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What happened to the Carolina Basketball program???

You're actually wrong.
Boston University earned an automatic bid that year.

Liberty just came off a 30 win season.
Temple beat Mississippi State and Wichita State that same year.
Stony Brook won 24 games.
Illinois State was solid that year with wins over Tulsa, Ole Miss, and Valparaiso.

I'll concede Stetson and Wyoming. But the others are only cupcakes because you don't recognize their names.
Temple won a couple games but they did nothing in the American that year. I don’t even know what Conference Stony Brook is in. So, I don’t care if they won 24 games. We shouldn’t be losing to them. Illinois State, solid? So losing to solid teams in the Missouri Valley Conference is acceptable now? Those losses are major reasons why our Conference record gets no respect come tournament time. Martin fans want to talk accountability when it comes to the players, but they want the fanbase to treat him like some snowflake and throw out a million reasons why we can’t win. Even going so far to blame it on players being soft and not wanting to play defense for not coming here. However, I saw no defense from our guys last night. What is the excuse for that. We gave up over 100 points against Auburn, but Frank Martin is the defensive guru. Kind of looks like Will Muschamp’s defenses to me.
 
Temple won a couple games but they did nothing in the American that year. I don’t even know what Conference Stony Brook is in. So, I don’t care if they won 24 games. We shouldn’t be losing to them. Illinois State, solid? So losing to solid teams in the Missouri Valley Conference is acceptable now? Those losses are major reasons why our Conference record gets no respect come tournament time. Martin fans want to talk accountability when it comes to the players, but they want the fanbase to treat him like some snowflake and throw out a million reasons why we can’t win. Even going so far to blame it on players being soft and not wanting to play defense for not coming here. However, I saw no defense from our guys last night. What is the excuse for that. We gave up over 100 points against Auburn, but Frank Martin is the defensive guru. Kind of looks like Will Muschamp’s defenses to me.

Take care buddy.
 
Th
You're actually wrong.
Boston University earned an automatic bid that year.

Liberty just came off a 30 win season.
Temple beat Mississippi State and Wichita State that same year.
Stony Brook won 24 games.
Illinois State was solid that year with wins over Tulsa, Ole Miss, and Valparaiso.

I'll concede Stetson and Wyoming. But the others are only cupcakes because you don't recognize their names.
Three punch combination; nice. Exit the adcoop mouthpiece.
 
You're actually wrong.
Boston University earned an automatic bid that year.

Liberty just came off a 30 win season.
Temple beat Mississippi State and Wichita State that same year.
Stony Brook won 24 games.
Illinois State was solid that year with wins over Tulsa, Ole Miss, and Valparaiso.

I'll concede Stetson and Wyoming. But the others are only cupcakes because you don't recognize their names.
He's only looking at the names of the schools and relating it to small conferences like he would in football. There are plenty of schools that come out of non-P5 conferences that are very good in basketball. Gonzaga is always good and are the #1 team in basketball right now. You can't just look at what conference a team plays in and decide that they should be a cupcake.
 
He's only looking at the names of the schools and relating it to small conferences like he would in football. There are plenty of schools that come out of non-P5 conferences that are very good in basketball. Gonzaga is always good and are the #1 team in basketball right now. You can't just look at what conference a team plays in and decide that they should be a cupcake.

This happens to everytime the basketball team has a few losses; people who don’t watch college basketball besides the final South Carolina scores throwing in their hot takes
 
He's only looking at the names of the schools and relating it to small conferences like he would in football. There are plenty of schools that come out of non-P5 conferences that are very good in basketball. Gonzaga is always good and are the #1 team in basketball right now. You can't just look at what conference a team plays in and decide that they should be a cupcake.
Sorry guys, I don't care that those teams won their little conference and got an automatic bid to the tournament. Somebody has got to win those conferences. If we are ever going to do anything, teams like that cannot come into our building and get victories often. We didn't go to BU. We didn't go to Stony Brook. Those teams came into our building and walked away with victories. I don't care if they went on to win the Northeast Mid-Atlantic Conference or whatever. You guys say we are a good program. You notice I didn't mention the Wofford game or hold it against us. That was a good team and actually got a couple victories in the tournament. I am more of an NBA guy and don't care to keep up with KENPOM or NET Rankings, but I know good basketball and we haven't played it in 3-4 years. Can we play good stretches of basketball and beat a good team here and there. Yes. Can we sustain it and show any type of consistency. I am sorry guys. The answer is a big, fat no. Some may want to stay on this merry-go-round, hoping for it to change. Many are like me and ready to check out just like with the football program until Muschamp got let go.
 
