Pros/Cons of Making Dawn HC Over the MBB Program....

[adcoop]

I don't think just anyone woman could coach a men's team, just like I don't think any man could coach a women's team.

Having said that, I do believe Dawn could absolutely coach for the men's game. She tough and demands a certain amount of respect. On the other side I don't see Frank Martin being well received in the woman's game.

To answer the question, I think it's a bad idea. She's doing fine where she's at and her goal seems to be elevate the women's game. Why ruin a good thing we got going.

.....and this is part of what is problematic about some posts in this thread. A man can do anything. Coach men, Coach Women. If there is no problem with a lot of men taking up a good swath of the female coaching jobs out there, why the problem with women taken a few of the male positions. We can be so hypocritical sometimes. The sky is the limit for a certain segment of men. However, for every other citizen, the limit is the sky. You here terms like they will be eaten alive. They are in over their head. It's a shame.

 

[Gamekem]

.....and this is part of what is problematic about some posts in this thread. A man can do anything. Coach men, Coach Women. If there is no problem with a lot of men taking up a good swath of the female coaching jobs out there, why the problem with women taken a few of the male positions. We can be so hypocritical sometimes. The sky is the limit for a certain segment of men. However, for every other citizen, the limit is the sky. You here terms like they will be eaten alive. They are in over their head. It's a shame.

Which is why I don't understand how anyone can doubt Dawn in this case. She's from North Philly and played the game from an early against dudes and have the respect of many ballers both on the streets and on the court from both men and women. I think people are mistaking her PG pressers for her being soft. She can very well can handle some prima donnas in the locker. If there was ever a female coach equipped to handle it, it would be Dawn, but for my own selfish reasons I hope we never find out.

 

[DeeDave]

I ask my high school senior about this earlier this morning on his way out of the house.

Now, I have to say, he doesn't care about basketball at all- no interest- zero. Couldn't tell Frank Martin from Steve Martin.

As I expected, he said it didn't matter if a woman coached men, or men coached women. Didn't care. Didn't matter. He was a bit perplexed why I asked and why I thought it mattered. I told him I didn't think it mattered, but apparently some do. Then he was in the car and gone to school.

I just don't think most young people care. I think plenty of adults do care. That's not to say kids wouldn't think about it at first- for about a day because it would be a novelty. But after that- the great majority of them would not care. Some would actually think it's pretty cool.

 

[DeeDave]

.....and this is part of what is problematic about some posts in this thread. A man can do anything. Coach men, Coach Women. If there is no problem with a lot of men taking up a good swath of the female coaching jobs out there, why the problem with women taken a few of the male positions. We can be so hypocritical sometimes. The sky is the limit for a certain segment of men. However, for every other citizen, the limit is the sky. You here terms like they will be eaten alive. They are in over their head. It's a shame.

I read about Nolan Richardson coaching a pro team and the women didn't take to it at all. But it wasn't because he was a man. It was because of his all out coaching style and running style. It was totally different than what any of the players had played in college or on other pro teams. So the style just didn't fit.

So it was about style, not being a man coaching women.

 

[Cackdiesel]

.....and this is part of what is problematic about some posts in this thread. A man can do anything. Coach men, Coach Women. If there is no problem with a lot of men taking up a good swath of the female coaching jobs out there, why the problem with women taken a few of the male positions. We can be so hypocritical sometimes. The sky is the limit for a certain segment of men. However, for every other citizen, the limit is the sky. You here terms like they will be eaten alive. They are in over their head. It's a shame.

Except that most of the arguments here are based on the fact that most people seem to think the men players coming out of high school aren't capable of listening and being coached by a woman. Its almost like the limit is the sky for them.

People are also doubting the "prima donnas". Its sad that we view the men coming out of high school this way but we don't view the women the same way. Its almost like we think the women players can do it but men players need to be treated differently, like they're uncoachable or something.

