So, our football recruiting class is ranked 30th overall and 12th in the SEC.

[GoCocksFight2021]

Again, it's very strange that you think we wouldn't be better off with a better HC.

It's strange that you think all these so-called "better" coaches are waiting to come to USC despite recent coaching search proving that not to be true.

I mean, how many times do you have to see it? They either have better offers or are willing to wait for a better offer.

 

[Lurker123]

It's strange that you think all these so-called "better" coaches are waiting to come to USC despite recent coaching search proving that not to be true.

I mean, how many times do you have to see it? They either have better offers or are willing to wait for a better offer.

I think you have a different definition for "proving" then sane people.

You're also purposefully conflating "top coaches" with "better coaches".

 

[Ward Jr]

I think you have a different definition for "proving" then sane people.

You're also purposefully conflating "top coaches" with "better coaches".

Lurker - "Top Coaches" come into the SEC all the time and fall in line. It's a broken record. Why do you believe that is?

Why was Spurrier ribbing Saban about trying to do it at South Carolina? And that was before the NIL and open portal. He is now stating that coaches should try to find the biggest wallets in town.

It's as if this message never sinks in?

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

Watson is definitely anti-Beamer, for whatever reason.

I was not for the Beamer hire. But I got on board quickly after the hire (hoping he is a "chip off the old block").

I believe constructive criticism is good. It helps prevent complacency. I make mistakes. And I want them pointed out. That's the only way to get better.

I don't consider you anti-Beamer. Beamer wasn't my pick either, but I support him and his staff until they give me reason not to. I've seen more good than bad from him, and will support him until I see otherwise.

And constructive criticism is absolutely good. But that's not all that is going on here with a few of the turds in this punchbowl. When you have a few that do NOTHING but criticize and shit on the coach and staff, even when we have success, that's not constructive. That is toxic. Narcissistic, self-absorbed, asshole trolls that can't handle the fact that they didn't get their way, despite the fact that they give nothing, and would love to see Beamer fail so they can feel like they were "right" in order to somehow better their pathetic, sick ducking lives.

And to reiterate, I don't consider you one of them. I don't agree with you, but I do think you want Beamer to be successful. I don't believe that about others, and their post history supports my beliefs.

 

[Lurker123]

Narcissistic, self-absorbed, asshole trolls that can't handle the fact that they didn't get their way, despite the fact that they give nothing, and would love to see Beamer fail so they can feel like they were "right" in order to somehow better their pathetic, sick ducking lives.

Other than "Beamer fail", the lack of self awareness in this comment is STAGGERING.

And no, I don't expect you to get it.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

Lurker - "Top Coaches" come into the SEC all the time and fall in line. It's a broken record. Why do you believe that is?

Why was Spurrier ribbing Saban about trying to do it at South Carolina? And that was before the NIL and open portal. He is now stating that coaches should try to find the biggest wallets in town.

It's as if this message never sinks in?

Yeah, I've seen all those "better" coaches lining up to come here. We couldn't even get Billy Napier to leave Louisiana to come here. He literally left money on the table and sat another year in the G5 to wait for a better opportunity. And look at him now. Tom Herman shunned us for another year at Houston.

These "better" coaches know their value and so do other teams with a lot more cash than us. And they care about NIL just as much as players because they want the best circumstances for success so they can move on up to the BIG paydays.

I mean, what up-and-coming coach would look at South Carolina and say "That's my path to the big job". None. Because it literally has NEVER happened.

Not sure why this is even an argument. Money rules the world, and college football certainly isn't an exception. Worse now than it ever has been, and it won't get better. If you want to play, you got pay. That's just the facts.

 

[Lurker123]

Yeah, I've seen all those "better" coaches lining up to come here. We couldn't even get Billy Napier to leave Louisiana to come here. He literally left money on the table and sat another year in the G5 to wait for a better opportunity. And look at him now. Tom Herman shunned us for another year at Houston.

These "better" coaches know their value and so do other teams with a lot more cash than us. And they care about NIL just as much as players because they want the best circumstances for success so they can move on up to the BIG paydays.

I mean, what up-and-coming coach would look at South Carolina and say "That's my path to the big job". None. Because it literally has NEVER happened.

Not sure why this is even an argument. Money rules the world, and college football certainly isn't an exception. Worse now than it ever has been, and it won't get better. If you want to play, you got pay. That's just the facts.

Once AGAIN.

You're also purposefully conflating "top coaches" with "better coaches".

Herman and Napier were top candidates those years. Stop pretending that since we cant/won't get top candidates, that we can't get a candidate that's above a career position coach.

