ADVERTISEMENT

Let's not forget who the real culprit is

MIghtee

Active Member
Aug 9, 2019
1,246
1,517
113
Now that many of us are getting our wish with Bentley being benched and Hilinski getting the start, it's easy to lose sight of who the real culprit is here: Muschamp. As much I was vocal about not thinking Bentley had what it took at QB, the kid was simply doing the job when his number was called. If the coach says "you're in" then you gotta go in. It was Muschamp who let Bentley go the distance in a miserable game against lowly Akron. It was Muschamp who couldn't pull the trigger in the bowl game when it was evident that the game had gotten away from Bentley. It was Muschamp who ran an unprepared and overwhelmed Bentley out there against UNC.

It's easy to get mad at the players but, in many ways, Jake is a victim himself. No matter how many mistakes a player makes, it's the coach's job to fix it or bench the guy. Jake wasn't really put in situations where he could be successful. This does not negate the fact that he just couldn't cut it at QB.

Jake's failures at QB are merely a symptom of the disease, not the cause. In many ways, I have been staunchly pro-Muschamp over the years. I cut him a lot slack because of the mess he inherited. However, one disturbing trend developed during Muschamp's tenure: being unprepared and having a bad game plan. Time and time again, we have come out and looked completely lost, like we had spent the week preparing to face a different team. On top of that we just looked unprepared and sloppy. This is NOT a talent issue. No, we are nowhere close to the likes of Clemson and UGA in talent, but that does not mean should look unprepared. And playing talent has nothing at all to do with game plan.

This was a surprise to me and took a little while for me to really come to grips with it b/c Champ always SAYS the right things during the midweek pressers. He preaches discipline and hard work as much as any coach I've ever heard. He absolutely brushes off any excuses for failures, diagnosing the only cure as working harder. He discusses the nuances of the game in exacting detail and can break down the opposing team almost as if he's a coach on that staff. It's easy to see how he probably gave Tanner a fantastic interview. Anyone who sat down with Muschamp to interview him would be blown away by his knowledge of the game and probably think: wow, this guy would be a phenomenal coach. Unfortunately, our level of play has just never matched up to his ability to discuss the game.

I don't know what it is that separates one man from another in terms of coaching ability. Champ certainly knows as much about football and football techniques as any coach out there. That is unquestionable. He simply can't execute as a head coach for some reason.

The quicker our admin comes to this painful realization, the better it will be for the program. In hindsight, Champ erred in promoting from within for OC instead of going out and paying to get a much better asset, but that's water under the bridge now. That was his chance to address his most glaring weakness as head coach.
 
CWM does know how to win the press conference.

In business school, I remember being taught to be wary of those who use extreme language all the time from those explaining or promoting their products or assets. Thing is, momma taught me the same thing all those years growing up.
 
I couldn’t agree more...the people that ultimately believe Bentley was the problem are in for a rude awakening (and this come as one of the most outspoken Bentley critics)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Brace1
Ray Tanner?

There is reason to look critically at Tanner. However, folks weren't exactly lining up for the job after Spurrier bombed out. Ray's presumed 1st choice was destined for Texas and waited it out. His presumed second choice was snatched up by UGA so he wouldn't come here. Champ was NOT Tanner's first choice. I think Ray did his dead level best in finding us a coach...Champ was just one of the few guys who was willing to take the job.

The contract is bad, but that's on the BOT as well. Not just Ray.

I do think Ray should be replaced. They need to come up with some kind of way for him to transition into a different role so it spares his dignity.
 
Now that many of us are getting our wish with Bentley being benched and Hilinski getting the start, it's easy to lose sight of who the real culprit is here: Muschamp. As much I was vocal about not thinking Bentley had what it took at QB, the kid was simply doing the job when his number was called. If the coach says "you're in" then you gotta go in. It was Muschamp who let Bentley go the distance in a miserable game against lowly Akron. It was Muschamp who couldn't pull the trigger in the bowl game when it was evident that the game had gotten away from Bentley. It was Muschamp who ran an unprepared and overwhelmed Bentley out there against UNC.

It's easy to get mad at the players but, in many ways, Jake is a victim himself. No matter how many mistakes a player makes, it's the coach's job to fix it or bench the guy. Jake wasn't really put in situations where he could be successful. This does not negate the fact that he just couldn't cut it at QB.

