If you understood what I said, I communicated fine.. Also, I didn't criticize Everyone's communication skills. I was critical of the negative posters communication skills.
The Demise of our Men s programs
- Thread starter kbforusc
- Start date
If the CEO of any other company had the results that Tanner had over the past 5 years, he would have been fired. I can't fathom why he still has the job. No clue. It starts at the top.
Yeah that’s a pretty good example . They do have a pretty impressive legacy that probably gives them some hope unlike us . Your absolutely right that Nebraska is probably the closest example .
Well, I dont know anything about running a company. So, that call is out of my league. I do know a little about teaching and coaching basketball.
You ever thought about how much there is to do in Nebraska outside of attending football games?
Been patient since 1968. How much longer?
Amen, King Ward! I'm 66 years old and we have only so many "Wait til Next Year's" left.
Did we let it be known after Spurrier retired that we had a lot of money to spend and would hire the best? Now, I don't don't know this for a fact, but my impression was that Ray was not willing to pay a big salary which immediately reduced the pool of possible candidates.
Yeah. Sure beats 2 national titles at baseball and another time game appearance and a trip to the final 4. I feel confident at baseball and basketball they would trade places.
I am so confused here by “Men s program”...
Are we talking about our “Men’s programs”, and if so do you refer to loss of revenue due to covid and possibly having to eliminate some, or to the recent run of unsuccessful season’s in the big three?
OR, Was this supposed to be “Men’s S program”- IOW, our soccer program?
Regardless of what your answer is to the above questions- why all of a sudden now, while no sports are even being played- did it suddenly need to be said?
Are we talking about our “Men’s programs”, and if so do you refer to loss of revenue due to covid and possibly having to eliminate some, or to the recent run of unsuccessful season’s in the big three?
OR, Was this supposed to be “Men’s S program”- IOW, our soccer program?
Regardless of what your answer is to the above questions- why all of a sudden now, while no sports are even being played- did it suddenly need to be said?
I gotta say comparing Nebraska (historically) is not an equal comparison when you’re talking about program support, even considering Nebraska hasn’t been Nebraska for about 20 years. Look at this unfortunate side by side, and it gives you all the answers you need. 46 conference championships, several claimed titles, 70 weeks at #1, 902 wins, and you know a good chunk of that came since 1962, so no, Nebraska doesn’t support a $&%# product anywhere near the way USC does. Take away a big chunk of those results at a minimum in the last 50 years, and we’d see the true Nebraska, but hell, even then they have about 15 conference championships, so cut that to 1 or 2, and 650 something wins, and see if they have butts in the seats. Even with the past several years, they are STILL a blue blood, which imo is anyone in the 900 club (or close).
http://www.winsipedia.com/nebraska/vs/south-carolina
http://www.winsipedia.com/nebraska/vs/south-carolina
Pre-virus, IIRC there weren't a lot of athletic programs consistently in the black, most either intermittently lost money or bled out every year. I think money wise we're in the upper echelon of programs making money.
Business-wise, it seems he's done a good job of running the Department, and financing sports that will never come close to break even. We have more men's and women's sports combined than many programs do.
This site, and others have become an opinion dumping ground where masses of people gripe nonstop about who our major men's coaches are, with little to no realistic opinion about who could do a better job.
Muschamp took over a program that was headed over a cliff, with a handful of decent players surrounded by a roster that had no business being in a SEC program. Our evaluation/recruiting efforts had become a joke. He basically stepped in and rebuilt the entire program from the ground up, I don't think there's any aspect of the program he didn't improve. And if you think about it, he had a similar job at UF, taking over a team full of renegades and trouble makers. I look at our current roster, and see the talent level improving. I think the numbers show he's signed about 25% of the total number of 5*s this program has ever had. Am I happy with the progress? No. But I think he's going to turn it around. And no one bitching about Muschamp from the day he was hired can even give a logical alternative they would've hired.
CFM is another popular target for the haters. Why? Because he yells at guys. Expects them to act responsibly. Expects them to play their role. His likely biggest fault? He's honest. He doesn't get down in the money mud with the AAU grifters. Would you be happy if we'd been like Clemson, and been linked on tape trying to buy Zion? Would you be happy if we had a renegade like Rick Pitino coaching?