 

[thebittertruth]

I would like to see Dawn coach an NBA team. I'd like to see what she could do. It'd be pretty cool to see her, or another chick, win an NBA title. But, as has been said, it is important to her to grow the women's game, and I think she takes that more seriously than most anyone. Plus, she has a good gig here. Making over 3 mil per year, and she is always going to have one of the best teams as long as she's at USC.

 

[lexgamecock]

If Dawn could bring in four or so 5 Star players I think she would do a great job as our mens coach

 

[apacock]

We’ve pretty much been in the wilderness for 50 years. If Frank leaves I’d be all for giving dawn a shot. I’m a 61 year old man

 

[HI Cock]

No, nothing deleted. Surely we are all used to someone playing the race card by now…even those this discussion was 100% about gender and 0% about race.
It goes like this: “You don’t agree with me? Well, I may not have a sound argument, but you’re a racist/misogynistic/intentionally Mis-gendering Nazi, so HA! I win!”

When folks say things like "All we'll get is the double thumbs-up on political correctness for hiring a black female coach" that is both racist and sexist. And it certainly shows that people who post comments like that think DS moving to that position would be a token move - not one based on merit. Again, that sort of thinking is inherently racist and sexist. That's not about a disagreement. That's about race and sex.

It's certainly not all posters and there is some interesting discussion in this thread for sure. But see below if you think there's not racism nor sexism.

Not saying it isn’t bad now. Not saying the product wouldn’t be any better. but I hope our long term vision isn’t simply to be better than Frank Martin’s tenure.

The only real pro here would be that it checks the PC box and makes history.

This. Some temporary cute press coverage would not be worth it.

So I assume Tanner is making the pitch now.

The only certain positive I can think of is a double check mark for political correctness and some national attention. The headline would read -S. Carolina makes history by hiring Dawn Staley as first African American female basketball coach for mens’ team.

 

[Neanderthal]

It'd be pretty cool to see her, or another chick,

Uh oh, bitter. Be careful. Some folks are looking for stuff and will rise up on that last word. Carry on.

 

[Jon Snow]

When folks say things like "All we'll get is the double thumbs-up on political correctness for hiring a black female coach" that is both racist and sexist. And it certainly shows that people who post comments like that think DS moving to that position would be a token move - not one based on merit. Again, that sort of thinking is inherently racist and sexist. That's not about a disagreement. That's about race and sex.

It's certainly not all posters and there is some interesting discussion in this thread for sure. But see below if you think there's not racism nor sexism.

There is nothing racist or sexist in those posts. They have the opinion that having CDS coach the Mens team would not lead to any kind of success. No problem, people have opinions about sports.
THEN, they all state that the media-types would give USC lots of positive press because of the PC-worthiness of hiring A. a female to coach the Mens team and B. An African-American female to coach the Mens team. Do you think that wouldn’t happen? I think we ALL have experienced enough of todays media and culture to know that hiring CDS to coach the Mens team would be all the rage in the media for a few weeks. Understanding that doesn’t make them racist, sexist, homophobic, or whatever term you’d like to hang on them.

 

[RoosterBooster1]

In all seriousness, she is now making an ample salary and is a scrappy/proven HC. She even interviewed for the Portland Trailblazers and was quoted as saying, "...you have to consider it all." Yes, she's built a WBB powerhouse but IMO, with the state (history) of our MBB program, it's worth a gamble.

troll job

 

[Six Million Dollar Man]

Hiring Dawn as the men's coach is nothing short of desperate. We would be literally throwing up the white flag of surrender. Our men's program has not been an unmitigated disaster like say, Clemson's. It has been bad but not totally fruitless with conference titles in the Southern Conference, ACC, SEC, two NIT titles and a Final Four. Plus an undefeated season in the ACC.

Just need someone perhaps a hoops version of Shane. Don't sacrifice the crown jewel (for now at least) of USC for MBB. Someone can come in here and win consistently. And will.

