So you already have it in your mind that Beamer and his staff can’t evaluate talent and develop it? Cmon man.
Rivals 2022 Football Recruiting Class Rankings ... Clempson #36? Is that real?
- Thread starter Mr CockStrong
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I have no idea if they can. Neither do you. That’s why it’s silly for the guy to say we will certainly develop this class better than Clemson will theirs.
Hmm...this thread encouraged me to do a little research and this is what I found:
The numbers suggest that Clemson was playing with 87 scholarship players vs 85 in the 2021 season. Yes, I realize that super seniors do not count against the NCAA's 85 scholarship limit, but those super seniors were NOT included in the latest Clemson Scholarship Breakdown which showed them with 78 scholarship players prior to adding the newcomers from the 2022 recruiting class.
Clemson had 9 scholarship players enter the transfer portal during the season:
12/11/2021 - Ajou Ajou - transfer portal
12/3/2021 - Frank Ladson Jr. - transfer portal
12/3/2021 - Taisun Phommachanh* - transfer portal
12/2/2021 - Ray Thornton* - transfer portal
11/29/2021 - Kane Patterson - transfer portal
11/09/2021 - Paul Tchio - transfer portal
10/19/2021 - Michel Dukes - transfer portal
10/18/2021 - Joseph Charleston - transfer portal
9/20/2021 - Lyn-J Dixon - transfer portal
Those 9 added to the current 78 put them at 87 scholarship players on their roster for 2021, clearly an NCAA violation - and a very serious one at that.
The numbers suggest that Clemson was playing with 87 scholarship players vs 85 in the 2021 season. Yes, I realize that super seniors do not count against the NCAA's 85 scholarship limit, but those super seniors were NOT included in the latest Clemson Scholarship Breakdown which showed them with 78 scholarship players prior to adding the newcomers from the 2022 recruiting class.
Clemson had 9 scholarship players enter the transfer portal during the season:
12/11/2021 - Ajou Ajou - transfer portal
12/3/2021 - Frank Ladson Jr. - transfer portal
12/3/2021 - Taisun Phommachanh* - transfer portal
12/2/2021 - Ray Thornton* - transfer portal
11/29/2021 - Kane Patterson - transfer portal
11/09/2021 - Paul Tchio - transfer portal
10/19/2021 - Michel Dukes - transfer portal
10/18/2021 - Joseph Charleston - transfer portal
9/20/2021 - Lyn-J Dixon - transfer portal
Those 9 added to the current 78 put them at 87 scholarship players on their roster for 2021, clearly an NCAA violation - and a very serious one at that.
I'm thinking there's an explanation, because I doubt the NCAA is just missing that Clemson has more schollies than everyone else.
I'm betting g it's yet another side effect of rona rules.
Are you referring to the same NCAA that just happened to miss UNC players not going to classes for 10 years? OK...
I can assure you that my math is correct and that the numbers associated with Covid have been taken into consideration. But, I would like to hear an 'explanation' from some of the resident taters on this board.
I'll hang up and listen.
So you think quantity is as good as quality? I guess if you could put 15 guys on the field against the opponent's 11 it would. Otherwise no. Quality trumps quantity. This reminds me of when clemsux had a class a few years ago of only 15 guys. That's all they needed and it was one of their better classes even though not ranked high due to numbers. They subsequently played in the NC.
It's not a violation. They can have as many as they want right now. It won't be a violation unless they show up at summer camp in August with over 85 scholarship players. If they are over I'm sure they will have that fixed by then. They aren't the brightest people around, but I'm pretty sure at least 80% of them can count to 85.
I just said that size matters (regardless of what she tells you), didn't say star rankings don't matter. I didn't even compare the two or say one is more important than the other, you have to look at them together. If Clemson only had one recruit and he was a five star, the class would still suck. If we only had 40 towel boys committed our class would suck. I think here our 12 extra 3*s gives our class the advantage when you look at this class BY ITSELF, can't factor in other classes or they'll fill it next year yada yada. Rivals and 247 say we're better, once you've done the same amount of work as them on defining rankings and developing a methodology I'll listen to you. For now, your logic is garbage, you picked out one example of one class that was probably surrounded by a bunch of other classes, and the 15 players were still on a team with 85 scholarship players. It's easy to watch highlights and say it's all about the handful of difference makers, but football is a team sport.
If you're a clemson fan and feel bad about your tiny class go buy a lift kit for your truck and some big tires and go cruise around taterville.
