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OT: Mortgage loans

He does know what he's talking about. However, he leaves out some information.


His scenario assumes you invest that difference and invest that same amount every month and never touch it- never have a medical or family emergency where you need it, never decide to spend it. That's a huge, huge hole in his idea that the great majority of people will not be able to escape.

For the rarest of the rare individual- it might make some sense. If you are the person that has money to burn and don't really even need a mortgage but want to play it to your advantage, then it might make some sense. 98% of people aren't in that boat. Heck most people have problems having enough discipline to save up enough money to have a decent down payment.

It also assumes the market does well - which has been a safe assumption.


Or you could pay off that 15 year mortgage and be done with any mortgage which allows you 1) Peace of mind for you and your family- which is a REALLY BIG DEAL these days. 2) you can now take that mortgage payment you would have been paying and invest it, or go spend it on something else - which you have much more freedom to do since you don't have a house payment ever again.


There is a reason most every competent financial advisor recommends a 15 year mortgage if you can handle the payments without starving or not having another dollar to your name.


My friends that have paid off houses almost brag about having their house paid off. The relief they exhibit and the freedom they have is often written all over their face. Hard to put a dollar amount on that peace of mind.

I have about 8 years left. I refinanced 6 years ago to a 15 year mortgage. I almost went back to a 30 at one time. I am so thankful I didn't because now that I see the end of the road coming, I've a lot of plans for that money I've been sending to the bank. Better yet, I'll know my house is really 100% mine.
 
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I have about 8 years left. I refinanced 6 years ago to a 15 year mortgage. I almost went back to a 30 at one time. I am so thankful I didn't because now that I see the end of the road coming, I've a lot of plans for that money I've been sending to the bank. Better yet, I'll know my house is really 100% mine.
Right there with you. I am down to less than 6 left. Looking forward to it.
 
During the market Covid collapse of March 2020, I did a refi to a 10 year 2.5% loan, but kept making my old payment I am now down to a five years left on my loan, if I keep making the same payment. Big celebration planned for January 2027.
 
I'm 50, my plan is to retire or at least quit my current full time job at 62. I have at most 3-4 years left on my 30-year mortgage.I have been paying $100 extra for the last 4 years to save me 4 years according to the mortgage guy.At the time i had 12 and i asked him if i paid an extra 100 ,how many years could i save, he said 4. So i have. When I'm done with this, im planning on saving till retirement and getting a part-time job to keep me busy, long as it doesn't interfere with my golfing.At one time i was thinking about getting a new house at 15 years and work till i was 65, but i don't want to work that long or have the payments.62 is going to be hard as it is.35 years on concrete will tear down some legs and body.at 62 ill, have a monthly check from work,SS, and 401k. i figure that plus a partime job, possibly a walmart greeter doing nothing, will get me by easy.Thats the plan anyways.
 
My friends that have paid off houses almost brag about having their house paid off. The relief they exhibit and the freedom they have is often written all over their face. Hard to put a dollar amount on that peace of mind.

I have about 8 years left. I refinanced 6 years ago to a 15 year mortgage. I almost went back to a 30 at one time. I am so thankful I didn't because now that I see the end of the road coming, I've a lot of plans for that money I've been sending to the bank. Better yet, I'll know my house is really 100% mine.
Agree....I remember the old mortgage burning parties people used to have. Burned mine when I got the cancelled mortgage back with my wife while drinking a bottle of wine.
 
Home ownership in general is a bad investment. You'll always make more money in the market than in your home.
 
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Home ownership in general is a bad investment. You'll always make more money in the market than in your home.

That's really not true for most people. I agree in the sense that your home is not an investment vehicle like stocks. But. Quick math.

Put $50k down on $500k house or into market.

5% home increase is $30k

You would need a 60% increase in stocks to hit that same number.

There are so many other factors to consider that of course are being ignored here. Just saying that realistically most people will make more in their house.
 