 

[thebittertruth]

When folks say things like "All we'll get is the double thumbs-up on political correctness for hiring a black female coach" that is both racist and sexist. And it certainly shows that people who post comments like that think DS moving to that position would be a token move - not one based on merit. Again, that sort of thinking is inherently racist and sexist. That's not about a disagreement. That's about race and sex.

It's certainly not all posters and there is some interesting discussion in this thread for sure. But see below if you think there's not racism nor sexism.

There is probably some light to moderate sexism in this thread, but nothing racist. Yet, there you are, comparing posters here to goddamn klansmen! As I read that post, I was initially a bit angry, but the more I think about it, I'm actually embarrassed for you.

 

[adcoop]

There is probably some light to moderate sexism in this thread, but nothing racist. Yet, there you are, comparing posters here to goddamn klansmen! As I read that post, I was initially a bit angry, but the more I think about it, I'm actually embarrassed for you.

You see, that is the problem with racism. We all have our own definition of what it is. If you use some deductive reasoning skills, some of the above comments definitely had some racism in it by drawing the conclusion that all we would get out of it is checking a double minority box. What's the second minority box if gender is the first. I think Coach Staley is Black. So, I think that is where the race issue lies. Dawn is pretty, light skinned. So, I don't know. Please, someone correct me if I am wrong. The notion of drawing a conclusion based on someone's gender or race without giving them a chance is both racist and sexist. The best answer you could give and you could avoid all this is saying I don't know how she would do because it has never been done. I am not ready to experiment with our program like that. However, we all want to say whatever is the first thing that comes to our mind without being thoughtful of how others would see it and get mad when there is some blowback.

 

[thebittertruth]

You see, that is the problem with racism. We all have our own definition of what it is. If you use some deductive reasoning skills, some of the above comments definitely had some racism in it by drawing the conclusion that all we would get out of it is checking a double minority box. What's the second minority box if gender is the first. I think Coach Staley is Black. So, I think that is where the race issue lies. Dawn is pretty, light skinned. So, I don't know. Please, someone correct me if I am wrong. The notion of drawing a conclusion based on someone's gender or race without giving them a chance is both racist and sexist. The best answer you could give and you could avoid all this is saying I don't know how she would do because it has never been done. I am not ready to experiment with our program like that. However, we all want to say whatever is the first thing that comes to our mind without being thoughtful of how others would see it and get mad when there is some blowback.

Just because someone has their own definition of racism doesn't mean I'm obligated to accept/respect it if it's a stupid, unreasonable definition. Such as likening anyone in this thread to a klansman.

The comments you reference said the PC, attention, and history would be positives. There is no doubt that USC would be lauded nationally. Now, if they think those are the only good things that would come from Dawn being our men's coach, I'm assuming it is because they think she wouldn't do a good job. Based on the history of this thread, I think that would be more in line with sexist views, not racist. But if someone is looking for racism, they'll find it.

 

[adcoop]

Just because someone has their own definition of racism doesn't mean I'm obligated to accept/respect it if it's a stupid, unreasonable definition. Such as likening anyone in this thread to a klansman.

The comments you reference said the PC, attention, and history would be positives. There is no doubt that USC would be lauded nationally. Now, if they think those are the only good things that would come from Dawn being our men's coach, I'm assuming it is because they think she wouldn't do a good job. Based on the history of this thread, I think that would be more in line with sexist views, not racist. But if someone is looking for racism, they'll find it.

So, why would they think she wouldn't do a good job? So, why are you so fast to erase the race part, but willing to accept the sex part. We have made a racist statement such an albatross that some want to refuse to call it out ever. We all have our own opinions. If you don't see the racism in it. Good for you. However, my issue is you discounting the people that have an issue with it with regards to race. They have the right to their own opinion just like you. You can't control how people see you no matter how indignant and mad you might get when someone expresses their opinion. I have had people on this message board call me racist a lot over the years. A couple even had the nerve to call me the "N" word. Nonetheless, they had the right to their little opinion. I just brush myself off. Stand on what I have to say and believe and let people have whatever opinion they like.

