Do y'all still want to get rid of Frank?
- Thread starter Pee Dee Dawg
- Start date
Toss up. If not for a miracle two week stretch, that nobody saw coming two years ago, pretty sure the majority opinion would be that USC needs to try to move on. I think Frank is a good coach. I think his players love him and he relates well with many of them. But the question is recruiting. And a little end of the year winning streak against SEC bottom feeders shouldn't change any points if view. Yea, he got some folks hurt this year. But do we just get more of the same next year where everything seems to be a work in progress? And replacing Silva is a much more daunting task than replacing anyone lost to injury this year. Do I think a change should be made this year? No. But next year has to show improvement. Not be wandering in the abyss in the OOC schedule. Without that debacle USC is in the tourney. Maybe beat Clemson. If it is another mediocre year, then Ray has to decide if there is someone out there that can energize the recruiting process and not make the program so dependent on projects that take two, three, years to develop. And Ray has to decide if USC can be a more consistent basketball power, or if struggling to be a bubble team most years is as good as the program can be. It's all about recruiting and talent.
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USC fans think you can just find a coach that would want to coach here, and he would be successful. Not sure what part of our history gives them that idea.
Frank Martin has been disappointing only in that there has been a lot of attrition during his time. Recruiting hasn't been great, but the future looks good in my opinion, and he has created a good foundation.
Frank Martin has been disappointing only in that there has been a lot of attrition during his time. Recruiting hasn't been great, but the future looks good in my opinion, and he has created a good foundation.
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If it were up to me, I'd fire him today. I get so sick of reading this nonsense about who will we hire that's better. The point is you must demand better. If your HBC is not competing for conference championships and making the NCAA tournament most years, he is not good enough. In seven seasons Frank has never come close to winning the SEC championship. The one final four might be the biggest two week anomaly in hoops lore. You will never hire the right coach by hanging on to one that fails over and over.
What USC fans want is a coach that can take them to the dance every year or most every year. Is Frank that coach? I am willing to give him next year but next year is a must to make the playoffs.
Martin is a good man but for whatever reason he has not consistently won and that is what every program wants.
Martin is a good man but for whatever reason he has not consistently won and that is what every program wants.
Not sure how Frank's current status at Carolina has anything to do with the history of the program decades and decades ago (or how that means we can't have a successful program). Comes down to wins and losses and postseason participation.
1 tournament in 8 years had an assistant under the FBI investigation. He mouths off on the sidelines and complains about fans in PCs. I am not saying Fire Frank but it isn't as if there aren't reason some folks shouldn't think thjs
One issue I see is that some portion if the fan base reacts to the thought of particular ways with Frank is that they view it that he is setting a good for foundation. Next year will be his what, 8th year? That argument was fine 2-3 years after he took over from Horn, but not after this long. I have tried to look at his tenure from the standpoint of that he did take over a dumpster fire from Horn. Did the building, and did get to a final four, no matter how fluky that little run seems. But by all factors one would figure that that run should have energized the program on the recruiting trail. And now is about the time it should really be paying off. If not, then one has to decide if USC wants to demand a consistent good basketball program, or be satisfied that Frank will develop lesser talent on the recruiting trail and hit a spot where the program is pretty good every three-four years. With the history at USC it just makes me wonder if many haven't gotten used to mediocrity and are satisfied as long as the program just isn't embarrassing
Honestly I think our freshman class has been great. I understand not all of them weren't rated very high but I think the results speak for themselves. Lawson looks an like NBA talent. Keyshawn Bryant is also pretty damn good. TJ Moss looks good. Cousinard we dont know but by all accounts looks good. So to me that final four run paid dividends if one honestly rates our freshman class.
It's also true I'm an adamant supporter of FM. So I get some may dismiss my opinion. Honestly I dont think anyone deserves a 'blank check' but i believe firing would be a disaster
It's also true I'm an adamant supporter of FM. So I get some may dismiss my opinion. Honestly I dont think anyone deserves a 'blank check' but i believe firing would be a disaster
A lot of these posters that claim we’ve done nothing recruiting wise since the Final Four forget that most top basketball commits for 2017-2018 had already committed BEFORE our final four run. Therefore this is really the first class Martin has been able to take advantage of the Final 4 run.
As mentioned by the above poster we brought in Bryant and Lawson who have performed as well as any freshmen in the league. Moss and Couisiard will be an upgrade. We have a lot of returnees that will continue to develop. The future of USC men’s basketball is as good as any men’s program we have.
I don't even see a great foundation being built. 2 of top 3 scorers will be leaving, the PG is gone , and one of the school's best defensive guys are gone.
Yes, Lawson looks like a Star but as we have seem with guys like Downey or BJ his senior year 1 star doesn't get it done
Question is on those recruits. Some better than others, but who of the people we need to beat did we actually beat for those recruits? UT's recruiting just continues to get better. Kentucky isn't recruiting anyone we are, and whether one likes Cal's methods or not, he manages to pull a bunch of egos together every year for a top level team. Heck, Crean down at UGA is set for a great recruiting year with a commitment from a 5 star. And all of these guys can coach. It ain't rocket science. Somewhere along the line talent always wins out.