Jake's failures at QB are merely a symptom of the disease, not the cause. In many ways, I have been staunchly pro-Muschamp over the years. I cut him a lot slack because of the mess he inherited. However, one disturbing trend developed during Muschamp's tenure: being unprepared and having a bad game plan. Time and time again, we have come out and looked completely lost, like we had spent the week preparing to face a different team. On top of that we just looked unprepared and sloppy. This is NOT a talent issue. No, we are nowhere close to the likes of Clemson and UGA in talent, but that does not mean should look unprepared. And playing talent has nothing at all to do with game plan.

This was a surprise to me and took a little while for me to really come to grips with it b/c Champ always SAYS the right things during the midweek pressers. He preaches discipline and hard work as much as any coach I've ever heard. He absolutely brushes off any excuses for failures, diagnosing the only cure as working harder. He discusses the nuances of the game in exacting detail and can break down the opposing team almost as if he's a coach on that staff. It's easy to see how he probably gave Tanner a fantastic interview. Anyone who sat down with Muschamp to interview him would be blown away by his knowledge of the game and probably think: wow, this guy would be a phenomenal coach. Unfortunately, our level of play has just never matched up to his ability to discuss the game.

I don't know what it is that separates one man from another in terms of coaching ability. Champ certainly knows as much about football and football techniques as any coach out there. That is unquestionable. He simply can't execute as a head coach for some reason.

The quicker our admin comes to this painful realization, the better it will be for the program. In hindsight, Champ erred in promoting from within for OC instead of going out and paying to get a much better asset, but that's water under the bridge now. That was his chance to address his most glaring weakness as head coach.
There is reason to look critically at Tanner. However, folks weren't exactly lining up for the job after Spurrier bombed out. Ray's presumed 1st choice was destined for Texas and waited it out. His presumed second choice was snatched up by UGA so he wouldn't come here. Champ was NOT Tanner's first choice. I think Ray did his dead level best in finding us a coach...Champ was just one of the few guys who was willing to take the job.

The contract is bad, but that's on the BOT as well. Not just Ray.

I do think Ray should be replaced. They need to come up with some kind of way for him to transition into a different role so it spares his dignity.

Excellent posts. I concur!!
 
I agree completely with the OP. We can only hope the team gets behind Helinski and plays better. What's really disturbing is how bad our defense is and this is supposedly Muschamp's specialty? And he cannot use the we're young and injury excuse.

I said before Spurrier left he should have brought in CWM in as DC instead of Ward and given him control of the defense.

Muschamp has lost the team and unless major changes are made I do not see this ending well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cock In Space
I disagree as well, what about Reilly. Just passed right by him. Chump was a loser at Florida. How do you do that at a place that has nearly automatic recruiting?
Right. Tanner went in with the mindset that the new coach had to have experience and the fact it got down to Muschamp and RichRod just proves he didn’t care what kind of experience it was.
 
I disagree as well, what about Reilly. Just passed right by him. Chump was a loser at Florida. How do you do that at a place that has nearly automatic recruiting?

Ask every coach they’ve had not named Spurrier or Meyer. Florida had a long history of losing before Spurrier and has had some since him too. It’s not an automatic job. Not defending Muschamp here. We just shouldn’t make Florida’s history seem like Alabama, Michigan, Notre Dame or SoCal because it’s not even close.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ConKreteCock
Ask every coach they’ve had not named Spurrier or Meyer. Florida had a long history of losing before Spurrier and has had some since him too. It’s not an automatic job. Not defending Muschamp here. We just shouldn’t make Florida’s history seem like Alabama, Michigan, Notre Dame or SoCal because it’s not even close.
Compared to any team outside of the perennial top ten teams their recruiting is pretty much automatic. But hey what do I know. There’s no defense for the Chump.
Maybe he was a good DC at one time but look at what happened to them Saturday. They allowed drives for TD’s from the 2 and the 5. They were run over like kids.
 
Compared to any team outside of the perennial top ten teams their recruiting is pretty much automatic. But hey what do I know. There’s no defense for the Chump.
Maybe he was a good DC at one time but look at what happened to them Saturday. They allowed drives for TD’s from the 2 and the 5. They were run over like kids.
Guess you missed the memo that those drives were also Bentley’s fault.
 
lol...NO way Reilly was coming here.
I dont know who we could have got, but for you to say there was only a few guys willing to take the job is totally false.
South Carolina can pay almost as much as any school in the nation for a GOOD coach. There are about 130 FBS head coaches. There are a lot of FCS coaches too. There are plenty of capable coaches in that group who would jump at the chance to take the South Carolina job. There are many more offensive and defensive coordinators who will soon become head coaches. Tanner didn't appear to do a lot of searching. He made a short list and went with choice #3,Muschamp. If he had known how to correctly evaluate a head coach he would have eliminated Muschamp from his list. Its obvious he doesnt know. He doesn't even know how to pick a good baseball coach.
 
