Don’t you know if a coach doesn’t be a OC or dc (st apparently doesn’t count) then he doesn’t know how to ... uh,... hmm... coordinate an offense or defense!
CBS: ranking coaching hires
- Thread starter wentzel25
- Start date
For example: will Muschamp was a very well regarded dc so as a head coach that side of the ball excelled
Yeah, that seems to be the rationale. There are probably more cases of head coaches with coordinator experience who meddled too much in either the offense or defense and interfered with the coordinator and caused problems than cases where coaches were hands-off, let their coordinators do their thing and excelled.
Now you are finally coming around. This is the most accurate statement you have made yet and is the the exact reason most level headed, thinking individuals are not ready to endorse this coach as a quality hire. There is nothing to suggest that he is.
It wasnt meant to be. It was a question.
I'm going to assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that your response means you weren't being sarcastic.
As for why coordinator experience would be important, in 99% of coaching careers, there is a hierarchy of responsibilities. GA, analyst, any number of smaller jobs, followed by position coaches, followed by OC and DC, then head coach.
It's fine to argue that some people can/should skip steps. But it's silly, imo, to pretend that hierarchy doesnt exist.
Dear member of the Gamecock forum from Dec. 2019 (ahem),
This article, which is no better or worse than any other sports journalist opinion, is closer to correct than you people who have joined up in the last 3-4 months to promote S. Beamer as the next D. Swinney.
From the Beamer camp (which you are obviously part of...literally) - it's a 'wait and see there may be magic in them thar hills' approach.
But, the rest of us farmers would rather plant the seeds that we know will grow, work hard and do our best. Maybe there is gold in the hills...but all you SB campers have zero proof or indication that this will happen. It's just fantasy land speculation. IF we hit the powerball with this hire....all true GAMECOCK fans will be elated. But, based on everything SB brings coming in .... as we sit today our program has similar odds of winning from that one ticket we just bought.
Because they've actually earned jobs, had responsibility and thrown their d##k on the line over and over? I don't like either one of those guys, and I personally think both were overrated....but if you think SB is in the same stratosphere as those guys about knowledge on how to run a D1 Program, navigate Univ. and NCAA rules, find the right hires and keep that juggling act going day after day then you're completely wrong.
I don't think those two guys are great HCs....but so few HCs are because of how hard it all is...especially in the SEC.
Those two guys were considered can't miss guys until they showed up to coach in the SEC. Football is humbling enough....but coaching or playing in the SEC brings on a whole new concept of that.
That's still not an explanation of why coordinator experience is essential to be qualified as a head coach.
I think ever since he left here he was Associate head coach or assistant head coach at all stops. Helping run day to day personnel, recruiting-not X and Os guy. Really don’t think being a coordinator helps. You can name people it has, but the Saban coaching tree of D coordinators has shown it doesn’t matter a ton
There are no other opinions that have been expressed here that contain any real facts. One poster has already been asked to provide evidence that would suggest this hire is a great hire and he has yet to do so. Do you have any? Can you show any great accomplishments by this coach that would lead one to the conclusion that this is a can't miss HC hire? So far we've only heard "he's a great guy", "he is well liked," 'former players like him," and my personal favorite, "he has a great pedigree" (as if he were a cocker spaniel in a dog show). I suppose some people think that since his daddy was a successful coach he will automatically be one too. If that were the case, either Skip Holtz or Steve Spurrier, Jr would be our coach now.
Didnt say essential. You first asked why it's important. Being the standard stepping stone means its important for 99% of candidates.
Again, I would argue reasons why SB should circumvent the normal path. But pretending the normal path doesnt exist is just silly.
I've acknowledged it's the usual path, but there's no real reason why it should be.
What sense does it make to have a guy as head coach who is an offensive specialist or a defensive specialist? I mean, Muschamp is the absolute prime example of this. He was highly regarded as a defensive guy (though I think that's questionable) but he could never figure things out on offense. This happens all the time in head coaching. There's just no reason to think that a guy who was great as OC or DC will be a good head coach. We're just accustomed to that being the normal path.