I'm 50, my plan is to retire or at least quit my current full time job at 62. I have at most 3-4 years left on my 30-year mortgage.I have been paying $100 extra for the last 4 years to save me 4 years according to the mortgage guy.At the time i had 12 and i asked him if i paid an extra 100 ,how many years could i save, he said 4. So i have. When I'm done with this, im planning on saving till retirement and getting a part-time job to keep me busy, long as it doesn't interfere with my golfing.At one time i was thinking about getting a new house at 15 years and work till i was 65, but i don't want to work that long or have the payments.62 is going to be hard as it is.35 years on concrete will tear down some legs and body.at 62 ill, have a monthly check from work,SS, and 401k. i figure that plus a partime job, possibly a walmart greeter doing nothing, will get me by easy.Thats the plan anyways.

I like your plan.

My dad retired at about 62-63. He probably needed to keep working a bit more but he's never regretted it. Looking back, he made the right decision. He's still had enough money to do what he needs to do with some spending/fun money on the side. He's not a big spender and he doesn't travel much at all so he didn't need as much money.

Oddly enough, the place where he worked started calling him a few months after he retired and asked him to come back and work a few days a week. Now some 13 years later, he's still working 2-3 days a week part time there- when he feels like it. It keeps him busy with some spending money and allows him time to hang out with his work friends. Plus, he knows he can say "no" anytime he doesn't want to work - like in the Spring or Summer when the weather is nice and he wants to work in his yard or garden.

I also felt like my wife and I would buy a slightly bigger house a few years ago (when I was about 48-49) but I didn't want to start over with a mortgage. So we have decided to add a room on the back of our house in the next year or so that will make our kitchen and living room a little bigger. We liked that better than starting over with a new house and having to pay more money for a house.

A lot of folks downsize in retirement anyway and I didn't want a big house to try to manage when I am retired. Higher utility bills for a bigger house don't sound appealing to me. Plus, I raised my kids in my current house and they didn't want us to sell. So staying put made a lot more financial and emotional sense.
 
Agree....I remember the old mortgage burning parties people used to have. Burned mine when I got the cancelled mortgage back with my wife while drinking a bottle of wine.
Better to burn a photocopy of the cancellation at the party. Keep the originals in a secure location. You never know when you might have to "show proof."
 
Better to burn a photocopy of the cancellation at the party. Keep the originals in a secure location. You never know when you might have to "show proof."
Eh, SC has a mandatory filing system. Its all on record with the County Register of Deeds. This is why people don't need the actual deed whenever they sell their house.
 
That's really not true for most people. I agree in the sense that your home is not an investment vehicle like stocks. But. Quick math.

Put $50k down on $500k house or into market.

5% home increase is $30k

You would need a 60% increase in stocks to hit that same number.

There are so many other factors to consider that of course are being ignored here. Just saying that realistically most people will make more in their house.
I assume he means extra money in the house, not skipping the house altogether. The $50k only increases to $2,500 in your scenario as opposed to $25k (not $30k) if we're looking at extra payments on a house. I agree with you overall that most people will do better with a house. Mathematically and for disciplined people, the stock market is better over the long term. Most people are not disciplined and will spend the excess though which is why housing is best for them.

I could be wrong with my first sentence. Not sure.
 
Home ownership in general is a bad investment. You'll always make more money in the market than in your home.
Not really. You have to live somewhere and interest rates are at historic lows. If you don't move often it won't take long for your mortgage to be less than renting. Homes generally appreciate at a higher level than current interest rates. Buy one in a decent growing area. Rent can add up quickly. Now if you know you are moving often then the transaction costs (realtors, loan costs) can change that equation.
 
That's really not true for most people. I agree in the sense that your home is not an investment vehicle like stocks. But. Quick math.

Put $50k down on $500k house or into market.

5% home increase is $30k

You would need a 60% increase in stocks to hit that same number.

There are so many other factors to consider that of course are being ignored here. Just saying that realistically most people will make more in their house.
In this scenario you would only have 50k in equity, not 500k...people forget this easily.

We certainly agree that home ownership is a pretty great goal. People are not often honest about the economics of it though, to the great benefit of banks and mortgage officers.
 
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That's really not true for most people. I agree in the sense that your home is not an investment vehicle like stocks. But. Quick math.

Put $50k down on $500k house or into market.

5% home increase is $30k

You would need a 60% increase in stocks to hit that same number.

