The Bottom Line About Coordinator as a Qualification...

[king ward]

It isn't. Wes Hanna posted this on his Facebook page today from J.C. Shurburtt , and I heartily agree with it.

The 'never been a coordinator argument'
From JC Shurburtt:
This is not to downplay those that are against a potential Shane Beamer hire because he has no head coaching experience. That's obviously something that many value in a coaching hire.
But this "never been a coordinator thing" is not as big of a deal as you would think. For the purposes of this, I am talking offensive/defensive coordinator because obviously Beamer has been a recruiting coordinator and a special teams coordinator at multiple stops, along with assistant head coach.
Urban Meyer was never a coordinator. He was the Notre Dame wide receivers coach before he took the Bowling Green job.
Ed Orgeron has never been a coordinator.
Dabo Swinney has never been a coordinator.
Pat Fitzgerald has never been a coordinator.
Mack Brown has been a coordinator one year- at Oklahoma in the 1980s and Switzer was running things- and he was a head coach before he was that coordinator for one year.
Jim Harbaugh has never been a coordinator.
Joe Morrison was never a coordinator.
PJ Fleck has never been a coordinator
Sam Pittman has never been a coordinator
Lou Holtz never was a coordinator
Mario Cristobal has never been a coordinator
Kirk Ferentz has never been a coordinator at the college level
Luke Fickell has only been a co-coordinator
Joe Paterno was never a coordinator
There are more, but I will stop there.
Now, all of these guys got their first head coaching jobs in different manners, different than Beamer to South Carolina would be for sure. That said, not being a coordinator before you are a head coach does not eliminate you from being good in the big chair. There are plenty of examples of this. Coordinator and head coach are two different gigs, especially these days dealing with this generation and in today's college football climate.
Just food for thought. I am not comparing Beamer's plight to any of these guys so don't come back with but this guy was different or that guy was because I freely admit that. But the singular "never been an offensive or defensive coordinator" argument doesn't hold as much water as you think.

2You and Mark Patton
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[sclawman77]

It isn't. Wes Hanna posted this on his Facebook page today from J.C. Shurburtt , and I heartily agree with it.

The 'never been a coordinator argument'
From JC Shurburtt:
This is not to downplay those that are against a potential Shane Beamer hire because he has no head coaching experience. That's obviously something that many value in a coaching hire.
But this "never been a coordinator thing" is not as big of a deal as you would think. For the purposes of this, I am talking offensive/defensive coordinator because obviously Beamer has been a recruiting coordinator and a special teams coordinator at multiple stops, along with assistant head coach.
Urban Meyer was never a coordinator. He was the Notre Dame wide receivers coach before he took the Bowling Green job.
Ed Orgeron has never been a coordinator.
Dabo Swinney has never been a coordinator.
Pat Fitzgerald has never been a coordinator.
Mack Brown has been a coordinator one year- at Oklahoma in the 1980s and Switzer was running things- and he was a head coach before he was that coordinator for one year.
Jim Harbaugh has never been a coordinator.
Joe Morrison was never a coordinator.
PJ Fleck has never been a coordinator
Sam Pittman has never been a coordinator
Lou Holtz never was a coordinator
Mario Cristobal has never been a coordinator
Kirk Ferentz has never been a coordinator at the college level
Luke Fickell has only been a co-coordinator
Joe Paterno was never a coordinator
There are more, but I will stop there.
Now, all of these guys got their first head coaching jobs in different manners, different than Beamer to South Carolina would be for sure. That said, not being a coordinator before you are a head coach does not eliminate you from being good in the big chair. There are plenty of examples of this. Coordinator and head coach are two different gigs, especially these days dealing with this generation and in today's college football climate.
Just food for thought. I am not comparing Beamer's plight to any of these guys so don't come back with but this guy was different or that guy was because I freely admit that. But the singular "never been an offensive or defensive coordinator" argument doesn't hold as much water as you think.

2You and Mark Patton
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We're already putting Beamer in the same company with Paterno, Lou, Meyer and Dabo. You can't help but laugh. I heard Vince Lombardi and Chuck Knoll weren't coordinators either.

 

[king ward]

We're already putting Beamer in the same company with Paterno, Lou, Meyer and Dabo. You can't help but laugh.

Like people laughed when those folks got hired as head coaches. The laughter became laughable.

 

[sclawman77]

Like people laughed when those folks got hired as head coaches. The laughter became laughable.

This is a total shot in the dark hire. I'm not a big fan of Napier but would much rather take him.

 

[king ward]

This is a total shot in the dark hire. I'm not a big fan of Napier but would much rather take him.

You need to prepare yourself.

 

[Lurker123]

Now let's list the coaches who have been coordinators first, and see how they compare.

The short answer is that it's true some have skipped that step. (Most of those didnt jump right to a P5 job through) Its not the norm and its legitimate concern.

Edit: I was surprised at some of the names, so I looked at a couple. Mack Brown was an OC at Iowa State. And Harbaugh came from the pros (if that makes a difference). Still surprising though

 

[midline]

Not a Beamer fan. Basically the same qualifications as Spurrier Jr, except many seem to be impressed because he is a nice guy. Personally, I'd rather see Chadwell get it than any of them. The man has a unique offensive mind and wins everywhere he goes. Done a great job at CCU, but the job he did at CSU is more impressive. Anybody that can win at that dump knows what they are doing.

 

[OldWiseCock]

Shurburtt has his facts wrong.

 

[Carolina Jones 21]

This is just for perspective. A Beamer hire isn't the outrageous risk it's gets played out to be but it is a significant one just the same. But as much as I like Chadwell too I think he is just as big a risk having never recruited against the top teams in the nation. I see the pros and cons of both. Napier is less of a risk perhaps but we've all seen coaches not make the move from the Other Five to the Power Five with success. I mean some do, some don't. I'll take one of those three come what may.

 

[Carolina4]

Regardless of who we hire this time around the fanbase needs to get behind 100%. I get how Muschamp didn’t have support from day 1. I was one that was skeptical. But of the names we are hearing we need to unify with them and get this train back on the rails.

Regardless of what many fans think about the hire...there are no guarantees here. We could make the correct hire today and still not see the results on the field. I think Beamer seems like a bit of a letdown and also seems like the “convenient” hire. But if he’s our guy I’m behind him from day 1. With Muschamp, I was far too skeptical and kind of waited to see if he could sway me. I think many felt that way. We can’t do that with our new coach, regardless of who we preferred.

 

[Gamecock Lifer]

We're already putting Beamer in the same company with Paterno, Lou, Meyer and Dabo. You can't help but laugh. I heard Vince Lombardi and Chuck Knoll weren't coordinators either.

You didn’t read the post did you?
“ I am not comparing Beamer's plight to any of these guys so don't come back with but this guy was different or that guy was because I freely admit that. But the singular "never been an offensive or defensive coordinator" argument doesn't hold as much water as you think”

 

[patback33]

Many great coordinators make horrible head coaches....they are different skill sets.

@king ward ,you cannot convince people with reason who have an embedded belief otherwise.

I don't pretend to have the answer to this conundrum, but I have to believe that our chosen leaders and consultants are vetting all interested parties in an attempt to find the best option. There are a multitude of "can't miss" lower level head coaches that all missed, so all the geniuses on this board guaranteeing success for Napier, Chadwell, etc., history would argue against them.

I will say this, and I feel it is something that we can all agree on. A very important piece of the equation is bringing a great, SEC level staff in that will have some continuity over the next 4 years or so. The staff needs to be a great mix of energy, ingenuity, and experience.

I will judge whoever is named the head coach by the assistant coaches he brings in. And then, we will still have to wait and see what happens.

 

[king ward]

Not a Beamer fan. Basically the same qualifications as Spurrier Jr, except many seem to be impressed because he is a nice guy. Personally, I'd rather see Chadwell get it than any of them. The man has a unique offensive mind and wins everywhere he goes. Done a great job at CCU, but the job he did at CSU is more impressive. Anybody that can win at that dump knows what they are doing.

You also need to prepare yourself.

 

[king ward]

This is just for perspective. A Beamer hire isn't the outrageous risk it's gets played out to be but it is a significant one just the same. But as much as I like Chadwell too I think he is just as big a risk having never recruited against the top teams in the nation. I see the pros and cons of both. Napier is less of a risk perhaps but we've all seen coaches not make the move from the Other Five to the Power Five with success. I mean some do, some don't. I'll take one of those three come what may.

