Did Tanner make a big mistake?

[cockofdawn]

I control my RE deals, I don't control the baseball team. All those teams aren't dealing with a whole new staff that is trying to fix what the old staff royally screwed up. Consistency does have merit in baseball...and will get you wins over a team (even one maybe more talented from top to bottom) that is admittedly struggling with the changes.

Well then we will agree to disagree, No way a team with the facilities, money and history, should lose to a Citadel, a Furman and a Presbyterian's "Mid Week" starters PERIOD.. think of how bad they would have done agsint those three teams ACES.. SO NO, regardless of "PEAKS and VALLEYS" The University of South Carolina's Baseball team should not lose to those three teams (not to mention all the others) PERIOD, much less against their mid week starters..
But hey, like you think, I know NOTHING about Baseball. And if this is the norm, Maybe I dont...

 

[Cackdiesel]

Thinking too much is the main issue with changing a player's hitting stroke and approach at the plate. They will think and at times fall back into old habits until the new approach becomes second nature. Has anyone EVER played this game and had a coach change their stroke or approach at the plate? Geesh!

I have, and it sucked. I was a good hitter before the change and ended up playing for a coach who thought everyone should hit the same way. Completely screwed me up. He changed everyone, regardless of how well they were hitting.

 

[radcock]

When Ray Tanner hired Kingston, did he make a colossal mistake? We have lost to just about every small school in our state this year. Although Kingston is in his first year and these are not his recruits, one has to believe that we have a big talent edge over the likes of PC and all the other little guys that have had tons of fun whippin our asses. A coach is supposed to lead a team, develop a winning sprit, field teams that play hard no matter what the talent level, a coach must do this in order to be successful, no matter if it is his first year on the job or his fifth. Kingston has not shown that he can coach up a team. I said when he was hired that he sounded good in his interviews but talking a good game doesn't cut it when the tailgate drops. Have to say I'm terribly disappointed in Mr. Kingston and his team at this point in time.

I think it a bit premature to throw in the towel on a guy who was handed a bag of shyt.

There is no way he should be expected to fix our offensive woes in a few months. The reason you win midweek games is because you outscore them. Our players cannot hit with consistency. Ergo, we go through lots of dry spells.

We used to have 5-6 starters on our team that were guaranteed pro prospects to go along with 5-6 pitchers. I don't see that right now.

Also, it was a lot easier to beat smaller teams in the Tanner era. A lot of the smaller schools can fill in the scholarship gaps because they do the same for the average student. UVA and Vandy do this as well. I have 2 friends who have kids playing baseball at smaller schools. Both were offered the minimal scholarship (.25) at big schools, but chose Elon and Marshall instead. They are both going to college for close to free. All I am saying is that good hitters are out there on small teams. Heck, Ray used to lay off some great hitters because their fielding was suspect. These guys land someone, often in our own state.

I will reserve judgement until after year 3 of recruiting and on the field. It would be an act of insanity to even consider firing a coach after 1 season, unless he had ethical or legal issues. I like the fact that he gets all pissed off after a loss. Chad had gotten to the point where he did not seem to care.

As far as RT, he has proven that he was a better baseball coach than an AD. Hard to argue this.

 

[atl-cock]

In all fairness I said that the assistant coaches needed to be canned in 2015, if CCH was retained. And we all know how well that went over, given my questioning of a certain assistant coach. Unfortunately none of the staff changed, and we're left with the mess we are in. The fault lies with ALL of them.

I do recall your posting that CCH needed to make coaching changes. And he did - nothing.

 

[caigmaster]

When Ray Tanner hired Kingston, did he make a colossal mistake? We have lost to just about every small school in our state this year. Although Kingston is in his first year and these are not his recruits, one has to believe that we have a big talent edge over the likes of PC and all the other little guys that have had tons of fun whippin our asses. A coach is supposed to lead a team, develop a winning sprit, field teams that play hard no matter what the talent level, a coach must do this in order to be successful, no matter if it is his first year on the job or his fifth. Kingston has not shown that he can coach up a team. I said when he was hired that he sounded good in his interviews but talking a good game doesn't cut it when the tailgate drops. Have to say I'm terribly disappointed in Mr. Kingston and his team at this point in time.

No.

 

[USCBatgirl21]

I do recall your posting that CCH needed to make coaching changes. And he did - nothing.

In fact we got the "I have the best staff in the Nation" line. Yeah...he and that staff left us in the state we are in.

I will admit, I thought that this season would go better than it has. It hasn't. I see glimpses of the greatness we all know, but they are so very hot and cold. No consistency. The guys certainly like CMK much more than they ever did CCH. But the bad habits are proving to take longer to break. CMK will get the proverbial "pass" from me this season. But a full year and half (by February 2019) should be enough to start moving things consistently in the right direction.

 

[rogue cock]

In fact we got the "I have the best staff in the Nation" line. Yeah...he and that staff left us in the state we are in.

I will admit, I thought that this season would go better than it has. It hasn't. I see glimpses of the greatness we all know, but they are so very hot and cold. No consistency. The guys certainly like CMK much more than they ever did CCH. But the bad habits are proving to take longer to break. CMK will get the proverbial "pass" from me this season. But a full year and half (by February 2019) should be enough to start moving things consistently in the right direction.

Agree on all points.

 

[ExpatCarolinian]

In fact we got the "I have the best staff in the Nation" line. Yeah...he and that staff left us in the state we are in.

I will admit, I thought that this season would go better than it has. It hasn't. I see glimpses of the greatness we all know, but they are so very hot and cold. No consistency. The guys certainly like CMK much more than they ever did CCH. But the bad habits are proving to take longer to break. CMK will get the proverbial "pass" from me this season. But a full year and half (by February 2019) should be enough to start moving things consistently in the right direction.

So nice to see reasonable fans who aren’t always doom and gloom.

 

[rogue cock]

I have, and it sucked. I was a good hitter before the change and ended up playing for a coach who thought everyone should hit the same way. Completely screwed me up. He changed everyone, regardless of how well they were hitting.

I guess I was fortunate. I had always been good at fielding, but was a very streaky hitter. I had a Dixie Youth coach who turned me into a good, consistent contact hitter....got me to quit "swingin' for the fences" and just make good solid contact with the ball. I had warning track power with a Babe Ruth ego.

 

[jbouton]

I do recall your posting that CCH needed to make coaching changes. And he did - nothing.

In fact we got the "I have the best staff in the Nation" line. Yeah...he and that staff left us in the state we are in.

I will admit, I thought that this season would go better than it has. It hasn't. I see glimpses of the greatness we all know, but they are so very hot and cold. No consistency. The guys certainly like CMK much more than they ever did CCH. But the bad habits are proving to take longer to break. CMK will get the proverbial "pass" from me this season. But a full year and half (by February 2019) should be enough to start moving things consistently in the right direction.

I do like many pitchers are getting opportunities. The previous staff would have used the usual 4 to 5 guys over and over. I look at it as auditions for next year. Some may go some may stay.

 

[flatwoodcock]

Ray did make a mistake. It began when he left the dugout. We’ve been paying a heavy price ever since; certainly in baseball. But it could be argued administratively as well.

He was a helluva better baseball coach than he is an AD.

 

[anon_n4c0cp5zhdxn7]

Seems impossible to declare Kingston as a mistake, and a bit unfair, as he hasn't even completed his first season yet. What you want is a coach that improves the team every year. For the record, Muschamp took a 3-9 team and improved to 6-7 and 9-4 but fans were calling his hire a mistake when he started off 2-4. People are disgruntled the basketball team didn't finish better but Martin's teams have been 14-18, 14-20, 17-16, 25-9, 26-11, 17-16. Yes, last season was disappointing but overall, he has improved the program. Exact same situation with Dawn Staley, 10-18, 14-15, 18-15, 25-10, 25-8, 29-5, 34-3, 33-2, 33-4, 29-7. If people gave up on her, during her first season, we wouldn't have had a national championship.

 

[gamecockjosh]

Too early to say it's a mistake. Hard to believe the situation that Kingston inherited, but he can thank his boss for allowing Holbrook to sink the ship. Our problem is that we have to give him at probably 2-3 years before we lay the blame at his doorstep. Although the ridiculous small school losses should stop next year. Unacceptable.

