Thoughts on Penny @ Memphis?

[CarolinaCocky83]

Obviously we have our issues with Martin, but for comparison here is a linked article regarding Pennys frustration with the media that finally hit a head.
Keep in mind, as the article points out, they started @ 12 in the AP and had 2 top 5 recruits come in.
Just interesting to look at the landscape of college ball and the struggles that exist with keeping a roster and what that means.

Penny's thoughts: Lay off me, struggling Tigers

Asked whether he was embarrassed by Memphis' performance vs. SMU in what was a third straight loss, coach Penny Hardaway responded by saying: "I'm coaching really hard, my boys are playing really hard, I'm not embarrassed about nothing."

www.espn.com

 

[viennacocks]

Obviously we have our issues with Martin, but for comparison here is a linked article regarding Pennys frustration with the media that finally hit a head.
Keep in mind, as the article points out, they started @ 12 in the AP and had 2 top 5 recruits come in.
Just interesting to look at the landscape of college ball and the struggles that exist with keeping a roster and what that means.

Penny's thoughts: Lay off me, struggling Tigers

Asked whether he was embarrassed by Memphis' performance vs. SMU in what was a third straight loss, coach Penny Hardaway responded by saying: "I'm coaching really hard, my boys are playing really hard, I'm not embarrassed about nothing."

www.espn.com

I read about him this morning. In way over his head. Very unprofessional.

 

[Bud Wiser]

Penny only got hired because of his relationship with a few of the top players in AAU. Memphis did Tubby Smith wrong, so I’m fine with them losing a bunch of games. It was clear in his first season that he was just a recruiter and not a great coach. Another reason I hate them is that stupid blueish gray court they play on…only Oregon’s is worse.

 

[adcoop]

I read about him this morning. In way over his head. Very unprofessional.

I have watched that team a little bit and their struggles sort of illustrate the drawback in the reclassification trend. Emoni Bates has potential, but he is just not ready to play high-level college competition. The Duren kid is physically ready and has had more success, but he could use some seasoning as well. 16 and 17 year olds are generally not ready to play on this level no matter how talented they are. Also, I think Memphis has recruited based more on recruiting ranking above building a team. They have a lot of players that are similar in skill level. Thus, everyone is fighting for playing time and the guys that don't get it transfer out after a year. Penny is definitely inexperienced as a coach. However, the hire of Larry Brown was smart to help him through situations like this. I don't see this as a Clyde Drexler situation at Houston. I think Penny is interested in getting better as a coach. He is invested into his kids. Things just boiled over last night and he will learn from it.

 

[Neanderthal]

If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. He didn’t handle that well. I’ve watched them twice. Even if they didn’t have a full roster, they played poorly and undisciplined. I watched them beat VPI, they looked good, athletic, then get whipped by UCF, they had regressed, though they were missing a player or two. Penny is his own worst enemy. Puts added pressure on his team with some of his statements. I don’t pull for them. Don’t like what they did to Tubby, either. And Tubby is a gentlemen, a professional.

 

[cockymom2boys]

I'm kinda "over" coaches who act like they have no control over their emotions/responses.
I did hospital nursing for over 30 years. Do you know how many times in that 30 years I've had people be rude to me? Throw things? Spit? Be combative?
More than I care to remember. Do you know how many times I cursed back? ZERO.
And if I had cursed back, I wouldn't have had a job the next day.

 

[Neanderthal]

Penny’s team is 7th in the AAC at 9-8, in a conference of 11 teams (I just checked) and would not make the tourney if the field was selected today. No way the AAC gets but a few bids. After saying last year that they should be the favorite to win it all (then Wiseman quit the team), they didn’t even make the tournament though they played in the NIT and might have won it? He’s been there 4-5 years, long enough, and has not made the NCAA tourney yet. He ought to lay low with these excuses and predictions until he at least makes the tournament. Evidently, Larry Brown ain’t having much influence.

 

[vacock#]

Conclusion: it’s not easy to have a tournament team?

 

[Flameout12]

Penny for your thoughts?

 

[adcoop]

Penny’s team is 7th in the AAC at 9-8, in a conference of 11 teams (I just checked) and would not make the tourney if the field was selected today. No way the AAC gets but a few bids. After saying last year that they should be the favorite to win it all (then Wiseman quit the team), they didn’t even make the tournament though they played in the NIT and might have won it? He’s been there 4-5 years, long enough, and has not made the NCAA tourney yet. He ought to lay low with these excuses and predictions until he at least makes the tournament. Evidently, Larry Brown ain’t having much influence.