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This happens to everytime the basketball team has a few losses; people who don’t watch college basketball besides the final South Carolina scores throwing in their hot takes
I watch every game even though I think it was a waste of two hours of my life many times after. I am just out on Martin. It is so bad that my fifteen year old who used to be right there with me comes in the room ever so often just to laugh at me for continuing to stick by what he calls the Lamecocks. That is my opinion. You have yours.
 
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I watch every game even though I think it was a waste of two hours of my life many times after. I am just out on Martin. It is so bad that my fifteen year old who used to be right there with me comes in the room ever so often just to laugh at me for continuing to stick by what he calls the Lamecocks. That is my opinion. You have yours.
My son shows more respect than that but I remember my nephews back in the 90s having that same attitude and actually being Clemson fans. Both are now die hard Gamecocks with football season tickets, they both live in Summerville or they’d probably have basketball tickets as well. These things go in cycles at a place like Carolina; you either develop the fortitude or you don’t.
 
My son shows more respect than that but I remember my nephews back in the 90s having that same attitude and actually being Clemson fans. Both are now die hard Gamecocks with football season tickets, they both live in Summerville or they’d probably have basketball tickets as well. These things go in cycles at a place like Carolina; you either develop the fortitude or you don’t.
You can say it's disrespectful, but it's really honest and I even have to laugh at it. He told me after the Georgia game that the Gamecocks would turn around and get blown out by Vanderbilt. I even had to laugh at it because I know he would be coming from practice or watching another game in his room to say "Told you". We go to or watch every game together except the Gamecocks. He just can't do it anymore and I can understand why.
 
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Getting out of the ACC which was the most stupid decision in college athletics. Dietzel was gonna make USC a FB powerhouse without having to deal with the ACC's academic restrictions.😂
Firing Jim Carlen was a close second.
 
Dave Odom was notorious for scheduling cupcakes in December, starting 12-0 and missing the tournament.

Martin has been notorious for losing to cupcakes in December. Also worth noting Odom had to deal with Florida during its peak and Kentucky twice a year each with the old divisional setup. Vandy was a good program back then too.

I like Frank, but let's be honest about the situation. Odom was not a bad coach at all.
 
Martin has been notorious for losing to cupcakes in December. Also worth noting Odom had to deal with Florida during its peak and Kentucky twice a year each with the old divisional setup. Vandy was a good program back then too.

I like Frank, but let's be honest about the situation. Odom was not a bad coach at all.
Never said he was.
 
Martin has been notorious for losing to cupcakes in December. Also worth noting Odom had to deal with Florida during its peak and Kentucky twice a year each with the old divisional setup. Vandy was a good program back then too.

I like Frank, but let's be honest about the situation. Odom was not a bad coach at all.
Overall, the SEC is MUCH better than it was when Odom was coaching for us
 
That shit pot athletic director that went to A&M hired Martin when he could've hired Gregg Marshall...
Man can you imagine the abuses and racist language Marshall would have had with the stress at this job? He would have probably choked a walk on to death
 
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Devan Downey going berserk John Wall and Demarcus Cousins has to be up there.

Devan Downey? I think he played under Darren Horn and we did beat KY in Columbia and I think they were ranked #1 at the time.

I'm thinking back in 1996 - 1997 season with BJ McKie and Larry Davis.

I will give the team credit for beating #6 Florida last night. in the last three games going 2-1

Beat UGA, & Florida, losing to Vandy. It feels goo now, but the bigger pitcher and future of this program isn't that good. Tanner must be smiling this morning and looking to extend Frank's contract soon...
 
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Getting out of the ACC which was the most stupid decision in college athletics. Dietzel was gonna make USC a FB powerhouse without having to deal with the ACC's academic restrictions.😂
Firing Jim Carlen was a close second.
And third was firing George Felton.

3 bad decisions that changed the trajectory of SC men's sports.
 
USC basketball has been lost for years, decades. With the exception of one three week hot streak with a bubble team that nobody saw coming in their wildest dreams. Some decent days in the old Metro. A couple of good years under Fogler, but then they melt down in the tourney. The hole USC finds itself in was actually created by Paul Dietzel decades ago. He was able to convince the powers that be that the only way USC could be elite in football was to leave the ACC because of their academic recruiting restrictions at the time. Frank tried to tell anyone that would listen that pulling out of the ACC would kill the basketball program. And he was correct.
McGuire didn't publicly fight leaving the ACC because he thought the program was on solid enough ground, and the Athletic Department needed to at least put on a public display of unity (McGuire & Dietzel did not get along; IMO, when Rex Enright retired circa 1960, USC should have hired an AD who did not coach any varsity teams and made that a policy going forward).

Of course, it took only a year or two of independence for it to be obvious to anyone truly paying attention that leaving the ACC definitely hurt the men's basketball program (no varsity women's sports were around at that time).