It's not an either/or choice. There are LOTS of different options inbetween those two extremes.

 

[uscwatson21]

It's strange that you think all these so-called "better" coaches are waiting to come to USC despite recent coaching search proving that not to be true.

I mean, how many times do you have to see it? They either have better offers or are willing to wait for a better offer.

We literally turned down better coaches during the search process so your point is as always moot.

 

[uscwatson21]

I don't consider you anti-Beamer. Beamer wasn't my pick either, but I support him and his staff until they give me reason not to. I've seen more good than bad from him, and will support him until I see otherwise.

And constructive criticism is absolutely good. But that's not all that is going on here with a few of the turds in this punchbowl. When you have a few that do NOTHING but criticize and shit on the coach and staff, even when we have success, that's not constructive. That is toxic. Narcissistic, self-absorbed, asshole trolls that can't handle the fact that they didn't get their way, despite the fact that they give nothing, and would love to see Beamer fail so they can feel like they were "right" in order to somehow better their pathetic, sick ducking lives.

And to reiterate, I don't consider you one of them. I don't agree with you, but I do think you want Beamer to be successful. I don't believe that about others, and their post history supports my beliefs.

I would love for Beamer to prove me wrong. But at this point, it's pretty evident he won't. It's just a waiting game for the next coach at this point.

You don't want to be wrong, because you're afraid of admitting you're wrong. I'm afraid of being right because it means we have to watch more bad football.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

Lurker - "Top Coaches" come into the SEC all the time and fall in line. It's a broken record. Why do you believe that is?

Why was Spurrier ribbing Saban about trying to do it at South Carolina? And that was before the NIL and open portal. He is now stating that coaches should try to find the biggest wallets in town.

It's as if this message never sinks in?

And let's not confuse "top coaches" with "hot names" from the G5 or smaller P5 school like the trolls are trying to claim. Two different things. Until you do it in the P5, any of those are just as risky as Beamer. Look at Herman. Look at Napier. Both turned us down. Neither have been successful with resources that far exceeded what Beamer has had available to him. Who are these mystery coaches that we below these names that people think would have been more successful that Beamer has been so far?

 

[Lurker123]

You don't want to be wrong, because you're afraid of admitting you're wrong.

I think this is one of her biggest issues. You'll notice in this very thread when she made the mistake of claiming Stock and I were saying the opposite of what we actually said. She can't handle being corrected, and just ignored it being pointed out to her. (Her other option just being a frothing at the mouth hissy fit)

Think how much smoother this board would be if she could grow up enough to say something simple like "I misread that" and we moved on?

 

[Lurker123]

Until you do it in the P5, any of those are just as risky as Beamer.

Incorrect. Success at coaching on the G5 level is less risk than never having success as a coach or coordinator at any level.

 

[Ward Jr]

Incorrect. Success at coaching on the G5 level is less risk than never having success as a coach or coordinator at any level.

So even though Beamer is knotted with our best coach in history after 3 seasons and is the first coach dealing with losing his best players each year to a screwy system -- your argument remains that he is underperforming, career position coach and we would be far better if we had hired someone else?

Does that make sense to you when it's all written out?

Do you get why we would wonder what the heck you're talking about?

 

[Lurker123]

I would have looked for someone with successful Head Coaching experience below, what was then, the P5 conferences. Quite a few of those would have crawled to Columbia for the chance.

It's interesting how you and I can say the same thing and get very different responses.

 

[uscwatson21]

first coach dealing with losing his best players each year to a screwy system --

It's amazing you can say this with a straight face considering Beamer's success in 2022 came directly on the back of a transfer QB. Something no other coach in history had the opportunity to receive.

Imagine what a real coach could have done with the roster Muschamp left Beamer.

 

[Ward Jr]

It's amazing you can say this with a straight face considering Beamer's success in 2022 came directly on the back of a transfer QB. Something no other coach in history had the opportunity to receive.

Imagine what a real coach could have done with the roster Muschamp left Beamer.

You gain one. You lose all of your key supporting pieces. That sounds awesome Watson.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

I would love for Beamer to prove me wrong. But at this point, it's pretty evident he won't. It's just a waiting game for the next coach at this point.

You don't want to be wrong, because you're afraid of admitting you're wrong. I'm afraid of being right because it means we have to watch more bad football.

When have you ever been "right"?

I've said numerous times that Beamer should get a fair chance and if he doesn't work out, I fully support replacing him. Period. That time isn't now. Neither of us know how his tenure will go.