He has shown to be very incorrect in the past though so that holds zero water but thanks for playing
That is true. An offensive coach needs to make a good DC hire, and vice versa.
But theres something to be said for running an offense vs being a position coach. One is certainly a step up in complexity and responsibility.
It's been the normal path because it makes sense, not because its nonsense.
It kind of makes sense. Except that there are too many cases to mention of great coordinators who made horrible head coaches. Most coaching hires fail, so I'm not sure why folks are so married to the "needs to have coordinator experience" paradigm.
I hate to use the Dabo comparison, but he has shown that what really matters is not having coordinator experience but rather being able to put together a talented staff that works well togetherk.
Exactly. Sometimes you wonder why they don’t go after athletic directors for HC rather than co-ordinators. They obviously know the spot, but they’ve shown that they can effectively create a team of personnel and work with that team. Plus they’d jump at the chance since it would quadruple their pay.
That is true. The real comparison would be the rate of failure for coaches who skipped the step vs those that didnt.
I can see where a mailroom employee may be the right guy for the CEO position, but I'd still want him to work up the ladder. (Large exaggeration, I know)
Well since cbs didn't produce such back in regards to the 2016 hires, here's Athlons who had Champ at C+.
2021 college football coaching carousel grades: Gus Malzahn to UCF an A+, Lance Leipold to Kansas an A-
Dennis Dodd grades each team for their hires during the college football offseasonwww.cbssports.com
Just sayin'.
I wonder what Dabo's grade was when he got hired?2021 college football coaching carousel grades: Gus Malzahn to UCF an A+, Lance Leipold to Kansas an A-
Dennis Dodd grades each team for their hires during the college football offseason
But you contradict yourself. On the one hand, You say giving a grade to a coach before he has coached is proven to be inaccurate. But on the other hand, you post that RT has made a great hire in Beamer. In essence you give RT a high grade for hiring Beamer.
I am confused with your logic.
I have said things that I like about SB in consideration of the candidates we had available if you want to look at my post history I gave a few choices that made a better choice on paper
I am also not posting a grade. I am also not posting on a major media website. I also have not had a history of being incredibly wrong on giving coaching grades
I hope this clears things up for you
Here's the thing with the dabo comparison. Even if Beamer were able to mirror that success, do you think our fanbase would have the patience to stick with him after going 6-7 in his third year?
Would we keep him if he loses 5 in a row to clem? I'm not so sure we do.
Oh man. Congratulations on your 5 1/2 years of membership. Your parents must be super proud. It must open so many doors for you as the top line on your resume. I, for one, think we are all incredibly fortunate to be able to learn so much from your extensive history on a message board.
Are you saying then there is a reason to think that a great TE coach has as great a shot as being a good HC as a DC or OC? Any evidence of this? Or are you simply speculating?
Bret Bielema, Butch Jones and Bowden shows this author has absolutely no creditability.
Been a member longer than that....I go back the Border Wars days.
What you're parents shouldn't be proud of...is you are the weakest, dumbest and most annoying type of human being. An internet (possibly paid...but definitely with an agenda) troll who knows nothing about this board's discussions, but has a main interest in stirring up crap at every turn. There are a few of your type on here. Not those with differing opinions from myself or others....but exactly what I described. You are the personification of a turd.
Well, we're probably going to lose to them five more years in a row regardless.
But if we are bringing in top 10 recruiting classes and at least looking like a respectable, well-coached team for a change in the process, then yes.
If we are still relying on FCS transfers and bringing up rear of the SEC and looking like we have no clue what we're doing, then also yes.
Because we don't ever get out in front of a problem here. We have to let it fester and metastasize until it's a life-threatening illness before we get off our ass and do something about it.
Figure CBS got this about right. In fact may have been a bit generous in their grade. I know it offends the sunshine pumpers, but tell me one other school in the SEC that would have seriously considered Beamer? And lots of Power 5 schools out there that apparently weren't impressed enough with his 20 year experience to seriously consider him either.
Agree. It's a neutral grade.
However this comment is stupid: "Beamer can't afford any more slippage."
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