One of those years there was no tournament and he has had a winning conference record each of his first 3 years. He, also, won the NIT last year. This a touchy situation in Memphis. Penny is basketball royalty in Memphis whether you like it or not. You talk about our program not getting local buy in. Memphis will have some serious issues locally if Penny is not given every opportunity to succeed there. That is part of the reason for the profanity-laden tirade yesterday. He is soft-spoken and has built up a lot of equity in that town. He did it because he knew he could at this point and time. Now, I can't possibly see him getting the leeway that we have given Coach Martin here at USC, but Penny has a some runway here to turn it around.

 

[Jon Snow]

I don’t think I’m overreacting when I say Penny should face serious discipline over this. He signed on for the big leagues of college basketball. His being paid like one of the big boys, too. A reporter asking “have you lost faith that you can do what you set out to do” isn’t the sort of question that deserves a nasty, profane response.
We all know many players and coaches don’t like dealing with the media, unless it’s like the Clemson media that is tripping over each other to kiss Dabo’s rear. But, it’s part of the job. Quit making excuses, quit thinking you should be beyond reproach, quit calling legitimate questions “disrespect “ and do your job.

 

[Neanderthal]

He is catching he!! on the sports talk shows, not that it means anything. That’s what they do. They caught him at a bad moment. In front of the media, most coaches give the standard answers in those situations and get out of there. Don’t rock the boat.

 

[adcoop]

I don’t think I’m overreacting when I say Penny should face serious discipline over this. He signed on for the big leagues of college basketball. His being paid like one of the big boys, too. A reporter asking “have you lost faith that you can do what you set out to do” isn’t the sort of question that deserves a nasty, profane response.
We all know many players and coaches don’t like dealing with the media, unless it’s like the Clemson media that is tripping over each other to kiss Dabo’s rear. But, it’s part of the job. Quit making excuses, quit thinking you should be beyond reproach, quit calling legitimate questions “disrespect “ and do your job.

Yes, you are overreacting. Penny has not been in front of the media as much as a coach, but this is not his first rodeo with the media. Did it every night as a player having to answer to media across the country. Penny is usually soft-spoken and courteous. He is, also, in Memphis. Penny is going to get a pass there that some don’t think is fair. So, I think part of this was planned media attack to take some of the pressure off some of his players that are struggling. He will get some national media backlash, but that will be about it. This is a 24 hour sports news cycle story.

 

[ansoncock]

I'm kinda "over" coaches who act like they have no control over their emotions/responses.
I did hospital nursing for over 30 years. Do you know how many times in that 30 years I've had people be rude to me? Throw things? Spit? Be combative?
More than I care to remember. Do you know how many times I cursed back? ZERO.
And if I had cursed back, I wouldn't have had a job the next day.

I admire people with good self control. When I see someone being rude to another person, and a non-combative response, when the rude person leaves I compliment the peace maker when possible.

 

[Neanderthal]

Unless he does it again. Then everybody will think back and remember because the yakkers on the sports talk will recycle it. He can get by with it one time, particularly in Memphis, but another time would probably put him in a bad spot he might not survive. Language like that in a public gathering will offend some, and rightfully so.

 

[Neanderthal]

And if Penny don’t win big, that language will be held against him as a reason to move him out. If FM said that in a news conference / after game presser, that’d be it for him because his program is lacking.

 

[USCRBCOCK]

I'm kinda "over" coaches who act like they have no control over their emotions/responses.
I did hospital nursing for over 30 years. Do you know how many times in that 30 years I've had people be rude to me? Throw things? Spit? Be combative?
More than I care to remember. Do you know how many times I cursed back? ZERO.
And if I had cursed back, I wouldn't have had a job the next day.

100% spot on. Zero excuse for it. In 99% of other professions, he would be fired before he got out of the building. OR, he’s an arrogant ass. Either way, its inexcusable.

 

[Jon Snow]

Yes, you are overreacting. Penny has not been in front of the media as much as a coach, but this is not his first rodeo with the media. Did it every night as a player having to answer to media across the country. Penny is usually soft-spoken and courteous. He is, also, in Memphis. Penny is going to get a pass there that some don’t think is fair. So, I think part of this was planned media attack to take some of the pressure off some of his players that are struggling. He will get some national media backlash, but that will be about it. This is a 24 hour sports news cycle story.