You, on the other hand, have shit on him and his staff, at every opportunity since day one. Even when this go well. Same for others.

THAT is the difference.

 

[Lurker123]

When have you ever been "right"?

I've said numerous times that Beamer should get a fair chance and if he doesn't work out, I fully support replacing him. Period. That time isn't now. Neither of us know how his tenure will go.

You, on the other hand, have shit on him and his staff, at every opportunity since day one. Even when this go well. Same for others.

THAT is the difference.

This is odd. I've said he should get at least this year, and another unless the wheels fall off. That means 5 years.

Yet someone either can't read real well, or is making up sh!t, just to have something to cry about.

I figure it's the latter. And that doesn't say much about that person.

Its also noted that the undying defense of Beamer has shifted to "if he doesn't work out, I fully support replacing him."

Guess even she is starting to see the writing on the wall. Give it time and she'll convince herself she never liked the hire, before changing the username so she can start her cycle all over again with the new coach.

 

[gamecock stock]

I don't consider you anti-Beamer. Beamer wasn't my pick either, but I support him and his staff until they give me reason not to. I've seen more good than bad from him, and will support him until I see otherwise.

And constructive criticism is absolutely good. But that's not all that is going on here with a few of the turds in this punchbowl. When you have a few that do NOTHING but criticize and shit on the coach and staff, even when we have success, that's not constructive. That is toxic. Narcissistic, self-absorbed, asshole trolls that can't handle the fact that they didn't get their way, despite the fact that they give nothing, and would love to see Beamer fail so they can feel like they were "right" in order to somehow better their pathetic, sick ducking lives.

And to reiterate, I don't consider you one of them. I don't agree with you, but I do think you want Beamer to be successful. I don't believe that about others, and their post history supports my beliefs.

I appreciate the sentiment. I don't have all the answers on anything. I'm constantly reminded of that. The thing I dislike about social media is that, too often, we look at those who disagree with us as evil, rather than just misinformed. But, if we discussed things in person, I believe we'd look at the other person as misinformed rather than evil.

Regardless, life is too short to look at the other person as evil. When you are on social media communicating with that other person, you never know what's going on in that person's life. I was sort of reminded of not knowing what's going on in someone's life, this past Saturday. I had a good friend from college days die on the day of this past year's Carolina-Clemson football game from pancreatic cancer, which is a tough cancer to beat. I ran into my friend's sister-in-law and asked her how my friend's wife (Nancy) was doing. I was pretty sure that things were not easy but I thought she was slowly adjusting to her new life. She said that she calls her sister Nancy every day and says that Nancy cries every day. I was kind of surprised at the answer and felt awful from hearing that. And I still feel awful about it. Was not able to reach her today and will keep trying. The point again being you never know what's going on in someone's life, especially from a computer.

 

[Ward Jr]

This is odd. I've said he should get at least this year, and another unless the wheels fall off. That means 5 years.

Yet someone either can't read real well, or is making up sh!t, just to have something to cry about.

I figure it's the latter. And that doesn't say much about that person.

Its also noted that the undying defense of Beamer has shifted to "if he doesn't work out, I fully support replacing him."

Guess even she is starting to see what the rest of us suspected for a while.

The double-talk is magnificent at this point.

You just were complaining that we hired a career position coach and that Napier or Herman would be better options even though Napier is sucking wind at talent-money-rich UF and Herman is now with the Florida Atlantic Owls.

Meanwhile, Beamer is right there with our best start ever after three seasons.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

It's amazing you can say this with a straight face considering Beamer's success in 2022 came directly on the back of a transfer QB. Something no other coach in history had the opportunity to receive.

Imagine what a real coach could have done with the roster Muschamp left Beamer.

Ridiculous. We exceeded all expectations for 2022. And 2021. Vegas. Sports media. But you somehow think Beamer underachieved in 2022? That someone else would have done so much better?

You just aren't living in reality.

 

[uscwatson21]

Ridiculous. We exceeded all expectations for 2022. And 2021. Vegas. Sports media. But you somehow think Beamer underachieved in 2022? That someone else would have done so much better?

You just aren't living in reality.

Yet here we are in year 4 and predicted to have a losing season.

Everyone else see Beamer has a failed HC. You’re just doing everything you can to delay admitting the truth.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

Yet here we are in year 4 and predicted to have a losing season.

Everyone else see Beamer has a failed HC. You’re just doing everything you can to delay admitting the truth.

No, you do. Trolls do.