There are so many other factors to consider that of course are being ignored here. Just saying that realistically most people will make more in their house.
Also depends on how good you negotiate the house price. I haggled on my current house last year and got it for 25k less than it appraised. Realtor called me last week and asked if I wanted to sell it and offered around 60k more than I paid. Also just sold my first house last month. It was a small 2 bed 1 bath that needed some work. Typical starter house. Bought it for 25k about 10 years ago. Dropped about 25k in upgrades but did most of the work myself. Sold it for 110k.
 
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Not really. You have to live somewhere and interest rates are at historic lows. If you don't move often it won't take long for your mortgage to be less than renting. Homes generally appreciate at a higher level than current interest rates. Buy one in a decent growing area. Rent can add up quickly. Now if you know you are moving often then the transaction costs (realtors, loan costs) can change that equation.
Home prices generally rise with inflation. Yeah, you can time it right at times and depending on the market there are outliers. But in general, they home values take a big hit from inflation.

Plus there are all the other costs that come with homeownership. Repairs, appliances, etc and the longer you live there the more outdated your home becomes which require costly remodels to update. Especially when you're trying to sell to cash out the profit.

Then as you said, you lose so much value if you have to relocate. Then there is opportunity costs lost if you refuse to locate because of your home. In the end, the home is basically savings account.
 
I like your plan.

My dad retired at about 62-63. He probably needed to keep working a bit more but he's never regretted it. Looking back, he made the right decision. He's still had enough money to do what he needs to do with some spending/fun money on the side. He's not a big spender and he doesn't travel much at all so he didn't need as much money.

Oddly enough, the place where he worked started calling him a few months after he retired and asked him to come back and work a few days a week. Now some 13 years later, he's still working 2-3 days a week part time there- when he feels like it. It keeps him busy with some spending money and allows him time to hang out with his work friends. Plus, he knows he can say "no" anytime he doesn't want to work - like in the Spring or Summer when the weather is nice and he wants to work in his yard or garden.

I also felt like my wife and I would buy a slightly bigger house a few years ago (when I was about 48-49) but I didn't want to start over with a mortgage. So we have decided to add a room on the back of our house in the next year or so that will make our kitchen and living room a little bigger. We liked that better than starting over with a new house and having to pay more money for a house.

A lot of folks downsize in retirement anyway and I didn't want a big house to try to manage when I am retired. Higher utility bills for a bigger house don't sound appealing to me. Plus, I raised my kids in my current house and they didn't want us to sell. So staying put made a lot more financial and emotional sense.
That thought has crossed my mind as well (working at my current employer) as some has come back after retirement.At the moment, we work 12 hrs rotating M/E shifts.I’ve told some of the older people there,they isn’t going to see me on the weekends pulling 36 hrs nights when I get 62. The bad or you could say good thing about working 12s on the weekends 2x a month is when the gamecocks are bad I don’t have the chance to watch.I miss about half the games for the last 10-11 years because of working the weekends.
 
In this scenario you would only have 50k in equity, not 500k...people forget this easily.

We certainly agree that home ownership is a pretty great goal. People are not often honest about the economics of it though, to the great benefit of banks and mortgage officers.

$80k in my scenario
 
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Where I am, home prices are crazy. Homes don’t stay on the market and typically get more than asking price. I bought my house 18 months ago and could sell it for 50-60% more than I bought it. The problem is that any proceeds would be taken in something else I would buy because I would have to buy high. I almost bought my neighbor’s house when I moved 18 months ago, but he pulled it off the market. He just sold last month for $240K more than what I was going to buy it from him 18 months ago - and he didn’t do anything (I.e renovations) to drive that increase in value. The actual appraised value on my house has increase nearly $200K in the same timeframe.

Disneyland is bringing 3500 employees from southern California and moving right around me. They have no problem paying crazy prices.

Instead of selling and moving, I am just leveraging the value.
 
The incredibly simple but hard to comprehend miracle of compound interest.

This thread just proves once again that otherwise completely intelligent people can't seem to understand the abstract concept enough to buy into it.

Reminds me of one of my employees who a decade ago asked me for advice on her 401k. I told her what to do because she had her entire savings in very low interest bearing low risk investments. I changed companies and recently she followed me to the new place as a part-timer. Somehow the subject came up again and I asked her if she ever changed her investments. She had not. I quickly did the math and showed her how much money it cost her. And this wasn't abstract this was the actual market as it has performed since about 2012 but I actually think it was earlier when we had the conversation.
She almost threw up.
 