Ray handed the program to Holbrook. No, it didn't work. But at the time, it was a homerun hire. Holbrook was rated one of the top recruiters and top assistants in the country. For whatever reasons it didn't work out. Maybe Holbrook wasn't as ready as he thought, or maybe following in the footsteps and replacing the guy who's now your boss, that won two Nattie's is a tougher job than some think.
Those who complain about fans supporting an inferior product are right. I don’t completely blame fans though. I think a big part of the problem is SEC revenue sharing. Our beloved school rakes in the money regardless of how well our teams perform.
Here’s a similar scenario from MLB 10 years ago. It’s sadly too familiar.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=5484947
Here’s a similar scenario from MLB 10 years ago. It’s sadly too familiar.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=5484947
CEO's aren't recruiting kids from the time they turn 14, and they typically don't lose out on someone they want because there isn't a Chick Fila in town.
I always love it when office managers and low level sales managers come on here and regurgitate the same "go gettum" pablum they saw on a required education video at work last week.
Ray's job isn't to make sure our budget finishes in the black. It's to field winning programs. Finishing in the black is just a happy byproduct.
If you honestly think we're headed in the right direction in our major men's sports, I sincerely hope you don't represent the majority of fans. If you do, we're never going to win championships there.
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We haven't won a conference championship in football in 51 years, ONE in 60 would be nice.
There used to be a big disparity in what HBC's and Assistants made from one program to another. Years ago it was common to see HBC's get poached and move from team to team.
Now, the money is more equal. If a HBC is even modestly successful at his job and he's being paid $5 million/year, why pack up and move for what might only be a modest raise?
Used to be promoting DC's and OC's was a no brainer way to procure a HBC, but now they're being paid more. Everyone keeps predicting Venables will leave, but why? He's making over $2 million per year, and doesn't have the headaches and pressure associated with Dabo's job. OC's and DC's can be choosy about taking a HBC job, because they're already set financially.
We paid market value for Muschamp.Might not have the results yet we all want, but no one can say Ray didn't ante up.
I can say Ray didn’t ante up. The schools that prioritize winning pay their coaches twice what we’re paying CWM. Making $6M per year is considerably more than making $3M per year.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aj...-million-2020/sYcxhljsieS3M0cB34fPvL/amp.html
My comment about being in the black was pointed at the comment that he wasn't qualified to run a multimillion dollar program, that he was in over his head.
I'm hoping we're headed in the right direction. I'm almost 60, seen a few highs and lots of lows throughout the years. I'm realistic enough to realize just how far in the dumper our football program was when Sr finally quit. I'm realistic enough to realize just how outdated every facet of our program was, to the point essentially every aspect needed to be updated. That takes time.
Am I happy with last football season? Hell no. But things are being addressed to hopefully fix it. I see a roster that's finally starting to build quality depth. I agree, time is running out for Muschamp to prove himself. But I'm not going to log on and complain every day since the day he was hired with no reasonable explanation of any other successful route we could've taken.
People complaining about coaching hires have no earthly idea who was talked to on back channels about jobs. Some people need to accept the fact that it just might be more difficult to attract candidates to openings here, other than a few good runs here and there we have little tradition in any of our men's sports.
People point to Clemson's success, but forget they kept trying to recreate Danny Ford in their football HBC's. They were on the verge of firing Dabo, stuck with him, now they're winning. In a lot of ways, what we're currently going through with football they already did...they were upgrading every aspect of the program, including hiring away a guy from Bama to bring every aspect of Saban's program there. All while we had a RC who hated making phone calls, dumped his kid's unwanted Halloween candy on a table instead of putting out food for visitors, and had a HBC who prided himself on not spending money on recruiting or evaluation.
They were patient, believed in Dabo's vision, caught some lucky breaks, and built a juggernaut.
We have impatient fans whose only vision is winning, have had some unlucky breaks, and we're struggling. We can fire Muschamp, but then we have to hire someone else who may or may not have instant success.
