Kansas beat Oklahoma
- Thread starter bayrooster
- Start date
My Sooner mother is not happy. But Gamecock dad isn't too happy either. Well, I think he's just resigned to the facts.
Meh the Kansas coach took over a KU team that was getting their butts kicked by Coastal Carolina (yep CCU beat em) and going like 2-10. And within 3 years they are 7-2 and beating Oklahoma. But he was a D3 coach with no SEC experience so no way he could do anything other than at Kansas
Yes, but the big question is where their NIL ranks. And recruiting rankings too.
They must have outspent Oklahoma. Okie just couldn't compete with their NIL recruiting.
In basketball Kansas is probably among the top in NIL. Recruiting, the state of Kansas produces almost no 4 or 5 stars, very few 3 stars also
Yep!! The legions of Kansas football donors outspent poor lil Oklahoma football donors 😆
Yeah, I know.
If you look at our football history since I have been a fan:
We won our only conference championship under Paul Dietzel;
We won 8 games in one season twice for the first time ever and recruited a future Heisman Trophy winner under Jim Carlen;
We won 10 games in one season, climbing as high as number 2 in the nation, under Joe Morrison, who also won 8 games in two other seasons, and finished among the nation's Top 15 twice (finishing nationally-ranked for the first time ever);
We finished 19th and 13th in the nation and for the first time ever beat a traditional power (Ohio State) twice in bowls under Lou Holtz;
Finished in the national Top 10 three times for the first time ever and beat Clemson 5 straight times under Steve Spurrier.
What do those coaches have in common? They all had previous success at FBS schools. Now, they did not have perfect success at South Carolina. But, they did have success at South Carolina. Now compare them to Richard Bell, Sparky Woods (App. State was not a FBS program at the time), Brad Scott and Will Muschamp. Someone having prior success is no guarantee of future success. But, it does improve the odds. As the old adage goes: history does not repeat itself; but it does rhyme.
I'm pulling for Beamer and hope he turns things around. I just hope he realizes that lots of changes need to be made and, he has the intestinal fortitude to make them.
By the way, who were the former players who lobbied our Board Of Trustees on behalf of Beamer? And who would have been the "decision-makers" on the Board?
Coaching may pull an upset every once in a while, but big NIL money will win in the long run.
Maybe. The NBA has shown that just collecting the “best” players who chase $$ and super teams doesn’t usually win out. NIL stars are nice. But for every 1 NIL kid there are 10 no names who instead of chasing endorsements all over town, spend their extra time watching more film and getting extra reps. Its why Kansas is 7-2 and no one can name a single player on their team, but Southern Cal is also 7-2, we know several of their stars and even their famous assistant head coach Cliff Kingsbury. Two vastly different models, but both are 7-2.
Spending big money on incapable coaches won’t win in the long run either.
The truth is, NIL, recruiting and coaching all can have large impacts on a team's performance.
And not being elite in one (say NIL) just means you have to try and compensate with the others. You don't defend inadequate coaching by saying it doesn't matter, just because you're not happy with the NIL situation.
And not being elite in one (say NIL) just means you have to try and compensate with the others. You don't defend inadequate coaching by saying it doesn't matter, just because you're not happy with the NIL situation.
I don't see anything that proves our coaches are incapable. Last 2 years have been above expectations. This year is tough, but not surprising considering the circumstances. Some talent bailed due to NIL. Ton of injuries. Inexperience and lack of depth on the lines. We are about where we deserve to be in the pecking order. Probably a 7 win team in an average year. Maybe one or two more in a good year. Maybe miss a bowl in a bad year like this year. Going to take a ton of money to change that. Coaching alone isn't going to come close.
Agreed.
There will always be a fringe element that thinks 2-6 is just fine. They'll be very vocal soon about a two game win streak now that we play a patsy and Vandy.