The incredibly simple but hard to comprehend miracle of compound interest.

This thread just proves once again that otherwise completely intelligent people can't seem to understand the abstract concept enough to buy into it.

Reminds me of one of my employees who a decade ago asked me for advice on her 401k. I told her what to do because she had her entire savings in very low interest bearing low risk investments. I changed companies and recently she followed me to the new place as a part-timer. Somehow the subject came up again and I asked her if she ever changed her investments. She had not. I quickly did the math and showed her how much money it cost her. And this wasn't abstract this was the actual market as it has performed since about 2012 but I actually think it was earlier when we had the conversation.
She almost threw up.

I'm confused by which part of this thread proves that? I haven't seen anyone here disputing the value of compound interest.
 
We paid our mortgage off quickly by making 2 payments a month on our 15 year. 1 regular payment and 1 to the principal. You will be surprised how quickly the loan is paid off. I’m 50 years old and will never have another mortgage.
We’ve done the same. Bought a house 5 years ago. It’ll Be paid off in 5 more. I’ll be 42 and debt free!
 
As pointed out, it’s all dependent upon one’s goals and lifestyles as it relates to length of time in a place.
But how about when you retire? Personally, I’d like to travel some but I will have a place I call home, paid off instead of continuing to make rent payments
I believe for the majority of people it would be better to own than pay rent as their overall financial plan.
 
The incredibly simple but hard to comprehend miracle of compound interest.

This thread just proves once again that otherwise completely intelligent people can't seem to understand the abstract concept enough to buy into it.

Reminds me of one of my employees who a decade ago asked me for advice on her 401k. I told her what to do because she had her entire savings in very low interest bearing low risk investments. I changed companies and recently she followed me to the new place as a part-timer. Somehow the subject came up again and I asked her if she ever changed her investments. She had not. I quickly did the math and showed her how much money it cost her. And this wasn't abstract this was the actual market as it has performed since about 2012 but I actually think it was earlier when we had the conversation.
She almost threw up.
So many people like your employee. And then there are also many which do understand investing and manage to accumulate some money but they also have a large burden of debt with a home mortgage, cars, credit cards, education loans, etc so that their net worth is very low or even negative. So they are actually broke but believe that they are doing well.

One of my daughters and son-in-law recently did what the OP suggested. They refinanced their home at a higher interest rate, but for a longer period of time, in order to have a lower mortgage payment and invest the difference. The financial advisor showed them the numbers on how that would earn them more money. I listened to them, thinking it was bad advice and a bad idea, but didn't say anything because its none of my business.
 
Home ownership in general is a bad investment. You'll always make more money in the market than in your home.
Absolutes are tough. What are you investing in the market? Index fund like the sp500? How were the returns from 2000-2012? Returns have been great since then but past performance is not a guarantee. Once you have a fixed rate mortgage you know how much it will cost you to service the loan. How much is rent on a lakefront or other nice house? In many cases rent could be more than owning. In South Carolina property taxes are MUCH higher on non-residents than residents. A family member bought a house and is paying a little over 1200 a year in property taxes. The previous owner rented it out. He was paying over 7000 for the same property. That is reflected in the costs for the property and passed on to the renters. Someone owns the place you live and has to pay the taxes and maintenance and have some sort of return on the investment.
 
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Absolutes are tough. What are you investing in the market? Index fund like the sp500? How were the returns from 2000-2012? Returns have been great since then but past performance is not a guarantee. Once you have a fixed rate mortgage you know how much it will cost you to service the loan. How much is rent on a lakefront or other nice house? In many cases rent could be more than owning. In South Carolina property taxes are MUCH higher on non-residents than residents. A family member bought a house and is paying a little over 1200 a year in property taxes. The previous owner rented it out. He was paying over 7000 for the same property. That is reflected in the costs for the property and passed on to the renters. Someone owns the place you live and has to pay the taxes and maintenance and have some sort of return on the investment.
Bingo! I love it when renters for for my houses. Of course I hate when they break $hit
 
So many people like your employee. And then there are also many which do understand investing and manage to accumulate some money but they also have a large burden of debt with a home mortgage, cars, credit cards, education loans, etc so that their net worth is very low or even negative. So they are actually broke but believe that they are doing well.