That's not "everyone". Most sane people understand the challenges at South Carolina and don't view him as "failed" at this point. Nobody knows how it will end. You included. We have to let it play out, or you won't even get a look from coaches if you add the belief that they won't be treated fairly to the long list of other negatives here at SC.

 

[Ward Jr]

Yet here we are in year 4 and predicted to have a losing season.

Everyone else see Beamer has a failed HC. You’re just doing everything you can to delay admitting the truth.

Watson's Blueprint for Success

1) Fire Coach Beamer Today even though there's zero justification
2) Pay $17mil in bailout money we don't have
3) Deal with national media scorn of firing a likable coach with a good record and paying another buyout
4) Allow talent to scramble.
5) Dissolve NIL relationships/agreements
5) Royally piss off any high school coach relationships established
6) Allow Tanner and the AD to conduct another random coaching search
7) Keep your fingers crossed that new coach works out even though only two retired coaches in modern history have and they weren't dealing with the new system
8) Pray we can pick up a couple of more wins that we have today after 3 seasons.

Seems logical.

 

[Lurker123]

You’re just doing everything you can to delay admitting the truth.

I disagree with you here. She's already started setting the stage for pretending she was "right" about Beamer.

"if he doesn't work out, I fully support replacing him."

She sees the writing on the wall, and wants to pretend she knew all along if it goes south. This is the closest you will ever get to her admitting she was wrong. You should take it as such.

 

[Ward Jr]

I disagree with you here. She's already started setting the stage for pretending she was "right" about Beamer.

"if he doesn't work out, I fully support replacing him."

She sees the writing on the wall, and wants to pretend she knew all along if it goes south. This is the closest you will ever get to her admitting she was wrong. You should take it as such.

There's no writing on the wall if Beamer gets fired after 5 years. That's the norm.

What you don't do is pay ridiculous amounts of money and crush the team both physically and optically because you don't want to let things play out.

Common sense.

 

[uscwatson21]

There's no writing on the wall if Beamer gets fired after 5 years. That's the norm.

What you don't do is pay ridiculous amounts of money and crush the team both physically and optically because you don't want to let things play out.

Common sense.

You’re saying you’re stuck with a coach because Tanner was an idiot when he gave Beamer and extension and raise.

That’s the epitome of a sunk cost fallacy.

 

[Ward Jr]

You’re saying you’re stuck with a coach because Tanner was an idiot when he gave Beamer and extension and raise.

That’s the epitome of a sunk cost fallacy.

Ha. You are one committed, tireless troll Watson. What an interesting fetish.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

Watson's Blueprint for Success

1) Fire Coach Beamer Today even though there's zero justification
2) Pay $17mil in bailout money we don't have
3) Deal with national media scorn of firing a likable coach with a good record and paying another buyout
4) Allow talent to scramble.
5) Dissolve NIL relationships/agreements
5) Royally piss off any high school coach relationships established
6) Allow Tanner and the AD to conduct another random coaching search
7) Keep your fingers crossed that new coach works out even though only two retired coaches in modern history have and they weren't dealing with the new system
8) Pray we can pick up a couple of more wins that we have today after 3 seasons.

Seems logical.

Yeah, go to find that successful head coach from a smaller school that nobody else knows about that sees South Carolina as his path for success. LOL

 

[Lurker123]

Yeah, go to find that successful head coach from a smaller school that nobody else knows about that sees South Carolina as his path for success. LOL

Take away the part no one said (that nobody else knows about), and that plan seems to have better odds than finding a career position coach who just "really wants to be here".

It's entertaining how much you despise common sense.

 

[gamecock stock]

Just to comment about Beamer's current contract: People can criticize his contract extension all they want. However, MOST people feel that the team did better than expectations in 2021 and 2022. Now, in my opinion, Tanner had to rework his contract. I was for giving Beamer a raise and contract extension after the 2022 season. To me, that was NOT a crazy thing to do. And where does Beamer's pay stack up in the SEC today out of 16 teams? 13th (I am assuming that he is paid more than private school Vanderbilt is paying their coach, a safe assumption, I believe). So, we are not paying a ridiculous amount of money to Beamer compared to our fellow conference members. What was "crazy" was hiring him as Head Coach in the first place.

Let's see what happens this coming season. I personally feel that Beamer upgraded his staff in the offseason. I am optimistic that we will surprise people in 2024. Time will tell.

