Leach already in hot water at Mississippi State

[JDishnell]

Well, call it lukewarm water. It sure didn't take long. For the record, I thought his tweet was funny and abundantly clear to anyone with a brain that is in jest. People just can't take a joke of any kind these days.

Now he's having to take part in listening sessions and guided museum visits. They are going to squash everything that makes Mike Leach be Mike Leach. In the process, probably his on-field results will suffer.

Funny that he could last as long as he did in the northwest. A few months in the south and he's already having to apologize and have listening sessions.

https://www.espn.com/college-footba...ultural-awareness-mississippi-following-tweet

 

[paladin181]

People need to stop being offended about everything. Nooses were used to hang criminals LONG before retards decided to hang people for being the wrong color. FFS EVERYTHING can have a negative connotation. The tweet was funny. Not hilarious, but got a chuckle. People need to lighten up.

 

[Johnnie Cockran]

If Miss State doesn’t want him, we’ll take him! We put up with Frank Martin, and he doesn’t even make the dance. If Mike Leach can frequently win 8 games, he can do and say whatever the hell he wants.

 

[NaturalGC7]

Mike being Mike. Nothing to see here but his humor and excellent coaching ability.

 

[AsTheCockCrows]

What a bunch of little whiny-arse babies. We have a country full of people who just look constantly for something to get offended by. Were I the president of MissSt., I would tell the players that were offended to find somewhere else to go to school, and that they should also consider another sport...something like womens' rowing.

 

[Rollerdude123]

Yeah, imagine being upset that a white millionaire coach posted a drawing of something that historically has specifically been used for racial intimidation (and worse) of black people in the American South, especially Mississippi with its troubled history of racial issues, murders, lynchings.

the nerve of those people being offended by such an innocent thing

I’m not saying fire him but it was an ignorant, insensitive thing to do.

No matter the context, for many Americans the image of a noose is never appropriate and that’s particularly true in the South and in Mississippi.

“A friend, an African-American man old enough to remember life in the segregated South, once told me of the connotation a noose has for him: “I see that and I hear, ‘This is what we’re going to do to you.’ ”

I wonder if folks just don’t ever consider how someone else might feel about such a polarizing symbol, a symbol that might have been used to illegally murder someone in their family tree. You have to be some special dumb to post something like that.

heck, half the people on this forum whine and complain when their Clemson neighbor flies a Clemson flag on their car in the summer but call people who are offended by a symbol with clear negative racial connotations as too sensitive.

 

[Gamecockben1979]

I like Leach and follow him on twitter. I find most of his memes funny. I doubt he meant to offend but it shouldn’t have been posted.

Those who don’t understand likely haven’t seen their grandfather or great grandfather swinging from a tree. Might change your perspective on the humor of it.

 

[AsTheCockCrows]

Yeah, imagine being upset that a white millionaire coach posted a drawing of something that historically has specifically been used for racial intimidation (and worse) of black people in the American South, especially Mississippi with its troubled history of racial issues, murders, lynchings.

the nerve of those people being offended by such an innocent thing

I’m not saying fire him but it was an ignorant, insensitive thing to do.

No matter the context, for many Americans the image of a noose is never appropriate and that’s particularly true in the South and in Mississippi.

“A friend, an African-American man old enough to remember life in the segregated South, once told me of the connotation a noose has for him: “I see that and I hear, ‘This is what we’re going to do to you.’ ”

I wonder if folks just don’t ever consider how someone else might feel about such a polarizing symbol, a symbol that might have been used to illegally murder someone in their family tree. You have to be some special dumb to post something like that.

heck, half the people on this forum whine and complain when their Clemson neighbor flies a Clemson flag on their car in the summer

Oh please. Its the same post that has been going around on Facebook. It doesnt have ANY racial overtone to it. I am married to a dark skinned black woman so I know racial crap when I see it and I have no tolerance for it. There was NOTHING racial about it.
Quit being a friggin baby. Quit looking for a reason to be offended. God, people just annoy me with that crap. More and more, people make me prefer dogs more.

 

[Rollerdude123]

Oh please. Its the same post that has been going around on Facebook. It doesnt have ANY racial overtone to it. I am married to a dark skinned black woman so I know racial crap when I see it and I have no tolerance for it. There was NOTHING racial about it.
Quit being a friggin baby. Quit looking for a reason to be offended. God, people just annoy me with that crap. More and more, people make me prefer dogs more.