Frank Martin has won 4 games in the NCAA tournament, which equals the total number of NCAA tournament wins by all other coaches at SC combined in our history.
What's a disaster? Missing the tournament every year but 1?
ONE TOURNAMENT APPEARANCE in an era where 68 teams make it.
Zero tournament wins in the last 45 years prior to Frank.
Points I agree with: many top players had already committed at the time of the FF run. Lawson and Bryant have performed very well.
Points I think are questionable, at best: Moss and Cousiard will be upgrades. (I hope they will. But we've seen pretty much nothing to make this judgement. The jury is still out.) The future of USC men's Basketball is as good as any men's program we have. (Again, I hope..and I hope next season isn't filled with discussions of how hard it is to replace Silva and Gravett.)
Points you ignored: While many fans were/are frustrated by recruiting results after the FF run, the in-state results have been most frustrating and plenty of those were decisions the kids made after the FF run. The year of the run, we missed on Jalek Felton (no big loss), Devonte Shuler (Frank really seemed to want him), and Nicholas Claxton. In 2018, we missed on Zion (not much chance, here), Aaron Nesmith, and DJ Burns. This year, we missed on Josiah James, Juwan Gary, and Malcolm Wilson.
If Frank can't consistently keep the cupboard stocked, he won't consistently make the NCAA tourney. I don't much care WHERE the players come from, but it seems MOST teams build in one of two ways: load up when you have in-state talent OR become a regional or national recruiting program. We've done neither, so far.
If 68 teams had of made it in back in the day we would've more than likely had numerous elite 8s and possibly even a NC. Lets not be stupid and compare this era of everyone making it in to the 1 team max per conference from McGuire's era.
The tournament expanded to 64 teams in 85 and we didn’t win a single game in it until Frank. The fact is Frank took this team to its only Elite 8 and Final Four appearances ever. Frank has assembled a very good looking bunch of Freshman and has won inspite of being severely undermanned due to injury. We finished 4th in the SEC and have a double bye in the tournament. Better days are ahead and there aren’t any blue blood coaches dieing to switch to SC that would do any better than what we have, so quit your bitching and enjoy the SEC tournament.
In the old days you couldn't be in the tournament unless you won your conference tournament championship.
Frank Martin will be at South Carolina for a while, as long as he doesn't get a nice offer from a better program. People should realize the good coach they have and cheer up.
And I think this manner of thinking is the problem. Understand your point, and appreciate the fact that Frank has won more NCAA games than anyone for decades. But let's face facts. That was a two week hot streak nobody saw coming. USC was sort of on the bubble at the SEC tourney. But is the fan base supposed to be satisfied with one great two week run while doing little else the other years? Are we convinced that there is a ceiling on success in basketball that is by and large mediocre? If so, let's dump the huge salary for a basketball coach and cut the pay in half. If Frank is happy with that, fine. If not, I'm sure somebody like Mike Young at Wofford would love to make 1 mil a year. Take the difference and out it into the football program
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anon_n4c0cp5zhdxn7
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Funny how the narrative has changed a bit but the plot is still the same, some people just flat out do not want Martin here. Kind of reminds me of politics, as soon as an election is over, the losing party/voters turn into Attack Mode. They'll dismiss anything positive or improving and relentlessly fixate on something (anything) negative in an attempt to prove they were not wrong. I'm just glad the ever changing "talking points" have moved on from "He gives mean looks to his players". Now I see "1 tournament in 7 years" is the current one being parroted.
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anon_n4c0cp5zhdxn7
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We were 12-6 in SEC play that year. Not sure what the rationale is to discount that too but I'm sure there is one. I think we were 11-7 in SEC play the year before.
At least we dont hear about Gregg Marshall all the time anymore
Its year 8 after the election.Funny how the narrative has changed a bit but the plot is still the same, some people just flat out do not want Martin here. Kind of reminds me of politics, as soon as an election is over, the losing party/voters turn into Attack Mode. They'll dismiss anything positive or improving and relentlessly fixate on something (anything) negative in an attempt to prove they were not wrong. I'm just glad the ever changing "talking points" have moved on from "He gives mean looks to his players". Now I see "1 tournament in 7 years" is the current one being parroted.
Look fellas, the three of us are pretty much "inline" 99.9999% of the time in regards to our opinion(s) and overall feelings of our fine University as far as both academic and athletic issues are concerned. Heck, we're all on the same page so to speak. But fellas, I believe Frank is gonna be OK in the long run. We'll see what we'll see of course, but for some reason I believe Frank is gonna be successful for us in the long run!
WADR, and JMHOFWIW!!
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anon_n4c0cp5zhdxn7
Guest
In terms of basketball, we are in the long run now.
Since joining the SEC 28 years ago we have finished above .500 in the conference 6 times. Of the 6 Frank owns 3 of those in the last 4 years.
Man Im driving. That was simply a "quiky" type reply to the other two guys. Do forgive me for the repetitivess of "the long run" reference. My point was/is from this point forward in regards to Frank extending his success.
TEHOFWIW
Truth bomb. And to add to that further, in McGuire's day, our Final Four team would have been excluded.
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