There is reason to look critically at Tanner. However, folks weren't exactly lining up for the job after Spurrier bombed out. Ray's presumed 1st choice was destined for Texas and waited it out. His presumed second choice was snatched up by UGA so he wouldn't come here. Champ was NOT Tanner's first choice. I think Ray did his dead level best in finding us a coach...Champ was just one of the few guys who was willing to take the job.

The contract is bad, but that's on the BOT as well. Not just Ray.

I do think Ray should be replaced. They need to come up with some kind of way for him to transition into a different role so it spares his dignity.

How about Head Baseball Coach?
 
Fortunately for Ryan he hasn't been here long enough to be coached down to nothing. I hope they take a different approach while bringing him along.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Brace1
Fortunately for Ryan he hasn't been here long enough to be coached down to nothing. I hope they take a different approach while bringing him along.
That's what worries me about this staff. It seems they ruined Jake. I hope Ryan has a better mental attitude about this and can tune them out if necessary.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Brace1
You cannot disagree with the fact that Champ was, at best, Tanner's 3rd choice and was likely his 4th choice.
The problem is Will Muschamp shouldn’t of been a candidate at all. I for one didn’t believe those years in Florida was a mistake, and I never bought into the notion that he learned from it! That guy I saw in Florida for four years was the same guy that brought his tail to Columbia in 2016..I’ll never forget one of his first interviews, when he was asked if Roper was gonna be his OC and he said yes “Kurt Roper will be my offensive coordinator, and he said it with an “attitude,” Like I know what I’m doing who “are you?’ to question me, and I was like the same ole ‘Muschamp.” And it really pissed me off when he fired the team Chaplain “why he do that? Anyway it doesn’t look good for Champ going forward, and I don’t like Ryan Hilinski at QB.. He’s gonna get killed back there, unless the offensive line becomes good very fast!
 
Last edited:
Now that many of us are getting our wish with Bentley being benched and Hilinski getting the start, it's easy to lose sight of who the real culprit is here: Muschamp. As much I was vocal about not thinking Bentley had what it took at QB, the kid was simply doing the job when his number was called. If the coach says "you're in" then you gotta go in. It was Muschamp who let Bentley go the distance in a miserable game against lowly Akron. It was Muschamp who couldn't pull the trigger in the bowl game when it was evident that the game had gotten away from Bentley. It was Muschamp who ran an unprepared and overwhelmed Bentley out there against UNC.

It's easy to get mad at the players but, in many ways, Jake is a victim himself. No matter how many mistakes a player makes, it's the coach's job to fix it or bench the guy. Jake wasn't really put in situations where he could be successful. This does not negate the fact that he just couldn't cut it at QB.

Jake's failures at QB are merely a symptom of the disease, not the cause. In many ways, I have been staunchly pro-Muschamp over the years. I cut him a lot slack because of the mess he inherited. However, one disturbing trend developed during Muschamp's tenure: being unprepared and having a bad game plan. Time and time again, we have come out and looked completely lost, like we had spent the week preparing to face a different team. On top of that we just looked unprepared and sloppy. This is NOT a talent issue. No, we are nowhere close to the likes of Clemson and UGA in talent, but that does not mean should look unprepared. And playing talent has nothing at all to do with game plan.

This was a surprise to me and took a little while for me to really come to grips with it b/c Champ always SAYS the right things during the midweek pressers. He preaches discipline and hard work as much as any coach I've ever heard. He absolutely brushes off any excuses for failures, diagnosing the only cure as working harder. He discusses the nuances of the game in exacting detail and can break down the opposing team almost as if he's a coach on that staff. It's easy to see how he probably gave Tanner a fantastic interview. Anyone who sat down with Muschamp to interview him would be blown away by his knowledge of the game and probably think: wow, this guy would be a phenomenal coach. Unfortunately, our level of play has just never matched up to his ability to discuss the game.

I don't know what it is that separates one man from another in terms of coaching ability. Champ certainly knows as much about football and football techniques as any coach out there. That is unquestionable. He simply can't execute as a head coach for some reason.

The quicker our admin comes to this painful realization, the better it will be for the program. In hindsight, Champ erred in promoting from within for OC instead of going out and paying to get a much better asset, but that's water under the bridge now. That was his chance to address his most glaring weakness as head coach.

Thank you for your post. Very thoughtful.

I will say this. I have never been impressed by WM. Yes, he talks a lot but says very little. I find him to lack the intricate knowledge and the nuances of the game. He just does not come across as an HC that has the smarts and the drive to get the job done.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cbreezy33
Yeah especially when we didn’t even grant him an interview . Guess we will never know will we .