Passing around a Facebook meme because it’s going around is dumb on its face, especially when it includes a picture of a noose.

I now know you are married but that has zero to do with the issue.

I don’t think anyone has said he meant it in a racial way. I doubt he did. What people have said Was that it was ignorant and correction should be made. His boss agreed.

 

[TheReelEss]

He didn't change. People just got hypersensitive. Everyone's always looking for the next offense. That's my take. Don't agree? I don't care.

 

[AsTheCockCrows]

Passing around a Facebook meme because it’s going around is dumb on its face, especially when it includes a picture of a noose.

I now know you are married but that has zero to do with the issue.

I don’t think anyone has said he meant it in a racial way. I doubt he did. What people have said Was that it was ignorant and correction should be made. His boss agreed.

No, my marriage has EVERYTHING to do with it actually. I deal with looks from redneck, racists idiots all the time. I have to censor myself at times so I dont stick my foot in my own mouth. I KNOW racism. I have been dealing with it now for 25 years. These days, they dont burn a cross in your front yard. They just ignore you. Smile in your face and tell their kids they are never allowed to hang out with my kids. However, I refuse to bow down to the ultra senthseitive - and I did say "senthsetive" - types. People who have no sense of humor and who are constantly just looking for a reason to be offended. EVERYTHING is racist to them. I cannot tolerate the little snowflakes.

 

[JDishnell]

The problem is, if you start putting a muzzle on someone like Leach, you run the risk of squashing his personality and that could lead to impacting his on-field performance. You've just got to let him be himself and accept that one or two people might get offended every once in a while.

Had it not been for the fuss made over the tweet, lynchings would not have even entered my thinking. I can't see how it would.

 

[OldWiseCock]

Hard to know about this one since the tweet was deleted. But I'd say it showed poor judgment. By that I mean a "noose" is a metaphor for lynching. He should have known that and obviously realized it later. When you consider the context, I am 100% certain he did not mean it that way.

It won't affect his coaching.

 

[uscg1984]

I don’t think anyone has said he meant it in a racial way. I doubt he did. What people have said Was that it was ignorant and correction should be made. His boss agreed.

That's exactly what makes it stupid. Nobody questions that the tweet had nothing to do with race. Nobody questions his intentions. Instead of Leach being subjected to sensitivity training, maybe those who are deeply offended should be trained that symbols can have multiple meanings and context means everything.

My guess is there are people at Mississippi State who don't like the fact that Leach was hired in the first place, so they are using this as a way to attack him.

 

[JDishnell]

Hard to know about this one since the tweet was deleted. But I'd say it showed poor judgment. By that I mean a "noose" is a metaphor for lynching. He should have known that and obviously realized it later. When you consider the context, I am 100% certain he did not mean it that way.

It won't affect his coaching.

lol, no, a noose is absolutely not a metaphor for lynching. a noose is not a metaphor for anything. a metaphor is a figure of speech. you probably meant to say that a noose is symbol of lynchings, but even that would be incorrect. i can assure you, when i saw the tweet, lynching never even occurred to me.

 

[Johnnie Cockran]

I like Leach and follow him on twitter. I find most of his memes funny. I doubt he meant to offend but it shouldn’t have been posted.

Those who don’t understand likely haven’t seen their grandfather or great grandfather swinging from a tree. Might change your perspective on the humor of it.

Maybe I’m just ignorant, but what are the odds that anyone alive has seen their grandfather or great grandfather swinging from a tree? I know our country has some horrible skeletons in the closet, but we are in the year 2020.

 

[Rollerdude123]

That's exactly what makes it stupid. Nobody questions that the tweet had nothing to do with race. Nobody questions his intentions. Instead of Leach being subjected to sensitivity training, maybe those who are deeply offended should be trained that symbols can have multiple meanings and context means everything.

My guess is there are people at Mississippi State who don't like the fact that Leach was hired in the first place, so they are using this as a way to attack him.

We profoundly disagree, again.

