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OT: GOT (Spoilers)

Ok I’m about to nerd out but Martin is pretty adamant about Tolkien being his primary influence . It’s all over his books . Jon clearly mirrors Aragorn : a reluctant ruler who doesn’t want to face his expectations. The Knights of the Vale at the BOB is clearly taken from the Rohan saving Gondor . The hero’s sacrificing themselves in the final battle just to buy time to accomplish the big goal . So here it goes .... one cool thing about LOTR is Sauron is never embodied . We know he exist , we know he is orchestrating everything but we never see him or even hear from him . Very similar to the NK . As of yet in the books he’s never been mentioned or seen at all . The NK could be a total creation of the show . Avg TV watchers need a villain and having the hero’s fight against swarms of ice Zombies with no main bad guy just wouldn’t work . Very curious when , or even if the NK is revealed in the books .
 
BobbyB1975 said:
Ok I’m about to nerd out but Martin is pretty adamant about Tolkien being his primary influence . It’s all over his books . Jon clearly mirrors Aragorn : a reluctant ruler who doesn’t want to face his expectations. The Knights of the Vale at the BOB is clearly taken from the Rohan saving Gondor . The hero’s sacrificing themselves in the final battle just to buy time to accomplish the big goal . So here it goes .... one cool thing about LOTR is Sauron is never embodied . We know he exist , we know he is orchestrating everything but we never see him or even hear from him . Very similar to the NK . As of yet in the books he’s never been mentioned or seen at all . The NK could be a total creation of the show . Avg TV watchers need a villain and having the hero’s fight against swarms of ice Zombies with no main bad guy just wouldn’t work . Very curious when , or even if the NK is revealed in the books .
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Yeah, its a different ball game with the books. There is mention of a Night's King, who was supposed to be a Lord Commander of the Nights Watch thousands of years ago. He fell in love with a woman, in some versions she was an Other (White Walker) He took a castle on the wall and declared himself king.
He is more of a legendary character than a real and current player.
 
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Curious, having never read the books. When you began reading the first one, was it apparent that you were starting something that would take a long time and possibly never be completed? Does each book have an “ending” of its own to at least give you the feeling of accomplishing something? I may not be asking this correctly, but hopefully some will get my point.
 
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PerchedOnRings said:
Curious, having never read the books. When you began reading the first one, was it apparent that you were starting something that would take a long time and possibly never be completed? Does each book have an “ending” of its own to at least give you the feeling of accomplishing something? I may not be asking this correctly, but hopefully some will get my point.
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I didn't start the first one until about 5 or 6 years ago. I didn't like it, at first. I read a few chapters and put it away for about 5 months. Then, over the next 2 months, I plowed through all 5 books.

I knew when I began that it would be a series, and most books (and most characters final POV chapter in each book) had the feel that there was more to come. But yes, each book tells its own set of stories.
 
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PerchedOnRings said:
Curious, having never read the books. When you began reading the first one, was it apparent that you were starting something that would take a long time and possibly never be completed? Does each book have an “ending” of its own to at least give you the feeling of accomplishing something? I may not be asking this correctly, but hopefully some will get my point.
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Yeah to an extent they do . However there are surprises . For instance , the Red Wedding happens in the middle of the book which blew me away . I had to turn back a few pages to make sure it really happened . The books go into TREMENDOUS detail on characters and storylines that never even came close to making the shows . Some characters in the book are 100 times better than those on the show and sometimes the show characters are way better than they were written . For instance Robb Stark was actually a very minor character in the book . He was important but not nearly portrayed as he was in the show . Euron is kind of lame in the show but in the books he is Amazing . Imagine Oberyn and Ramsey being fused into 1 character . He also has a horn that controls Dragons . Also, Ramsey is WAY more psychotic in the books than the show if you can imagine . Some of the stuff he does in the books would get you banned from TV .
 
BobbyB1975 said:
Yeah to an extent they do . However there are surprises . For instance , the Red Wedding happens in the middle of the book which blew me away . I had to turn back a few pages to make sure it really happened . The books go into TREMENDOUS detail on characters and storylines that never even came close to making the shows . Some characters in the book are 100 times better than those on the show and sometimes the show characters are way better than they were written . For instance Robb Stark was actually a very minor character in the book . He was important but not nearly portrayed as he was in the show . Euron is kind of lame in the show but in the books he is Amazing . Imagine Oberyn and Ramsey being fused into 1 character . He also has a horn that controls Dragons . Also, Ramsey is WAY more psychotic in the books than the show if you can imagine . Some of the stuff he does in the books would get you banned from TV .
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Robb is a major character. He just isn't a POV character. We see and hear about him a lot from Nedd, Jon, Arya, Cat, and other POV characters.
 
I"m sure most of you have already seen this elsewhere. I can't remember where I first read it, but after reading and re-watching...I'm in total agreement.

Jon Snow was the distraction for Arya to attack the Night King. The Ice Dragon is guarding the entrance to the Godswood, where the NK and his (useless) White Walker generals have converged on Bran. Jon looks at Arya (off-screen), realizes he can't wait any longer and stands in front of the dragon, shouting "GOOOOO...Go....Go)

 
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Bump...

Thoughts on S8:E4?

I thought it was decent but I am just wondering if and how they are going to flesh out some of these plotlines/theories we brought up or if it's just going to be an epic battle at Kings Landing?

Jaime heading back is interesting. Arya and the Hound? Varys and Tyrion's conflict... Episode 5 looks like it will be a wild one.
 
Feels like they are just hurrying to finish the show. I'm holding off judgement until the season is complete, but they didn't even address the Night King and the Walkers in last nights episode. Bran is sitting on the answers to all the mysteries and he barely speaks. They have roughly 3 hours to sort through everything ( i think both episodes are about 1:30). A lot of that time will be devoted the battle of Kings Landing where many main characters have to die.
I really hope they wrap up the loose ends in a way that fits within the reality of the show's construct. I'm done predicting what will happen as nothing has really gone the way I thought it would. And of course, "If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention", has to hold some meaning.
 
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I don’t think the battle at Kings landing will be all it’s cracked up to be. Some one close to Cersei is going to kill her. I am happy so far. I did not need any further explanations on the white walkers. I feel like everything has been covered. I will day this I have watch each season be for the new one comes out so I have watched the whole series 4 times and the earlier seasons more. Most of the questions that people have been asking have been answered.
 
BobbyB1975 said:
Real question : Who got shot down worse Rhaegal or Gendry ??
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Poor Gendry...but he had it coming. One day after sleeping with a girl for the first time, and he proposed? That's just sad. He could have at least waited 3 days to call her.
 
Another spoiler: TV NEWS reported sighting of what looked like a Starbucks cup in that big bar scene last night. HBO said oops.
 
Golden Cock said:
Another spoiler: TV NEWS reported sighting of what looked like a Starbucks cup in that big bar scene last night. HBO said oops.
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Bran obviously brought it back from the future . Or he used the same time machine Euron used to go from Dragonstone to Kings landing in 10 minutes . Either way a Starbucks cup is very explainable . Btw Jon is a very bad dog owner .
 
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Art__Vandelay said:
What do y'all think of the 'Tyrion is a Targaryen' theory? Some decent evidence from what I've read.
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There is some evidence behind this theory. I just hope it isn’t true. There have been plenty of “________ is a secret Targaryen” theories. Some say Jaime/Cersei, some mention bit characters in Dorne or Essos.
 
Jon Snow said:
There is some evidence behind this theory. I just hope it isn’t true. There have been plenty of “________ is a secret Targaryen” theories. Some say Jaime/Cersei, some mention bit characters in Dorne or Essos.
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I agree. I hope it isn't true either. I think if there are other Targaryens out there is cheapens the big secret of Jon's parentage.
 
I love the show but I hated everything that went on during episode 4. Dragon down, Mesandi(Really hoped she and Grey Worm would have had a happy ending), looks like Dany may be going crazy. With everything she's been through and overcome I would hate to see her go out on a bad note. I'm kinda hoping that she ends up pregnant and marries her nephew. LOL
 
3rdFloorDouglas1996 said:
I saw that the last 2 episodes have leaked online. Haven't and won't look for them or spoilers, but if they have and there's been big movement in the odds, there could be something to it. But I doubt it will be Bran. He barely speaks.
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Sheesh.... I wish I hadn’t even seen that tweet now.

Going to avoid the internet for next 2 weeks.
 
3rdFloorDouglas1996 said:
I saw that the last 2 episodes have leaked online. Haven't and won't look for them or spoilers, but if they have and there's been big movement in the odds, there could be something to it. But I doubt it will be Bran. He barely speaks.
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Not the episodes themselves, but there are spoilers going around that are most likely true.
 
To paraphrase Ramsey Bolton, "if you are expecting a happy ending then you haven't been paying attention."
 
MScott64 said:
Not the episodes themselves, but there are spoilers going around that are most likely true.
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Actually most of the Leaks have been WAY off base . I read a ton going into this season and so far none have been anywhere close . I believe there are a lot of plot lines that people have already figured out .
 
With only a couple episodes of a 7-season series left to be played, what is left that can't be guessed at happening with the show?
 
BobbyB1975 said:
Actually most of the Leaks have been WAY off base . I read a ton going into this season and so far none have been anywhere close . I believe there are a lot of plot lines that people have already figured out .
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This was posted on reddit a week and a half ago for tonight's episode:

"Dany's army will capture Jaime. Tyrion ask her to show mercy, Dany refuses. (likely when Tyrion tries to resign as Hand or this happens after the battle) Tyrion frees Jaime and try to get Cersei out of the city. Dany has Vary's executed (burned alive) and Dany assaults Kings landing in a one sided fight. Cersei makes a meat shield of all the innocent people to stop them from coming in. There should be a scene where a horse is ripped in half by a dragon. As Cersei is watching the dragon come in Qyburn suggests they leave. Cersei flashbacks to where she blew up something in the city (presumably the Sept of Baelor) when the dragon is blowing things up. The ramparts where Cersei and Missandei stood are burned open and green pyrotechnics used so likely Wildfire.

Lannister soldiers begin to surrender but the surrender bells "break" Dany. (bells might just be the climax of a building moment of anger/tension for Dany.) Grey worm lets his anger get the best of him, throws a spear at a surrendered soldier and starts a riot. Jon tries to stop Dany and Grey Worm (staredown with Grey Worm) but Lannisters start attacking again and Jon is forced to resume fighting. Drogon burns Kings landing and Euron's fleet (Cleganebowl, Mountain gets helmet knocked off and Hound tackles him off a ledge. Both land in fire and burn to death.) Jaime fights Euron and kills him but is mortally wounded in exchange. Cersei goes into the chambers where you first see the "catapult things". Jame makes it to Cersei to take her out of the city. Cersei has a speech about wanting the baby to survive, Jaime says the baby doesn't matter, just them.and they die together as the building collapses."
 
We all saw where this was headed. I just didn't want to believe it. Dany went through so much only to go mad now. I still wonder if this was where George Martin had her going when he was writing the books or if this is just where the show took her. Either way, I'm disappointed.
 
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I thought the episode sucked. So much going on that seems out of character...or, at the best, characters that have been established over 7 seasons have changed over 3 episodes.
Considering how accurate the spoilers I read last night were, I"m not thrilled with where this seems to be heading.
On a positive note, my wife says she read something that, if true, confirms a theory many share: GRRM has finished both books and signed a deal with HBO not to release them until after the show concludes. (from comments by the actor who played Barriston Selmy?)
If that is true, maybe the finished books get released by the end of the year.
 
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Well, they said that if you thought there was going to be a happy ending, then you weren't paying attention. Perhaps they were also talking about the ending of the show.....
 
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I was actually OK with last night's episode. Dany devolving into the Mad Queen has been inevitable as she could never reconcile Jon's more legitimate claim and the love the people of Westeros would have for him over her. She was never going to take the back seat to him or anyone. I will admit that her fall from hero to villain has been rushed, but that is due to the pacing issues the overall show has seen in the last few seasons.

Cersei's death was poetic. I expected to see Arya kill her and finish her list, but in retrospect her and Jamie dying under the collapsing figurative house of cards she had built to retain power was good.

The symbolism of Arya riding out of the carnage on a white horse is great.

Complaints about Ep 5: Last week Euron could shoot a dragon in the sky three times, but this week Dany incinerates the Iron fleet and all of the scorpions around Kings Landing and they only get a couple of shots off. And Euron's pointless death was I guess a perfect end to a pointless character. So much more potential in him that Martin will explore in the books.

Looking ahead to next week, Jon has to decide now between "his queen" and "his family". I think they can salvage what has been an underwhelming final season from a plot perspective. The battle scenes have been great. This is why I've been trying to hold off judgement until I see the full picture.
 
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Best episode since season 6.

Great payoff to 7 seasons of Daenerys being a psychopath. People who are upset about that, or didn’t think it was earned, weren’t paying attention, or were too busy naming their kids after the character and calling themselves mother of dragons. She’s always been a complex character, but clearly egomaniacal and leaning toward genocide since season 1.

All the other payoffs were good too.
 
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I could spend posts and posts wondering why D&D rushed the last part of this epic story. I could go on and on about inconsistencies and plot holes and problems between the books and the shows. But one moment from last night's episode sort of caught all the absurdity in one microcosm:

You're telling me that The Hound and Arya depart from Winterfell on horseback. They travel south through a war-torn realm gripped in chaos, untouched. They arrive at King's Landing untouched, and manage to literally just walk inside, untouched. They manage to do this just as the city is closed, even though Dany and company came by boat and beat them by presumably many weeks to begin the siege. Then they walk straight into The Red Keep. Then they walk straight to the map room. Then, AFTER ALL THIS, the Hound tells Arya she probably shouldn't, and she's just like: "Okay I won't." Then, the Hound literally walks straight into Cersei and company. Even though they're clearly RIGHT THERE, Cersei somehow slips out without bumping into Arya on the way down.
 
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