Bill Belichick didn't get an interview either.

I'm not defending RT as AD, as noted above. However, some have very short memories about what was going on at the time. We were a 3-win program (and a bad one at that) who had recently lost to the Citadel and was sporting a walk-on at QB. Nobody of Riley's caliber wanted to bother with a total overhaul of a program in the SEC. A program that had just trashed the legacy of a HOF coach. It was a toxic job.
 
Bill Belichick didn't get an interview either.

I'm not defending RT as AD, as noted above. However, some have very short memories about what was going on at the time. We were a 3-win program (and a bad one at that) who had recently lost to the Citadel and was sporting a walk-on at QB. Nobody of Riley's caliber wanted to bother with a total overhaul of a program in the SEC. A program that had just trashed the legacy of a HOF coach. It was a toxic job.

I disagree . That team was two years removed from a top 5 finish . The 2014 team wins 10 Games if we had any semblance of a defense (thanks whammy) . It was not the job it would have been if Spurrier walked away a year earlier but it was still a job at an SEC school that had recent top 10 success . Riley at the time was still relatively unknown . If we granted him an interview and then threw an insane amount of money at him who knows . Not saying that OU would have put a bug in his ear and told him to wait one more year on Stoops to retire . Even if he wouldn’t have taken the job , the fact that Tanner didn’t even have the foresight to interview him speaks volumes . Tanner botched this hire plain and simple . Even if you are right and none of the top candidates wanted this job , why would you hire a guy to overhaul a 3 win program that destroyed one of the top programs in the country in 4 years and had literally not one division one team interested in hiring him?? There were other guys out there and Tanner just didn’t dig deep enough .
 
I disagree . That team was two years removed from a top 5 finish . The 2014 team wins 10 Games if we had any semblance of a defense (thanks whammy) . It was not the job it would have been if Spurrier walked away a year earlier but it was still a job at an SEC school that had recent top 10 success . Riley at the time was still relatively unknown . If we granted him an interview and then threw an insane amount of money at him who knows . Not saying that OU would have put a bug in his ear and told him to wait one more year on Stoops to retire . Even if he wouldn’t have taken the job , the fact that Tanner didn’t even have the foresight to interview him speaks volumes . Tanner botched this hire plain and simple . Even if you are right and none of the top candidates wanted this job , why would you hire a guy to overhaul a 3 win program that destroyed one of the top programs in the country in 4 years and had literally not one division one team interested in hiring him?? There were other guys out there and Tanner just didn’t dig deep enough .

Finally, someone putting an end to this nonsense that no one would come here. Well said!
 
Finally, someone putting an end to this nonsense that no one would come here. Well said!

Thank you . If we got LOU HOLTZ to come out of retirement to take over a 1-11 program that had never won anything then I say anything was possible . Any job in the SEC other than Vandy ( congrats Kentucky you finally made it) is a marquee job anytime anywhere . You just gotta have an AD that knows football and can negotiate and sale the program .
 
  • Like
Reactions: HUBER and howard13
I disagree . That team was two years removed from a top 5 finish . The 2014 team wins 10 Games if we had any semblance of a defense (thanks whammy) . It was not the job it would have been if Spurrier walked away a year earlier but it was still a job at an SEC school that had recent top 10 success . Riley at the time was still relatively unknown . If we granted him an interview and then threw an insane amount of money at him who knows . Not saying that OU would have put a bug in his ear and told him to wait one more year on Stoops to retire . Even if he wouldn’t have taken the job , the fact that Tanner didn’t even have the foresight to interview him speaks volumes . Tanner botched this hire plain and simple . Even if you are right and none of the top candidates wanted this job , why would you hire a guy to overhaul a 3 win program that destroyed one of the top programs in the country in 4 years and had literally not one division one team interested in hiring him?? There were other guys out there and Tanner just didn’t dig deep enough .

Well, for one thing, none of us knows what on behind the scenes. So this is all pure speculation on anyone's part. Perhaps Tanner did make overtures to Riley and didn't get anywhere. That part of the country is where his roots are so it was always the most logical place for him to end up. Given how long the process took, I'm inclined to think Tanner hired Muschamp out of desperation.
 
Finally, someone putting an end to this nonsense that no one would come here. Well said!

If Tanner could have made a marquee hire, he would have. If the job was as easy of a sell as you're saying, it wouldn't matter who the AD was. But there were 2 factors at play: 1) we were seen as tremendously damaged goods and 2) given #1 we needed a true AD who would sell the program to a potential HC.

