance when we have historically done nothing but drag the conference down.
Click to expand...

There is some truth to this.
 
Dingus MaGee said:
My Tater friend....anytime ya'll would like to join the SEC. Apply! Things would be different for you I assure you. As of now you have at least 7 open dates a year.
Click to expand...

I hope Clemson never joins the SEC. Being apart of a top heavy conference is overrated now that we have the playoff system, and is actually more of a hinderance than a help as long as you schedule 1 good non-conference game.

As far as "7 open dates" goes, I think that is debatable. When you are at the top you get everyones best game, and they throw things at you they don't do against anyone else, because beating you could make their season. I like the dynamic, and I think it makes for fun football.
 
  • Like
Reactions: boykinlp
TaterTater said:
Based off the level of maturity in this comment, I could assume you probably can just yell downstairs to your mom and have her make you a sandwich...
Click to expand...
Laughing
Interesting thread. SEC can't look down its nose at the ACC the way we used to do. Would love an SEC vs ACC championship. All teams playing each other according to their rank. Would sellout and millions would watch on tv.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Harvard Gamecock, A_F_Deerhunter, criminaltracker1980 and 1 other person
TaterTater said:
I hope Clemson never joins the SEC. Being apart of a top heavy conference is overrated now that we have the playoff system, and is actually more of a hinderance than a help as long as you schedule 1 good non-conference game.

As far as "7 open dates" goes, I think that is debatable. When you are at the top you get everyones best game, and they throw things at you they don't do against anyone else, because beating you could make their season. I like the dynamic, and I think it makes for fun football.
Click to expand...

Playing weak teams in front of 40k fans does not compare to road games at UGA, UF, UT, A&M, that USC faces at least once every two years. Having stated that CU has a great football program at this time. Factually (based on history, pre-season top 25 - 7 SEC teams vs 2 or 3 acc teams, and hypothetically speaking CU would have a much tougher time in the regular season if a member of any other conference other than possibly the PAC 10.
 
  • Like
Reactions: uscnoklahoma2
hobcawcreekcock said:
Playing weak teams in front of 40k fans does not compare to road games at UGA, UF, UT, A&M, that USC faces at least once every two years. Having stated that CU has a great football program at this time. Factually (based on history, pre-season top 25 - 7 SEC teams vs 2 or 3 acc teams, and hypothetically speaking CU would have a much tougher time in the regular season if a member of any other conference other than possibly the PAC 10.
Click to expand...

My point isn’t that you don’t have better regular season games, it’s that you may be trading out a playoff berth at the expense of it (unless you are Alabama).

You are correct with all of these HISTORICAL facts. My argument is that is the college football landscape of old. Teams from “less powerful” conferences are taking up 3 of the 4 playoff spots every year, while your top teams in the SEC are busy beating themselves out of contention for the grand prize.

For what it’s worth I think, as Clemson’s program currently stands, that it would still be us, UGA, and Bama fighting for that playoff spot every season even with an SEC schedule.
 
In the ACC you have Clemson and no one else (football) presently. In the SEC, you have Alabama and Georgia right now. That is it. Clemson lost to Alabama twice but Clemson has defeated a 14-0 Alabama team twice to win a National Championship. There is no question Clemson is the current Miami (Jimmy Johnson) or Florida State (Bobby Bowden) as the only current elite program in the ACC and nationally one of four that will compete for a BSC in the next couple of years (Oklahoma, Alabama, Clemson, Georgia). The SEC has been mostly Bama since Saban arrived but turnover in coaching staffs has taken its toll. I think Georgia makes it to the finals this year and faces Clemson.
 
Last edited:
TaterTater said:
My point isn’t that you don’t have better regular season games, it’s that you may be trading out a playoff berth at the expense of it (unless you are Alabama).

You are correct with all of these HISTORICAL facts. My argument is that is the college football landscape of old. Teams from “less powerful” conferences are taking up 3 of the 4 playoff spots every year, while your top teams in the SEC are busy beating themselves out of contention for the grand prize.

For what it’s worth I think, as Clemson’s program currently stands, that it would still be us, UGA, and Bama fighting for that playoff spot every season even with an SEC schedule.
Click to expand...

I would agree with your last statement. You still would have a tougher time in the SEC regardless. We (SEC Schools) do beat each other up week in and week out. Just look at your walking wounded vs ours.

Finally, arguably two of your three toughest games last year were at A&M and vs. USC’s (offense) lol. We basically had NO DEFENSE after mid-season. As for what SEC money had meant to USC, I suggest you take a ride around WB stadium. The surrounding area hardly resembles what was there a mere 10 years ago.
 
  • Like
Reactions: uscnoklahoma2
hobcawcreekcock said:
I would agree with your last statement. You still would have a tougher time in the SEC regardless. We (SEC Schools) do beat each other up week in and week out. Just look at your walking wounded vs ours.

Finally, arguably two of your three toughest games last year were at A&M and vs. USC’s (offense) lol. We basically had NO DEFENSE after mid-season. As for what SEC money had meant to USC, I suggest you take a ride around WB stadium. The surrounding area hardly resembles what was there a mere 10 years ago.
Click to expand...

Agree with you about last year. Both SEC games were the toughest games we played despite your injuries, outside of the playoff games. This has probably been the case dating back to us having UGA and Auburn on the schedule consistently along with you guys every year...

