Frank I thought you said....
- Thread starter cockymark
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Frank Martin's winning % at USC is around 54%. If you remove the 4-6 automatic wins at the beginning of each season it's well 45%. Why is the man still here????
He took us to the FF, 5 years ago,( haven't been to the big dance since) and he just needs more time.
Or so I've been told.
It's the same product on the floor every single year. A team that can't shoot, plays decent defense, wins one or two they shouldn't have and loses 4 or 5 they shouldn't have.
Even the FF year saw stretches of atrocious shooting. BTW, it's the only year we've been to the dance.
It's time to move on. Let Frank go to Miami. We need a change.
Even the FF year saw stretches of atrocious shooting. BTW, it's the only year we've been to the dance.
It's time to move on. Let Frank go to Miami. We need a change.
It’s interesting because some coaches know how to grow a program - but don’t know how to maintain one. I think Frank is that guy. His tenure up to the Final Four was perfection - pulling USC out of Horn’s pit of despair. But maintaining a program is a different skill set than building one - and it appears that is not Frank’s forte.
I'm not sure just who our fanbase think we are...The way some of you talk, One would think we were annual participates in the NCAA tournament prior to his arrival. We are stuck between tobacco road and several SEC schools with tremendous history in basketball. These things take time. Top basketball talent in our state have avoided our University for years, Coach Martin is making inroads with those kind of kids now. Changing coaches every 5-6 years will only to continue to set us back. I like where our basketball program is going. The man is a very good coach.
Frank has been the coach for 10 years - it's not like he has had a short leash at USC. He's shown beyond a reasonable doubt as to what he can do at USC. It's not enough.
There is no reason USC shouldn't have been back in the tourney in 2018-19 when they started, and finished, strong in SEC play - final record 11-7 in conference. But they lost early in the season to Stony Brook, Wofford and Wyoming. Because that's what happens with Frank.
The schools around us are meaningless. It's not unreasonable to expect a coach to take USC to the dance once every four seasons. Especially not in the SEC.
You should know the answer by now. We have never been any good except for one brief period of time, will never be any good because we can’t recruit, we just need to accept what we are and don’t try to be any better! It’s impossible for us to be in the middle of the ACC and recruit against team like Duke, North Carolina and all those great schools up there because we are South Carolina. So let’s just accept who we are and live with it and don’t expect anything else. In addition Frank is a good good man. He teaches his players…… At least if you stay around for two years…… How to accept verbal abuse in front of a big crowd and stI’ll play on.
See the comments by platinumspur above!
If nothing else this will prepare the players for marriage.
He's making in-roads in year ten? Negative.
We know what we get with Martin. It's about the same win % as Odom and Fogler. He's done better than I expected in the conference but he can't maintain momentum into the post-season. If you're okay with that, I understand. It's not terrible.
But frankly, I'm ready for a change. The Frank Martin groundhog day has gotten old.
it's more than enough. Who do you think we're going to be able to bring in after firing someone like Frank Martin? Candidates weren't exactly lining up to come before he took over the job. As a matter of fact, due to our unrealistic fanbase and crazy expectations, successful coaches and up and coming coaches have been advised to avoid our Men's Basketball Program. Yeah, lets fire him and see who else the GOOD OL' BOY system can bring our way. Maybe, if we're lucky, we can get another Darrin Horn.
This is one of the most ridiculous posts I have read on the topic of FM. Why anyone would still defend him at this point simply blows my mind. It’s time to move on, and I can’t think of a single argument for keeping him.
The act has grown old. Another school would have already made the change.
I think this team is really pretty good. What the problem is that I see is that Frank is so obsessed with defense that he almost refuses to integrate any type of offense to the team. They play defense to the point of exhaustion and then when they get on offense, they have no real structure or flow. It is more just dribble and shoot and hope it goes in. I love Frank but am losing faith in what he is doing.
Maybe keep Fogler away from the next search - though I don't know if you want Ray doing the hiring. There are plenty of good coaches that would jump at the job. Tons actually. The expectations-to-resources ratio is off the charts in favor of the coaches at USC.
And remember, at the time getting Frank was a coup. He was a power 5 coach that had been to the tourney 4 out of 5 years and had never won less than 21 games in a season. He was a home run. But you never know what you have until someone is actually in the building. And 10 years later, we know what USC has, and we need to see what someone else can do.
I used to love Carolina basketball. I used to be a big Frank Martin supporter.
I've watched portions of maybe 3 games this year. I've gotten to the point of just not caring. You know what you get with a FM Carolina team - solid defense for the most part, a bunch of fouls, bad shooting. Win a couple that you shouldn't to get hope of the tournament, but have several bad losses that keep you out.
When the fan base is to the point of apathy like I am, there's really big problems.
I've watched portions of maybe 3 games this year. I've gotten to the point of just not caring. You know what you get with a FM Carolina team - solid defense for the most part, a bunch of fouls, bad shooting. Win a couple that you shouldn't to get hope of the tournament, but have several bad losses that keep you out.
When the fan base is to the point of apathy like I am, there's really big problems.
They are, Past teams did not like Green Beans, This team HOWEVER!!!!
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He's doing well. Let us not forget the Dumpster Fire he took over after the previous coaching staff, who by the way purposely sabotaged our program on his way out the door. To dig us out of that mess and be able to recruit to the level he has was/is anything less than amazing. Man, we were the laughing stock of college basketball with a empty Coliseum and losing seasons. Frank Martin is a good coach. We will be just fine with him.
Are your posts serious or just playing devils advocate?
If serious, Darrin Horn's tenure here is completely irrelevant to Frank Martin after being coach for a decade. Frank's done some good things here, but not near enough good things. I don't see how we continue with him as coach after this season unless he makes the tournament. One for ten is pretty bad, even though the one was incredible. Also Frank's recruiting isn't good and never has been.
Yes, you have no idea what damage Darrin Horn did to the credibility of our Men's basketball program. The way he ran off tremendous talented player (Mike Holmes) that did not buy into his awful game strategies and game management. The way he advised other players on the roster to leave prior to his dismissal. Yeah, I am very serious. I often wonder just what many of you poster are thinking. We were in a bad way with multiple High school coaches and AAU coaches due to Darrin Horn's actions. Our current head coach has made strides in changing the mindset of our Men's BB program. Frank Martin is a damn good coach and tremendous ambassador of our University.
I appreciate everything Frank's done for USC. The final four run was amazing. However, after 10 years, nothing has changed. The last few seasons have regressed. Frank didn't build on the final four run, and now it's a rapidly receding memory overwhelmed by mediocre basketball. Clearly Darrin Horn didn't hurt Frank in 2017, so I'm not sure why Darrin Horn is relevant in 2022. Remember, Darrin Horn was fired in 2012.
The man needs more time to build up his pension credits - he's been working on this since the day he took the job.
I'm beginning to think he's just toying with us....... trolling if you will.
This program is among the worst coached in college basketball and has been for a few years now. Forget any concerns about recruiting and player development, those are secondary to this staff’s complete inability to get this team to play coherent basketball game in and game out. They are among the worst teams when it comes to turning the ball over and fouling. They give away possessions and give the other team free throws at an alarming rate. This isn’t down to talent, it’s down to being completely confused by the system, or lack thereof, and being completely undisciplined as individuals and a team.
College basketball isn’t all that complicated, and you don’t need world beaters to get decent shots. You just need a basic scheme that guys can run, with a few wrinkles as the game goes on. It’s the same thing on the defensive end. If guys miss good shots, they miss shots. If guys get beat, they get beat and give up a basket. But turnovers, terrible shot selection, and fouling it’s just a continuous sign this staff can’t figure it out and, frankly, might not even being trying all that hard.
Nope, I don't tow the line. Not trolling just offering a different opinion. I have yet to offend anyone.
I have always been of the opinion that our Final Four run was a combination of 2-3 circumstances going our way and said very little about FM as a coach. Horn was a bad steward of our program, but he worked Thornwell for at least two years. Was always in the gyms in the York, Chester, and Lancaster county area working that guy. When UNC didn't offer, we were the program he was coming to. Second, Thornwell did not develop into a potential pro prospect as quickly as expected and it allowed him to stick around and slowly become better as a player and as a leader. Third, Dozier sniffed around at UNC and Louisville. However, I was at USC when the Doziers played and always felt PJ was coming here. You have the makings of a team when you combine that with a tough role player like Notice, an athlete like Silva, and a hard working big man in Kotsar. We still struggled the score. We were even down at halftime to Marquette in the first round tournament game, but we had something that most elite college programs don't have now. Strong senior leadership that could actually play. After being denied the tournament the year before, I think that team was pretty much coaching itself by tournament time the following year. Coaches, especially on the college level, get the credit, but many times teams that go on a run have player leadership that run the team.
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Come on man. Horn was bad. We all know that. However, he was not that bad as a recruiter. Probably a little better than Martin, in fact, especially in the local area. If Martin has stabilized us so much, why do all the local products that could make a difference find there way somewhere else? I get it that some of you guy appreciate Martin's cheap Bobby Knight imitation. However, I think most know by now that it is a problem and we need to go in a different direction. I understand holding players accountable. However, basketball is a game of mistakes. You don't need the players looking over at the sideline for their regularly scheduled chewing out or being subbed out for making one mistake. This team has no confidence and no rhythm, two things that are of ultimate importance in basketball.
I totally agree with this. The best example of this is his own son who is on the court for defense but has absolutely no offensive skills whatsoever. His shooting and court awareness on offense is really non-existent.
The commitment to aggressive defense has certainly come at the expense of offensive output to the extent that I don’t even know if shooting practice is a priority much less offensive scheming and strategy.
Not advocating either way but some people seem to be under the impression that we have been some kind of power house program that Martin has brought down. While he may well have hit his ceiling here his ceiling has been a lot better than what we’ve seen in program history. He is likely to come out of this season second only to McGuire in terms of wins. In terms of coaches who have been here 5 plus season his winning percentage is only behind McGuire, Felton and Odom but other than McGuire there really isn’t much difference there.
In terms of fan base I think this is another romanticized experience. I remember when Odom was having his runs and winning the NIT we got lower level tickets just walking up a half hour before tip off. Even during the FF run we were getting free tickets from Bi-Lo constantly. Even when we are having success we aren’t a basketball school that leads up the arena.
In terms of fan base I think this is another romanticized experience. I remember when Odom was having his runs and winning the NIT we got lower level tickets just walking up a half hour before tip off. Even during the FF run we were getting free tickets from Bi-Lo constantly. Even when we are having success we aren’t a basketball school that leads up the arena.
Defense at the expense of offense can work (Virginia), but only if you have elite defense (Virginia).
I think he expected some of these transfers to come in a contribute immediately on offense, but they stayed true to their career shooting percentages.
This season is morphing into his farewell tour. 10 years is plenty. Thankful for the Final Four run, but the product is typically unwatchable and his on-court attitude remains atrocious. If we're going to regularly finish outside of tournament play, might as well aim for a more enjoyable regular season for fans to attend.
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