I believe that element will dwindle though if we don't qualify for a bowl next year. (And probably not this year either)
Surely missing bowls will have to mean something, even to those who just provide excuses over and over.
You don’t understand how our worst start to a season since 1999 isn’t a sign the coaches are incompetent?
Let's hear your argument for why the coaches are incompetent.
Please go a little deeper than "look at our record."
Tough front-loaded schedule. NIL allowed some other teams to poach some of our talent. Already at a talent deficiency compared to most of the teams we play. Add to that, tons on injuries. Bottom third of the conference in NIL. Other than Mizzou, every team we played has more talent than us. And Mizzou is close. Very close. Factor in the injuries, and they probably had more talent on the field that day than us.
Unless we get better players and more depth, expect this to be the norm. NIL is how to fix it. Not a coach out there that will make up for it.
Well, there you have it. We've talked ourselves into 2-6 being "the norm".
If we just learn to settle for failure, it won't feel like failure anymore.
As a matter of fact, I think the entire staff has earned a raise and an extension.
If we just learn to settle for failure, it won't feel like failure anymore.
As a matter of fact, I think the entire staff has earned a raise and an extension.
Comeon Lurker. You're better than this.
Do you believe the coaches are incompetent and should be fired like Watson?
He's been stating this all year even after a really good season. However, he never offers any context other than he knows he hates Shane Beamer.
Ha, I didn't think I needed the "/s".
I do recall you not wanting to give a serious answer to me while in the middle of posting at Watson, though.
But ill take a shot. I believe we have some serious deficiencies on the defensive side, and I'd be surprised if some changes aren't made this offseason.
The OC is in his first year and appears to have gotten way more out of Rattler than his predecessor. Too early to judge him.
I've said repeatedly that this season won't be Beamers last, and it'd take an epic fail for us to can him next year.
That being said, missing a bowl two years in a row is a pretty darn big fail, imo. And that looks possible at this point.
Ha, I didn't think I needed the "/s".
I do recall you not wanting to give a serious answer to me while in the middle of posting at Watson, though.
But ill take a shot. I believe we have some serious deficiencies on the defensive side, and I'd be surprised if some changes aren't made this offseason.
The OC is in his first year and appears to have gotten way more out of Rattler than his predecessor. Too early to judge him.
I've said repeatedly that this season won't be Beamers last, and it'd take an epic fail for us to can him next year.
That being said, missing a bowl two years in a row is a pretty darn big fail, imo. And that looks possible at this point.
Thanks. While I'm neutral in terms of the staff, here's the sunny side up take on this season:
= We weren't as far off as the record appears. A good season with the schedule we've played to date would have been a record of 4-4 vs. today's 2-6. At 4-4, we would be perfectly situated for this 4-game home stretch which typically happens earlier in the year.
= We should have beat UF. We played as well as they played and they are a pretty good team this year. They have better recruits and NIL program. However, that's definitely one that got away from us right at the end. If we're going to be team's with better resources, changes are it's going to be at home and we were right there. This is one (very close) missed opportunity.
= The 2nd missed opportunity was winning either versus UNC in Charlotte or Missouri away. Even though both have had their staff's in place longer, these two teams are measuring sticks for us and any success they have should be able to be replicated by us. We needed a split here. UNC was probably the game as Missouri is on a tear this year. This is the second game we should have won to push to 4-4.
= We weren't going to beat UGA at UGA - no one has this decade....And yet we played a pretty good game against them.
= The odds of us beating UT in their stadium after ruining their season last year was next to none. They also recruit far better than us and their NIL program is one of the best.
= The odds of us beating A&M last weekend in College Station was next to none. We've never done it. A&M typically wins big at home. They have Top 5 recruiting and NIL classes. We've taken some of our best teams into their stadium and had similar outcomes. Credit Beamer for getting that first win against them at home last year. They have far superior athletes and resources.