As far as the money goes, and please don't take this as a jab but it's simply to prove a point, SEC money got you a facilities upgrade (to stay current) in 2019 and one appearance in an SEC championship game. The fairgrounds and surrounding area do look great now, but I have to think that was a minimal cost compared to the upgrades needs to WB and the new facility you built. ACC money got us upgraded facilities 10 years ahead of you (in both football and basketball) and we've got a handful of conference titles and two national championships this decade.

Points being:
  1. Money is in every conference now thanks to TV deals and the playoffs. You no longer have to be in the SEC to be rolling in the dough.
  2. Being in the hardest conference doesn't equal success. If anything, it hurts the programs whose schools don't prioritize all of their sporting decisions around football. I think most of you on this board would agree that is at least a question you have about UofSC?
  3. Leadership wins over everything. Facilities, recruiting, scheduling, staffing...all of that falls in line with the right president and AD.
 
TaterTater said:
Good money - and how is that translating in performance?
Click to expand...

I guess that it all depends on whachawant.

Allow me to explain it this way ... When Ron Turcotte (5',1", 128 lbs) was asked, 'how in the world, does he get to date the most beautiful women in the world?', He answered, "I just stand on my wallet."
 
  • Like
Reactions: TaterTater
Thigh Man said:
I guess that it all depends on whachawant.

Allow me to explain it this way ... When Ron Turcotte (5',1", 128 lbs) was asked, 'how in the world, does he get to date the most beautiful women in the world?', He answered, "I just stand on my wallet."
Click to expand...

haha. That's a quality comparison. He is a legend.

To build on the analogy, let's hope the extra money you've been getting for the last few decades eventually translates into attracting some thoroughbreds that can bring you some championships.
 
Last edited:
TaterTater said:
We have lots of conversation on here about conferences, namely the SEC vs ACC. I won’t be an idiot and argue that, at the top, the SEC has been the cream of the crop the last few years (thanks to Bama and UGA), but these records throughout the conference are very interesting.

SEC records last 3 years vs. final AP Top 25:
Ala 14-3 (.823)
Ga 7-7 (.500)
Aub 6-10 (.375)
TAMU 4-8 (.333)
Fla 3-7 (.300)
LSU 4-10 (.285)
Ky 3-8 (.272)
Tenn 3-8 (.272)
SC 2-10 (.166)
Miss State 2-11 (.153)
Vandy 1-8 (.111)
Mizzou 1-9 (.100)
Ole Miss 1-10 (.090)

ACC records last 3 years vs. final AP Top 25:
Clemson 14-1 (.933)
Miami 3-5 (.375)
Duke 3-6 (.333)
FSU 4-10 (.285)
Pitt 4-11 (.266)
Cuse 3-9 (.250)
Ga Tech 2-7 (.222)
UNC 2-7 (.222)
UVa 1-5 (.166)
Va Tech 1-7 (.125)
Wake 1-8 (.111)
Louis 1-9 (.100)
NCSU 0-9 (.000)
BC 0-10 (.000)
Click to expand...
Cherry picked data to prove what?
I looked through this and it was inaccurate for Clempson already.. I can do the same to prove 'my' point.

They did lose to Pitts in 2016 and Syracuse in 2017 and both never were final AP top 25

Regular season? Cake walk
In 3 years Clempson only played the following teams that ended up in AP top 25.
2018 Texas A&M (Who lost to every good SEC West team and barely got by LSU... only in Top 25 because of SEC West Strength)
2018 Syracuse (Actually a really good win that year)
2017 Auburn (What a strange team that year, they only won by 14 against Mercer the next week and then finally started playing well)
2017 NC State
2017 Miami (ACCCG; Go back in look at their schedule... they sequeaked by medicore teams and lost their last 3 games... shouldn't have been in top 25)
2016 Auburn (Their only good regular season win was LSU)
2016 Louisville (Same like Miami in 2017; they did blow out teams they should beat but lost their last 3 games against tougher competition... shouldn't have been in top 25)
2016 Florida State (Last good Florida State team before they made the ACC worse)
2016 Virginia Tech (ACCCG; I would have to say this was their best ACC win in the last 3 years)
2016 Ohio State (I'll admit I loved watching this game; they ran out of golden nuts for this one)
2016 Alabama (Best matchup against Clempson that Clempson beat a slightly better team)

If you make the CFP game in all 3 years that means you got to play 6 teams that were in the top 25. 14-1? I only counted 10-1. Which game did I miss that the team ended up in AP top 25?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Southern Fried Chicken

Does Bama Get It? Does Carolina Have a Clue?

Replies
0
Views
355
Gamecocks Forum
Southern Fried Chicken
Southern Fried Chicken
B

Ray Tanners non-conference scheduling disaster

Replies
35
Views
747
Gamecocks Forum
Bucs90
B
Caleb Alexander

SEC Media Preseason Picks

Replies
0
Views
516
The Insiders Forum
Caleb Alexander
Caleb Alexander
Alan Cole

Spencer Rattler Named SEC Offensive Player of the Week

Replies
0
Views
221
The Insiders Forum
Alan Cole
Alan Cole
Alan Cole

South Carolina Football Pro Day Numbers

Replies
3
Views
887
Gamecocks Forum
Alan Cole
Alan Cole
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back