Our Success and its relationship to Clemson

[gamecockox]

I hate Clemson.I hate anything and everything Clemson related. My sons learned well because when my youngest was in preschool he refused to drink orange soft drink because it was "yucky tiger color". I have never owned anything orange.I hate them with zeal. Growing up in the upstate in the 70's & 80's
It was unbearable. I hate Clemson!!!

Many of you feel the same way. There is a problem with this thinking and it is often rampant on this board. Because of our hatred we have given them to much influence. we tend to think of everything in relation to them. A great weekend is when we win and they lose and it is terrible if the opposite occurs. This form of thinking makes us impatient and unable to see the forrest for the trees. I gave Clemson and thier administration a lot of credit for objectivly looking at Dabo during his losing streak and seeing the big picture. if the roles where reversed we would not have been patient enough for him to succeed. Right now we can not judge Muschamp, his coaching, recruiting ect. by comparing him to Clemson. if Clemson is the only measuring stick we are giving them to much credit!

 

[LazyIslander]

If Clemson is the measuring stick, most schools would currently fall short. (Assuming we're only talking about football programs.)

 

[gamecockox]

Yes. Talking football. in other sports I do not see this problem as much.

 

[jimmydaleabercrombie]

I hate Clemson.I hate anything and everything Clemson related. My sons learned well because when my youngest was in preschool he refused to drink orange soft drink because it was "yucky tiger color". I have never owned anything orange.I hate them with zeal. Growing up in the upstate in the 70's & 80's
It was unbearable. I hate Clemson!!!

Many of you feel the same way. There is a problem with this thinking and it is often rampant on this board. Because of our hatred we have given them to much influence. we tend to think of everything in relation to them. A great weekend is when we win and they lose and it is terrible if the opposite occurs. This form of thinking makes us impatient and unable to see the forrest for the trees. I gave Clemson and thier administration a lot of credit for objectivly looking at Dabo during his losing streak and seeing the big picture. if the roles where reversed we would not have been patient enough for him to succeed. Right now we can not judge Muschamp, his coaching, recruiting ect. by comparing him to Clemson. if Clemson is the only measuring stick we are giving them to much credit!

It's only natural. Believe me, when we won 5 straight, they were doing the same thing is reverse...

 

[statelinecock]

Clemson is a current top 4 program in the Country right now. We just lost to them by 49 points. No comparison. Hopefully that will change but a worlds difference right now.

 

[mwboozer]

As a Clemson fan, I see SC's program doing some good things right now. The staff at SC can recruit, no doubt. There will be opportunity for SC to pick up some very good players in state because Clemson is recruiting on a national level (Bryan Edwards, Shi SMith and OrTre Smith).

Those guys can win football games at SC. Clemson simply has the opportunity to recruit better, currently. What you hope for as an SC fan is that you coach those guys well enough to close that talent gap and catch Clemson.

One thing that SC fans fail to realize was that during "the streak", Clemson was still doing some darn good things. Losing to SC hurt, no doubt, but we were still progressing as a program under Dabo, and those were some really good SC teams that we were losing to. There was never one inkiling to get rid of Dabo during those 5 years. No matter what some idiot Clemson fan may tell you. Beating SC is great, but it certainly doesn't define our football program.

 

[uscdoug]

As a Clemson fan, I see SC's program doing some good things right now. The staff at SC can recruit, no doubt. There will be opportunity for SC to pick up some very good players in state because Clemson is recruiting on a national level (Bryan Edwards, Shi SMith and OrTre Smith).

Those guys can win football games at SC. Clemson simply has the opportunity to recruit better, currently. What you hope for as an SC fan is that you coach those guys well enough to close that talent gap and catch Clemson.

One thing that SC fans fail to realize was that during "the streak", Clemson was still doing some darn good things. Losing to SC hurt, no doubt, but we were still progressing as a program under Dabo, and those were some really good SC teams that we were losing to. There was never one inkiling to get rid of Dabo during those 5 years. No matter what some idiot Clemson fan may tell you. Beating SC is great, but it certainly doesn't define our football program.

One thing that Clempsom fans fail to realize is that we don't care what you think.
You are not wanted here so just go away....move on~!

 

[SpursUPgunsOUT]

I hate Clemson.I hate anything and everything Clemson related. My sons learned well because when my youngest was in preschool he refused to drink orange soft drink because it was "yucky tiger color". I have never owned anything orange.I hate them with zeal. Growing up in the upstate in the 70's & 80's
It was unbearable. I hate Clemson!!!

