I suppose you could take that either good or bad. Good that he realizes after last year the program needed a total reset and not just minor adjustments. Bad that in his 10th season, the program needs a total reset.
Frank Martin: we've "hit the reset button completely"
- Thread starter GarnetBeamer
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It takes a man to admit when something he is in charge of failed and to say they are working and excited to fix it. We have had other coaches who have never admitted something was wrong (Muschamp, Holbrook) and kept doing the same thing the same way every day and never seeing anything wrong nor needing change. I freely admit to being a supporter of Frank and hope he gets it right. He at least "gets it".
I'm not sure. Muschamp was constantly admitting things weren't working. I don't know how many times he said "we've gotta do a better job as coaches" or something similar. It became white noise after a while.
Agreed. Muschamp simply struggled to fix it. Frank doesn't have much of a choice but to admit things aren't working. I personally think he's too stubborn to make major changes. He'll likely go down with his ship.
Frank has hit the reset button several times over the past 10 years.
Time to hit the tournament button.
Time to hit the tournament button.
What year would you say that Frank hit the reset button?
How much of that was coachspeak? You can say it all day long but just like you said, its white noise. I dont think anyone ever saw anything different....ever. So to say it and never really do anything about it is not really admitting a change is needed. Frank may not do anything different. However, last year in particular, we could all see something was not right with Frank. It was extremely different from any other year. He did not have the fire he usually did. So, a reset is needed and hopefully Frank really is ready and really does have the fire back.
In most areas of professional life, it is considered not a good idea to let the person that broke something fix it.
is that the only button available ?
Those are the comme
There should have been a complete reset, including the coach.
Overpaid coaches with excuse after excuse for mediocrity to abject failure.
Frank likes to talk. It’s cheap. Unlike his salary and guaranteed buyout.
Win. Then, great.
Lose. Then, bye.
You often get what you tolerate.
There should have been a complete reset, including the coach.
Overpaid coaches with excuse after excuse for mediocrity to abject failure.
Frank likes to talk. It’s cheap. Unlike his salary and guaranteed buyout.
Win. Then, great.
Lose. Then, bye.
You often get what you tolerate.
It only took him 10 years to say it is time to fix it.
Can you expand on what he's doing this year to reset that he hasn't done in prior years?
2014 - 3rd year at SC. When he arrived, there was a good deal of tough guy talk. He called out Calipari and other SEC coaches, regularly spoke of his KSU accomplishments/players, etc. He then proceeded to go 4-14 and 5-13 in the SEC his first two seasons. On top of team performance, many were grumbling about his bombastic courtside behavior and overall attitude. Moving into the 2014-2015 season, Frank began to take some legitimate responsibility for the team's poor performance and promised to do better.
2018 - Following the Final Four performance in 2016, we were expected to build on success with Silva and several others returning. The opposite occurred. We went 7-11 in the SEC and Frank was talking about a "new beginning" moving into 2018.
2021 - Reset button.
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The bottom line is that he's moving into his 10th season and made the NCAA once. Each year, 96 teams head to post season. We should be in that mix at least once every 3 years. Frank has done a decent job here - the Final Four was great and he's navigated us through various levels of mediocrity beyond that.
In the article, they discuss the challenges he had w/ COVID, etc last year which do resonate. What they exclude are the years prior when he's acting like a child on the sidelines as his team flops (2019), mismanagement of Silva years, losing games in the early season to weak out-of-conference teams that cost us postseason, etc.
Again, the Final Four was great and he has kept us competitive to a degree, but the brand of basketball is virtually unwatchable at times, we've rarely been able to shoot the ball with any consistency, and even in this modern age he acts ridiculous on the sidelines and berates players beyond reason.
You can get away with all of that if you are hitting post season with some regularity - but that's not the case. If we don't do anything this year (highly unlikely), just believe it's time for a change for some fresh air and new enthusiasm.
2018 - Following the Final Four performance in 2016, we were expected to build on success with Silva and several others returning. The opposite occurred. We went 7-11 in the SEC and Frank was talking about a "new beginning" moving into 2018.
2021 - Reset button.
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The bottom line is that he's moving into his 10th season and made the NCAA once. Each year, 96 teams head to post season. We should be in that mix at least once every 3 years. Frank has done a decent job here - the Final Four was great and he's navigated us through various levels of mediocrity beyond that.
In the article, they discuss the challenges he had w/ COVID, etc last year which do resonate. What they exclude are the years prior when he's acting like a child on the sidelines as his team flops (2019), mismanagement of Silva years, losing games in the early season to weak out-of-conference teams that cost us postseason, etc.
Again, the Final Four was great and he has kept us competitive to a degree, but the brand of basketball is virtually unwatchable at times, we've rarely been able to shoot the ball with any consistency, and even in this modern age he acts ridiculous on the sidelines and berates players beyond reason.
You can get away with all of that if you are hitting post season with some regularity - but that's not the case. If we don't do anything this year (highly unlikely), just believe it's time for a change for some fresh air and new enthusiasm.
He's not going to change.
He needs to hit that damsned “gone button”. But hey, we have enough idiots that support him and actually think he will change our team. I’ll say it again, he cannot teach, recruit and sure as hell can’t COACH.
You see, I see those resets differently, as proof that he's actually done pretty well.
1) He completely rebranded our program when he took over, and no one is out here saying that wasn't completely necessary, and successful at that.
