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Reasons to keep Frank. Help me out.

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viennacocks

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Dec 19, 2011
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- The recruiting benefit of going to a final four takes time. It's ready to kick in!

- Although he publicly berates his players, they love him.

- He is turning boys into men, regardless of record.

- Some public figures love him. Let's not upset the apple cart.

- We have been average at basketball for many years. It's who we are. A new coach won't change this.

- He is dealing with injuries, covid and suspensions. Wait until he has a full compliment of players.

- He is a good guy.
 
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cockofdawn said:
His wife is Hot
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Well someone start adding pics of her because I'm getting tired of reading about Frank. I've had his back for a long time. Finally had enough to where even if he swings things around this season, we need new blood in general in the program. I was just hoping Frank would of left for Miami or something. If we fire him, the coaching world will look at us like they are the dolphins for firing Flores recently.
 
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TAV31 said:
Well someone start adding pics of her because I'm getting tired of reading about Frank. I've had his back for a long time. Finally had enough to where even if he swings things around this season, we need new blood in general in the program. I was just hoping Frank would of left for Miami or something. If we fire him, the coaching world will look at us like they are the dolphins for firing Flores recently.
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He can leave for Miami, and enjoy a nice retirement lifestyle, but I can tell you on very good authority that he will not be getting a paycheck from the Miami Hurricanes in any capacity.
 
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Yelling on the sidelines is not a good reason to fire him. Watch Calipari and Pearl berate players. All good coaches do it to some degree.

Here's a partial list of reasons to move on from Frank Martin:
  1. He can't recruit top players - only projects or mid-level guys.
  2. His record here is just barely above .500
  3. He has an overall losing SEC record
  4. His teams don't look prepared for what other teams will do
  5. We have not been a very good defensive team for several years
  6. We can't shoot (never have been a good shooting team under FM)
  7. Poor passing team resulting in too many TOs.
 
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I would look at some of the top teams in the country and interview the top assistant. Arizona hired Tommy Lloyd from Gonzaga. Look around at programs like that.

I would give Sean Miller a call too. At least consider him. I don't think there is any proof he had direct involvement in paying players.

I would say "no" to Mike Boynton. He really hasn't had consistent success at Ok. State.
 
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OldWiseCock said:
Yelling on the sidelines is not a good reason to fire him. Watch Calipari and Pearl berate players. All good coaches do it to some degree.

Here's a partial list of reasons to move on from Frank Martin:
  1. He can't recruit top players - only projects or mid-level guys.
  2. His record here is just barely above .500
  3. He has an overall losing SEC record
  4. His teams don't look prepared for what other teams will do
  5. We have not been a very good defensive team for several years
  6. We can't shoot (never have been a good shooting team under FM)
  7. Poor passing team resulting in too many TOs.
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I'll add one to this list.

8. He uses the yelling as a cover for your #4. It's the "Look at me Coach" approach. He has fooled a lot of people with it in my opinion.
 
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OldWiseCock said:
I would look at some of the top teams in the country and interview the top assistant. Arizona hired Tommy Lloyd from Gonzaga. Look around at programs like that.

I would give Sean Miller a call too. At least consider him. I don't think there is any proof he had direct involvement in paying players.

I would say "no" to Mike Boynton. He really hasn't had consistent success at Ok. State.
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I would at least interview Boynton. It's not like he has been at Oklahoma State a long time and he went in with about 8 scholarship players and probation looming. He went to the tournament last season, went to the Big 12 Tournament title game, and just beat #1 Baylor at their place yesterday. Also, I don't think it is about finding someone that has had consistent success somewhere. We have done that countless times and it hasn't worked. We need to interview candidates with an eye toward what their ideas would be to recruit the local area better. I am not talking about Columbia, but the 1-77, I-20, I-26, and I-85 corridors as well. There is more than enough talent in those areas, but we lose out on many of those recruits. Most times, it's not even to the blue-bloods like Duke or North Carolina either. There were 2 5 star recruits in Columbia this year. One is going the Overtime Elite (Professional) route. The other left for a prep school and is signing with LSU. There is another five star in Columbia in '23. All indication are that he is going to North Carolina. We have to interview with this dynamic in mind. Listen to why recruits don't prefer us and not just poo-poo the results and claim they are due to the ills of the AAU system and our poor history. We have to be willing to change. How we won in the '70s is not going to be how we can win in 2020 and beyond
 
I was a Frank supporter until the Coastal game. Not only did he put a crap team on the floor who got beaten by a weak opponent, we lost by 24!