Many of you feel the same way. There is a problem with this thinking and it is often rampant on this board. Because of our hatred we have given them to much influence. we tend to think of everything in relation to them. A great weekend is when we win and they lose and it is terrible if the opposite occurs. This form of thinking makes us impatient and unable to see the forrest for the trees. I gave Clemson and thier administration a lot of credit for objectivly looking at Dabo during his losing streak and seeing the big picture. if the roles where reversed we would not have been patient enough for him to succeed. Right now we can not judge Muschamp, his coaching, recruiting ect. by comparing him to Clemson. if Clemson is the only measuring stick we are giving them to much credit!

How were the taters looking past the streak? They taters sucked under Bowden, but were able to beat some of our worst teams. He was winning more games than the previous coach. ...

This is the worst example. We improved year one under Muschamp and that's all that matters. Next year we should also improve cover year two. Then improve over year three. It's not rocket science, justb improve each year. We have a young qb and success will follow. If for some reason it doesn't, them a change will be made.

 

[NooNoo]

Geez man, why be an ahole?

One thing that Clempsom fans fail to realize is that we don't care what you think.
You are not wanted here so just go away....move on~!

 

[uscdoug]

Geez man, why be an ahole?

My remarks were made in response to the post by mwbooser. The post was a backhanded attempt to compliment USC> It was, however, nothing but another condescending shot at usc and lots of bravado for the greatness of the tigs.
While you may like those types of post, I certainly do not!
You might want to reread the post.

 

[mwboozer]

My remarks were made in response to the post by mwbooser. The post was a backhanded attempt to compliment USC> It was, however, nothing but another condescending shot at usc and lots of bravado for the greatness of the tigs.
While you may like those types of post, I certainly do not!
You might want to reread the post.

There was nothing backhanded at all. Clemson is a far better football program thanSouth Carolina right now. It is not even close. Now, I live in Columbia, have a ton of SC fans that I care about/are friends of mine, and i shared my positive observations about the SC football program. There is nothing that I said that is not true. SC has benefitted in state on some recruits that Clemson didn't take because it had more national recruits in the crosshairs.

SC improved this season, and the SEC east is there for the taking. Comparing your football program to Clemson's right now is not going to be favorable. If you want me to be an ass hole, that can be arranged, your feelings will be hurt, and I will be banned.

 

[uscdoug]

There was nothing backhanded at all. Clemson is a far better football program thanSouth Carolina right now. It is not even close. Now, I live in Columbia, have a ton of SC fans that I care about/are friends of mine, and i shared my positive observations about the SC football program. There is nothing that I said that is not true. SC has benefitted in state on some recruits that Clemson didn't take because it had more national recruits in the crosshairs.

SC improved this season, and the SEC east is there for the taking. Comparing your football program to Clemson's right now is not going to be favorable. If you want me to be an ass hole, that can be arranged, your feelings will be hurt, and I will be banned.

Fact is, you are not wanted here.
Only obnoxious asshats, go where they are not wanted.
Now go away.

 

[joplin gamecock1]

The thing is,when gamecock fans go to work everyday,to church or school,or just to get a gallon or a tank of gas, we dont have to hear repeatidly how great arizona,or b.y.u.,or any of a hundred schools are and how theyre coach is the coming of Bear Bryant.That all they live for is to remiind every one to adnausium how mighty and perfect they are and wat sad lil putters we are

 

[UpstateGamecock2]

My remarks were made in response to the post by mwbooser. The post was a backhanded attempt to compliment USC> It was, however, nothing but another condescending shot at usc and lots of bravado for the greatness of the tigs.
While you may like those types of post, I certainly do not!
You might want to reread the post.

That's what most of the clemsux trolls are doing on a Carolina board. The sad thing is, the mods let them get away with it and then chastise Carolina fans. It's bizzare.

 

[mavcock]

Can we please act like fans and not middle school kids? Some Clemson fans come over here and make decent arguments and have good points that they make. Quit being such dickheads to them. Some are classless, yes. But these guys in the thread aren't that type in my opinion. Give them a break.

 

[vehemon]

This is an interesting late night thread.

