The battle flag is coming down
- Thread starter CAIN#
- Start date
Wasn't the battle flag. The flag they had flying was the official flag of the CSA. That's what I think tips the scales in this argument. People can argue back and forth until they are blue in the face about a symbol of the confederacy and what it means, what it stood for, etc. during that era. What they can't argue is that the battle flag was corrupted when it was appropriated as a symbol of racism and hate during the early and middle part of the 20th century by groups who did a lot of really bad things to minorities and, in particular, black people.
When Mississippi is your crutch things must be pretty bad.
Nobody thinks taking down the flag will end racism. That is not the point at all. It's just the right thing to do. Removing it from government property protected by legislation will not erase any of the pride, heritage or memory of anybody's fallen ancestors. What it will do is remove a tangible symbol of the oppression and hate many of our citizens and their ancestors had to endure, being lynched, spit on, called "******," told they were less than human, etc. It will stop being a government sanctioned form of throwing that in their faces. The flag will still exist. The history will still exist. The pride will still exist. There is no way to state it any more clearly. If you cannot understand or don't agree, then fine. We'll just have to disagree.
Well putting it up there certainly caused a whole bunch of problems and didn't help anything. While taking it down won't fix everything, it will fix a few things that are important. It was time to bring it down. We are better than this.
And the folks who defend it today sat idly by while hate groups corrupted it. If it meant that much to folks, they should have been more vocal when it was being corrupted.
I could really care less. I don't own anything at all with a confederate flag on it, but I call BS on it fixing a few things that are important. It will be something else the people can cry about. Wait and see.
You are just being obtuse. You want to proudly observe the Confederate history, that's fine, but you should probably also observe the history of blacks in the South since then. It's not a fairy tale. It's real shit, that happened to real people, and it was REALLY bad.
Surely they are not have ng a ceremony for this? That's just grandstanding. Send someone out there at dawn tomorrow and be done with it.
Doesn't sound like you could care less. My firm represents Michelin and some other foreign companies doing business in SC and I promise you it has been a huge headache for them, particularly after the Charleston shootings. If SC wants to continue to attract investment outside of SC, it needed to do this. SC needs the jobs. So yes, I think it fixed some important things.
I don't care but to cave to something just gives the idiots more ammo for something different. But I see it's all about money for some. Do anything for money is the thinking nowadays.
My position is it's a long time coming. I'm a born and bred South Carolina native, and will have to bear the history of my state for as long as I live. My family has a family cemetery in the country, and there's several ancestors of mine who fought in the Civil War. From my perspective, Americans who have served in the military and sacrificed themselves in battle should always be given respect and honored. Even if what they fought for was deemed wrong by history.
Having stated that, IMO the Civil War was wrong. There will always be those in the south that deliberately turn ignorant and blind eyes towards the true reasons for the Civil War. They try to re-invent history. They try to spin facts.
But the politicians and leaders of at least South Carolina made it a point of record to document specifically the points at issue they had with the Union, on December 24th, 1860 titled "Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union". This document removes all doubt and need for interpretation as to SC's reasons. So let's just skip all that nonsense.
The Battle Flag wasn't even a flag for South Carolina, or for it's state's Sons who fought and died in the Civil War. The flag was an afterthought for the vast majority of South Carolinians for decades after the end of the war.
Put it away in a museum commemorating the Civil War. Like all the other war relics have been treated that were from other wars fought for far more honorable reasons. State sovereignty grounds and property are supposed to be representative of ALL its' citizens, and the Battle Flag clearly never held that distinction...
Having stated that, IMO the Civil War was wrong. There will always be those in the south that deliberately turn ignorant and blind eyes towards the true reasons for the Civil War. They try to re-invent history. They try to spin facts.
But the politicians and leaders of at least South Carolina made it a point of record to document specifically the points at issue they had with the Union, on December 24th, 1860 titled "Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union". This document removes all doubt and need for interpretation as to SC's reasons. So let's just skip all that nonsense.
The Battle Flag wasn't even a flag for South Carolina, or for it's state's Sons who fought and died in the Civil War. The flag was an afterthought for the vast majority of South Carolinians for decades after the end of the war.
Put it away in a museum commemorating the Civil War. Like all the other war relics have been treated that were from other wars fought for far more honorable reasons. State sovereignty grounds and property are supposed to be representative of ALL its' citizens, and the Battle Flag clearly never held that distinction...
Only you allow it to happen. It starts with you. You can't control other people, so don't try. Just be a good man at all times yourself (or woman... I wasn't sure
).
Life is messy. Just relax and think positively. (Message brought to you from the Sunshine Pumper of the Day.)
Just because you take down the flag doesn't mean racism or slavery will end. That's why I don't get this whole ordeal.
Children will die because of hunger, but the flag is down.
Someone will rob a store in order to continue their addictions, but the flag is down.
Immigrants will be sold into sex slavery, but the flag is down.
There are bigger issues to deal with than a piece of cloth..
And as long as South Carolina doesn't fly a flag on state grounds commemorating or representing world hunger, armed robbery, and sex slavery, they will remain bigger issues.
You put out the fires that you can, sir. You usually first begin with the ones charring your feet.....
I am white, but very happy today. We can now lead this nation in unity, instead of being a laughing stock and being called racist Nazis. We are a great people and we finally showed some wisdom. Our children can now have a better future, being part of the human race. Our state and athletics now have a chance to flourish and not be stopped. That punk murderer did not win, he will not get his race war.
Praise God !
Praise God !
This has been a sore point of mine for 10+ years!! I had seen that flag in Alabama, but nobody talks about it, particularly the NAACP and the NCAA.
I'm ok with them taking it down . But the now everything is going to be great is not going to happen. We will still be called the racist south.
It was way past time. Thank goodness we are entering the 21st century.
No, everything is not going to suddenly be great, but it will be better.
Notice that even though there was slavery in the north, we're still the "racist south" as you put it. That's because the north moved away from it and the south kept fighting for it. Maybe now that we've put this flag to rest (as should have been done 150 years ago), we'll have a chance to move forward and be seen as a little less racist in years to come.
Putting the confederate flag in a museum will not end bigotry and racism, but it shows that finally, as a state, South Carolina is willing to try.
Shannon
USC '88
Taking it down won't effect my life in the least. I'm not saying symbols are meaningless, but anyone who thinks their life or their children's lives will be significantly changed because a flag came down (or stayed up) from behind the confederate monument needs to question their focus.
They will be after the monuments next. The left will never be happy until they erase the whole history of the country.
That very fact right there has baffled me for the last 30 years - every since I first read it back in 1985.
It's actually past time folks, but I'm quite delighted that it's happening tomorrow. And look, I'm a southern conservative/libertarian type.
But that's just me.
But as of today, we stopped promoting racism by putting a flag co-opted by white supremacists in front of our seat of government. That's a start.
Don't fall into the trap of hyperbole. No one is erasing "the whole history of the country." Come on.
This Confederate flag (the battle flag for the army of Northern Virginia) NEVER FLEW over the statehouse in Columbia during the civil war. Not until April 11, 1961 was it hoisted by then-Governor (D) Ernest Hollings and a SC legislature that in 1961 was ONE HUNDRED (100%) PERCENT "Democratic" ... not a single elected 'Republican' in the SC House OR SC Senate when it went up in 'protest' of sweeping new federal laws.
Even former SC Governor and long-time US Senator, (R) Strom Thurmond didn't 'switch' to the Republican Party until 1964.
That flag went "up" in protest of federal civil rights legislation beginning with the US Supreme Court Brown v. Board of Education decision in the mid-50's - which led to integration ... Georgia was the 1st state to 'respond' with a 'flag' in protest ... changing its 'state flag' to incorporate the Confederate battle flag with its then blue field background and state seal in 1956, followed by Mississippi then by SC, as noted above.
NONE of those legislative actions had anything to do with 'honoring' Confederate soldiers. It was done in protest against integration, proposed new voting rights legislation and proposed new 'fair housing' legislation ... both of which subsequently passed in Congress during the 60's and became 'federal' law.