 

[USCBatgirl21]

I do like many pitchers are getting opportunities. The previous staff would have used the usual 4 to 5 guys over and over. I look at it as auditions for next year. Some may go some may stay.

As you say...at least they are getting a chance. That is a pleasant change.

 

[robertfootball]

Muschamp was left with much less talent his first year and he managed to turn chicken crap into chicken salad. Giving a guy a free pass his first year is one thing, turning a blind eye is another. I'm not impressed with Kingston so far, wasn't really all that impressed with his record before he got here.

 

[rogue cock]

Muschamp was left with much less talent his first year and he managed to turn chicken crap into chicken salad. Giving a guy a free pass his first year is one thing, turning a blind eye is another. I'm not impressed with Kingston so far, wasn't really all that impressed with his record before he got here.

Completely disagree on that one.

 

[robertfootball]

Completely disagree on that one.

Was Holbrook a good recruiter but terrible coach? Or was he a terrible recruiter and a terrible coach?

 

[anon_n4c0cp5zhdxn7]

Muschamp was left with much less talent his first year and he managed to turn chicken crap into chicken salad. Giving a guy a free pass his first year is one thing, turning a blind eye is another. I'm not impressed with Kingston so far, wasn't really all that impressed with his record before he got here.

Were you impressed with Muschamp's? Just curious why Muschamp should have time to right the ship but Kingston is a failure.

You know what, never mind. I retract the question.

 

[rogue cock]

Was Holbrook a good recruiter but terrible coach? Or was he a terrible recruiter and a terrible coach?

Don't think he could evaluate or develop talent. Good salesman....just need to tell him who to sell to.

 

[achilles#]

Well one thing I want say about Kingston versus Holbrook.

No one likes these mid-week losses. But my impression is we have taken on a slew of highly ranked teams in weekend series so far. The same teams are on the schedule as in most years (barring SEC rotations), but a lot of them seem like they are playing better ball than in past years - and I think it is showing in the baseball rankings.

They have a number like RPI in college ball right? I'd be interested to know what this years team is compared to last year's and the year before.

My suspicion is we have played more ranked teams than we have in a few years. Not that it applies to these mid-week games, but it sure seems like we are playing teams that are top ten or top fifteen or something every week.

Know the SEC is a tough neighborhood, but my impression is our opponents have mostly been better than what they were last year.

 

[robertfootball]

Were you impressed with Muschamp's? Just curious why Muschamp should have time to right the ship but Kingston is a failure.

You know what, never mind. I retract the question.

I have been far more impressed with Muschamp in his first year than I have been with Kingston. If you remember, Muschamp didn't exactly come in here with the reputation of being a winner, but I'll give the guy credit he's done a lot with what he's had to work with.

 

[bucketdad]

It took Muschamp no time at all to improve our defensive secondary. The difference in what we had the year before and the product he managed to put on the field was astounding. Not saying we should expect the same results from Kingston (a major weakness corrected right away) and I don't think it's fair to do so. But if you did, Muschamp wins hands down.

 

[Dingus MaGee]

Coaching is not our problem. Players are. I'll give King credit for not throwing them under the bus in the media, but you can tell his patience is wearing thin. Our players need to make the plays that are presented for them. Bottom line. At this point, this is the most underachieving group we've had. They cannot string hits together at all. They have veruy little fight in them period. I think they all understand they might be on the transfer block at the end.

 

[world famous 3rd base hecklers]

When Ray Tanner hired Kingston, did he make a colossal mistake? We have lost to just about every small school in our state this year. Although Kingston is in his first year and these are not his recruits, one has to believe that we have a big talent edge over the likes of PC and all the other little guys that have had tons of fun whippin our asses. A coach is supposed to lead a team, develop a winning sprit, field teams that play hard no matter what the talent level, a coach must do this in order to be successful, no matter if it is his first year on the job or his fifth. Kingston has not shown that he can coach up a team. I said when he was hired that he sounded good in his interviews but talking a good game doesn't cut it when the tailgate drops. Have to say I'm terribly disappointed in Mr. Kingston and his team at this point in time.

Ray's first mistake was to hire Chad Holbroken as the Head Coach...