Yeah, Hardaway has spent plenty of time with the media, probably more so as a player than coach. That makes it even less excusable to speak like this in a public setting. I’m not saying the AD should call him in and fire him (but I’d understand if he did). I’m saying a conversation needs to take place, and Lil Penny clearly needs to be reminded that he’s a State Employee and public figure. I don’t care about his language, but if I’m his AD I’d want to make certain that he understands this isn’t acceptable.

 

[USC ANDERSON]

I am old and a former sports writer. Use of obscene language (dropping the F bomb) at a post game presser is something I cannot wrap my arms around. How does anyone think that is remotely OK? Understand getting angry and showing frustration as a result of a loss but his reaction indicates something deeper. He may well be in over his head, knows it and can't handle it.

 

[Cock-a-Doo]

I just watched it - it comes off to me as definitely poor judgement in his use of the curse words but I wouldn’t burn him at the stake for this little outburst. I think some of the local media can get under the skin of these coaches (we saw that with Spurrier) and when the coach calls them on it the media is all up in arms like “we’re only doing our jobs!”
Unfortunately life isn’t fair either and most of us are held to a different standard at our jobs. If you were a nurse bringing in millions of dollars to your hospital and were part of the hospital’s marketing and had put that hospital on the map a little bit with your nursing skills 25 years prior then you might have a little more leeway given to you by the hospital - it’s just like that and it’s the reality of the world.

 

[Jon Snow]

I just watched it - it comes off to me as definitely poor judgement in his use of the curse words but I wouldn’t burn him at the stake for this little outburst. I think some of the local media can get under the skin of these coaches (we saw that with Spurrier) and when the coach calls them on it the media is all up in arms like “we’re only doing our jobs!”
Unfortunately life isn’t fair either and most of us are held to a different standard at our jobs. If you were a nurse bringing in millions of dollars to your hospital and were part of the hospital’s marketing and had put that hospital on the map a little bit with your nursing skills 25 years prior then you might have a little more leeway given to you by the hospital - it’s just like that and it’s the reality of the world.

It’s true the local media often got under Spurriers skin. If I recall correctly, he referred to one writer as “Negative Joe” and flat out refused entry/press pass to Ron Morris. That’s a little petty, but it’s far from dropping F-bombs in front of the media while pointing out how young your team is and how hard you work and how disrespected you feel.

 

[Cock-a-Doo]

It’s true the local media often got under Spurriers skin. If I recall correctly, he referred to one writer as “Negative Joe” and flat out refused entry/press pass to Ron Morris. That’s a little petty, but it’s far from dropping F-bombs in front of the media while pointing out how young your team is and how hard you work and how disrespected you feel.

Yeah I don’t disagree there is a large gap on how those 2 specifically handled things…it was very off-putting to me listening to it.
I guess I just realize there is a certain desensitization to some of this stuff. If anything, I think fans like it to a degree (gives people something to talk about like we all are here)

 

[adcoop]

I am old and a former sports writer. Use of obscene language (dropping the F bomb) at a post game presser is something I cannot wrap my arms around. How does anyone think that is remotely OK? Understand getting angry and showing frustration as a result of a loss but his reaction indicates something deeper. He may well be in over his head, knows it and can't handle it.

I think dropping the F bomb is not okay anywhere. However, there is a ton of hypocrisy in this thread. I have been in earshot of Coach Frank Martin tell players "Get the F out", You're a F'ing Bum, and "Sit the F down". Yet, people accept it because they are players who should just be grateful for having a scholarship. If we are so aghast about the "F Bomb" being hurled at a reporter, then we need to be aghast about it all the time. The coach is representing the university on the floor, right??? We tend to pick and choose our outrage.

 

[Neanderthal]

And Kyzyzewski and Pitino are even worse. Though K doesn’t say much anymore game day. Saves it for practice but doesn’t spare the audience. Pitino’s language is awful everywhere he goes.

 

[Jon Snow]

I think dropping the F bomb is not okay anywhere. However, there is a ton of hypocrisy in this thread. I have been in earshot of Coach Frank Martin tell players "Get the F out", You're a F'ing Bum, and "Sit the F down". Yet, people accept it because they are players who should just be grateful for having a scholarship. If we are so aghast about the "F Bomb" being hurled at a reporter, then we need to be aghast about it all the time. The coach is representing the university on the floor, right??? We tend to pick and choose our outrage.

“People accept it?” Frank is (deservedly) under fire from the fan-base…not specifically for his language (although I’ve seen it pointed out MANY times in here) but for directing it at players.
That said, there’s a big difference between a coach cursing during a game or practice, and that same coach cursing in a press conference. For the most part, society accepts that behavior in the course of athletics. Getting frustrated with your beat-writer and directing it his way? That’s totally different.
Also, is my memory shot or did Ray Tanner not publicly suspend Frank Martin for his court side language?