 

[CockHoff]

Clemson administration will make the hard calls. They fired Lip Quiver for being an 8 or 9 win coach. They got pissed when we passed them in baseball and they fired HoFer Jackleg because we were better than them. Our admin lets things linger. Horn, maybe Holbrook, Spurrier-yes he had our best ever run but he quit 2 years before he quit. Hell, our one great coach we moved to AD. Now the taters are catching up in baseball again.I don't think Muschamp is the answer but we need to at least give him a few years. If you can't win at Florida something is wrong. They are still trying to recover offensively to what he did to them. Anyway, they get pissed about losing and fix it. We get beat by 49 and take it like a bunch of female dogs and make up race claims. Sorry, that shiz gets me fired up.

 

[ClemsonEstudiante2017]

fwiw @UpstateGamecock2 is a Clemson fan trolling. Has been for quite a while

 

[vehemon]

Clemson administration will make the hard calls. They fired Lip Quiver for being an 8 or 9 win coach. They got pissed when we passed them in baseball and they fired HoFer Jackleg because we were better than them. Our admin lets things linger. Horn, maybe Holbrook, Spurrier-yes he had our best ever run but he quit 2 years before he quit. Hell, our one great coach we moved to AD. Now the taters are catching up in baseball again.I don't think Muschamp is the answer but we need to at least give him a few years. If you can't win at Florida something is wrong. They are still trying to recover offensively to what he did to them. Anyway, they get pissed about losing and fix it. We get beat by 49 and take it like a bunch of female dogs and make up race claims. Sorry, that shiz gets me fired up.

Chill brother bill. They are catching up because they won the series last year in baseball? Step awaaaaaaaay from the ledge.

 

[Titleist*]

I hate Clemson.I hate anything and everything Clemson related. My sons learned well because when my youngest was in preschool he refused to drink orange soft drink because it was "yucky tiger color". I have never owned anything orange.I hate them with zeal. Growing up in the upstate in the 70's & 80's
It was unbearable. I hate Clemson!!!

Many of you feel the same way. There is a problem with this thinking and it is often rampant on this board. Because of our hatred we have given them to much influence. we tend to think of everything in relation to them. A great weekend is when we win and they lose and it is terrible if the opposite occurs. This form of thinking makes us impatient and unable to see the forrest for the trees. I gave Clemson and thier administration a lot of credit for objectivly looking at Dabo during his losing streak and seeing the big picture. if the roles where reversed we would not have been patient enough for him to succeed. Right now we can not judge Muschamp, his coaching, recruiting ect. by comparing him to Clemson. if Clemson is the only measuring stick we are giving them to much credit!

They went 6-7, and lost 29-7 to us in tater valley in 2010. Dabadouche was on thin ice. Taters were calling for his neck...several of my tater friends weren't sold on his cheer-boy quips. Despite all of that, the iptay high rollers doubled down by extending the asshats contract, including a massive buyout clause. Those same deep pocket taters spent millions on coordinators and assistants, realizing dabadouche by himself was not capable. Finally, they flooded recruits with orange currency...they did the same following their 56-20 beat down in 1975, only to go on probation a few years later. Is it only a matter of time before the taters are on probation again?

Interestingly, dabadouche is never mentioned in any coaching searches.

 

[UpstateGamecock2]

fwiw @UpstateGamecock2 is a Clemson fan trolling. Has been for quite a while

Haha. How many user names have you gone through? Yeah, you're credible. We believe you. Really, we do. Behahaha.

 

[ClemsonEstudiante2017]

They went 6-7, and lost 29-7 to us in tater valley in 2010. Dabadouche was on thin ice. Taters were calling for his neck...several of my tater friends weren't sold on his cheer-boy quips. Despite all of that, the iptay high rollers doubled down by extending the asshats contract, including a massive buyout clause. Those same deep pocket taters spent millions on coordinators and assistants, realizing dabadouche by himself was not capable. Finally, they flooded recruits with orange currency...they did the same following their 56-20 beat down in 1975, only to go on probation a few years later. Is it only a matter of time before the taters are on probation again?

Interestingly, dabadouche is never mentioned in any coaching searches.

You answered this in your post. Huge buyout. No school is going to pay $18 million just to get a coach before they even start paying him and putting a staff together.

Haha. How many user names have you gone through? Yeah, you're credible. We believe you. Really, we do. Behahaha.

I think 2 or 3. Your persistence in using clemsux and ability to include "Clemsux will be pulling a Clemsux soon" is the mark of a troll. It's obvious. If in fact you aren't trolling and are an actual "fan", then I truly feel sorry for you.

 

[UpstateGamecock2]

You answered this in your post. Huge buyout. No school is going to pay $18 million just to get a coach before they even start paying him and putting a staff together.

I think 2 or 3. Your persistence in using clemsux and ability to include "Clemsux will be pulling a Clemsux soon" is the mark of a troll. It's obvious. If in fact you aren't trolling and are an actual "fan", then I truly feel sorry for you.

2 or 3? Right! I feel sorry that you need to create multiple user names to troll your rival's board. Lots of those clemsux fans on here.

 

[coxman]

Chill brother bill. They are catching up because they won the series last year in baseball? Step awaaaaaaaay from the ledge.

No, they are passing us because they have Monte Lee while we have the Chad.

 

[MANAFOLD]

I hate Clemson.I hate anything and everything Clemson related. My sons learned well because when my youngest was in preschool he refused to drink orange soft drink because it was "yucky tiger color". I have never owned anything orange.I hate them with zeal. Growing up in the upstate in the 70's & 80's
It was unbearable. I hate Clemson!!!

Many of you feel the same way. There is a problem with this thinking and it is often rampant on this board. Because of our hatred we have given them to much influence. we tend to think of everything in relation to them. A great weekend is when we win and they lose and it is terrible if the opposite occurs. This form of thinking makes us impatient and unable to see the forrest for the trees. I gave Clemson and thier administration a lot of credit for objectivly looking at Dabo during his losing streak and seeing the big picture. if the roles where reversed we would not have been patient enough for him to succeed. Right now we can not judge Muschamp, his coaching, recruiting ect. by comparing him to Clemson. if Clemson is the only measuring stick we are giving them to much credit!

Another reason for the Taters to have patience with Swinney was because they didn't have the money to hire anyone else.

 

[ClemsonEstudiante2017]

2 or 3? Right! I feel sorry that you need to create multiple user names to troll your rival's board. Lots of those clemsux fans on here.

The old ones were just for trolls and silliness. This one is for real discussion

 

[UpstateGamecock2]

The old ones were just for trolls and silliness. This one is for real discussion

Of course it is. You joined Nov 27. Tells us everything we need to know.

I agree with @92Pony, put all the clemsux fans on ignore. Ya'll can chat with yourselves.

 

[bdblack]

There was nothing backhanded at all. Clemson is a far better football program thanSouth Carolina right now. It is not even close. Now, I live in Columbia, have a ton of SC fans that I care about/are friends of mine, and i shared my positive observations about the SC football program. There is nothing that I said that is not true. SC has benefitted in state on some recruits that Clemson didn't take because it had more national recruits in the crosshairs.

SC improved this season, and the SEC east is there for the taking. Comparing your football program to Clemson's right now is not going to be favorable. If you want me to be an ass hole, that can be arranged, your feelings will be hurt, and I will be banned.

Hey man, you are welcome here for civil discussions with most of us! I honestly have to agree with all of your facts stated. And don't worry about having your posts removed from this board, unless, of course, you are a Gamecock supporter and you happen to give empirical, indisputable evidence about a certain Gamecock rivals star player's lack of humility....... now that, my friend, will truly upset some Gamecock fans as well as the powers that be behind this board!

 

[lexgamecock]

Well we had a great run with in state players like Gilmore, Lattimore, Clowney, etc...Then our coaching staff got depleted (lazy) and the talent dried up. I feel good about our current staff. I think they'll get the best players available and the upcoming in-state talent looks good. Clemson has been fortunate to land very good out of state players. Some have worked out some not. The QB is the key. Look at what Cam did for AU a few years back. Clemson will not be at the same level without Watson no matter what their fans say. You just don't replace someone with his talent. Look at us after Shaw left. Bentley will be a great QB for us and will attract the talent we need. We'll be fine.

 

[CockHoff]

Chill brother bill. They are catching up because they won the series last year in baseball? Step awaaaaaaaay from the ledge.

You missed the point. They didn't just accept us winning titles. They fired a popular HoF coach to shake it up because we are/were better. Our administration has no balls to try something different - another retread coach in Muschamp. We should have gone after Herman or Fuentes. Oh, and I like Monte Lee. Don't know if I'd take him over the Chad, but both are good coaches.

 

[Titleist*]

You answered this in your post. Huge buyout. No school is going to pay $18 million just to get a coach before they even start paying him and putting a staff together.

I think 2 or 3. Your persistence in using clemsux and ability to include "Clemsux will be pulling a Clemsux soon" is the mark of a troll. It's obvious. If in fact you aren't trolling and are an actual "fan", then I truly feel sorry for you.

Could be wrong, but I don't think dabadouche has an $18MM buyout...more like $5-6MM. Not chump change, but certainly doable for any viable program. There's just no demand for dabadouche's services.

Interestingly, Muschamp's buyout is $7MM.

http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...inney-agree-six-year-30-million-contract-2021

 

[SHillTIger]

They went 6-7, and lost 29-7 to us in tater valley in 2010. Dabadouche was on thin ice. Taters were calling for his neck...several of my tater friends weren't sold on his cheer-boy quips. Despite all of that, the iptay high rollers doubled down by extending the asshats contract, including a massive buyout clause. Those same deep pocket taters spent millions on coordinators and assistants, realizing dabadouche by himself was not capable. Finally, they flooded recruits with orange currency...they did the same following their 56-20 beat down in 1975, only to go on probation a few years later. Is it only a matter of time before the taters are on probation again?

Interestingly, dabadouche is never mentioned in any coaching searches.

There is so much wrong with this post its not even funny. First off Dabos seat might have been a little warm in 2010 but he wasnt in danger of being fired. He said he would fix the offense. He went out and hired Chad Morris for 450k. Do you think the "high rollers" had any say in that? I doubt it considering the guy was one year removed from high school. Dabo saw something he liked and it worked out. WV beat down happens. Dabo says " I will fix it". Dabo hires Venables who doesnt wanna go from DC to Co-DC at OU for 750K a year and the defense improves. Clemson keeps improving through recruiting. During this time Dabo turns down a raise and tells the school to split it among his assistants. The assistants earned those millions by DOING THEIR JOB AND WINNING!!!!!. Dabo didnt get the massive raise to 5 mil and crazy buyout until Clemson already had 5 10+ win seasons. Dabo is way more capable that you or many Gamecock fans give him credit for. You dont walk on a Bama without knowing what your doing. You dont get called by Bowden after being out of coaching unless you know what your doing and you dont get a job offer from Nick Saban unless you know what your doing.

As for your comment about the orange currency. Dabos first couple of classes were not over the top good but they found a way to win more than they lost. Take those first few winning seasons and add a coaching staff(and staff changes) that is relentless in recruiting and selling the program and the school helps you get better classes and more wins. Then add in facility upgrades and you take it to another level. Dabo has done that and its paying off.

 

[uscdoug]

There is so much wrong with this post its not even funny. First off Dabos seat might have been a little warm in 2010 but he wasnt in danger of being fired. He said he would fix the offense. He went out and hired Chad Morris for 450k. Do you think the "high rollers" had any say in that? I doubt it considering the guy was one year removed from high school. Dabo saw something he liked and it worked out. WV beat down happens. Dabo says " I will fix it". Dabo hires Venables who doesnt wanna go from DC to Co-DC at OU for 750K a year and the defense improves. Clemson keeps improving through recruiting. During this time Dabo turns down a raise and tells the school to split it among his assistants. The assistants earned those millions by DOING THEIR JOB AND WINNING!!!!!. Dabo didnt get the massive raise to 5 mil and crazy buyout until Clemson already had 5 10+ win seasons. Dabo is way more capable that you or many Gamecock fans give him credit for. You dont walk on a Bama without knowing what your doing. You dont get called by Bowden after being out of coaching unless you know what your doing and you dont get a job offer from Nick Saban unless you know what your doing.

As for your comment about the orange currency. Dabos first couple of classes were not over the top good but they found a way to win more than they lost. Take those first few winning seasons and add a coaching staff(and staff changes) that is relentless in recruiting and selling the program and the school helps you get better classes and more wins. Then add in facility upgrades and you take it to another level. Dabo has done that and its paying off.

You forgot to credit your bag man.
You know, the 2015 version of BC......yeah, that one!

 

[SHillTIger]

You forgot to credit your bag man.
You know, the 2015 version of BC......yeah, that one!

Whatever. I know no program is squeaky clean but if you believe Clemson is outright paying all these top recruits and you have proof then send it in to the NCAA and ACC. Otherwise its just sour grapes.

 

[CockHoff]

Whatever. I know no program is squeaky clean but if you believe Clemson is outright paying all these top recruits and you have proof then send it in to the NCAA and ACC. Otherwise its just sour grapes.

I'd hope we are squeaky clean. If we are paying players we are doing it wrong.

 

[coxwwod]

Fact is, you are not wanted here.
Only obnoxious asshats, go where they are not wanted.
Now go away.

Hey boozer, FYI all three players you mentioned were recruited by clemmers and chose USC! There will be more just sit back and enjoy.

 

[Titleist*]

There is so much wrong with this post its not even funny. First off Dabos seat might have been a little warm in 2010 but he wasnt in danger of being fired. He said he would fix the offense. He went out and hired Chad Morris for 450k. Do you think the "high rollers" had any say in that? I doubt it considering the guy was one year removed from high school. Dabo saw something he liked and it worked out. WV beat down happens. Dabo says " I will fix it". Dabo hires Venables who doesnt wanna go from DC to Co-DC at OU for 750K a year and the defense improves. Clemson keeps improving through recruiting. During this time Dabo turns down a raise and tells the school to split it among his assistants. The assistants earned those millions by DOING THEIR JOB AND WINNING!!!!!. Dabo didnt get the massive raise to 5 mil and crazy buyout until Clemson already had 5 10+ win seasons. Dabo is way more capable that you or many Gamecock fans give him credit for. You dont walk on a Bama without knowing what your doing. You dont get called by Bowden after being out of coaching unless you know what your doing and you dont get a job offer from Nick Saban unless you know what your doing.

As for your comment about the orange currency. Dabos first couple of classes were not over the top good but they found a way to win more than they lost. Take those first few winning seasons and add a coaching staff(and staff changes) that is relentless in recruiting and selling the program and the school helps you get better classes and more wins. Then add in facility upgrades and you take it to another level. Dabo has done that and its paying off.

Dabadouche's seat was hot after 2010...deny it all you want, but the vultures were circling. The Chad wasn't hired until after the 2011 season...Venerbles was hired in 2012. Both were paid over $1MM/year. Clempson's 2011 class ranked 8th...after a 6-7 season...but no cash exchanged hands...right?!?

 

[SHillTIger]

Dabadouche's seat was hot after 2010...deny it all you want, but the vultures were circling. The Chad wasn't hired until after the 2011 season...Venerbles was hired in 2012. Both were paid over $1MM/year. Clempson's 2011 class ranked 8th...after a 6-7 season...but no cash exchanged hands...right?!?

Either your a troll or you dont know how to read. Dabos seat was warm in 2010 no doubt. Beyond that your dates are ALL wrong. Morris was hired after the 2010 season(not 2011 as your stated) in Jan 2011 for 450K a year. Clemson went 10-4 and Morris was given a raise to 1.3 million in Dec of 2011 after some other schools wanted to interview him. Orange bowl beat down was in Jan of 2012. Steele was fired less than a week after that game. Venables was hired near the end of Jan 2012. Contract was 4 years at 800K a year. He didnt make over a million until he got a raise in Jan 2015. Just for good measure out current Co-OCs made 400k each their first year and 600K each this season.
Im not gonna address the class ranking/money garbage except to say. Proof it or its just whining.

 

[IBleedUSC]

Either your a troll or you dont know how to read. Dabos seat was warm in 2010 no doubt. Beyond that your dates are ALL wrong. Morris was hired after the 2010 season(not 2011 as your stated) in Jan 2011 for 450K a year. Clemson went 10-4 and Morris was given a raise to 1.3 million in Dec of 2011 after some other schools wanted to interview him. Orange bowl beat down was in Jan of 2012. Steele was fired less than a week after that game. Venables was hired near the end of Jan 2012. Contract was 4 years at 800K a year. He didnt make over a million until he got a raise in Jan 2015. Just for good measure out current Co-OCs made 400k each their first year and 600K each this season.
Im not gonna address the class ranking/money garbage except to say. Proof it or its just whining.

Proof it.... lol

 

[SHillTIger]

Yea yea. Same lame pictures that always get posted. Show me something other than Bellamy or the Kenneth Page pictures. If those were really proof then we would have been nailed years ago.