Why don't you try to prove me wrong rather than make some dumbass, snide comment?
And USC has this under control?
South Carolina Gamecocks Football Scholarship Breakdown — GamecockCentral.com — South Carolina Gamecocks
Since 1998, insider and in-depth coverage of South Carolina Gamecocks football, baseball, basketball and recruiting. Rivals.com affiliate. Home of The Insiders Forum.
go.gamecockcentral.com
Until you have 3-4 on the injured list and half a dozen on Covid protocol - then lack of quantity gets you beat.
Based upon your response, you obviously have no concept of how and when the 85 scholarship roster limit comes into play. Two completely different scenarios come into play when talking about Clemson's scholarship breakdown DURING the season, and our CURRENT scholarship breakdown.And USC has this under control?
South Carolina Gamecocks Football Scholarship Breakdown — GamecockCentral.com — South Carolina Gamecocks
Since 1998, insider and in-depth coverage of South Carolina Gamecocks football, baseball, basketball and recruiting. Rivals.com affiliate. Home of The Insiders Forum.
Clemson actually had 87 players on scholarship during the season which is a serious NCAA violation.
Their current breakdown AFTER all the defections to the portal, declarations for the NFL draft, and any medical hardship cases, still shows them with 78 players on scholarship.
IF you add back in the 9 player who entered the transfer portal DURING the season, that gives them 87 players on scholarship DURING the past season.
Every team in the nation is currently over the 85 player limit with the addition of the players from the 2022 recruiting class. But, teams have until the first game of the 2022 season to pare down those scholarship numbers in order to reach the maximum allowed of 85.
Understand now?
average star rating, of course it is, would we be better off with their class? no way in hell as we are already shorthanded. shouldnt you be on tigernet?
1) No, they hate me on tiger net.
2) Would we better off with a 5 star QB and two 4 star offensive lineman? Probably.
well i dont hesitate to say are wrong in that line of thinking. we have been playing shorthanded and we need the depth. do we need o-linemen? hell yes we do, but we have some talented linemen that need coaching also. hopefully that is being worked on. you dont seem to be very well liked here either and there is only one common denominator. perhaps you should take a look at that
I think monitoring class attendance is a little different than a schollie limit, but, rather than have this turn into another Newspring situation, I went ahead and looked.
I think the discrepancy is the redshirts. It was taternet link, so I won't sully the board with it, but the 78 schollie breakdown included 7 redshirts. It was odd though, as positions like OL listed 15 schollies, and it included the red shirts, but the WR number seemed to not include the lone red shirt.
It also had two players with half scholarships, which surprised me, I hadn't seen that before.
This made sense to me as the complaints I've seen on clemson boards is that they were handing out so many schollies to walk ons last year because they haven't been signing full classes.
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It’s about thinking logical. In this new era of college football, All of Clemson 12 signees won’t play for them so they maybe have 5-7 guys pan out on the other hand with our class we could have 12 players or more pan out. That would mathematically be more than Clemson. The stars doesn’t mean anything if you can’t develop them. DJ was a 5 star QB and look how he looked for them.
Redshirts still count toward the 85 scholarship limit. The redshirt simply allows a scholarship player to get bigger, stronger, faster, learn the playbook, etc while not having that season count against their eligibility as long they don't play in more than 4 games.
The Edwards twins have been on scholarship since August 2019, and I have brought up the fact they were listed as being awarded 'half scholarships' in the past - many times. That also is anther NCAA violation.
Even if you combine both of them into one scholarship, Clemson would still be at 86 on the season and guilty of an even bigger NCAA violation - one where using an 'ineligible player' leads to forfeits.
Thinking logically tells me they are in the playoffs almost every year while we struggle to make even lower bowls. We need a sustained run again before you're going to convince me we do anything better than them. Your star comment is laughable and proven wrong every single year.
I honestly didn't know that about red shirts. That surprises me about the numbers more (for everyone). Teams sign 25 a year, with 4 full classes of that, plus a portion of one class ( say red shirt seniors), then that makes that attrition more than I was thinking.
I'll let you run with the half scholarship thing. I looked it up and found articles about them, and the scholarship tracker specifically lists them as half scholarships. (Granted previously walk ons, if that makes any difference). But it doesn't seem to be treated as any sort of secret, they're quite in the open about it.
And I do feel dirty digging around in all this (thanks 😁 ), but I may have found your discrepancy. On the tracker showing 78 schollies, they list 2 qbs who were walkons this year, and awarded schollies after the season ended.