Yes, we got Holtz when we were a bad program but it took a truly great AD to pull that off. But, after the way the Spurrier fiasco ended, nobody wanted to go the old coach route again. So that's not really a good comparison anyway.
 
Well, for one thing, none of us knows what on behind the scenes. So this is all pure speculation on anyone's part. Perhaps Tanner to make overtures to Riley and didn't get anywhere. That part of the country is where his roots are so it was always the most logical place for him to end up. Given how long the process took, I'm inclined to think Tanner hired Muschamp out of desperation.

True and you could be absolutely right . If OU got wind of us looking at Riley they probably would have found some way to put the brakes on it but who knows . My honest opinion is I think Tanner thought he had Herman in the bag and so he just sat back and waited and failed to continue the process . What makes this worse is he had a 2 month head start and it essentially meant nothing . There were a tons of ways to spin the 3-9 season to potential candidates: Brutal Sec Schedule , lost starting 4 star QB in second game , Coach left mid season , 4 straight years of top 20 recruiting classes , two years removed from top 5 finish etc etc etc . He was in over his head . I agree with you that at the time of hire Muschamp might have been the last girl at the dance but if Ray had done his job he never would have been in that situation .
 
Now that many of us are getting our wish with Bentley being benched and Hilinski getting the start, it's easy to lose sight of who the real culprit is here: Muschamp. As much I was vocal about not thinking Bentley had what it took at QB, the kid was simply doing the job when his number was called. If the coach says "you're in" then you gotta go in. It was Muschamp who let Bentley go the distance in a miserable game against lowly Akron. It was Muschamp who couldn't pull the trigger in the bowl game when it was evident that the game had gotten away from Bentley. It was Muschamp who ran an unprepared and overwhelmed Bentley out there against UNC.

It's easy to get mad at the players but, in many ways, Jake is a victim himself. No matter how many mistakes a player makes, it's the coach's job to fix it or bench the guy. Jake wasn't really put in situations where he could be successful. This does not negate the fact that he just couldn't cut it at QB.

Jake's failures at QB are merely a symptom of the disease, not the cause. In many ways, I have been staunchly pro-Muschamp over the years. I cut him a lot slack because of the mess he inherited. However, one disturbing trend developed during Muschamp's tenure: being unprepared and having a bad game plan. Time and time again, we have come out and looked completely lost, like we had spent the week preparing to face a different team. On top of that we just looked unprepared and sloppy. This is NOT a talent issue. No, we are nowhere close to the likes of Clemson and UGA in talent, but that does not mean should look unprepared. And playing talent has nothing at all to do with game plan.

This was a surprise to me and took a little while for me to really come to grips with it b/c Champ always SAYS the right things during the midweek pressers. He preaches discipline and hard work as much as any coach I've ever heard. He absolutely brushes off any excuses for failures, diagnosing the only cure as working harder. He discusses the nuances of the game in exacting detail and can break down the opposing team almost as if he's a coach on that staff. It's easy to see how he probably gave Tanner a fantastic interview. Anyone who sat down with Muschamp to interview him would be blown away by his knowledge of the game and probably think: wow, this guy would be a phenomenal coach. Unfortunately, our level of play has just never matched up to his ability to discuss the game.

I don't know what it is that separates one man from another in terms of coaching ability. Champ certainly knows as much about football and football techniques as any coach out there. That is unquestionable. He simply can't execute as a head coach for some reason.

The quicker our admin comes to this painful realization, the better it will be for the program. In hindsight, Champ erred in promoting from within for OC instead of going out and paying to get a much better asset, but that's water under the bridge now. That was his chance to address his most glaring weakness as head coach.

Your assessment is dead on and almost word for word what Florida fans told us. Word for frigging word.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MIghtee
Bill Belichick didn't get an interview either.

I'm not defending RT as AD, as noted above. However, some have very short memories about what was going on at the time. We were a 3-win program (and a bad one at that) who had recently lost to the Citadel and was sporting a walk-on at QB. Nobody of Riley's caliber wanted to bother with a total overhaul of a program in the SEC. A program that had just trashed the legacy of a HOF coach. It was a toxic job.
Spurrier trashed his own legacy by quitting, then walking off 1.5 years after. He was collecting a check those last 2 seasons. He wasn't earning them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ConKreteCock
Spurrier trashed his own legacy by quitting, then walking off 1.5 years after. He was collecting a check those last 2 seasons. He wasn't earning them.

Well, yes. But for folks looking from the outside all they see is "dang, not even Steve Spurrier could maintain success there."
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT