So, our football recruiting class is ranked 30th overall and 12th in the SEC.

[gamecock stock]

What was "crazy" about hiring him as a HC in the first place?

He has never been a Head Coach prior to coming here. He has never even been a OC or DC. Look at our history. The only coaches we have ever had that had any success, were those who had prior FBS Head Coaching experience.

Dietzel won the ACC championship; prior to that won the national championship at LSU;
Carlen was the first coach to ever win 8 games in one season at South Carolina (doing it twice); prior to that, produced a Top 20 team at West Virginia and a Top 15 team at Texas Tech.
Morrison produced 2 Top 15 teams, a first for South Carolina. Prior to that, he won 3 conference championships at Chattanooga; though Chattanooga was not a FBS school at the time, he later went to FBS school New Mexico, going 10-1 in his 3rd and last year there.
Holtz produced one Top 20 and one Top 15 team at Carolina. Prior to that, won the national championship at Notre Dame and produced highly ranked programs at Arkansas and NC State.
Spurrier was the first coach to ever produce a Top 10 team at South Carolina, doing it 3 times. Prior to that, won the national championship at Florida.

Look at the others who had no FBS Head Coaching experience prior to coming to South Carolina:
Richard Bell- fired after one season
Sparky Woods-fired after five seasons
Brad Scott -fired after 5 seasons
Will Muschamp-fired during his 5th season.

It would be nice to find a Dabo Sweeney without FBS Head Coaching experience to win 2 national championships. But he coaches at what's in essence a SEC school in the basketball-first ACC conference. Arkansas did the same thing we did the year before we hired Beamer. They hired Sam Pittman, who had no FBS Head Coaching experience. There was talk about Pittman possibly being fired after this past season. He is definitely on the "hot seat" this coming season.

To be clear, I'm pulling hard for Beamer. I'm tired of changing coaches. I'm also tired of losing.

 

[Cockytalk84]

He has never been a Head Coach prior to coming here. He has never even been a OC or DC. Look at our history. The only coaches we have ever had that had any success, were those who had prior FBS Head Coaching experience.

Dietzel won the ACC championship; prior to that won the national championship at LSU;
Carlen was the first coach to ever win 8 games in one season at South Carolina (doing it twice); prior to that, produced a Top 20 team at West Virginia and a Top 15 team at Texas Tech.
Morrison produced 2 Top 15 teams, a first for South Carolina. Prior to that, he won 3 conference championships at Chattanooga; though Chattanooga was not a FBS school at the time, he later went to FBS school New Mexico, going 10-1 in his 3rd and last year there.
Holtz produced one Top 20 and one Top 15 team at Carolina. Prior to that, won the national championship at Notre Dame and produced highly ranked programs at Arkansas and NC State.
Spurrier was the first coach to ever produce a Top 10 team at South Carolina, doing it 3 times. Prior to that, won the national championship at Florida.

Look at the others who had no FBS Head Coaching experience prior to coming to South Carolina:
Richard Bell- fired after one season
Sparky Woods-fired after five seasons
Brad Scott -fired after 5 seasons
Will Muschamp-fired during his 5th season.

It would be nice to find a Dabo Sweeney without FBS Head Coaching experience to win 2 national championships. But he coaches at what's in essence a SEC school in the basketball-first ACC conference. Arkansas did the same thing we did the year before we hired Beamer. They hired Sam Pittman, who had no FBS Head Coaching experience. There was talk about Pittman possibly being fired after this past season. He is definitely on the "hot seat" this coming season.

To be clear, I'm pulling hard for Beamer. I'm tired of changing coaches. I'm also tired of losing.

Joe Morrison won the Walter Camp Coach of the Year Award. The peak ranking of No. 2 remains the highest in school history. You stated that Spurrier was the first SC coach to produce a top 10 team..

 

[gamecock stock]

Joe Morrison won the Walter Camp Coach of the Year Award. The peak ranking of No. 2 remains the highest in school history. You stated that Spurrier was the first SC coach to produce a top 10 team..

Everything you said there is accurate.

The rankings I referred to were those at the end of the seasons.

 

[Ward Jr]

He has never been a Head Coach prior to coming here. He has never even been a OC or DC. Look at our history. The only coaches we have ever had that had any success, were those who had prior FBS Head Coaching experience.

Dietzel won the ACC championship; prior to that won the national championship at LSU;
Carlen was the first coach to ever win 8 games in one season at South Carolina (doing it twice); prior to that, produced a Top 20 team at West Virginia and a Top 15 team at Texas Tech.
Morrison produced 2 Top 15 teams, a first for South Carolina. Prior to that, he won 3 conference championships at Chattanooga; though Chattanooga was not a FBS school at the time, he later went to FBS school New Mexico, going 10-1 in his 3rd and last year there.
Holtz produced one Top 20 and one Top 15 team at Carolina. Prior to that, won the national championship at Notre Dame and produced highly ranked programs at Arkansas and NC State.
Spurrier was the first coach to ever produce a Top 10 team at South Carolina, doing it 3 times. Prior to that, won the national championship at Florida.

Look at the others who had no FBS Head Coaching experience prior to coming to South Carolina:
Richard Bell- fired after one season
Sparky Woods-fired after five seasons
Brad Scott -fired after 5 seasons
Will Muschamp-fired during his 5th season.

It would be nice to find a Dabo Sweeney without FBS Head Coaching experience to win 2 national championships. But he coaches at what's in essence a SEC school in the basketball-first ACC conference. Arkansas did the same thing we did the year before we hired Beamer. They hired Sam Pittman, who had no FBS Head Coaching experience. There was talk about Pittman possibly being fired after this past season. He is definitely on the "hot seat" this coming season.

To be clear, I'm pulling hard for Beamer. I'm tired of changing coaches. I'm also tired of losing.

"Tired of losing" "Never been a head coach"

Beamer has been our head coach for 3 seasons as has won as much as any coach in our history.

What exactly are you talking about here?

 

[gamecock stock]

"Tired of losing" "Never been a head coach"

Beamer has been our head coach for 3 seasons as has won as much as any coach in our history.

Swinney had less wins than Beamer after 3 full seasons against ACC opponents.

What exactly are you talking about here?

We were very fortunate with some games that were closer than they should have been (East Carolina, Vanderbilt, Jax State quickly come to mind). What I'm referring to is potential based on experience. Obviously if the 3 seasons were all good through and through, he would have stayed the course with the staff. Instead, we saw more staff changes than anytime in the prior 2 seasons. We don't know who might have been encouraged to leave. Overall, I'm glad to see some of those changes. I would have made a couple of more. But, that's me.

By the way, as I recall, Muschamp used to brag that he had more wins at a certain time period than other Carolina coaches. How did he turn out?

 

[Ward Jr]

We were very fortunate with some games that were closer than they should have been (East Carolina, Vanderbilt, Jax State quickly come to mind). What I'm referring to is potential based on experience. Obviously if the 3 seasons were all good through and through, he would have stayed the course with the staff. Instead, we saw more staff changes than anytime in the prior 2 seasons. We don't know who might have been encouraged to leave. Overall, I'm glad to see some of those changes. I would have made a couple of more. But, that's me.

By the way, as I recall, Muschamp used to brag that he had more wins at a certain time period than other Carolina coaches. How did he turn out?

So now you're trying to downplay wins in order to downplay Beamer's record after 3 seasons?

Muschamp's record against any real competition (P5) was terrible. That's not the case with Beamer.

 

[gamecock stock]

So now you're trying to downplay wins in order to downplay Beamer's record after 3 seasons?

Muschamp's record against any real competition (P5) was terrible. That's not the case with Beamer.

I'm just saying there were some close calls regarding the win totals that you reference to teams there should not have been close calls to. And Beamer has 10 SEC conference wins to Muschamps 12 in their first 3 seasons. And again, I'm referring to potential. And again, I would not be using the same argument that Muschamp used. But that's me. And you know, I'm not the enemy here.

 

[Lurker123]

By the way, as I recall, Muschamp used to brag that he had more wins at a certain time period than other Carolina coaches. How did he turn out?

Interesting comparison. Through the first 3 full seasons:

Muschamp 22-17
Spurrier 21-16
Shane 20-18

Dabo. 25-16 (insert easier path comment)

For a 4th year, Muschamp then went 4-8, Spurrier went 7-6, Dabo went 10-4. Obviously Shane is up to bat.

 

[Ward Jr]

Interesting comparison. Through the first 3 full seasons:

Muschamp 22-17
Spurrier 21-16
Shane 20-18

Dabo. 25-16 (insert easier path comment)

For a 4th year, Muschamp then went 4-8, Spurrier went 7-6, Dabo went 10-4. Obviously Shane is up to bat.

Those are the best starts in our history. Now mix in losing your top players each season because you can't pay them as well as the additional of Texas and Oklahoma to the equation.

 

[Ward Jr]

I'm just saying there were some close calls regarding the win totals that you reference to teams there should not have been close calls to. And Beamer has 10 SEC conference wins to Muschamps 12 in their first 3 seasons. And again, I'm referring to potential. And again, I would not be using the same argument that Muschamp used. But that's me. And you know, I'm not the enemy here.

Do you remember how many close games we won under Spurrier?

Muschamp wasn't beating any quality teams. I believe he had one victory over a ranked opponent in 3 seasons. Most had losing records.

Nonetheless -- We're comparing coaches tied to our best starts in history. Why would you be complaining about Beamer within this framework? He's got to toughest job of anyone in the group and everyone here agrees with that notion.

 

[gamecock stock]

mix in losing your top players each season because you can't pay them as well as the additional of Texas and Oklahoma to the equation.

Ward, none of us are denying that. That's a problem we all recognize. I don't see that changing. Do you? I hope your crypto investments go to the moon.

 

[Ward Jr]

Ward, none of us are denying that. That's a problem we all recognize. I don't see that changing. Do you? I hope your crypto investments go to the moon.

No. I'm just perplexed as to why all of the negative sentiment when you zoom out? I don't believe Beamer has come close to earning it as of today.

 

[gamecock stock]

Do you remember how many close games we won under Spurrier?

Muschamp wasn't beating any quality teams. I believe he had one victory over a ranked opponent in 3 seasons. Most had losing records.

Ward, I would not want to put Beamer in the same coaching category and coaching background/experience, not to even mention accomplishments, as Spurrier. And Muschamp's SEC record was better. That's a fact.

What's missing is that all some of us are saying is that historically, we have had some success going with proven Head Coaches, certainly more than going with newbies. That's all. And that's an undeniable, PROVEN fact, as I showed well above.

I'm hoping....we all are hoping...that Beamer breaks that curse. You yourself said that Beamer was not your first choice. You and I were in that same camp back then. Trust me when I say that when it's all said and done, I want us to say "what were we thinking back then?".

 

[gamecock stock]

No. I'm just perplexed as to why all of the negative sentiment when you zoom out? I don't believe Beamer has come close to earning it as of today.

It's a message board my friend. Football is THE sport, with apologies to the other sports. I started the thread asking whether Beamer has the coaching chops to overachieve, when comparing our recruiting to others and realizing the seemingly disadvantage we will be having, money-wise, in the foreseeable future. I was not trying to cause trouble. It was, I feel, a legitimate question, out of concern. And honestly, I don't recall a lot of "Yes he does".

 

[Ward Jr]

Ward, I would not want to put Beamer in the same coaching category and coaching background/experience, not to even mention accomplishments, as Spurrier. And Muschamp's SEC record was better. That's a fact.

What's missing is that all some of us are saying is that historically, we have had some success going with proven Head Coaches, certainly more than going with newbies. That's all. And that's an undeniable, PROVEN fact, as I showed well above.

I'm hoping....we all are hoping...that Beamer breaks that curse. You yourself said that Beamer was not your first choice. You and I were in that same camp back then. Trust me when I say that when it's all said and done, I want us to say "what were we thinking back then?".

Beamer has had as much success as Spurrier or Muschamp through 3 seasons. Both Spurrier and Muschamp did not have to deal with buying players or their best players being taken at the end of each season which is a huge deal.

Imagine if Spurrier had lost Cory Boyd, Jared Cook, Sidney Rice and Marque Hall at the end of his 2nd season? He probably would have quit on the spot in frustration over a rigged system.

 

[Ward Jr]

It's a message board my friend. Football is THE sport, with apologies to the other sports. I started the thread asking whether Beamer has the coaching chops to overachieve, when comparing our recruiting to others and realizing the seemingly disadvantage we will be having, money-wise, in the foreseeable future. I was not trying to cause trouble. It was, I feel, a legitimate question, out of concern. And honestly, I don't recall a lot of "Yes he does".

Agree. I'm just of the camp that you need to have at least some shred of evidence to bolster a claim.

 

[gamecock stock]

Beamer has had as much success as Spurrier or Muschamp through 3 seasons. Both Spurrier and Muschamp did not have to deal with buying players or their best players being taken at the end of each season which is a huge deal.

Imagine if Spurrier had lost Cory Boyd, Jared Cook, Sidney Rice and Marque Hall at the end of his 2nd season? He probably would have quit on the spot in frustration over a rigged system.

Even Muschamp had a better record, not just overall, but SEC conference-wise !2 wins to 11 wins than Spurrier. But nobody in their right mind would have had the same amount of confidence in Muschamp, after year 3, than in Spurrier. I know I did not. I could just look at both of theirs backgrounds and see one coach had "won" whereas the other guy did not.

And no one is denying the new system today. No one. That's why I asked whether Beamer has the coaching chops to do "more with less". I don't see the system changing. There just does not seem to be an uproar over the state of college football today that I assumed and hoped would be. I feel sorry for those who do not remember Carolina football prior to 1973. I do. For the most part, we were 2nd class citizens in college football. At least I will know what it feels like.

 

[gamecock stock]

Agree. I'm just of the camp that you need to have at least some shred of evidence to bolster a claim.

I think what you are saying is that the jury is still out on Beamer. That's a fair response.

The past is just that...the past. It cannot be changed. All we can do is focus on the present and hope the future won't resemble predominantly pre-1973 Carolina football days.

 

[Ward Jr]

Even Muschamp had a better record, not just overall, but SEC conference-wise !2 wins to 11 wins than Spurrier. But nobody in their right mind would have had the same amount of confidence in Muschamp, after year 3, than in Spurrier. I know I did not. I could just look at both of theirs backgrounds and see one coach had "won" whereas the other guy did not.

And no one is denying the new system today. No one. That's why I asked whether Beamer has the coaching chops to do "more with less". I don't see the system changing. There just does not seem to be an uproar over the state of college football today that I assumed and hoped would be. I feel sorry for those who do not remember Carolina football prior to 1973. I do. For the most part, we were 2nd class citizens in college football. At least I will know what it feels like.

Whether Muschamp or Spurrier won a game or two or more doesn't matter. You've played 36+ games and you're in the ballpark of the best ever.

Not to mention --

+ No NIL
+ No Open Portal and losing your top talent every year
+ Weaker SEC East

If Wells alone plays last season, there's a very good chance we're 7-5 or better land we aren't having this discussion. But Wells got hurt and then decided to stay down so he could maximize his NIL money in college since he's undersized for the NFL. That's the harsh reality that neither Spurrier or Muschamp dealt with at all.

 

[gamecock stock]

Whether Muschamp or Spurrier won a game or two or more doesn't matter. You've played 36+ games and you're in the ballpark of the best ever.

Not to mention --

+ No NIL
+ No Open Portal and losing your top talent every year
+ Weaker SEC East

If Wells alone plays last season, there's a very good chance we're 7-5 or better land we aren't having this discussion. But Wells got hurt and then decided to stay down so he could maximize his NIL money in college since he's undersized for the NFL. That's the harsh reality that neither Spurrier or Muschamp dealt with at all.

But the system does not look like it's changing. And that's what prompted me to start the thread asking whether Beamer has the coaching chops to do "more with less". We better hope he does.

 

[Ward Jr]

But the system does not look like it's changing. And that's what prompted me to start the thread asking whether Beamer has the coaching chops to do "more with less". We better hope he does.

And my point is that you don't run $20mil experiments and ditch a HC after 3 seasons who has accomplished about as much as anyone in history dealing with a screwy system.

As it stands today, you have a far greater likelihood of hiring a coach who underperforms what Beamer has done so far. Not the opposite. History provides that evidence very clearly.

 

[turncock]

Whether Muschamp or Spurrier won a game or two or more doesn't matter. You've played 36+ games and you're in the ballpark of the best ever.

Not to mention --

+ No NIL
+ No Open Portal and losing your top talent every year
+ Weaker SEC East

If Wells alone plays last season, there's a very good chance we're 7-5 or better land we aren't having this discussion. But Wells got hurt and then decided to stay down so he could maximize his NIL money in college since he's undersized for the NFL. That's the harsh reality that neither Spurrier or Muschamp dealt with at all.

1000%.

 

[Lurker123]

But nobody in their right mind would have had the same amount of confidence in Muschamp, after year 3, than in Spurrier. I know I did not. I could just look at both of theirs backgrounds and see one coach had "won" whereas the other guy did not.

Agreed. But that is a product of each of the coach's experience and career up until that point.

Imo, its much easier to give more time/leeway to a national title winning coach than a guy who just failed at Florida.

 

[gamecock stock]

And my point is that you don't run $20mil experiments and ditch a HC after 3 seasons who has accomplished about as much as anyone in history dealing with a screwy system.

As it stands today, you are a far greater likelihood of hiring a coach who underperforms what Beamer has done so far. Not the opposite. History provides that evidence very clearly.

Other than Watson and Southern Fried, I'm not sure who else has advocated that. I'm sure you know I have not. I have said that if it comes to that, and I hope it does not, I hope that next time, we follow the historical path where we have had the most success.

 

[Lurker123]

I think what you are saying is that the jury is still out on Beamer. That's a fair response.

Would this be the point to mention AGAIN that only one poster is calling for Beamer to be fired now? Nit that I think it'll do much good.

(Is Southern saying that too?)

 

[Ward Jr]

Would this be the point to mention AGAIN that only one poster is calling for Beamer to be fired now? Nit that I think it'll do much good.

(Is Southern saying that too?)

You haven't called for firing him because you realize that's not going to happen right now. Let's face it though - you've said pretty much everything but that.

 

[gamecock stock]

Would this be the point to mention AGAIN that only one poster is calling for Beamer to be fired now? Nit that I think it'll do much good.

(Is Southern saying that too?)

If you go back to the first page and look at his quote right above yours, he has no confidence in Beamer. Now he did not come right out and say fire him now in that post. But I read between the lines. So, I could be misjudging him.

 

[Lurker123]

Other than Watson and Southern Fried, I'm not sure who else has advocated that. I'm sure you know I have not. I have said that if it comes to that, and I hope it does not, I hope that next time, we follow the historical path where we have had the most success.

Apparently it doesn't matter if we say the direct opposite. Other posters are comfortable choosing our positions for us, so they have something to complain about.

 

[Lurker123]

If you go back to the first page and look at his quote right above yours, he has no confidence in Beamer. Now he did not come right out and say fire him now in that post. But I read between the lines. So, I could be misjudging him.

Read it, I see what you mean. I'll let him speak for himself on that one.

 

[Ward Jr]

Apparently it doesn't matter if we say the direct opposite. Other posters are comfortable choosing our positions for us, so they have something to complain about.

You have a very large body of work on full display.

 

[Ward Jr]

If you go back to the first page and look at his quote right above yours, he has no confidence in Beamer. Now he did not come right out and say fire him now in that post. But I read between the lines. So, I could be misjudging him.

Copy/Paste.

 

[gamecock stock]

Copy/Paste.

I like to make people work.

 

[Ward Jr]

I like to make people work.

You like misdirection.

 

[gamecock stock]

You like misdirection.

I like accuracy.

 

[Ward Jr]

I like accuracy.

If so, you would be delighted to provide evidence of your claim(s).

 

[gamecock stock]

You like misdirection.

In all honesty, at the risk of you defaming Lurker accusing him of being me, I have never read a post by Lurker calling for Beamer's immediate dismissal. I've read him to agree with me that we should have hired someone with a proven, successful Head Coaching record.

 

[gamecock stock]

If so, you would be delighted to provide evidence of your claim(s).

What claim(s)?

 

[Ward Jr]

In all honesty, at the risk of you defaming Lurker accusing him of being me, I have never read a post by Lurker calling for Beamer's immediate dismissal. I've read him to agree with me that we should have hired someone with a proven, successful Head Coaching record.

Maybe you'll be proven correct at some point. As of today, you don't have much to go on.

 

[Ward Jr]

What claim(s)?

My alleged quote.

 

[gamecock stock]

Maybe you'll be proven correct at some point. As of today, you don't have much to go on.

Ask him how he really feels rather than make accusations.