Don't be ridiculous. Dawn is a fine basketball coach, but Frank Martin is a more attractive woman.
LSU fans pissed at Dawn and her comments
- Thread starter budman1976
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In his defence he has laboured with honour to organise his thoughts.
Because that's how colour is spelled in most of the world.
There was a pond in the centre of Beaufort decades ago, but it was filled in. I grew up about 700m from it.
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Haha....I know, but I've got news for you...we won the Revolutionary War! Part of the spoils is not utilizing a superfluous "u."
Why would a basketball team take into consideration various factors beside someone's skill on the basketball court and how they merge to form a great team?
A coach that is judged on wins/losses is charged with putting together a team to win games. There is no expectation that the players represent society overall, just that they are the best possible team on the athletic court/field.
A university community, funded by taxpayers, should reflect the general makeup of society at large as much as possible. The "best" is judged in many different ways. One student might be an excellent student. Another student might be an excellent Oboe player. One might be from an underrepresented community that can bring a richness of experience to campus that doesn't exist.
Why would you expect a coach to sign a great player, and then also sign a marginal player?
Why should they be consistent?
The goals/missions aren't the same.
A team's goals and mission isn't the same a university community.
Whose to say I haven't?
I would assume everyone of us has experience being denied something because of something we have no control over.
We all experience that in one way or another- and many of us always will in one way or another. We likely will know about it sometimes, but most often we won't.
You don't like the methods that some organizations have taken to try to right the wrongs of a few centuries of the systematic and terrible mistreatment of human beings.
I can understand anyone being upset for missing out on something when they have no control over it. I've been there. I'm sure I will again.
But I can also understand the bumps in the road for organizations trying their best to right the wrongs that have totaled up over the centuries.
Being color-blind isn't the goal- and shouldn't be the goal. I'm not color blind. My nephew is African American. He's clearly black.
When someone says they are color-blind, I tell them I am sorry, but that's a genetic condition.
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Canadians also spell color, "colour"...so for the person wanting to know why this person is using the spelling as they have, please remember we may have Brits, Canadians on this board...
Unless Gurminder Thind is on FGF, I'm calling bullspit on that one!
I agree with you as far as basketball goes.
We also agree that universities are accepting less qualified applicants from a purely academic standpoint. As long as we can admit this, we shouldn't blame people for questioning the ability of people who happen upon a degree based on their early disadvantages in life or the fact that they can play an oboe. We should expect people to question the legitimacy of some of these degrees, and they will and do.
I don't agree with what I've highlighted. In any case, there will be a workaround over time to combat this. College degrees already don't mean as much as they once did.
should reflect the general makeup of society at large as much as possible.
I do agree with it- and really every public university does as well. To me this is common sense.
But universities have accepted less "qualified" applicants from a purely academic standpoint for generations. Plenty of white kids were accepted that didn't deserve it just like any other group.
Surely you don't think everyone's dad or mom even on this board set the world on fire in high school with regards to academics, do you?
I went to USC. I was no academic powerhouse in high school- far from it. I was lucky to get in college. USC gave me a chance when some other schools wouldn't. USC showed me the most interest. I was a white kid from a small rural high school. Not sure I met some quota or not but I sure know I was not a high excelling student.
But I made the most of it. I guess someone could question my degree but I don't really sense people do this in real life that much. The ones that do, I would guess, are more jealous than anything.
Plus, I don't care if they question it. My diploma is hanging on the wall. They can't do anything about it.
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Skin color is one factor. I think it's acceptable to do so in limited situations where historically marginalized groups have been disproportionately impacted.
I have always agreed with the Supreme Court decision in Grutter v. Bollinger
I'm talking about employers that will question degrees during the hiring process. Your diploma means nothing if employers don't respect it. I didn't go to college because I cared about a diploma any more than you did.
It depends on the industry.
In my work, you can't even get considered without a college degree.
In some industries, a 4 year degree isn't needed, but a 2 year degree is mandatory.
As society gets more technical, I see college degrees in many subjects to be even more essential.
As I have told my children, it's still very true that a college degree gives you options- in some cases- many options.
It doesn't mean you are necessarily smarter than someone else. But it does give you options and opens up many doors that otherwise would be closed.
So....when you say...
A university community, funded by taxpayers, should reflect the general makeup of society at large as much as possible.
You mean the color of their skin should matter in the acceptance guidelines?
Sounds like the definition of racism to me.
This is highly dependent.
I have had this exact conversation with my children when I talked to them about not focusing on the name of the college- just go to college - 2 year, 4 year - doesn't matter. I have one that is a Junior, and I have one getting ready to go to technical college who wants to then transfer to a 4 year college.
My company doesn't care where you went to college. But my job requires a college degree. It doesn't specify the degree, but of course some degrees are looked at as more applicable to our business.