It's important to note that Roche & Owens would not have considered enrolling at USC if we were not in the ACC. And USC lost many potential blue-chip recruits during our years in the wilderness.

I had a bad feeling when the 1971-72 hoops schedule was released and Clemron was the only ACC school on it. When the Tar Holes took us to the woodshed during the 1972 dance, my gut told me we were on our way down.

The irony of the whole situation is that the fan base got riled up to leave the ACC only because of the basketball discord. Had McGuire taken us to the top of the ACC without a chip on his shoulder, I think Dietzel would have had a hard time convincing anyone to go independent.

Of course, none of this explains the current success of the women's program. The OP did not specify which basketball program in his/her original message, which is why I'm addressing both programs.

The bottom line, I believe is this. Your school has to have an excellent coach in a high-profile competitive conference to be successful. Pretty obvious. By excellent, I mean a coach who is a good recruiter, a good teacher, and a good mentor, someone who many would want to play for, and their parents would be thrilled to have coach their daughter/son. We are very fortunate to have Dawn Staley. Sadly, not so much with Frank II.
 
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There's something seriously wrong with your brain if you think we should have stayed in the ACC.
 
Temple won a couple games but they did nothing in the American that year. I don’t even know what Conference Stony Brook is in. So, I don’t care if they won 24 games. We shouldn’t be losing to them. Illinois State, solid? So losing to solid teams in the Missouri Valley Conference is acceptable now? Those losses are major reasons why our Conference record gets no respect come tournament time. Martin fans want to talk accountability when it comes to the players, but they want the fanbase to treat him like some snowflake and throw out a million reasons why we can’t win. Even going so far to blame it on players being soft and not wanting to play defense for not coming here. However, I saw no defense from our guys last night. What is the excuse for that. We gave up over 100 points against Auburn, but Frank Martin is the defensive guru. Kind of looks like Will Muschamp’s defenses to me.
Silver haired nut will literally turn a blind eye to everything and just rah rah rah. The place could be burning to the ground and he would say that it felt nice and warm. LOL
 
I watch every game even though I think it was a waste of two hours of my life many times after. I am just out on Martin. It is so bad that my fifteen year old who used to be right there with me comes in the room ever so often just to laugh at me for continuing to stick by what he calls the Lamecocks. That is my opinion. You have yours.
Thats the scary thing to me...times are different and we are losing a whole new generation of fans. You have to be elite now to keep fans from being distracted by all the technological advancements around us. Clemson and others have actually took the technology and embraced it with a huge staff of tech whiz kids while we haven't as far as I know. That's the most frustrating thing about Carolina...we are always behind in literally everything.
 
Two things.

1. Playing to level of lower graded teams
2. Consistency

Loop those two things together and you get what we have. For most years, the team has finished in the top half of the SEC. That is better than average, but then when you throw in the two things I mentioned, the overall record hasn't got us into the tourney.
 
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After making it to the final four, we fell off the cliff again after climbing up for years...

Is it the coaching from Frank? Assistant coaches problems? Players who think they are good and end up falling on their faces?

Just trying to put a finger on this basketball program that should have taken step up moving up after that great run...

I think we could have hired George Glymph after George Felton was fired....

Maybe a we should hire a good local high school coach and rebuild this program with local players???

The answer is simple.....

Frank Martin is a good guy and a pretty good coach but today's above average and elite players don't want to play for him. A good coach without good players will never win consistently. Period.

Add to that Tanner gave him a Muschamp-style high $ buyout and here we are.
 
We had a head coach (Spurrier) bragging about not working half as hard as Saban and an AD (Tanner) on 107.5 bragging about having the lowest recruiting budget in the SEC. Who's bragging now?
 
True that, but do give him credit for acknowledging the 100th anniversary of the MBB program, and inviting many of McGuire's players back to campus as part of the year-long celebration.

Yeah....that one Saturday afternoon was great. I was there.
 
The answer is simple.....

Frank Martin is a good guy and a pretty good coach but today's above average and elite players don't want to play for him. A good coach without good players will never win consistently. Period.

Add to that Tanner gave him a Muschamp-style high $ buyout and here we are.

Maybe we should rethink players not wanting to play for CFM. Could it be that some people don’t see USC as a school they want to attend? Remember the movie “Rudy” and how there were people who yearned to go to Norte Dame? That’s true about a lot of schools where family and friends influence their decisions. We need to build that desire to play at USC back up to where it was in the 1970s. (I graduated in 1972). Looks like we are trying for football and I think we may have that in WBB.
 