Then I sat and watched Cliff Ellis calmly herd his kids away from the little dust up. Total class. What does Frank do in contrast? Grabs Gray and takes him over where fans were and unloads an avalanche of F bombs right in his face.

I was pulling for the 7 foot 250 pounder to just deck Frank. He really had it coming. Would have been bad publicity for USC, though.

There is no reason to keep him.
 
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Everyone on the above posts, some sarcastic and some not, have a lot of truth in them. But this is about the 3rd year in a row thar we have seen multiple threads detailing the reasons why a change should be made. Convinced that the administration was also fed up with the mediocrity. Then nothing happens. I am sure a lot of it may have centered on how much they would have to pay Frank if they fired him. But one would think that at this point all can see that the program is just treading water, and struggling to not drown. I assume a change will be made, but I have thought that the last two years
 
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viennacocks said:
- The recruiting benefit of going to a final four takes time. It's ready to kick in!

- Although he publicly berates his players, they love him.

- He is turning boys into men, regardless of record.

- Some public figures love him. Let's not upset the apple cart.

- We have been average at basketball for many years. It's who we are. A new coach won't change this.

- He is dealing with injuries, covid and suspensions. Wait until he has a full compliment of players.

- He is a good guy.
Click to expand...
- He's a snappy dresser.

- He cried on TV showing his sensitive side.
 
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adcoop said:
I would at least interview Boynton. It's not like he has been at Oklahoma State a long time and he went in with about 8 scholarship players and probation looming. He went to the tournament last season, went to the Big 12 Tournament title game, and just beat #1 Baylor at their place yesterday. Also, I don't think it is about finding someone that has had consistent success somewhere. We have done that countless times and it hasn't worked. We need to interview candidates with an eye toward what their ideas would be to recruit the local area better. I am not talking about Columbia, but the 1-77, I-20, I-26, and I-85 corridors as well. There is more than enough talent in those areas, but we lose out on many of those recruits. Most times, it's not even to the blue-bloods like Duke or North Carolina either. There were 2 5 star recruits in Columbia this year. One is going the Overtime Elite (Professional) route. The other left for a prep school and is signing with LSU. There is another five star in Columbia in '23. All indication are that he is going to North Carolina. We have to interview with this dynamic in mind. Listen to why recruits don't prefer us and not just poo-poo the results and claim they are due to the ills of the AAU system and our poor history. We have to be willing to change. How we won in the '70s is not going to be how we can win in 2020 and beyond
Click to expand...

I'm not saying he shouldn't get an interview. But to your point, I don't see anything on Boynton's resume that would lead to me to think he is, or can be, an elite recruiter. He signed Cade Cunningham by hiring his high school coach. That appears to be a one-off event. They are 9-7 this year including the win over Baylor.
 
OldWiseCock said:
I'm not saying he shouldn't get an interview. But to your point, I don't see anything on Boynton's resume that would lead to me to think he is, or can be, an elite recruiter. He signed Cade Cunningham by hiring his high school coach. That appears to be a one-off event. They are 9-7 this year including the win over Baylor.
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He only got the Top Recruit in the country last year in Cade Cunningham. He ,also, got 2 5 Stars out of the Transfer Portal (One from Kansas and the other from Memphis) that are in his starting lineup right now. Bryce Thompson had an excellent game in the win over Baylor yesterday. They have lost some games they shouldn’t have this year, but I think a lot of that was due to the disappointment of not being able to play in the post-season this year. That team has more than enough to win if they can just focus on being a spoiler for this year. He has done enough on the recruiting trail to intrigue me to ask: What have you been doing that we have not? You may discount the Cade Cunningham recruitment as a one-off. However, when have we been able to pull that off? Like I said, we have to start thinking outside of the box. We are not Arizona, pretty much a blue blood that recruits itself. We are a struggling program that needs to do something different to have recruit gives us a second look.
 