Most of my coworkers went to colleges I had never heard of before I got to know my coworkers better. Most are small schools in the Midwest. I happen to work in insurance and many insurance pros didn't major in insurance. They sort of fell into it. I have coworkers with engineering degrees, history degrees, public administration degrees, teaching degrees, accounting degrees, and liberal arts degrees.
So marginalizing groups of people now is ok as long as its in the name of making up for groups marginalized in the past? Makes perfect sense.
It's not racism. Accurately reflecting your community, city, state isn't dependent on just color.
Color of their skin, ethnicity, gender, students from cities, students from small towns, students from poor areas of the state students from well off areas, etc. - as much as is reasonably possible.
It's not racism. It's called - a publicly funded college accurately reflecting the society that provides its funding.
and this is standard practice today- and the goal of really all public colleges.
Something we agree on. Most college degrees are not worth the cost of the education and the 4 years of lost income while in school.
I see a huge difference.
In the past, a public university intentionally refusing to admit a black student very likely ruined their opportunities for a college education in many areas of the country.
with the numerous options available today, that is very highly unlikely.
We just have different values and beliefs - and we aren't going to agree.
Ciera Toomey ...6'4" center, #1 in 2023...we are not recruiting her Ashlynn Shade...6'0 guard, #3 combo guard...just commited to UCONN...we did not recruit her.. |
Here's an interesting question for thought: What if, Geno recruited only white players, hired staff that was all white, and was winning National Championships? ..(example of starting five with bench players)
PG..Paige Bueckers
CG...Catlin Clark
C...Elissa Cunane
SF...Ashley Joens
PF...Cameron Brink
Bench players: C Elizabeth Kitley, F Mackenzie Holmes, F Emily Engstler, G Haley Van Lith, PF Jenna Stati, G Lexi Hull...
It would be the greatest basketball team ever assembled...does anyone think there would be pushback?
I don't know about most.
Cleary some aren't.
But again, this is highly dependent. Some students, like my sister in law, earned a basic- ho hum- degree that in the surface is meaningless but my sister in law, with her degree, landed a job a few years after college that allowed her to work her way up to senior management and make an incredible living. But the job required a college degree- any degree.
So I think it's highly variable.
But of course college is not just about the degree. Oh, that's most important but a college experience is more than just the degree.
If any coach intentionally only recruited players of one race- yes- there would be deserved pushback.
SC State is an HBCU whose sole purpose is to try to counter the low college graduation rate of African American students who, by a few centuries of intentional mistreatment in law, resulted in low percentages of college graduates.
But SC State also has white students.
But they receive public funding just like USC. Shouldn't their student population reflect the community they serve?
Cant have it both ways.
Guess you favor reporations too?
No...Food for thought...I am asking a question to see if fans can see both sides of the equation...
They were created by the General Assembly to specifically give college opportunities to African Americans. They are serving their community.
A school specifically created by the SC Legislature to offer college opportunities to African American students, who are underrepresented with regards to college degrees, likely would not serve their specifically created purpose if the student body was made up of 85% white students.
At the bare minimum, it would be an oddly strange approach to meet their goal.
The University of South Carolina's mission is completely different.
Again no one ever said DS didnt recruit white players. The original question was why none ever sign.
Maybe she busted her ass recruiting them. I have no idea. For some reason they dont want to play here.
That was all that was asked yet it turned into this.
But the premise was off. What proof is there that Staley refuses to recruit white players?
I think we will be waiting a long time to see it from someone- anyone- etc...
But answers were given.
Maybe the white players she recruited don't want to play for a black head coach. I mean anything is possible.
Created to offer special opportunities to people based on skin color.
If thats not right in your face then what is.
Obviously you are correct we wont agree.
You still think groups of people should be treated differently based on characteristics they cant control and i see people as individuals who just happen to be white black short tall fat skinny and should all be treated the same.
And again maybe the atmosphere she has created causes those girls to not want to play for her.
Your view on this is different than mine based on the fact that you work in an industry where the degree and where it came from doesn't matter. I think you'd see things a lot differently if you were in a different industry. I know I would too.
Yes- SC state was created to offer not special opportunities- but opportunities based on their skin color.
You can't expect to systematically discriminate against people for 200+ years based on their skin color and then think you can magically make it better by saying you can't use skin color anymore. That's not logical.
No, I realize that people groups that have been systematically abused by government policies and laws for centuries deserve to be given support and chances that they were not given in the past- to make up for those abuses.
I also see people as individuals. I think i see them more as individuals than you do.
I think there is a reason why you are upset that some minorities would be given opportunities to make up for the centuries of abuse.
Anything is possible
but the atmosphere she has created just happens to be the home of the #1 team in the country -
and without definitive proof that she's doing something as nutty as avoiding recruiting white girls, I'm going to do the only decent thing that any decent human being would do for a coach at their school and support her, cheer her, and enthusiastically proclaim her greatness.
Well, I think everyone almost always sees things different on a lot of subjects if they are in totally different circumstances.