FWIW - a REPUBLICAN, Senator Everett Dirksen was given the NAACP's 'highest award' for LEADING the fight in Congress to 'pass' the most important civil rights laws in our history. Though in the 'minority' party throughout the 60's it was REPUBLICANS who were most responsible for actually 'passing' civil rights ... MUCH HIGHER percentages of Republicans v. Democrats supported civil rights legislation.
Take it down?
It should never have GONE UP in the first place.
Not until the third-party 'Dixiecrats' (who nominated Thurmond as their candidate for President in 1948) did THAT flag even appear very often in public ... EXCEPT when carried by Members of the Klu Klux Klan, who early on 'adopted' that particular banner as 'their flag'. THAT'S its most 'recent' history. It was 'pulled out of the closet' to represent racism and resistance.
I was born in Georgia 65 years ago, schooled in SC and live here now. I had MANY 'ancestors' fight in the civil war for the Confederacy. NONE of them owned 'slaves'. They were farmers and loggers and naval stores workers from Charleston, SC to Valdosta, GA. That flag doesn't 'honor' them ... it represents TODAY what it represented in 1961 ... NOT the men who fought under it in 1861.
It's about dang time it came down. "Honoring our ancestors' - what hogwash.
As far as 'racism' - it's as bad as anywhere in America in Chicago or Pittsburgh, Boston or Philadelphia, Columbus, Ohio ... Cleveland or Harrisburg ... it ain't just SC, GA, Alabama or Mississippi - I've SEEN it myself in all those places.
Governor Haley did the right thing. It's long past time somebody did it. No, it won't stop 'racism' - but, it doesn't 'flaunt it', either. Not anymore.
Even former SC Governor and long-time US Senator, (R) Strom Thurmond didn't 'switch' to the Republican Party until 1964.
That flag went "up" in protest of federal civil rights legislation beginning with the US Supreme Court Brown v. Board of Education decision in the mid-50's - which led to integration ... Georgia was the 1st state to 'respond' with a 'flag' in protest ... changing its 'state flag' to incorporate the Confederate battle flag with its then blue field background and state seal in 1956, followed by Mississippi then by SC, as noted above.
NONE of those legislative actions had anything to do with 'honoring' Confederate soldiers. It was done in protest against integration, proposed new voting rights legislation and proposed new 'fair housing' legislation ... both of which subsequently passed in Congress during the 60's and became 'federal' law.
FWIW - a REPUBLICAN, Senator Everett Dirksen was given the NAACP's 'highest award' for LEADING the fight in Congress to 'pass' the most important civil rights laws in our history. Though in the 'minority' party throughout the 60's it was REPUBLICANS who were most responsible for actually 'passing' civil rights ... MUCH HIGHER percentages of Republicans v. Democrats supported civil rights legislation.
Take it down?
It should never have GONE UP in the first place.
Not until the third-party 'Dixiecrats' (who nominated Thurmond as their candidate for President in 1948) did THAT flag even appear very often in public ... EXCEPT when carried by Members of the Klu Klux Klan, who early on 'adopted' that particular banner as 'their flag'. THAT'S its most 'recent' history. It was 'pulled out of the closet' to represent racism and resistance.
I was born in Georgia 65 years ago, schooled in SC and live here now. I had MANY 'ancestors' fight in the civil war for the Confederacy. NONE of them owned 'slaves'. They were farmers and loggers and naval stores workers from Charleston, SC to Valdosta, GA. That flag doesn't 'honor' them ... it represents TODAY what it represented in 1961 ... NOT the men who fought under it in 1861.
It's about dang time it came down. "Honoring our ancestors' - what hogwash.
As far as 'racism' - it's as bad as anywhere in America in Chicago or Pittsburgh, Boston or Philadelphia, Columbus, Ohio ... Cleveland or Harrisburg ... it ain't just SC, GA, Alabama or Mississippi - I've SEEN it myself in all those places.
Governor Haley did the right thing. It's long past time somebody did it. No, it won't stop 'racism' - but, it doesn't 'flaunt it', either. Not anymore.
What nobody gets is that this was a political stunt staged by Nikki to garner votes in either her push to the Senate or VP under Trump. She could care less about the white man at this point. Who saw her hugging up to Jessie? If you don't understand this, you are from New York.
Similar threads
