At some point if you have a mutual fund that continues to have average to less than average results, compared to similar funds, you need to realize that it's "potential" is not being realized.
Yes/No question
- Thread starter sclawman77
- Start date
Yes.. I would like to have him back, but would not be surprised if he is not. After all, I bought season tickets for the first time since Darrin Horn drove me away, thinking that we were building something. Still think we are, but we need "the guy" to step up and make plays.
No one has, consistently, especially since Minaya out again..
No one has, consistently, especially since Minaya out again..
Minaya was a really important piece. We miss the hell out of him he was one of our best rebounders and he could get hot.. Good defender too.. I love Keyshawn but he is no threat to score from the outside. LSU was daring him to shoot from outside.
Yes. South Carolina basketball is respected again and it’s because of Frank Martin. The South Carolina Gamecocks were in the FINAL FOUR for crying out loud!! When has that EVER happened before? And Carolina should have been in the tournament the year before that too. The losses this week and the two really bad ones that everyone points to, coaching didn’t lose those games. And guess what, there are wins they have that coaching had nothing to do with. I like this team, yes they frustrate the hell out of me at times( last night I said they look like the bad news bears sometimes), but they fight, they never quit, they’re tough, and they get that from their coach. I like that coach a lot, and I’m glad he coaches my team...
Getting to the point, he's like the soccer coach. Mediocre results but full pay checks. He needs players and seem to never get them. So no.
It would be really close call. Only fire him if you've quietly courted and zeroed in on a high quality, viable alternative.
Allowing Ray to put his "we're hiring" sign out post dismissal is a recipe for disaster.
Allowing Ray to put his "we're hiring" sign out post dismissal is a recipe for disaster.
Frank threw away the first half at Miss State by running inverted motion for guard drives and reverse posts for his front court. State simply dropped three guys to the paint and dared Carolina to shoot from 3. The results were constant turnovers that gave State easy scores and wasted possessions for Carolina. Martin adjusted to curl action and more spread looks later, but they were chasing the game at that point. Bad strategy. Stubborn.
Against LSU he pressed with his guards in man and tried to force LSU off the 3 point line. It was a bad idea as his guys got broken off the dribble. He should have realized they couldn’t hang, and not press guys hard at the 3 point line. He wanted to be over aggressive and was burned on tight man and his traps. They did better in the zone and sagging back when they were in man. They ran a lot of the same inverted motion stuff he always does, but the teams are just not really guarding Cousinard or Bryant, content to see if those guys can finish at the rim in traffic. Both guys struggle.
It’s all coaching. Some good, some bad with Martin. He gets his guys to play hard, which is half the battle in college. But his offense yields too many contested mid and long 2s, contested shots at the rim against multiple rim protectors. And his guys never shoot free throws well. On defense he’s always aggressive, even when he should be passive. They over rotate and switch when it’s not necessary and foul too much.
I like CFM. I like his tenacity as a coach and his raising boys to young men off the court. I like that he has sped up the offense this year to try and take advantage of our athleticism while still playing hard nosed defense.
My yes would be contingent upon replacing an assistant coach with a younger and hungry recruiter. We need to lock down the homegrown SC talent.
My no would be no postseason play.
Unless we get to NCAA or a deep NIT run (if we end up there), there has to be some changes on staff.
My yes would be contingent upon replacing an assistant coach with a younger and hungry recruiter. We need to lock down the homegrown SC talent.
My no would be no postseason play.
Unless we get to NCAA or a deep NIT run (if we end up there), there has to be some changes on staff.
The common theme for the past few years has been: If ____ and if _____ and if _____ then we should be good next year!
So what has prevented him from uping it at this point? In fact one could argue the final 4 should have given us a bump in recruiting, which it didn't. Tell me how recruiting is all of a sudden going to turn around under him?
I'm not sure exactly what this means. Yes, one would think the Final Four run would have given us immediate credibility as a program. But where did it get us?Our recruiting never got a Final Four "bump" and, assuming we don't make the tournament this year, we followed up that magical season with three straight mediocre seasons.
I like Frank as a man, I think he tries to run a clean program, and I believe he wants to instill character in his players. If that is the "respect" you are talking about, then OK, but if "respect" means being thought of as a relevant college basketball program, then I don't think we're there.
My problem with Martin is he lost the Boston and Stetson games to prove a point. That is the major reason we are missing the NCAAs. It's not like we're playing in the ACC we should make the tournament more that once in eight years.
Essentially at a coin toss, for me. 50/50 based on the overall picture. It depends on how we finish. It is conceivable that if we were injury free during the stretch, we would not be sweating the bubble right now and this thread would be a mute point. We still have a shot at 20 wins and that's not good enough for some. How quickly the 10-21 record of our LAST coach is forgotten. Exactly how many times have we reached the final four. After inheriting a 10-21 team, no less. The final four team was laden with upperclassmen recruited by Frank to replace a 10-21 team. The results of that final four appearance are just showing up now. This team is young and inexperienced, except for Kotsar, who has blossomed this year. Many of our losses this year were due to injuries and reliance on inexperienced players. Our errors are fixable (bad passes, missed assignments, free throw shooting) with playing time and coaching. We have talent on the cuspice of "getting it". I think this team will blossom next year, early. Between this and knowing Tanner's inability to hire anyone remotely as good a Frank, has me leaning for one more year and a big dance appearance for Frank to keep his job.
If I was asked this question last year, then probably no, I didn't see enough last year.
If I was asked this question last year, then probably no, I didn't see enough last year.
No. It doesn't seem much to ask to just be a Top-68 program more than once a decade. If the program hasn't been built in his first 8 years, it ain't being built. Find someone that does a lot more with a lot less as Martin's successor.
And if his buyout is too much for us to let him go, it's time for the target to be placed on those that continue to give underperforming coaches insurmountable payouts.
And if his buyout is too much for us to let him go, it's time for the target to be placed on those that continue to give underperforming coaches insurmountable payouts.
Again, its 7 years. This one is not over (yet),. Did you expect us to get to the final four in 2017? Don't close the door until it is closed. If we make a run in the SEC tournament and win, then its two tourny appearances in eight years. Do you fire him then? If we reach the final four again, do you fire him? Just wait until we know where we stand, before making decisions that could come back to bite you, however unlikely.
You are absolutely right, we don’t deserve him.
We deserve better. I honestly can not think of one reason he should stay if we don’t make the NCAAs this year. The final four was great, but we havent done squat since. The two previous seasons after the final four we are under .500 vs D1 schools. Honestly what has he done since then to keep his job?
This program is in a much better place now than it was 8 years ago, and IMO, is on track to get even better. Carolina had less talent than any team they beat during the Final Four run, and according to most, have less talent than most of the good teams they play and beat even now. So honestly, who has done more with less than Frank Martin?
It's not about what he's done since the FF or before the FF. It's the culture he brings. The respect he brings. He inherited a train wreck from Horn. You do realize we've won more SEC games in the last 4 years compared to any 4 years stretch, by far.
Not only that, we got snubbed from the tournament in 2016.
Do we get a banner for that? The only culture I have seen him bring is the “he’s the best we can do so we should accept it” mentality. Respect is great, if were we winning and making the post season.
If you say so. He is in a results based business, and he is not getting results. Sad thing is people let their fandom of Martin cloud their love for the university. Bottom line is Carolina fans have over inflated this myth of Martin. Yes we have sucked in the past, but that is the past. Martin is what he is, and he isn’t going to change. No Dance, it’s time to move on. Eight is enough.
No, sir. I just value love and respect over banners and bragging rights.
No. I wanted him fired after last season. The pumpers insisted we give him just ONE MORE year......... (like NOBODY could see what was coming).....and so here we are.....same stuff different year....including the pumpers (who support and encourage quitting and mediocrity btw) saying he just needs ONE MORE year.
Pathetic joke. No. No. No.
Pathetic joke. No. No. No.
This team does not have the talent that our Final Four team had. I hope they make me eat every single word but they won't make the tournament. We have nothing to show for post-Final Four life. Kids that are championship-caliber or 1-and-done caliber are still not choosing USC for multiple reasons. I'm still not sure how we let so much talent in SC escape but I know for a fact all the barking on the sideline doesn't help (told this by more than one recruit). The Bob Knight-esque coaching tactics aren't as effective with kids in 2020 (especially when you're not winning at an elite level).
I just can't justify paying someone almost 3 million dollars a year to get us to the postseason 14% or 29% of the time
I can agree with this but we seem to either have gone backwards or been stuck since our epic run. Maybe Martin is our Moses. Can get us to the point where we can visualize our potential and the promised land but just won't be the person to enjoy the promised land with us. If that's the case, we gotta go find our Joshua.