 

[Jon Snow]

And Kyzyzewski and Pitino are even worse. Though K doesn’t say much anymore game day. Saves it for practice but doesn’t spare the audience. Pitino’s language is awful everywhere he goes.

I sat behind the UK bench once as a USC student and was really surprised at Pitinos profanity. It didn’t bother or offend me, I just couldn’t believe a grown man would scream those words in public.

 

[bcaldw01]

I'm kinda "over" coaches who act like they have no control over their emotions/responses.
I did hospital nursing for over 30 years. Do you know how many times in that 30 years I've had people be rude to me? Throw things? Spit? Be combative?
More than I care to remember. Do you know how many times I cursed back? ZERO.
And if I had cursed back, I wouldn't have had a job the next day.

Ms, just know you have a very big suite in heaven......reserved for nurses only.....my mom was in and out of the hospital for about 4-6 months, until she passed at a hospice facility.......It was hell watching my alert and clear minded mother go through that ordeal....we held back her terminal prognosis for a while and was gut wrenching to break that news to her......God bless you.

 

[adcoop]

“People accept it?” Frank is (deservedly) under fire from the fan-base…not specifically for his language (although I’ve seen it pointed out MANY times in here) but for directing it at players.
That said, there’s a big difference between a coach cursing during a game or practice, and that same coach cursing in a press conference. For the most part, society accepts that behavior in the course of athletics. Getting frustrated with your beat-writer and directing it his way? That’s totally different.
Also, is my memory shot or did Ray Tanner not publicly suspend Frank Martin for his court side language?

It’s a big difference to you. People deserve to be spoken to with respect whether they be in the heat of an athletic contest or not. My Dad was a former high school basketball coach. He is from the old-old school where you don’t use curse words period. One of my most vivid memories was hanging around at a practice and dribbling on the side when I was about 6-7 years old. I lost control of the dribble and said “that damn ball”. My Dad was at least a half court away. He snatched me up and I got a belt whipping in front of the entire team. The players were trying to lie for me saying he didn’t say anything. You could do stuff like that in the 70s. I have never heard my Dad ever utter a curse word and he retired in the late 80’s. So, it can be done. Our society has just accepted that type of behavior especially with coaches on the amateur level.

 

[Jon Snow]

It’s a big difference to you. People deserve to be spoken to with respect whether they be in the heat of an athletic contest or not. My Dad was a former high school basketball coach. He is from the old-old school where you don’t use curse words period. One of my most vivid memories was hanging around at a practice and dribbling on the side when I was about 6-7 years old. I lost control of the dribble and said “that damn ball”. My Dad was at least a half court away. He snatched me up and I got a belt whipping in front of the entire team. The players were trying to lie for me saying he didn’t say anything. You could do stuff like that in the 70s. I have never heard my Dad ever utter a curse word and he retired in the late 80’s. So, it can be done. Our society has just accepted that type of behavior especially with coaches on the amateur level.

Just playing devils advocate here, but: ‘Dad was a great man who didn’t curse or tolerate it…but he’d beat his 6 year old in public.”

I’ve been coaching for 12 years now. I don’t curse at my players, but I do understand it goes on in many programs.

 

[adcoop]

You must be a tad younger. For those that grew up late 60s and 70s, getting a spanking in public was normal and is sort of my point. It’s not about what is right or wrong, but what we accept. My Dad, who is 86 now, admits it. He says all the time that they would lock him up if he came along now.

 

[Jon Snow]

You must be a tad younger. For those that grew up late 60s and 70s, getting a spanking in public was normal and is sort of my point. It’s not about what is right or wrong, but what we accept. My Dad, who is 86 now, admits it. He says all the time that they would lock him up if he came along now.

I’m 50. Got plenty of beatings, but not in public. Discipline at home is discipline/teaching. Discipline in public is “You have embarrassed me in front of people and I’m angry.”

 

[Macc Maine]

I mean of course he could handle it better, but to ask a coach is he embarrassed? Cmon that’s not too professional either. We have to remember that he’s dealing with young players not seniors and Jrs. He’s also haven’t been coaching too long so he should get some benefit of the doubt when it comes to his team record. He’s missing part of his team as well. Coach Cal, Tom Izzo, and Boeheim should be getting asked those questions more than Penny. Coach Cal pulls in the best talent every year and only have 1 ring. The other two coaches didnt win a ring in years. It’s a tough sport to win in is all I’m saying and those questions after tough losses shouldn’t be asked.

