Mack Brown...
- Thread starter HI Cock
- Start date
Does it really mean anything that he skipped his senior year, after spending two years in eighth grade? It was still 12 years of grade school.
No doubt he'll get them back to at least a top 25 program. The division they're in and he kills it in recruiting especially in North Carolina and Virginia. He's an old dude but can recruit like crazy. They need to take a big step up for just the sake of giving Clemson a harder road than the treasure trail they hike on every year in the ACC.
If you’re referring to MB making them relevant again, I agree. That was the laziest coaching “search” I’ve ever seen.
Depends on what one means by relevant. Will Mack improve the program at UNC? Without a doubt. For two reasons. He put together a good staff, and most importantly the man can recruit. I see him getting UNC back to a consistent top 20 type program, but don't see him elevating UNC to the level where he can threaten Clemson.
Clemson needs a threat to beat them each year, kinda like FSU back in the 90's. UNC became that under MB, hopefully he can do it again. It will take a couple years of recruiting to become relevant again but he's off to a good start. Getting looks from many of the 4* guys now that in the last few years did not even consider UNC.
Check out the link to Tim Cross in his first meeting with the team, dude makes me want to go play for him. Hopefully he can bring some excitement back. He comes up at about the 3 minute mark.
No, he cannot. And our coaches haven't a clue on how to get our team ready for big games.
And that’s something coming from us. We know about LAZY coach searches
I agree. Coach speak wins nothing. We have had the best off seasons every year
But wasn't it NC State and the "Chest" that beat FSU the most? Don't recall UNC ever beating Bowden while he had his run in the 90s.
I was thinking the same thing. Always build up with UNC being decent but I don’t think Brown ever beat them. UVA was the first ACC team to beat them and I believe, as you stated, NC State had the most success the rest of the 90’s. Not that any team had much real success at all.
The only ACc program capable of getting to Clemson’s level is FSU and they have a long way to go.
Mack took a while to make UNC competitive the first time around. I think his rep will help some as opposed to back then, but it might be a tougher job now than back then too.
When he was in Chapel Hill the first time he closed the borders in NC relative to recruiting. Well, him and Sheridan at NC State.
If he builds a consistent, top 20 type program, he will surpass us.
Birdie and Carolina4 you are correct, UNC could never get over the hump with FSU. They did put the smack on Clemson a couple times though. 45-0 in 96, then beat them at Clemson the following year if I remember correctly. Should have beat them a few years ago as well.
He's almost 68 years old. Not many guys that age can successfully build a program from scratch. (and UNC is about as low as it can get)
He's probably got 4 or maybe 5 good years at best. At worst he's got 2 years in him. I think they will improve but they won't pass us.
Mack Brown was head coach at UNC in the ACC from 1988 through 1997. Florida State joined the ACC in 1992, and a Mack Brown-coached UNC played against them every year for 6 years, compiling a 0-6 record against them, and were out-scored 161-53, for a per-game average of 26.8 - 8.8.
During Brown's time at UNC, they also played Clemson 10 times, compiling a 3-7 record against them that started 0-5. The final years at UNC were during the Tommy West Regime at Clemson, widely considered to be one of the worst head coaches in the history of Clemson's FB program. In 1998 - the year after Brown had left for Texas - UNC beat Clemson again for the 3rd consecutive year. That was West's final year and he was fired after leading the Tigers to a 3-8 record in 1998. The Tarheels were led by Carl Torbush who would go on to have a losing career record while HC at UNC....
I agree with this. As much as it pains me, I think Clemson is in an even better position now than FSU was in the 90s. Bowden's Seminoles ran rough-shod through the ACC back then, but knew they had to play two perennial powers each year in Spurrier's Gators and Erickson's Hurricanes.
Clemson might lose an occasional game here and there in the current ACC, but I don't see anybody knocking them off the throne in that conference until either Dabo leaves or FSU returns from their long dormancy.
I would not be surprised if Mack Brown does at UNC what Lou Holtz did for us. It probably won't happen this year, but it would not surprise me if he made them relevant again within a couple of years. He'll create some initial excitement around the program that will reap some benefits on the recruiting trail. I could see UNC winning 9 or even 10 games with an ACC schedule within a couple of years, getting slaughtered by Clemson or other elite teams along the way. It will eventually become obvious that's as far as Brown can take them and the wins will drop down to 7 or 8 wins as the recruiting falls off. But that will be enough to make them relevant and make the position more attractive for the next young up and coming coach to replace Brown after 5 or 6 years.
My skepticism regarding Brown is his age, and his ability to fully commit to rebuilding the Tarheel program from where it is now.
Texas as a state is perennially regarded as one of the top 3 states in the nation at producing top division I caliber prep FB talent every year. And under Brown they had one #1 recruiting class, seven top 5 classes, and eight top 10 classes out of his 11 years as HC. This is a program that is heads and shoulders above all other Texas college programs - sons born in Texas are always wrapped in Texas Longhorns swaddling clothes. They always grow up wanting to play for the Longhorns..
And he's led Texas to only 2 conference titles and 1 national title in 11 yrs.. He led UNC to 0 ACC conference titles in 10 years - UNC isn't in quite the football-crazed state that UT is, but they are still NC's state flagship school.
And that was when he was young and working to prove himself. Now he's another Lou Holtz, Steve Spurrier type who wants to put on some shine on his resume (although Spurrier did have something to prove after his failed stint in the NFL)...