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Rick Barnes has won everywhere he’s ever been. The kid at Furman would be a good hire. Someone is going to get him.
 
OldWiseCock said:
I'm not saying he shouldn't get an interview. But to your point, I don't see anything on Boynton's resume that would lead to me to think he is, or can be, an elite recruiter. He signed Cade Cunningham by hiring his high school coach. That appears to be a one-off event. They are 9-7 this year including the win over Baylor.
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Don’t worry. We aren’t getting Boynton. The fans in OSU love him and realize how far he brought a program that was really down when he took over.

As bad as we are and have been, I find it ironic that anyone in our fanbase could look at what Boynton has done at OSU and not want him here. About as ironic as finding no evidence he is an elite recruiter and then mentioning he signed the #1 player in the country last season. He isn’t the first coach to hire a dad. I would’ve hired his dad for Cade Cunningham. If he didn’t, somebody else would’ve.

Truth is, no matter who we hire…it’s going to be an uphill battle to have any success. You’d think Boynton might have a soft spot for us. He’s got experience, he’s got connections, and he’s easy to like. But we’ll hire some mid-major Darrin Horn 2.0 guy that has an amazing weekend in March instead of doing what it takes to bring one of our own home.
 
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adcoop said:
He only got the Top Recruit in the country last year in Cade Cunningham. He ,also, got 2 5 Stars out of the Transfer Portal (One from Kansas and the other from Memphis) that are in his starting lineup right now. Bryce Thompson had an excellent game in the win over Baylor yesterday. They have lost some games they shouldn’t have this year, but I think a lot of that was due to the disappointment of not being able to play in the post-season this year. That team has more than enough to win if they can just focus on being a spoiler for this year. He has done enough on the recruiting trail to intrigue me to ask: What have you been doing that we have not? You may discount the Cade Cunningham recruitment as a one-off. However, when have we been able to pull that off? Like I said, we have to start thinking outside of the box. We are not Arizona, pretty much a blue blood that recruits itself. We are a struggling program that needs to do something different to have recruit gives us a second look.
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Boynton's record at Ok State

2017-2018: 21-15, 8-10 (6th) NIT Quarterfinals
2018-2019: 12-20, 5-13 (9th)
2019-2020: 18-14, 7-11 (7th) season canceled
2020-2021: 21-9, 11-7 (5th) NCAA Round of 32
2021-2022: 9-7, 2-3 (7th)

Totals: 81-65 (56%) and 33-44 (43%)

I don't see anything especially impressive there. His highest finish in the conference is 5th. That was with the top player in the country. I understand the sentiment towards him because he played and coached here. But I think we'd simply end up with another under-achiever.

For the record, I'm not really a big fan of Pat Kelsey, Bob Richey or Niko Medved to replace Martin. I would hire Sean Miller and not think twice about it. That won't happen, but if we are serious about winning that's what we need to do. Or, I would interview the top assistants at successful programs like Gonzaga, Baylor, Houston, Auburn and the like.
 
You definitely need a coach that can recruit. Years on end with no shooters or big men that can score. It's a head scratcher that you have 3 or 4 front line guys that can only score 4 points in a game.
 
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OldWiseCock said:
Boynton's record at Ok State

2017-2018: 21-15, 8-10 (6th) NIT Quarterfinals
2018-2019: 12-20, 5-13 (9th)
2019-2020: 18-14, 7-11 (7th) season canceled
2020-2021: 21-9, 11-7 (5th) NCAA Round of 32
2021-2022: 9-7, 2-3 (7th)

Totals: 81-65 (56%) and 33-44 (43%)

I don't see anything especially impressive there. His highest finish in the conference is 5th. That was with the top player in the country. I understand the sentiment towards him because he played and coached here. But I think we'd simply end up with another under-achiever.