 

[Rollerdude123]

No, my marriage has EVERYTHING to do with it actually. I deal with looks from redneck, racists idiots all the time. I have to censor myself at times so I dont stick my foot in my own mouth. I KNOW racism. I have been dealing with it now for 25 years. These days, they dont burn a cross in your front yard. They just ignore you. Smile in your face and tell their kids they are never allowed to hang out with my kids. However, I refuse to bow down to the ultra senthseitive - and I did say "senthsetive" - types. People who have no sense of humor and who are constantly just looking for a reason to be offended. EVERYTHING is racist to them. I cannot tolerate the little snowflakes.

There is no doubt that racism has a different look today.

but a coach posting a noose is STUPID. It’s a racially insensitive thing to do anywhere, including Mississippi.

In addition, we don’t get to tell other people how they should see things they find are insensitive or racial. His boss agreed it was inappropriate.

obviously this was a real problem for some, Including some that are transferring.

we can’t walk on eggshells but we also can’t walk around doing things that would obviously be insensitive to other people. Well, I guess we do get to do it but there is a price to pay and they don’t have to agree.

It’s definitely not professional

This Is not MIke leach, regular guy. This is Mike Leach, employee of a public university.

 

[Gamecockben1979]

Maybe I’m just ignorant, but what are the odds that anyone alive has seen their grandfather or great grandfather swinging from a tree? I know our country has some horrible skeletons in the closet, but we are in the year 2020.

Well let’s say you’re 75 years old. That means you were born in 1945. So it’s possible for the first 20 years of your life you saw family members, friends, or other people of your race executed in public. Even if you’re 65 you could’ve seen it during the first ten years of your life. So I would say safely that people 60 or older could vividly remember it.

Regardless why would you not to just want to be a better person? Even if all of the people who had a parent or grandparent executed left this Earth is this humor?

Im 40. My great grandfather lived until I was in middle school. I have no doubt there are people walking this Earth that still remember family members getting executed this way. It’s a sad chapter in American history we don’t need to relive or make light of.

 

[Rollerdude123]

Maybe I’m just ignorant, but what are the odds that anyone alive has seen their grandfather or great grandfather swinging from a tree? I know our country has some horrible skeletons in the closet, but we are in the year 2020.

Disagree. Heck, civil rights workers were murdered in the 1960s for the sin of trying to help black people register for their right to vote. Maybe not a noose, but it’s not like noose%’s hanging in trees was not unusual for people in their 70s to see in the south on occasion.

 

[TheReelEss]

Maybe I’m just ignorant, but what are the odds that anyone alive has seen their grandfather or great grandfather swinging from a tree? I know our country has some horrible skeletons in the closet, but we are in the year 2020.

Odds are far, far greater they know someone or of someone who has committed suicide by asphyxiating themselves with a rope more so than by being murdered with one.

Once one acquires the victim mentality they'll never find a shortage of oppressors.

 

[Crutcher1]

No, my marriage has EVERYTHING to do with it actually. I deal with looks from redneck, racists idiots all the time. I have to censor myself at times so I dont stick my foot in my own mouth. I KNOW racism. I have been dealing with it now for 25 years. These days, they dont burn a cross in your front yard. They just ignore you. Smile in your face and tell their kids they are never allowed to hang out with my kids. However, I refuse to bow down to the ultra senthseitive - and I did say "senthsetive" - types. People who have no sense of humor and who are constantly just looking for a reason to be offended. EVERYTHING is racist to them. I cannot tolerate the little snowflakes.

"Snowflake". Anyone that calls another person a snowflake is a snowflake. Offended because someone has a differing opinion, as in "Oh my gosh. Look at all those left coast snowflakes wanting to limit the number of fans at sporting events".

 

[JDishnell]

Well let’s say you’re 75 years old. That means you were born in 1945. So it’s possible for the first 20 years of your life you saw family members, friends, or other people of your race executed in public. Even if you’re 65 you could’ve seen it during the first ten years of your life. So I would say safely that people 60 or older could vividly remember it.

Regardless why would you not to just want to be a better person? Even if all of the people who had a parent or grandparent executed left this Earth is this humor?

Im 40. My great grandfather lived until I was in middle school. I have no doubt there are people walking this Earth that still remember family members getting executed this way. It’s a sad chapter in American history we don’t need to relive or make light of.