Texas as a state is perennially regarded as one of the top 3 states in the nation at producing top division I caliber prep FB talent every year. And under Brown they had one #1 recruiting class, seven top 5 classes, and eight top 10 classes out of his 11 years as HC. This is a program that is heads and shoulders above all other Texas college programs - sons born in Texas are always wrapped in Texas Longhorns swaddling clothes. They always grow up wanting to play for the Longhorns..
And he's led Texas to only 2 conference titles and 1 national title in 11 yrs.. He led UNC to 0 ACC conference titles in 10 years - UNC isn't in quite the football-crazed state that UT is, but they are still NC's state flagship school.
And that was when he was young and working to prove himself. Now he's another Lou Holtz, Steve Spurrier type who wants to put on some shine on his resume (although Spurrier did have something to prove after his failed stint in the NFL)...
Ours was more botched than lazy. Tanner at least reached out to/interviewed other candidates. I don’t recall UNCarolina doing any of that.
he was hired for one thing, stability........if he wins its a bonus!
Trust me that was a different Clemson team. Today’s Clemson just beat the livin hell out of Bama.
That is all correct Conway, heels may have not won any of those late 90's games but at least the excitement was in the air and they thought they could. I think the last game as a 20-3 loss, FSU D was just tooo much for the heels to score but there was enough excitement in the air to fill the stadium for all home games back then.
I remember that ‘96 game. Was the opener. I miss the day when Clemson would lose their opener 45-0!!!
That 2001 game at Clemson on Homecoming was a special one too. Remember Julius Peppers showing out in that one. Was an absolute beatdown.
While a lot of that is true, while at North Carolina before that was the heyday of Bowden's great FSU teams in the ACC, so it was hard to beat that. At Texas he had final finishes in the AP of 1, 2, 4, 5, 5, 6, 10, 12, 12, 13, and 15. How would you feel about even a 12 finish for the season at SC? At Texas he had an National Championship, lost another NC game and had wins in the Rose (2), Cotton (2), Fiesta (1), Holiday (3) and Alamo (2) bowls.
While he may be old, he knows how to hire good young recruiters. I think he will do well at North Carolina, but not that well. Just some 9 win seasons with top 15 recruiting classes.
You said that "a lot of that is true", but then posted as if you didn't even read my post. If anything, you support what I already posted in my post. But you ask how would I feel about even a 12 finish for the season at USC?
Well, give us a state that we dominate as the flagship major college program, load our state up with nationally-leading elite prep FB talent every recruiting cycle, that grows up wanting to come play for South Carolina more than any other in-state (or out-of-state) program, so that we bring in top 5 nationally ranked classes more than half the time, and then if the best we can do is finish 12, 12, 13, and 15, I guess we'll force our head coach out of the job, just like Texas did with Brown.
But the question is, does that support your position more, or does it support mine?
Brown was hired just as much to stabilize the football program at UNC as anything else. UNC made the mistake of handing the program Mack left in place to Torbush years ago. Program fell and has never been as good through the Bunting, and then the Fedora, eras. Although Fedora had a decent team when he first got there. But interest in his struggling program had wanted and they were often playing in a half empty stadium. Brown was hired as much to generate excitement and out some butts back in the seats as anything. And at the end of the day, being an elite program at UNC is not as important as it is other places. As long as basketball is going well, they are more than satisfied to be an 8-4 type program. Mack will be there about 4-5 years then hand it to someone else. But UNC should look to what happened to USC when Spurrier knew it was time to go. Instead of looking for the next coach, Tanner talked Spurrier into staying. Spurrier was done and he knew it. That led to the mess that was left upon his finally leaving.
Be wary of Brown. I once had a college coach tell me he could recruit the balls off of a pool table. His age and basketball will be a factor but it won't be as easy as it was under Fedora. UNC has proven historically to never let football get too big. They have however proven that they will do anything to win. For a school that touts it's academics to have fake classes for athletes says it all.
Yes, IMO. I believe he will reach SCarolina's level of relevancy within 1-2 years. There's little-to-no gap right now. If the Heels beat the Cocks this year, the question will be answered immediately. This is just my opinion and I am aware I might be wrong.
One reason he left NC to go to Texas was the AD told him the football coach at NC could never have a higher salary than the BB coach. They basically said football is 2nd place here at North Carolina, and always will be no matter how much success you have.
I'm not exactly sure what everyone is arguing about. Is Brown going to win an ACC championship or national championship at UNC? No. UNC is not going to dethrone Clemson as the 800lb gorilla in the ACC. I think we're virtually all in agreement on that. Is he well past his prime and not likely to stay around at UNC more than 5 or 6 years? Probably. I don't think there's much disagreement about that. Is he a good enough coach to build UNC into an 8 or 9 win team in the ACC and make them relevant in that conference? Given the current state of the competition in the ACC, is there any serious disagreement that he could certainly do that? Generate a little success on the recruiting trail, generate some excitement among the fanbase so you can fill up your 60,000 seat stadium, and pretty soon, you have a program capable of beating 2/3 of the conference.
One thing we do know: like Holtz and Spurrier at USC, if Brown can generate some moderate success at UNC, that program will become an immediate media darling. They'll probably get as much media exposure as an 8-win team that other 10-win teams get. That could prove problematic for a Gamecock program struggling to find its footing. It's VERY important that we not give Brown a win over the local SEC team in his first game back.
One thing we do know: like Holtz and Spurrier at USC, if Brown can generate some moderate success at UNC, that program will become an immediate media darling. They'll probably get as much media exposure as an 8-win team that other 10-win teams get. That could prove problematic for a Gamecock program struggling to find its footing. It's VERY important that we not give Brown a win over the local SEC team in his first game back.
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