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Maybe we should rethink players not wanting to play for CFM. Could it be that some people don’t see USC as a school they want to attend? Remember the movie “Rudy” and how there were people who yearned to go to Norte Dame? That’s true about a lot of schools where family and friends influence their decisions. We need to build that desire to play at USC back up to where it was in the 1970s. (I graduated in 1972). Looks like we are trying for football and I think we may have that in WBB.

Well, I would argue that recruitment for college athletics is miles different today from the 70's. Thats over 40 years ago and young people and the college athletics landscape has changed dramatically. For WBB, I think those young ladies don't necessarily come to Carolina from a strong desire to wear the garnet and black. They come for 2 reasons....1) Dawn Staley and 2) we are an elite program. Football is different too because there are many more players and coaches. It seems like in college basketball, having a head coach and staff that kids really want to play for can yield dividends...even at schools with mediocre basketball traditions. You can see this currently right in the SEC at UT, Auburn, Alabama.

Schools have to capitalize on what they can capitalize on. We don't have a successful mens basketball tradition. Period. So that will not be a draw for high level recruits to come here. That means we better have coaches they want to play for and elite facilities. I am not sure we currently have either of those things.
 
There is a lot of peer pressure among high school basketball players. South Carolina is not a sexy school to attend, never has been, and coaching/facilities/blah blah are not necessarily prime reasons.
 
Dave Odom was notorious for scheduling cupcakes in December, starting 12-0 and missing the tournament.

I don’t know if that’s fair. He did schedule multiple games with Winthrop, Southern Cal, Temple, Kansas, Providence & NC State. None of those were really push overs at that time.

The reality is most power conference college basketball programs have a bunch of tune up games prior to conference.
 
Dave Odom’s issue was he got mauled in the SEC and the conference was very poorly looked upon at the national level literally until the year we made the final four
 
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Dave Odom’s issue was he got mauled in the SEC and the conference was very poorly looked upon at the national level literally until the year we made the final four

How can you forget how he taught the weave?
 
I always look back at how disrespectful we treated McGuire at the end. Very disrespectful. I remember talking to All McGuire on an elevator at the old Carolina Inn. He was in town for a broadcast.

He didn't like that USC "was monkeying with Frank's contract". Word spread fast and we would spend the next 40 years in hoops purgatory.

We had alienated folks like Al McGuire but more importantly we alienated all of Frank's players. Right then we had lost continuity. Sons of McGuire players wouldn't give us a whiff (Dunleavy, Gregor and others).

Think if we had shown McGuire some respect instead of putting out vicious rumors about him. We would have had some continuity and influence. Instead we ended up with what I consider the symbol of USC hoops decline. Getting dominated by Clemson of all teams. A team we had a commanding series advantage over; once won 11 in a row against. Since that time they have dominated us.

Well, that's what I think happened TO USC hoops. We never recovered.
 
I always look back at how disrespectful we treated McGuire at the end. Very disrespectful. I remember talking to All McGuire on an elevator at the old Carolina Inn. He was in town for a broadcast.

He didn't like that USC "was monkeying with Frank's contract". Word spread fast and we would spend the next 40 years in hoops purgatory.

We had alienated folks like Al McGuire but more importantly we alienated all of Frank's players. Right then we had lost continuity. Sons of McGuire players wouldn't give us a whiff (Dunleavy, Gregor and others).

Think if we had shown McGuire some respect instead of putting out vicious rumors about him. We would have had some continuity and influence. Instead we ended up with what I consider the symbol of USC hoops decline. Getting dominated by Clemson of all teams. A team we had a commanding series advantage over; once won 11 in a row against. Since that time they have dominated us.

Well, that's what I think happened TO USC hoops. We never recovered.

Sounds like the ole "chicken curse", except I am not superstitious.
 
I always look back at how disrespectful we treated McGuire at the end. Very disrespectful. I remember talking to All McGuire on an elevator at the old Carolina Inn. He was in town for a broadcast.

He didn't like that USC "was monkeying with Frank's contract". Word spread fast and we would spend the next 40 years in hoops purgatory.

We had alienated folks like Al McGuire but more importantly we alienated all of Frank's players. Right then we had lost continuity. Sons of McGuire players wouldn't give us a whiff (Dunleavy, Gregor and others).

Think if we had shown McGuire some respect instead of putting out vicious rumors about him. We would have had some continuity and influence. Instead we ended up with what I consider the symbol of USC hoops decline. Getting dominated by Clemson of all teams. A team we had a commanding series advantage over; once won 11 in a row against. Since that time they have dominated us.

Well, that's what I think happened TO USC hoops. We never recovered.
That's what I heard as well. What we needed was a smooth transition from McGuire to Cremins. Oh, and we should have stayed in the ACC.
 
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