Actually, lynchings had pretty well petered out by the late 1940s, as you can see from this database on the University of Missouri-Kansas City School of Law website:

https://famous-trials.com/sheriffshipp/1084-lynchingsyear

To be clear: 1 lynching is horrific and far too many. But to paint it as commonplace in the mid-40s and following as you are saying is not accurate. Nationwide, in 1946 there were 6 total lynchings. From that point on, the most in any year was 3 (twice). Most years after that had zero.

Nobody offended by this tweet has any direct or indirect knowledge of lynchings.

 

[Gamecockben1979]

Actually, lynchings had pretty well petered out by the late 1940s, as you can see from this database on the University of Missouri-Kansas City School of Law website:

https://famous-trials.com/sheriffshipp/1084-lynchingsyear

To be clear: 1 lynching is horrific and far too many. But to paint it as commonplace in the mid-40s and following as you are saying is not accurate. Nationwide, in 1946 there were 6 total lynchings. From that point on, the most in any year was 3 (twice). Most years after that had zero.

Nobody offended by this tweet has any direct or indirect knowledge of lynchings.

Statistics are like bikinis. They tell you something but not everything. Given the criteria, some murders were in fact lynchings but not reported as such.


Tuskegee Institute, now Tuskegee University, defined conditions that constituted a recognized lynching, a definition which became generally accepted by other compilers of the era:

There must be legal evidence that a person was killed. That person must have met death illegally. A group of three or more personsmust have participated in the killing. The group must have acted under the pretext of service to Justice, Race, or Tradition

 

[ansoncock]

I like Leach and follow him on twitter. I find most of his memes funny. I doubt he meant to offend but it shouldn’t have been posted.

Those who don’t understand likely haven’t seen their grandfather or great grandfather swinging from a tree. Might change your perspective on the humor of it.

How many people ALIVE have seen their father or great grandfather hanging from a tree. One is too many, but If you can find ONE, I will buy you dinner.

 

[Rollerdude123]

The year 1952 was the first since people began keeping track that there were no recorded lynchings.

Because of the nature of lynchings – summary executions that occurred outside the constraints of court documentation – there was no formal, centralized tracking of the phenomenon. Most historians believe this has left the true number of lynchings dramatically underreported.

For decades, the most comprehensive total belonged to the archives at the Tuskegee Institute, which tabulated 4,743 people who died at the hands of US lynch mobs between 1881 and 1968. According to the Tuskegee numbers, 3,446 (nearly three-quarters) of those lynched were black Americans.

Where did most lynchings take place?
Unsurprisingly, lynching was most concentrated in the former Confederate states, and especially in those with large black populations.

According to EJI’s data, Mississippi, Florida, Arkansas and Louisiana had the highest statewide rates of lynching in the United States. Mississippi, Georgia and Louisiana had the highest number of lynchings.

Who attended lynchings?
Among the most unsettling realities of lynching is the degree to which white Americans embraced it, not as an uncomfortable necessity or a way of maintaining order, but as a joyous moment of wholesome celebration.

“Whole families came together, mothers and fathers, bringing even their youngest children. It was the show of the countryside – a very popular show,” read a 1930 editorial in the Raleigh News and Observer. “Men joked loudly at the sight of the bleeding body … girls giggled as the flies fed on the blood that dripped from the Negro’s nose.”

Adding to the macabre nature of the scene, lynching victims were typically dismembered into pieces of human trophy for mob members.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/apr/26/lynchings-memorial-us-south-montgomery-alabama

 

[Gamecockben1979]

How many people ALIVE have seen their father or great grandfather hanging from a tree. One is too many, but If you can find ONE, I will buy you dinner.

I would like a large T Bone steak, baked potato and some cherry coke. I don’t need your dinner, but I do hope you’ll read the article, watch the video and realize that 2020 is still not the right time to joke about a lynching. That would be more important to me than a meal.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.montgomeryadvertiser.com/amp/524675002

 

[uscg1984]

We profoundly disagree, again.

Which part? That Leach probably isn't a racist? That symbols have multiple meanings? That context is important? Or that there are probably folks around the Mississippi State program that don't like the hire and are using this situation?

 

[adcoop]

The demographic and opinions of this board don't quite match up with the demographics of football players and their parents in the south. Mike Leach does not have the track record of winning for something like this to be ignored. Dabo might could survive it. Maybe Saban. However, I think those coaches are in tune enough to not pull a stunt like that. A noose is just something you don't play with in the South. As a Black father, I would immediately scratch Mike Leach off the list of coaches my son could play for. Just don't see Mike Leach as having the track record of getting players in the league for me to just blow that off. Not trying to argue with you guys.. Just giving you an outlook of how a concerned black father would look at it.