For the record, I'm not really a big fan of Pat Kelsey, Bob Richey or Niko Medved to replace Martin. I would hire Sean Miller and not think twice about it. That won't happen, but if we are serious about winning that's what we need to do. Or, I would interview the top assistants at successful programs like Gonzaga, Baylor, Houston, Auburn and the like.
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You are acting like you are telling me something I don’t know by posting Boynton’s record. I am well aware of his record and the circumstances surrounding the program when he took the job. Also, the Big 12 is a much tougher basketball conference than ours. You can finish 7th or sometimes 8th in that league and still make the tournament. Look at how Bruce Weber is struggling at K-State and he got to the dance several times at Illinois. Focusing on just previous record is part of our program’s problem when it comes to hiring basketball coaches. So, like one previous poster said, we go out and hire the next hot name from a mid-major that won a game or two in the tournament and their light usually burns out in 4-5 years here. Our program has some challenges that are beyond just a basketball coach with a a great record. We need someone that, first, wants to be here. Second, we need someone that can change some of the perceptions of our program. For example, our toxic relationship with AAU coaches. Whether we like it or not, that is the lifeblood of basketball recruiting. Until we accept that and can find someone that can work better in that world, we will always be struggling to win with projects and under the radar prospects. I have no problem with Sean Miller as a coach. If Kelvin Sampson can be rehabilitated, then Miller certainly can. However, I don’t think we should hire any of these coaches without some tough and sometimes uncomfortable questions being asked on how recruiting will be addressed at a program like ours.
 
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I agree that at this point in history, a coach has to be at the AAU tournaments, the shoe tournaments as they used to be called. That’s where the top talent is amassed. All college coaches that come to the summer clinics moan and groan that they have to go to the AAU tournaments, or they just got back and the play was awful, etc. But they still go. They have to. And they can moan about it privately or even at clinics, but if they want to help themselves, they ought to put on a good public appearance about it, or say nothing like most. FM has hurt his recruiting by going against it.
 
viennacocks said:
- The recruiting benefit of going to a final four takes time. It's ready to kick in!

- Although he publicly berates his players, they love him.

- He is turning boys into men, regardless of record.

- Some public figures love him. Let's not upset the apple cart.

- We have been average at basketball for many years. It's who we are. A new coach won't change this.

- He is dealing with injuries, covid and suspensions. Wait until he has a full compliment of players.

- He is a good guy.
Click to expand...
Here are my reasons to keep Frank:
 
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TAV31 said:
Well someone start adding pics of her because I'm getting tired of reading about Frank. I've had his back for a long time. Finally had enough to where even if he swings things around this season, we need new blood in general in the program. I was just hoping Frank would of left for Miami or something. If we fire him, the coaching world will look at us like they are the dolphins for firing Flores recently.
Click to expand...
Worst thing that could happen for Gamecock Mens Basketball is for Frank to somehow make the tourney this year. That would likely guarantee Many more season of mediocre basketball. I’m not a fire the coach sort of guy but this is pointless. Beamer has shown us how culture changes expectations and excitement. They’re is nothing positive about our mens basketball program. I can’t imagine why a really good talent would choose to come here. We need a change. We need a coach on the rise.
 
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tlnorris said:
Worst thing that could happen for Gamecock Mens Basketball is for Frank to somehow make the tourney this year. That would likely guarantee Many more season of mediocre basketball. I’m not a fire the coach sort of guy but this is pointless. Beamer has shown us how culture changes expectations and excitement. They’re is nothing positive about our mens basketball program. I can’t imagine why a really good talent would choose to come here. We need a change. We need a coach on the rise.
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Probably need to win the SEC tournament to get in the dance.
 
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