2) He was forced to rebuild after the Final Four run due to a couple of unforeseen occurrences (PJ leaving for the draft unexpectedly, Rah getting kicked out of school, Bowen not being reinstated even though what he was "accused" of was literally no different than Cam Newton, who was allowed to keep playing and win a national championship). And during that rebuild, we never had a below .500 season, which is actually quite remarkable.
3) Last season, which was easily our most disappointing season under his helm, because we were good enough to be a legit top 25 team, and we just weren't able to compete, mostly due to medical issues like covid hitting us harder than just about anyone else, but also some other off-the-court and locker room things that clearly had players disenchanted. It forced us to say that the setup we had couldn't keep going on the way it was.
As you said, he's kept us competitive to a degree, but I'll add to that, not just any degree, but a certain degree that we haven't had here my 40-year lifetime. A string of 6 consecutive non-losing seasons, which was something we hadn't done since the 70's, since the last Frank M. was coach. More double digit SEC conference win seasons (4) than all other SEC-coaching USC coaches before him combined. 3 top 4 finishes in the SEC, which is exactly the same as all SEC-coaching USC coaches before him combined. And you can't just overlook the fact that he got us to our first Final Four, which was also our first Elite Eight and our first Sweet Sixteen. By every statistical measure, he's at worst the second best coach in our program's history. And the fact that he's done that, while having to hit the reset button a few times in a decade, at a school that has for almost its entire history not been able to sustain any success, and still kept the team competitive (except for one year, last year, where he himself had covid twice), actually speaks volumes to just how good a coach he is.
I would even go one year earlier in 2013, for the first one. Martin actually took over a program that was going steadily downhill under Horn, but that actually had some decent talent that Horn recruited - at least on paper. Damontre Harris, RJ Slawson, Anthony Gill and Damien Leonard were all mid to high 4-stars, Brian Richardson, Eric Smith, and Brenton Williams were high 3-stars that were around the top level of recruit that Martin generally gets every class, and were all SC and NC prospects, minus Williams.
After the first year under Martin in 2012, all except Williams transferred out of the program. So for 2013 he had to start over. And THAT is why both 2012-13 and 2013-14 were essentially identical seasons in terms of wins-losses.
From there in two seasons Martin got the program from 14-20 to 25-9 due to having a core group of players that actually stayed with him and learned to play the game his way with his style.
But that 25-9 season in 2015-16 was also the next major exodus of talent, due to off-court legal issues. They were mostly freshmen and players that hadn't established themselves yet, and the main core of starters plus Silva remained on the team, so the next season was the best in program history.
But DUE to that young group of players that were kicked off, and once the starters started graduating or moving off to the pros, we had another reset that you mention above. Martin and staff couldn't capitalize on the NCAAT success by bringing in higher-quality talent to make the reset not matter, and the players the staff had to rush into the program via JUCO and transfers from other programs due to the removal of the younger players, broke the continuity within his system.
This past season was supposed to be the best roster of returning veteran players under Martin since the 25+-win seasons, but I guess Covid screwed that all up. So now we're starting all over again, and Martin has already established his excuses for the end of the season as to why he should just keep on keeping on as our highly-paid head basketball coach.......
It's debatable that he's kept us 'competitive '. 1 for 9 is not even mediocre.
It’s nice when people just disregard everything one says but still post a reply anyways.
If we were appraising any other Div. 1 school in the country that possessed our exact history over the same number of years, would we consider that program solid?
Wow the Martin apologists we have on here. Bottom line, 9 years on the job and one good tournament run and many excuses. I have an idea let's give Staley, Martin's salary and Martin, Staley's salary. See how he likes that for a non production year. If he does his usual craziness on the sidelines, it's unwatchable.
I should not have to elucidate the meaning of "exact history". We're speaking of another program as a whole with precisely the same worksheet. If they were not us, what would we think of them? It's a hypothetical question.
Ok. Well if Furman had 50 SEC wins that would be pretty solid.
He said it but he never DID IT. Frank has at least proven he can build a winning program here and produced unparalleled results over multiple seasons. I give him a pass for last season- no team could overcome the number of stoppages and illnesses we dealt with from players to Frank himself being stricken with covid and clearly ravaged by it. Besides last year- once he got things rolling he has fielded mostly good teams and a couple of record breaking ones. He knows this is a put up or shut up year for him and he is clearly working his tail off to try to fix what he can in the offseason.
I think we all have a pretty good idea to expect this year. Most likely, an NIT bubble team. First 4 out.
Anyone with a Stetson loss needs to check themselves
Wyoming and Stoneybrook say hello.
weak comeback. (and try not to use your patent comeback by asking why ?) We all know why.
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When the fanbase is split against or for a coach, it rarely works out. Martin himself has a hand in making this split. It's past time to move on, like with Muschamp, this will not turn out well.
I wonder what it would take for Frank to survive? Clearly, 20 wins and a tournament berth would do it, but what about 18 wins and an NIT? Would that be enough if we finish in the middle of the SEC or do we need to be higher?
Sadly we won't know, his friends in high places have let it be known, he is above the program.
Par for the course!
That's a humorous but specious evasion, as you very well know and as anyone can see.
If he makes the postseason at all, Tanner will extend him five years, raise his salary, and thank God he has an excuse not to attempt another coaching search for another 10 years