Clemson has around 50 4* and 5* on its roster going into next year., around 20 of them are 5 stars.
As with every other football program, their super seniors did not count toward the 85. So, they had 87 scholarship players PLUS their super seniors last year.
That would be an unequivocal YES!
1. Their current scholarship breakdown showing the current players on board.
2. The list of scholarship players who entered the transfer portal after the first game of the 2021 season.
3. The list of scholarship players who declared for the 2022 NFL draft.
4. The articles detailing scholarship players who either left the team during the 2021 season or 'retired' due to medical issues.
5. Articles stating that the Edwards twins were awarded 'half scholarships' in 2019.
That current breakdown includes two qbs who were walkons this past season and given schollies after the season.
I pointed this out a few posts back.
According to 24/7 team talent composite, this year it was 10 five stars. One more from this year's class would make it 11. At least one is leaving for the NFL, so back to 10.
Yeah. Laugh now, but this kid has heart and comes from a good family. Our superior development program will turn him into a lean, mean punting machine. I can't wait to see him after our strength and conditioning program gets hold of him.And of the film I saw, the punter is really not very good, please see the below film
Seems you missed the 2 walk-ons added at the end of the season. 😏
Does look that way, doesn't it. I wish I had taken a screen shot of their scholarship breakdown for 2021 PRIOR to them updating it on 1/15/2022. The one I had used was from the beginning of the 2021 season, not the upcoming 2022 season. I don't remember either of the former walk on QBs being listed because at that time they were NOT on scholarship and only scholarship players are to be included.
Sure seems strange to me that it was not updated until the day I drew attention to the possible violations. So....I guess it's just a total coincidence.
The update I found on the two qbs was on December 15th.
Edit: I'm even more confused. If you used the breakdown from before the season, the number wouldn't have been 78, as a lot of players left during the season.
Then earlier, you specifically said you used the latest breakdown, with the 78 number.
but those super seniors were NOT included in the latest Clemson Scholarship Breakdown which showed them with 78 scholarship players prior to adding the newcomers from the 2022 recruiting class.
I think we just missed the two that got added at the end of the year. Easy mistake.
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Future leading scorerAnd of the film I saw, the punter is really not very good, please see the below film
...and yet you chose to belittle....
Do you really think that athletic depts with guys on staff to specifically manage this, they would be a dumb as getting caught to having more that 85 on scholly?
And you trust outside sources for this info?
Not disputing that. But, even using their current scholarship breakdown which was updated on 1/15/2022, there is still a discrepancy with the 85 scholarship limit for 2021.
The current breakdown shows 72 scholarships with the NCAA limit being 85. Using this to reconstruct the 2021 Breakdown, the following assumptions, additions and subtractions need to be made:
1. Every player on the current 2022 breakdown list was also on the list for 2021. So, assuming their numbers are correct, they currently have 72 scholarship players, 12 of whom are class of 2022 signees plus the 2 are were not included in the 2021 breakdown. (60)
2. Subtract the 2 walk-on QB's who were not placed on scholarship until Jan 2022 and obviously should not have been included in the 2021 scholarship breakdown. (58)
3. They are in error in stating that Xavier Thomas and BJ Potter who are returning as 'super seniors' do not count against the 85 player limit. They both can return to play, but the NCAA waiver regarding not counting against the 85 player limit no longer applies. And, since they were not counted as part of the 72 scholarship players listed initially, then they have to be added back in. (60)
4. Four seniors graduated and will not return in 2022 - May, Venables, Donnelly, and Johnson.
All were included in the 2021 breakdown. (64)
5. Eight additional seniors were removed (obviously did not graduate and are not returning) - Brown, Galloway, Price, Bockhurst, Spectror, Maddox, and the Edwards twins. All were included in the 2021 breakdown. (72)
6. None of the above listed seniors were the super seniors who were removed (Swinney, Upshaw, Foster, Skalski, Turner, Spiers, and Rencher), but did not count against the 85 limit anyway. (72)
7. Three players declared for the NFL draft - Booth, Goodrich, and Ross. All were included in the 2021 breakdown. (75)
8. Eleven players who were listed at one time on the 2021 scholarship breakdown entered the transfer portal - Jefferies, Lay, Ajou, Ladson, Phommachanh, Thornton, Patterson, Tchio, Dukes, Charleston, and Dixon. (86)
The 86 represents the total number of players listed at one time or another DURING THE SEASON on Clemson's Scholarship Breakdown for the 2021 season. Still one over the NCAA limit.
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