Get a clue!!
Muschamp imploded at UF, imploding here and will implode anywhere else, including Alabama. Mike Shula will look like a genius if WM gets to coach at Bama. Ray will never be a competent AD too. We are saddled with these two. The BOA is responsible.
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You had me right up to the part where you said we had impatient fans. I'm 57 and have been a diehard since 1968.
What advice would a super fan such as you give someone like me?
A lot of people like me here have been bitching about Tanner as the AD for several years and the Tanner supporters beat us down and tell us how stupid for thinking this way...
Tanner's supporters can't get past his two national championship trophies and give him pass at every turn...
We're not going to get rid of Tanner until the BOT put on their big boy pantie and make the move...
Tanner's supporters can't get past his two national championship trophies and give him pass at every turn...
We're not going to get rid of Tanner until the BOT put on their big boy pantie and make the move...
Yeah that's a true statement. No doubt. It's also true we haven't won a Super Bowl in our entire existence. Point being, our football history is mediocre enough without citing things that make it appear worse than it is. For roughly 20 of those 51 years we weren't even in a conference so winning a conference championship was impossible. We also had several very good teams during that time frame including a team that was 1 win away from playing for the NC. Notre Dame (one of the historically top programs in history & miles better than us) , for example, when was the last time they won a conference championship?
Try to enjoy the ride. Or be miserable. Your choice.
We absolutely do know most of the names that were talked to during Ray's desperate job search. More importantly, we know who he settled for. Comparing Muschamp to Dabo is pretty much laughable. Dabo had just one losing season in his second full year as HC. Other than that, he's only had one season where he won less than 10 -- his first.
Muschamp had a record of not being able to win at Florida, a football factory. And he just had his second losing season in his fourth year here. The fact that Clemson was going to fire Dabo for one mediocre season and we are making excuses for a proven loser of a coach says a lot about the difference in expectations in our fan bases.
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I agree with everything you said, except fan expectations. What can a fan do, honestly? Maybe some boosters can step in and offer to buyout a contract. There was talk of this last November, when news reported that Ray asked FSU how they managed Willie Taggart's buyout. Supposedly the news around this was wrong, and Ray never asked FSU.
Back to my question, what can a typical fan do, except vent on a sports message board? Maybe you're right, and if attendance goes down dramatically (after COVID-19 obviously), then the decision makers will be compelled to act.
Meanwhile, I'm here wondering why Ray doesn't say Win Anyway any more. It seems to me as if he's been given different priorities. I imagine it sucks to be AD for a University that doesn't care about winning. Not a Ray Tanner sympathizer, just giving my two cents.
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Exactly. Who hires a coach that no-one else wants and gives him an outlandish contract from the get go? I could understand if he was in high demand, but he wasn’t. He should have been given a modest salary and earned raises. Then he’s given new contracts with crazy buyouts that only benefit him and not the school. What kind of leverage did he have to negotiate that? None. It was almost like the BOT says “he let’s prove we are another big dog in the SEC and we can throw around big money with the best of them.” Pathetic.
IMO, the biggest issue is having two people in positions they shouldn't be. Champ should be a DC at a 5-star watering hole or a TV commentator; Tanner should be a baseball coach or retired....And it's the collision between the two (buyout price point, unbridled praise, etc.) is likely toxic to any true future success. Redneck politics.
I'm thinking mainly of those who have had high hopes for all the decades since we left the ACC (including the "almost" year of 1984), but point taken.
Very well said. I have been somewhat critical at times of Tanner and CWM. I like both as men and what they stand for. I have openly stated that I have wondered if Tanner would be better in a “Spurrier” type role as an ambassador. That was based on my frustration with the lack of wins in our 3 major men’s programs. I am very proud of the fact that we have run clean programs and the players seem to love their coaches.
My biggest gripe is the huge buyouts in the coaches contracts. Coach Staley should be our most protected coach as she has created a Championship level program. I can even see giving Frank a raise after the final four run. I even understand your analysis of CWM. But, why the huge buyouts? What in the heck was Tanner thinking?