 

[Lurker123]

Just to comment about Beamer's current contract: People can criticize his contract extension all they want. However, MOST people feel that the team did better than expectations in 2021 and 2022. Now, in my opinion, Tanner had to rework his contract. I was for giving Beamer a raise and contract extension after the 2022 season. To me, that was NOT a crazy thing to do. And where does Beamer's pay stack up in the SEC today out of 16 teams? 13th (I am assuming that he is paid more than private school Vanderbilt is paying their coach, a safe assumption, I believe). So, we are not paying a ridiculous amount of money to Beamer compared to our fellow conference members. What was "crazy" was hiring him as Head Coach in the first place.

Let's see what happens this coming season. I personally feel that Beamer upgraded his staff in the offseason. I am optimistic that we will surprise people in 2024. Time will tell.

Agreed. Contracts, salaries and extensions don't really matter in the long run. Imo, the buyout is the key.

I would LOVE to see coach's contracts have buyouts contingent on records. But that's a different debate.

I feel like he made some decent hires this year too, but my optimism is dwindling more than yours, unfortunately.

After the patsies and vandy, it'll only take 2 wins to get to a bowl. Have a decent showing in one, and we could try grabbing momentum again. If not? It's not going to be pleasant around here.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

Watson's Blueprint for Success


7) Keep your fingers crossed that new coach works out even though only two retired coaches in modern history have and they weren't dealing with the new system

Seems logical.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

Just to comment about Beamer's current contract: People can criticize his contract extension all they want. However, MOST people feel that the team did better than expectations in 2021 and 2022. Now, in my opinion, Tanner had to rework his contract. I was for giving Beamer a raise and contract extension after the 2022 season. To me, that was NOT a crazy thing to do. And where does Beamer's pay stack up in the SEC today out of 16 teams? 13th (I am assuming that he is paid more than private school Vanderbilt is paying their coach, a safe assumption, I believe). So, we are not paying a ridiculous amount of money to Beamer compared to our fellow conference members. What was "crazy" was hiring him as Head Coach in the first place.

Let's see what happens this coming season. I personally feel that Beamer upgraded his staff in the offseason. I am optimistic that we will surprise people in 2024. Time will tell.

What was "crazy" about hiring him as a HC in the first place?

 

[Lurker123]

What was "crazy" about hiring him as a HC in the first place?

Yeah, what's crazy about hiring a career position coach? Now, coaches with actual success at a lower level? THAT'S just crazy, right?

It's hysterical that you're so busy trolling, you've backed yourself into a corner arguing that hiring a coach with successful experience is the crazy option.

 

[tngamecock#]

I know, I know ....NIL...NIL. Well. I suspect we will always be at a disadvantage regarding NIL, unless there is reform. Question: does Shane have the coaching chops to take lesser talented teams to beat the more talented ones?

So what rankings are you looking at? 20th in ON3. You think there might be a little subjectivity involved? Rivals plays games also….as most services do.

 

[Lurker123]

So what rankings are you looking at? 20th in ON3. You think there might be a little subjectivity involved? Rivals plays games also….as most services do.

I think he was referring to ON3, as we are now 22nd there. (There was a link in a later post, but the number fluctuates almost daily since the class is ongoing.)

The basic premise remains though, imo. IF, and it's an if, we are assuming a disadvantage at recruiting/talent to our opponents, are we confident coaching can tighten or close that gap?

 

[gamecock stock]

So what rankings are you looking at? 20th in ON3. You think there might be a little subjectivity involved? Rivals plays games also….as most services do.

It was an article here on Scoop. Now whether it was written by a Scoop staffer or Rivals staffer, I don't remember. But if you click on the team recruiting rankings at the top, you will see our ranking at #30. None of these rankings are error-free. But you have to go by something other than "hope" or "wish".

 

[gamecock stock]

The basic premise remains though, imo. IF, and it's an if, we are assuming a disadvantage at recruiting/talent to our opponents, are we confident coaching can tighten or close that gap?

We are at a disadvantage when it comes to recruiting. Unfortunately, we probably always will be. We can't "wish" nor "hope" that away.

 

[Ward Jr]

Take away the part no one said (that nobody else knows about), and that plan seems to have better odds than finding a career position coach who just "really wants to be here".

It's entertaining how much you despise common sense.

Lurker, where does the "common sense" come in when you are stating that some hypothetical coach which you cannot name would have been a better plan at this point than our current head coach who is right there with our best in history after 3 seasons?

You've bought up Drinkwitz several times as a reference point. Beamer has 3 more wins than DW after his first 3 seasons.

Save some of these viewpoints though. They could have application at some point down the road. Just not today.

BotMaster - You might want to pull Lurker123 off the floor for a little service.