One of my daughters and son-in-law recently did what the OP suggested. They refinanced their home at a higher interest rate, but for a longer period of time, in order to have a lower mortgage payment and invest the difference. The financial advisor showed them the numbers on how that would earn them more money. I listened to them, thinking it was bad advice and a bad idea, but didn't say anything because its none of my business.
I’m a financial advisor and that guy sounds like he wanted to line his own pocket. That’s crappy! Our job is to access the whole financial
Puzzle. First and foremost- get out of debt ASAP
 
Where I am, home prices are crazy. Homes don’t stay on the market and typically get more than asking price. I bought my house 18 months ago and could sell it for 50-60% more than I bought it. The problem is that any proceeds would be taken in something else I would buy because I would have to buy high.
That is certainly the issue. Yes, you can turn a good profit, but is it really a profit when you're spending all of it to replace what you just sold? To me, that's just taking from one hand and putting it in the other hand. I'd certainly be in favor of someone cashing in on their primary residence if they also have a rental that they can move into for a temporary period. Then, when a downturn happens (and it certainly will, I've seen and done business through the song, dance, and cycle through numerous up and downs), you pounce. Sell when everyone's buying, buy when everyone's selling. I know that isn't always possible, but it's the ideal way to do it.

Another thing, even with high material prices at the present, it's generally cheaper (per sq ft) to build than it is to buy existing. There's just a long construction lead time, which most people don't want to deal with.

My wife and I will be selling soon, already a buyer in place, was planned before the craziness. I've had a piece of property from before we were married that I always knew that I'd build my retirement home on (the land has tripled/quadrupled in value since I've owned it). We're downsizing in sq footage, but upsizing in amenities and larger living areas, we've got alot of unused sq footage presently with no kids at home. I've told her to expect at least a year start to finish, even though a house the size we're building would normally take 4-6 months in a normal environment.
 
I'm confused by which part of this thread proves that? I haven't seen anyone here disputing the value of compound interest.
Not specifically I suppose. But if you don't see the logic of the video in the original post and are arguing to spend more money paying off your house quickly than you're missing the point.
 
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So many people like your employee. And then there are also many which do understand investing and manage to accumulate some money but they also have a large burden of debt with a home mortgage, cars, credit cards, education loans, etc so that their net worth is very low or even negative. So they are actually broke but believe that they are doing well.

One of my daughters and son-in-law recently did what the OP suggested. They refinanced their home at a higher interest rate, but for a longer period of time, in order to have a lower mortgage payment and invest the difference. The financial advisor showed them the numbers on how that would earn them more money. I listened to them, thinking it was bad advice and a bad idea, but didn't say anything because its none of my business.
Obviously taking on even more debt and especially at higher interest rates would negate any advantage. Certainly it's a balance. It also takes discipline. That's something in short supply.
 
Not specifically I suppose. But if you don't see the logic of the video in the original post and are arguing to spend more money paying off your house quickly than you're missing the point.

Got ya. I didn't even watch the video. Just read the responses. I avoid clicking random links. Even if it's just insta. Not trying to get my algorithm all jacked up.

I think for some people it makes sense to pay more on their mortgage. Assuming their investments are in order. The return may be less but for some that's not such a big deal.
 
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Not specifically I suppose. But if you don't see the logic of the video in the original post and are arguing to spend more money paying off your house quickly than you're missing the point.
You don't have to spend more money to payoff your mortgage more quickly. You can simply split the regular payment and pay half on the 15th before the payment is due and the remainder on the due date. You will end up with approximately 7 years off a 30-year mortgage.
 
You don't have to spend more money to payoff your mortgage more quickly. You can simply split the regular payment and pay half on the 15th before the payment is due and the remainder on the due date. You will end up with approximately 7 years off a 30-year mortgage.
I think you are confusing bi-weekly payments with doing what you are describing and just splitting up the mortgage into two payments. Bi-weekly payments can shorten a 30 year mortgage by about 6 years. But that is primarily because you are making extra payments. Basically an extra monthly payment each year. Some months (twice a year) you would be paying 3 times instead of two. Doing what you describe would not save 7 years.

https://www.mortgagecalculator.org/helpful-advice/bi-weekly-payments.php

https://www.chase.com/personal/mort...-a-home/monthly-vs-biweekly-mortgage-payments
 
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