 

[thebittertruth]

So, why would they think she wouldn't do a good job? So, why are you so fast to erase the race part, but willing to accept the sex part. We have made a racist statement such an albatross that some want to refuse to call it out ever. We all have our own opinions. If you don't see the racism in it. Good for you. However, my issue is you discounting the people that have an issue with it with regards to race. They have the right to their own opinion just like you. You can't control how people see you no matter how indignant and mad you might get when someone expresses their opinion. I have had people on this message board call me racist a lot over the years. A couple even had the nerve to call me the "N" word. Nonetheless, they had the right to their little opinion. I just brush myself off. Stand on what I have to say and believe and let people have whatever opinion they like.

I think some just think a woman wouldn't be able to coach men. Right or wrong, some think that.

I am quick to erase claims of racism, because there is none to be found in this thread. Of course I will eschew carnival barkers screaming racism where there is none.

And no one is saying anyone doesn't have the right to a dumb opinion. This board is littered with imbeciles freely expressing themselves. But if you can't understand why anyone in this thread wouldn't be offended at being compared to a klansman, that's just being unreasonably intransigent.

 

[adcoop]

I think some just think a woman wouldn't be able to coach men. Right or wrong, some think that.

I am quick to erase claims of racism, because there is none to be found in this thread. Of course I will eschew carnival barkers screaming racism where there is none.

And no one is saying anyone doesn't have the right to a dumb opinion. This board is littered with imbeciles freely expressing themselves. But if you can't understand why anyone in this thread wouldn't be offended at being compared to a klansman, that's just being unreasonably intransigent.

No, matter what you say, 1 + 1 doesn't equal 1. If you are saying the only positive from a potential hire is to get the benefit of a gender and racial hire, you have made race a part of the conversation. I'm done with this as I am trying to get some work done and explaining issues of race to you is pointless because you were never see what you refuse to see.

 

[thebittertruth]

No, matter what you say, 1 + 1 doesn't equal 1. If you are saying the only positive from a potential hire is to get the benefit of a gender and racial hire, you have made race a part of the conversation. I'm done with this as I am trying to get some work done and explaining issues of race to you is pointless because you were never see what you refuse to see.

I see quite clearly. The issue is the intellectual flotsam that you are spreading.

 

[sgacock]

Just make her the new AD.

don’t we like doing that with our best coaches?

 

[HI Cock]

I think some just think a woman wouldn't be able to coach men. Right or wrong, some think that.

I am quick to erase claims of racism, because there is none to be found in this thread. Of course I will eschew carnival barkers screaming racism where there is none.

And no one is saying anyone doesn't have the right to a dumb opinion. This board is littered with imbeciles freely expressing themselves. But if you can't understand why anyone in this thread wouldn't be offended at being compared to a klansman, that's just being unreasonably intransigent.

My sincere apologies if I offended anyone by comparing them to klansmen. Clearly, making a comment in a message board is far less harmful than what the klan did. Admittedly it was a cheap parlor trick designed to bring attention to the fact that several folks here were quick to dismiss DS for sex and race and not for her many laudable accomplishments.

At the same time, and especially in this time, let us never forget that there were many members of entirely racist organizations (not only the klan) that judged a person not for their merits but for factors that were merely a matter of biology. Not everyone in the klan burned crosses and worse, but they all held that same basic belief that a person's worth should NOT be based on a person's merits. There is a comparison to be made here.

Again, my apologies to those I offended. Hopefully forgiveness is part of your world view - as well as self-reflection.

 

[atl-cock]

USC is woke enough. Just let her coach her team and do what she's been doing.

I think DS is more interested in mentoring young women and not in running an Athletics Department.

 

[atl-cock]

All sports matter, but some matter more. MBB is much more important than WBB. Sure, we're a WBB powerhouse, but there just aren't that many people who really care. Regularly getting to the tournament in MBB would be better national exposure than being the next UConn.

Some sports matter more to some people than to others.