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Additional thoughts
= As mentioned yesterday, we've had injuries at WR and at other positions which were super unfortunate. It doesn't matter how great Rattler is if he can't throw it to anyone. Teams figured this out in the UGA game and they have been overplaying our only big threat (Legette) since then. I watched last weekend's game on the ESPN Companion. They sometimes had 3 guys draped on Legette.
= Also mentioned yesterday, we haven't really been blown out by anyone and have won the 1st quarter in all but one of our games. That means we're coming in with a decent game plan. As all of us know, when the wheels come off Gamecock Football, it's very obvious and ugly. We haven't seen anything like that this season. We've been competitive in every game this season with maybe the exception of Missouri (and UT to a lesser extent.)
= USC Football has always been a glass house. Losing our best players to injury and to the portal is brutal. Our 1st Team needs to be on the field for big games.
It was definitely one of two this season which wasn't really in reach.
Although we were only down 2 TDs going into the 4th.
Tennesse and Missouri both fit the only official margin I've ever seen.
21 points, set up in the BCS era to cap point spreads, and stop people from running up the score.
I also felt like A&M was never in doubt past the early phase. And we could point out they sat on the ball for what seemed like half the 4th quarter.
BUT
Ward, none of your post was way off, imo. But I don't think it's fair to say "we weren't beating" UT or A&M when we did just last year. And UNC and Missouri were games we've won in years past. Tennesse was a train wreck, like us, just a few shirt years ago, so it's just frustrating to see the two different trajectories.
I don't think calling out being 10th in the SEC in NIL is a slam dunk answer either, as we're generally around there in recruiting too. We've always had to overcome being a mid to lower SEC team as far as talent.
So true. We've resorted to the "well we're just going to always suck" to justify poor coaching.
The question is if they thinking the coach just doesn't matter, why do they care if we keep Beamer or not if his ability is meaningless?
If you look at the history of the program, only on rare occasion do we ever beat a team who out recruits us on the road. Both UT and A&M were road games and we had beat them at home last season.
In answer to the NIL, when have we ever been team who can afford to lose quality players like Bell and Lloyd? We're almost always paper thin with a few star players. Having those few star players get picked through at the end of each season now is a real blow to a program who recruits in the bottom 3rd of the SEC.
No, that's a lie. I've never said "well we're just going to always suck".
I've made it very clear how we don't suck. You just don't want to accept it. You think we are going to somehow coach our way out of huge talent gaps and depth issues, and it's just not going to happen.
If you want it now, you are going to have to earn it. And by earn it, I mean purchase it will thru NIL.
If you can find a coach who is guaranteed to consistently recruit better than any coach we've had outside of Spurrier, I think that would be of great interest to the AD. Thus far, Beamer is recruiting quite well in comparison.
100%. Other teams can literally come and outbid you for your best players EVERY YEAR. But somehow, a coach is supposed to just "compensate" for that somehow.
Just denial of reality.
Beamer is recruiting no better than Muschamp, and he's had the benefit of being able to buy players.
When most of the conference has more money to buy players than you do, that's not a benefit. NIL isn't a winner for us. Pretty much assures us to be in the bottom 3rd in the conference in talent. Amazing that you don't comprehend that.
Comeon Watson. We've had this discussion. The NIL is a net negative to USC and many other P5 teams.
So if you were in charge you would have fired Beamer after last year, right? Because you've complained about him this entire season.
Agreed.
We're 2-6 and some want that be "the norm" and somehow acceptable going forward. Well, "some" might be overestimating.
Luckily, I don't see too many other posters happy about how the season has gone.
Its hard for me to argue that NIL is a net negative, when NIL brought us the one player who is single handedly carrying this team.
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All this really says to me is that NIL puts us right in the same spot our typical recruiting put us in, historically.
We're not a top SEC team, we're not elite. We won't out talent any of the top teams.
So what do you do? Field the team that you have and shrug your shoulders? As if coaching makes no impact, and therefore doesn't need to be maximized?