 

[Kitchenlabs]

I have posited this before. In an earlier era, I would have been lynched for it.

Oh please not again....Ray was no longer going to coach. If he hadn't gotten the position here, he would have left USC for another administrative position. Everyone has known for years that that was his intention.

 

[Kitchenlabs]

Was Holbrook a good recruiter but terrible coach? Or was he a terrible recruiter and a terrible coach?

He was a mediocre recruiter and a really terrible coach.

 

[Kitchenlabs]

Well one thing I want say about Kingston versus Holbrook.

No one likes these mid-week losses. But my impression is we have taken on a slew of highly ranked teams in weekend series so far. The same teams are on the schedule as in most years (barring SEC rotations), but a lot of them seem like they are playing better ball than in past years - and I think it is showing in the baseball rankings.

They have a number like RPI in college ball right? I'd be interested to know what this years team is compared to last year's and the year before.

My suspicion is we have played more ranked teams than we have in a few years. Not that it applies to these mid-week games, but it sure seems like we are playing teams that are top ten or top fifteen or something every week.

Know the SEC is a tough neighborhood, but my impression is our opponents have mostly been better than what they were last year.

Georgia is a perfect example.

 

[king ward]

Oh please not again....Ray was no longer going to coach. If he hadn't gotten the position here, he would have left USC for another administrative position. Everyone has known for years that that was his intention.

Not the point. The point is that it is impossible to express certain views regarding Tanner's leaving the dugout for the AD's chair without incurring excoriation.

 

[Kitchenlabs]

Ray's first mistake was to hire Chad Holbroken as the Head Coach...

At the time it was the logical choice. Having said that he should have been fired after 2015.

 

[Kitchenlabs]

Not the point. The point is that it is impossible to express certain views regarding Tanner's leaving the dugout for the AD's chair without incurring excoriation.

Why? He has the right to make a career change as much as anyone else.

 

[king ward]

Why? He has the right to make a career change as much as anyone else.

And he should also expect to have the impact of that change, really two changes in this instance, appraised by the program's constituency.

 

[Kitchenlabs]

And he should also expect to have the impact of that change, really two changes in this instance, appraised by the program's constituency.

As does anyone in any job. In his case his impact has been appraised positively, especially by the BOT and Pastides.

 

[king ward]

As does anyone in any job. In his case his impact has been appraised positively, especially by the BOT and Pastides.

They elevated him and they are bound to support him until they no longer can. They constitute only a part of the constituency, and their opinion is subject to change. The discussion at hand relates to the current state of our baseball team. The picture isn't pretty. He painted it.

 

[RashCock]

At the time it was the logical choice.

There was absolutely no logic in placing a baseball coach at the helm of a $100+ million dollar a year brand.

 

[atl-cock]

There was absolutely no logic in placing a baseball coach at the helm of a $100+ million dollar a year brand.

Would you say the same thing regarding Fulmer at TN?

 

[king ward]

There was absolutely no logic in placing a baseball coach at the helm of a $100+ million dollar a year brand.

There was an obvious reason having to do with malleability. I'll leave it at that. Many people on the forum wouldn't be able to handle it.

 

[cockhornleghorn]

South Florida

Before Kingston, 2014 = 27-31 overall, 10-14, conference

Kingston year 1, 2015 = 34-26 overall, 13-11
Kingston year 2, 2016 = 23-33 overall, 8-16
Kingston year 3, 2017 = 42-19 overall, 14-10

580 winning percentage, .486 in American athletic conference

His year 2 may not be better then year 1, I hope that is not the case

One problem with hiring the small school guy is his top assistant get the job which was Billy Mohl who is HC at USF and was his pitching coach there.

We hired a guy that only had 1 good year at South Florida? What was Ray thinking?

 

[Brooster]

Yes. Should have hired Kingston's assistant, Billy Mohl from USF.

 

[uscalumni]

He was a mediocre recruiter and a really terrible coach.

@Kitchenlabs how did USC get these top 15 recruiting classes under Holbrook? Was the talent overrated?

USCALUMNI

 

[andypants]

FWIW, a Dreher High graduate who pitched for PC has been in the Diamondbacks organization for a number of years.

Batboy!