Yes/No question
- Thread starter sclawman77
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And who else has ever brought in big time players here since FM1????
And did that special person EVER get to the Final Four??
I await your answer...
We are talking MEN'S basketball... FM1 was 50 years ago...
Try to keep up. I know it's hard..
There is no comparison between the 2017 team and this year's team. 2017 had talent, but more importantly, they were a veteran upperclass team. This year's team is comparably a team of snot nosed kids (except Kotsar). The horrible passes are fixable with more experience, same for the free throws, same for out of position for rebounds, same for missed assignments, same for miscommunication on the imbounds. This team needs continuity playing time between teammates, the initial sorting out of who should be on the floor in early season has been upended by recent injuries. Most of our losses were due to fixable errors, not lack of talent. Cut the passes out of bound in half and cut the missed free throws in half alone, and we would likely be 21-6, or so, right now. This team is poised for a tournament run next year, and it will be plain to see before mid-season. Whether Frank is still here, or not, is the question. A coaching change may change things, either way.
Errors are due to lack of talent. You make work some out, but you still don't have consistent shooters and big men that can't score. Poised for a run? They would really have to make incredible turns in game play.
One year of almost glory should not give you a 10 year job without the ultimate goal of being a consistent tournament qualifier.
Name me the SEC teams with our history in basketball the last 35 years that are a consistent tournament qualifier??
That's the point. Fogler and Odom were the best winners in those years. Odom was the NIT expert and Fogler got them there a few times and then was embarrassed. Do we really want a .500 BB team year in and year out?
You're delusional.
Who brought the most prestigious banner to mens basketball at USC?
Is Franks reputation more respectable than Fogler, Odom, and Horn?
we can do better, but if history is any indicator, we'll probably do worse....js
So, do we just accept that "we are who we are" and never expect better because we've never done much? Yes, the program is in a much better place now than it was when Horn left. Of course, we could have said the same after Martin's 2nd year because "better than Horn" is a pretty low bar. Other than our lightening-in-a-bottle year, the last 6 years under Martin have looked pretty much the same.
I can't answer your question, but I'll ask you one. Name an SEC coach (heck, a coach of any conference in the modern era) who built a consistent tournament qualifier _after_ going 1-7 in his first four years. If there's a history of that kind of patience paying off, I'd be willing to give it a try, but I can't think of an example.
Also, before we get carried away with the "consistent qualifier" label, it's worth noting that nobody is asking that of Martin at this time. Two tournament appearances in 8 years would barely make us "relevant," let alone "consistent qualifier" status.
Because calling you delusional about our basketball team is so much worse than your passive aggressive banter. Ta ta.
I can't answer your question either, off the top of my head, and I am not going to spend the time to do your research... I also didn't bring up the "consistent qualifier" term.. I just replied to the poster that did.
I also give Frank the first two years grace period, so I don't count his term as eight years.
So, in 2015-16 with 25 wins, we were given the nod to be in the tournament only to be pulled AFTER we were told we were in. Off to the NIT, instead. That was year 2. Next year Final Four. Last year, finish 4th in SEC and not invited to tournament. First time the 4th place team in SEC has not been invited to tournament. Injuries to two starters - lost for the year (ask North Carolina how season ending injuries work out) and still finish 4th in SEC but no tourney.
Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox and let the Fire Frank crowd do their usual. We lost, so it's their time to do their thing..
I will sit here and wait for Coach K or Mark Few to walk thru the door next... maybe they will talk Saban into coming too.
Want to talk delusional? How about thinking we can't to better than Martin. How about making the Final Four then going under .500 the next two seasons vs D1 schools and thinking everything is all right. How about losing to Boston and Stetson to teach "life lessons", give me a break. Getting 4th in the SEC should have meant something last year, a bid into the NCAAs. All it really did was give us a .500 record. Delusional is thinking we are lucky to have a coach who only has mid majors coming after him (UNLV and Cincinnati). I am sick and tired of excuses, maybe it is what we Gamecocks do best. Our history is bad, other programs have moved past it, we don't. Under Armour hurts us! Auburn was in the Final Four and Texas Tech just won it all! Excuse after excuse. Bottom line is after 8 years we should not have to be sweating horrible losses to see if by some change we can be a bubble team. You got to know when it is time to move on. I guess we can use the same ole wait till next year! line.
Not an SEC school, but Baylor was really bad from 1951 on. from 1950 to 1988 no NCAAs, then not again till 2008. Since 2010 they have been in 7 times, going on 8. All this after a murder scandal.
Did the MWC or AAC become a power conference? Have either really done a lot since Huggins and Tark left? Do they have the cash flow of a Power conference?
Oh wait I forgot it's all about history, not the reality of now.
...Thats not what mid-major means...
Anyway, Lets talk about now... The reality of now is we are top half the conference coming off the best 5 year stretch in 40 years including a final four and an very talented young team....
No. Just based on his results through 8 years, he doesn't DESERVE to come back, meaning, I don't think he's earned a right to be retained. But, based on our history, I also don't think you can say he deserves to be fired.
Here's the thing, I partly agree with you. 1 tourney in 7 (yes 7*) years doesnt sound great. But you have to understand, Horn left cracks in the foundation. It took a miracle worker to bring this program back to life. You have to give credit where it's due. Frank has resuscitated this program from life support...
Who was has more under .500 seasons than winning seasons, vs D1 schools. What did finishing number 4 in the SEC get us last year?
2 byes in the tournament...
Heres your problem man. You look around at everyone else and want what they have. Baylor this, UNLV that. The issue with living like that is you will never be satisfied. Its an unhealthy way to live.
I'm a Gamecock, lifelong. I want what's best for us. Frank Martin has worked a miracle bringing our program back to life. In the last 5 years we have a winning record of 100-62. That's the highest winning percentage of any 5 year stretch in 40 years, and you want to scrap it because we lost to LSU. Give me a break.
You are right about Horn. No questioning that. But 8 years is pretty generous for rebuilding time, particularly in college basketball where one or two players can turn things around quick. What hurts Frank most, in my opinion, is the trajectory of the program since the FF run.
Check that trajectory again... from 7 wins to 11..
And you keep saying 8 years. It's 7. This year is not over yet!
I'm pretty sure this is Year 8...first season was 2012-2013.
First year after FF was 17-16. Last year was 16-16. So far this year is a tick better at 16-11, but it's not shaping up to be substantially better than the last 2 seasons.
check another box, the "here's your problem" box. Sorry if I expect better.
You don't think 16-11 led by freshmen and sophomores is better than 16-16 led by seniors?
That they are, friend... and Kotsar is certainly one of our key players! We will absolutely miss Maik.
Here’s my response after reading everyone of yours. I have little to no sympathy for the million dollar coaches that produce $2.00 teams and that is where Martin (and Muskrat are now). I read on this thread and many others that Martin is building a “culture” and making men out of boys. Here comes my “no sympathy” card where i dont give two shits about them being “made a man” when we all know we are paying them to play basketball for USC. The “making men” part comes for the Chaplain and the support group associated with the team but not needed from the Millon dollar coach.
Tweet dat
Tweet dat
Come on dude. HE"S WINNING TOO! 2 dollar teams don't have winning records in the SEC... Stop being so melodramatic.
New coach critical..1 tourney in 9 years ??? What AD in the country would stand for this while paying millions to the coach ? Don't get snowed..this program is mediocre