 

[Neanderthal]

Answers to those questions should be something in the realm of “Ridiculous. Ask a decent question. Next.” Now, the guy has nothing to write. But after Penny’s answer, he can write how the coach blew up because he was embarrassed. Be talking about how the coach lost his cool, how he fired him up with the question. To ignore some reporter’s question is the ultimate insult.

 

[Jon Snow]

I mean of course he could handle it better, but to ask a coach is he embarrassed? Cmon that’s not too professional either. We have to remember that he’s dealing with young players not seniors and Jrs. He’s also haven’t been coaching too long so he should get some benefit of the doubt when it comes to his team record. He’s missing part of his team as well. Coach Cal, Tom Izzo, and Boeheim should be getting asked those questions more than Penny. Coach Cal pulls in the best talent every year and only have 1 ring. The other two coaches didnt win a ring in years. It’s a tough sport to win in is all I’m saying and those questions after tough losses shouldn’t be asked.

You make some good points, but some I’d have to argue. This is Penny’s 4th season at Memphis. This is far from a program that was down-and-out when he took over. Memphis had been through the Calipari years, followed by Josh Pastner, and Tubby Smith. They’ve been on solid ground for a long, long time.
Asking a coach how he feels is unprofessional? I can’t agree (even if it was a leading question). As for Penny being an inexperienced coach or missing players? Ha! Too bad! Penny chose to tap himself in to the dirty AAU scene while he was a high school coach, and that’s why Memphis hired him. He wasn’t forced at gun-point to take a D1 job after only a few years as a high school coach.
As for Cal, Izziona, and Boeheim: you are right; those guys have “underperformed” the past few years. However, they have all won enough to get a few passes from the media and the public.
All that said: I’ve always liked Penny, and I think Memphis made a good bet by hiring him. As much as I liked Tubby Smith, Memphis wasn’t going to climb high under him. With Penny, you’re taking a gamble, but it is a good one.

 

[Macc Maine]

You make some good points, but some I’d have to argue. This is Penny’s 4th season at Memphis. This is far from a program that was down-and-out when he took over. Memphis had been through the Calipari years, followed by Josh Pastner, and Tubby Smith. They’ve been on solid ground for a long, long time.
Asking a coach how he feels is unprofessional? I can’t agree (even if it was a leading question). As for Penny being an inexperienced coach or missing players? Ha! Too bad! Penny chose to tap himself in to the dirty AAU scene while he was a high school coach, and that’s why Memphis hired him. He wasn’t forced at gun-point to take a D1 job after only a few years as a high school coach.
As for Cal, Izziona, and Boeheim: you are right; those guys have “underperformed” the past few years. However, they have all won enough to get a few passes from the media and the public.
All that said: I’ve always liked Penny, and I think Memphis made a good bet by hiring him. As much as I liked Tubby Smith, Memphis wasn’t going to climb high under him. With Penny, you’re taking a gamble, but it is a good one.

In sports it doesn’t matter what you won in the past. Them guys underperformed for years. I just dont think it’s a good question knowing how passionate coaches and players are about the game.

 

[Jon Snow]

In sports it doesn’t matter what you won in the past. Them guys underperformed for years. I just dont think it’s a good question knowing how passionate coaches and players are about the game.

It isn’t the reporter’s responsibility to consider how fragile a coach may be. These are professional adults dealing with professional adults.

 

[Macc Maine]

It isn’t the reporter’s responsibility to consider how fragile a coach may be. These are professional adults dealing with professional adults.

It’s respect. You can’t respect one coach and not the other. Did any reporter ask Kirby smart after the sec championship game was he embarrassed? No.

 

[ScWildthing61]

It’s true the local media often got under Spurriers skin. If I recall correctly, he referred to one writer as “Negative Joe” and flat out refused entry/press pass to Ron Morris. That’s a little petty, but it’s far from dropping F-bombs in front of the media while pointing out how young your team is and how hard you work and how disrespected you feel.

MoRon had that coming for years, the little prick!

 

[Macc Maine]

MoRon had that coming for years, the little prick!

So spurrier not giving him Ron entry in press is somehow better than cursing in a press? Oh wow

 

[ToddFlanders]

He should probably have held that in, but with that question, that reporter deserved to get yelled at. Is he embarrassed?!?! What a POS that reporter is.

I'm not a Penny fan at all, but these idiots with an outlet to spread their opinions need to be put in their place. They typically have no clue what's going on. Those who can't, report.