 

[JDishnell]

Statistics are like bikinis. They tell you something but not everything. Given the criteria, some murders were in fact lynchings but not reported as such.


Tuskegee Institute, now Tuskegee University, defined conditions that constituted a recognized lynching, a definition which became generally accepted by other compilers of the era:

There must be legal evidence that a person was killed. That person must have met death illegally. A group of three or more personsmust have participated in the killing. The group must have acted under the pretext of service to Justice, Race, or Tradition

nah

 

[uscg1984]

I would like a large T Bone steak, baked potato and some cherry coke. I don’t need your dinner, but I do hope you’ll read the article, watch the video and realize that 2020 is still not the right time to joke about a lynching. That would be more important to me than a meal.

Come on, Ben, Leach didn't joke about lynching! Nobody would argue that it's OK to joke about lynching and, frankly, it's dishonest of you to suggest we are. That's the kind of hyperbole that shuts down any reasonable discussions about what is "racially insensitive." We're talking about a cartoon of an old woman sewing a "scarf" for her husband that looks like a noose because they've been cooped up together for too long.

 

[Gamecockben1979]

nah

Whatever you say. And I guess you think the article posted above was just a bad dream. Who cares how frequently it was reported. It happened. And to joke about it is being an insensitive ——-.

 

[JDishnell]

Whatever you say. And I guess you think the article posted above was just a bad dream. Who cares how frequently it was reported. It happened. And to joke about it is being an insensitive ——-.

The burden of proof is on you to show that Leach was joking about lynching.

 

[Gamecockben1979]

Come on, Ben, Leach didn't joke about lynching! Nobody would argue that it's OK to joke about lynching and, frankly, it's dishonest of you to suggest we are. That's the kind of hyperbole that shuts down any reasonable discussions about what is "racially insensitive." We're talking about a cartoon of an old woman sewing a "scarf" for her husband that looks like a noose because they've been cooped up together for too long.

Sure it was a scarf. A scarf shaped like a noose.

 

[Gamecockben1979]

The burden of proof is on you to show that Leach was joking about lynching.

No it’s not. This isn’t court. Leach apologized.

 

[adcoop]

How many people ALIVE have seen their father or great grandfather hanging from a tree. One is too many, but If you can find ONE, I will buy you dinner.

I think you might have to buy the man dinner. I am 53. Went to school in the first year of integration. A high school classmate of mine was lynched for dating a white girl. People just don't understand that there'was still remnants of this going on into the 70's and early 80's. Not that long ago.

 

[JDishnell]

No it’s not. This isn’t court. Leach apologized.

apologies are not admissions of guilt.

 

[Gamecockben1979]

apologies are not admissions of guilt.

Have you ever apologized for something you weren’t guilty of?

 

[Rollerdude123]

Which part? That Leach probably isn't a racist? That symbols have multiple meanings? That context is important? Or that there are probably folks around the Mississippi State program that don't like the hire and are using this situation?

”Instead of Leach being subjected to sensitivity training, maybe those who are deeply offended should be trained that symbols can have multiple meanings and context means everything. “


I can see that now: Some white guy in front of an African American church audience “teaching them” how nooses can have different meanings and they need to just “understand that” because a lot of white folks got upset that Mike Leach’s boss reprimanded him.

that sound like a heck of a plan.....

 

[uscg1984]

The demographic and opinions of this board don't quite match up with the demographics of football players and their parents in the south. Mike Leach does not have the track record of winning for something like this to be ignored. Dabo might could survive it. Maybe Saban. However, I think those coaches are in tune enough to not pull a stunt like that. A noose is just something you don't play with in the South. As a Black father, I would immediately scratch Mike Leach off the list of coaches my son could play for. Just don't see Mike Leach as having the track record of getting players in the league for me to just blow that off. Not trying to argue with you guys.. Just giving you an outlook of how a concerned black father would look at it.

I appreciate your perspective. Did this incident change your opinion of Leach or did it just reinforce your opinions about him (as to whether you'd let your son play for him)? And it sounds like you are saying if Leach did have Saban's or Swinney's track record you'd overlook your misgivings?