Mark Kingsux

[PaleoCock]

In Tanner's 6th year, we were national runner-ups.

Through 6 years Tanner had won 274 games and had finished 1st in the SEC East 2 times. He had won 110 games in the SEC.

Through 6 years, Kingston won 180 games. (He had the shortened COVID year, but wasn't going to win 94 games that year) with 70 SEC wins. (With a great SEC season during the COVId year, he'd have 87-88 SEC wins in the same time period Tanner had 110.

Under Tanner through 6 years, while the fans would complain, we were a feared baseball program in the SEC. Teams knew that beating South Carolina in baseball meant something.

Coach Kingston has to offer so many excuses, even Will Muschamp blushes. There is no program in the SEC that worries about South Carolina baseball anymore.

I know what you are saying, but Kingston couldn't hold Ray Tanner's dirty shoes.

We've been to 2 Super Regionals in five seasons. Same as under Tanner.

No one is arguing he has been as good overall as Tanner in regular season SEC play. The point is that he had a very good year last season. This season has been up and down so far.

Do you believe he should be fired today or is it just a sport to make fun of the team after each loss? Do you not believe Ray Tanner has the ability to determine when the baseball staff needs a turnover?

 

[DeeDave]

We've been to 2 Super Regionals in five seasons. Same as under Tanner.

No one is arguing he has been as good overall as Tanner in regular season SEC play. The point is that he had a very good year last season. This season has been up and down so far.

Do you believe he should be fired today or is it just a sport to make fun of the team after each loss? Do you not believe Ray Tanner has the ability to determine when the baseball staff needs a turnover?

Yes, but in 2 of those 5 seasons under Tanner- we came in 1st in the SEC East and once we came in 2nd. We had 217 wins. Won 56 games one year, and won 49 the next.

We were clearly improving under Tanner- drastically- and fans felt it. South Carolina baseball was being talked about positively across the country and we were feared. That's not the case now.

and that was when Ray Tanner had a lousy facility to work with- one USC fans liked- but a lousy facility compared to most schools -especially for recruiting purposes.

That does not seem to be the case with Kingston. 42 wins is the most he's had at South Carolina. He's only had over 40 wins one time.

I think Tanner's sustained success over those 5 years means more than just saying we went to 2 Super Regionals under Tanner - and also under Kingston. In other words, I think any college baseball fan understands you can get hot at the end of the year and win a regional. But it's harder to win week in and week out (finishing 1st in your division) - and winning 45+ games multiple times.

I wouldn't fire Kingston today.

I'd say if we have a losing SEC record by the time the SEC tourney is here, I'd announce it's time for a change at South Carolina- and I probably do that if he doesn't finish above .500 in the conference.

Without that, I think it's time and he's been given enough chances to turn things around. 42 wins, then followed up with 35 wins should not cut it at South Carolina.

Even when we didn't end up in Omaha under Tanner, there was a feeling that South Carolina baseball was going to win and win big. That feeling is long gone.

 

[cockofdawn]

Damned I hate agreeing with DD, but Kingston gets this year, if he doesn’t make it to Omaha, which seems right now very very unlikely, he needs to GO!!

 

[Ward Jr]

Damned I hate agreeing with DD, but Kingston gets this year, if he doesn’t make it to Omaha, which seems right now very very unlikely, he needs to GO!!

I'm confused as to why everyone is so frustrated right now?

Kingston had a great season last year. As mentioned previously, we were in the Top Ten for most of the year and lost in the Supers to the CWS runner-up. No school in America would have considered firing him.

This year, we've been ranked the entire season. Over the last 3 weeks, we're 4-2 against the #3 in the country (Vandy & A&M) and we're 1-2 against #16 BAMA on the road.

Also, these linear comparisons of Tanner and Kingston are not valid unless you account for each team in the conference over the different eras.

The SEC today is much stronger top to bottom in baseball than they were when Tanner was coaching. Not only is this reflected in the numbers -- Tanner has stated this as well.

Over the past 10-15 years, all of the SEC schools went all in on the top sports as revenue exploded from endorsement deals, TV contracts, etc. The head-to-toe competition landscape is different and needs to be factored in.

 

[cockofdawn]

This year, we've been ranked the entire season.

Should not have been ranked, Why are we frustrated?? HMMM Lets see. They have won ONE only ONE series out of 4 SEC, Swept (so far) by the hated TATERS, Loses to 14-14 Ga Southern's mid week pitcher. Lost to BELMONT (WTH is Belmont) So i rest my case!!

 

[bucketdad]

I'm confused as to why everyone is so frustrated right now?

Kingston had a great season last year. As mentioned previously, we were in the Top Ten for most of the year and lost in the Supers to the CWS runner-up. No school in America would have considered firing him.

This year, we've been ranked the entire season. Over the last 3 weeks, we're 4-2 against the #3 in the country (Vandy & A&M) and we're 1-2 against #16 BAMA on the road.

Also, these linear comparisons of Tanner and Kingston are not valid unless you account for each team in the conference over the different eras.

The SEC today is much stronger top to bottom in baseball than they were when Tanner was coaching. Not only is this reflected in the numbers -- Tanner has stated this as well.

Over the past 10-15 years, all of the SEC schools went all in on the top sports as revenue exploded from endorsement deals, TV contracts, etc. The head-to-toe competition landscape is different and needs to be factored in.

For me it's the product on the field. Kingston's teams have been filled with guys that get worse as the season progresses... worse year after year. I can't name one guy that looked better for being here. We are not doing these guys any favors by keeping Kingston. I have a really hard time saying that doesn't matter if we win. I have a super hard time saying it doesn't matter if we are a consistent .500 program under him.

Do I expect him to be fired during the season? No. Do I believe it would be a good thing for the program and the players if he were? Yes

 

[cockofdawn]

For me it's the product on the field. Kingston's teams have been filled with guys that get worse as the season progresses... worse year after year. I can't name one guy that looked better for being here. We are not doing these guys any favors by keeping Kingston. I have a really hard time saying that doesn't matter if we win. I have a super hard time saying it doesn't matter if we are a consistent .500 program under him.

Do I expect him to be fired during the season? No. Do I believe it would be a good thing for the program and the players if he were? Yes

I agree, EXCEPT the Middle of the season firing. Let him Have this year, but if they dont go to Omaha, once a regular result, he needs to be FIRED!!

 

[DeeDave]

Any fair-minded person can see the differences in the program now and Kingston isn't getting it done.

Chad Holbrook won over 42 games three times and went to 2 super regionals. He was fired.

The most Mark has ever won is 42 games.

 

[Ward Jr]

Any fair-minded person can see the differences in the program now and Kingston isn't getting it done.

Chad Holbrook won over 42 games three times and went to 2 super regionals. He was fired.

The most Mark has ever won is 42 games.

Chad Holbrook also had us outside of the Top 25 for a good part of his stay.

It's not all about counting numbers, Dave.

There's plenty of context in-between -- especially in terms of competition.

 

[cockofdawn]

It baffles me that people on here are defending Kingston, oh well, to each his (or her) own opinion, mine is, NO OMAHA this year, Fire him, but then again, I am not making that decision....

 

[Ward Jr]

It baffles me that people on here are defending Kingston, oh well, to each his (or her) own opinion, mine is, NO OMAHA this year, Fire him, but then again, I am not making that decision....

If he makes the post season again on the heels of last season, I don't see how you can possibly fire him.

 

[cockofdawn]

If he makes the post season again on the heels of last season, I don't see how you can possibly fire him.

Considering this Administration, you are correct, ABSOLUTELY can Not fire him, no matter how BAD he is!!

 

[Ward Jr]

Considering this Administration, you are correct, ABSOLUTELY can Not fire him, no matter how BAD he is!!

For the sake of discussion, we've got a pretty brutal schedule to close out the regular season so there should be clarity in the end:

+ Tomorrow vs. #13 UNC in Charlotte
+ @ UF this weekend
+ #1 ARK the following weekend
+ #8 UK the following
+ @ Missouri the next
+ @ #4 Tennessee to close it out

Most likely, Kingston is going to need to stay above .500 from this point forward to make the postseason.

If he does that, he probably deserves another year.

 

[DeeDave]

It baffles me that people on here are defending Kingston, oh well, to each his (or her) own opinion, mine is, NO OMAHA this year, Fire him, but then again, I am not making that decision....

I'm not attacking him either. I'm just focused on reality.

If you compare him to Holbrook, then he deserves to be fired because he has not elevated the program at all- and isn't winning as much as Holbrook did.

He's had more time than Holbrook did. Is that fair? Maybe. But it's also mostly irrelevant. He's been given a chance to elevate the program.

I don't think anyone can fairly say he's elevated the program above what Holbrook did.

I saw a few posters on another site talking about being ranked. Being ranked (just opinions) by college baseball websites is totally irrelevant and pretty damn worthless when it comes to how you perform in number of wins, number of SEC wins, and post-season results.

Almost winning a Super Regional is not elevating the program. Holbrook almost won a Super Regional. Lots of coaches and programs almost win Super Regionals. It's evidence of where the program is at that South Carolina's baseball program is pointing to Almost Winning as evidence to keep a coach. Wow. How sorry is that.....

The question is- how Kingston elevated the program above Chad Holbrook's tenure?

I say he hasn't. He's not going to be fired this week. I'm not saying he should be. But this season has to show improvement and program elevation. The next step is required or it's time for new leadership.

 

[Ward Jr]

I'm not attacking him either. I'm just focused on reality.

If you compare him to Holbrook, then he deserves to be fired because he has not elevated the program at all- and isn't winning as much as Holbrook did.

He's had more time than Holbrook did. Is that fair? Maybe. But it's also mostly irrelevant. He's been given a chance to elevate the program.

I don't think anyone can fairly say he's elevated the program above what Holbrook did.

I saw a few posters on another site talking about being ranked. Being ranked (just opinions) by college baseball websites is totally irrelevant and pretty damn worthless when it comes to how you perform in number of wins, number of SEC wins, and post-season results.

Almost winning a Super Regional is not elevating the program. Holbrook almost won a Super Regional. Lots of coaches and programs almost win Super Regionals. It's evidence of where the program is at that South Carolina's baseball program is pointing to Almost Winning as evidence to keep a coach. Wow. How sorry is that.....

The question is- how Kingston elevated the program above Chad Holbrook's tenure?

I say he hasn't. He's not going to be fired this week. I'm not saying he should be. But this season has to show improvement and program elevation. The next step is required or it's time for new leadership.

So being ranked in all of the polls which are completely independent of each other is totally irrelevant? See Dave -- this is why you really could use a analytics class or ten. Unless you're going to extrapolate all of the data of the different SEC teams between Tanner's, Holbrook and Kingston's era for comparison -- you're just guessing in terms of relative performance. The SEC currently has 5 of the Top 10 teams in the country. This has not been always been the case.

Making a Super Regional isn't elevating the program? 16 teams out of 309 in D1 make the Supers. We gave the CWS runner-up all they could handle in Gainesville last season. We also were in the Top 10 for most of the year. That's a very good season by any measure.

If we don't make the post season this year, there's definitely an argument to be made to give someone else a shot. You're just not making that argument in what you've stated here.