Great attitude, Wes.

 

[The Doctors Back]

Agreed. Who’s to say a coordinator has the skills to be a head coach anyway? It’s a completely different skill set. It’s like saying that you must have flipped burgers at McDonalds in order to be the CEO of McDonalds.

 

[Garnet chicken]

This is how I understand Beamer's qualifications. He might be a good recruiter cause he was decent years ago. He might hire good coordinators. He might have a good offense. He's going to hire old USC coaches. His Dad's old school might want him back, if they change coaches. That's a butt load of mights to replace a 15 mil investment that you just sent packing.

 

[Gamecock Lifer]

This is how I understand Beamer's qualifications. He might be a good recruiter cause he was decent years ago. He might hire good coordinators. He might have a good offense. He's going to hire old USC coaches. His Dad's old school might want him back, if they change coaches. That's a butt load of mights to replace a 15 mil investment that you just sent packing.

None of this is accurate or has much bearing on why he is being considered. Also, every “Might” you mentioned is a “might” about every other candidate... Except the Va Tech thing- which there has been plenty of interest expressed by their fans and pundits and former players... That is certainly not a “might” at this point. They still have a HC currently though, as does EVERYBODY IN AMERICA BESIDES US- so speculating on which administrations are not interested in him are fantasy at this point- nobody else is hiring.

 

[salley5]

Look i say give it to Beamer. What do you have to lose. Its not like our program is in good shape. It's not. Its in the dumps right now. Let him come in and hire great coordinators and he will recruit like hell. Dabo is not a head coach. Just a cheerleader and great recruiter. He has great coordinators that coach their butts off. Beamer is young and motivated. He can recruit with the best of them. If he can get players like DJ, Lattimore and all them head hunters we had im all in

 

[sclawman77]

You didn’t read the post did you?
“ I am not comparing Beamer's plight to any of these guys so don't come back with but this guy was different or that guy was because I freely admit that. But the singular "never been an offensive or defensive coordinator" argument doesn't hold as much water as you think”

Yes and my point remains the same. Using those guys in the same context as Beamer is nonsensical.

 

[sclawman77]

You need to prepare yourself.

Preparing myself then for 4 to 5 more years of crap football.

 

[CockofEarle]

We're already putting Beamer in the same company with Paterno, Lou, Meyer and Dabo. You can't help but laugh. I heard Vince Lombardi and Chuck Knoll weren't coordinators either.

FWIW, Vince and Tom Landry both coordinators, at same time, on giants staff.....Tom was dc, Vinny oc.

 

[Gamecock Lifer]

Yes and my point remains the same. Using those guys in the same context as Beamer is nonsensical.

“They all coach or coached football”= non sensical?

The discussion really did not go much further in direct comparison than that. What is non-sensical is the sarcasm and vitriol some of our fans are spewing to denigrate a former coach here and legitimate candidate for our job. You nor anybody else has any clue how successful he would be here. He could fail or he could take us to un-matched heights. There is no need to drag the man’s name through the mud or exaggerate the truth to slander him as so many have been doing.

 

[king ward]

Yes and my point remains the same. Using those guys in the same context as Beamer is nonsensical.

The context is or was exactly the same for all of them. Based upon where those guys were in their careers when they became head coaches, it's nonsensical to preemptively dismiss Beamer. You need to prepare yourself.

 

[sclawman77]

The context is or was exactly the same for all of them. Based upon where those guys were in their careers when they became head coaches, it's nonsensical to preemptively dismiss Beamer. You need to prepare yourself.

Advice coming from one of the most pessimistic posters on this board the last 4 to 5 years. Just saying. I respect you trying to put a positive spin on this potential hire but I'm just not feeling it.

 

[sclawman77]

FWIW, Vince and Tom Landry both coordinators, at same time, on giants staff.....Tom was dc, Vinny oc.

It was sarcasm

 

[Flameout12]

You also need to prepare yourself.

Well....I guess being special teams coordinator and asst HC at 2 different places doesn't equate to being a OC or DC when it comes to becoming a HC. 😳
All things considered, Shane Beamer has a good as resume as most OCs or DCs.

I defer to Caslen...he's the boss.

 

[Dizzy01]

It’s fascinating that after watching a guy who was considered one of the top coordinators in the country for years fail spectacularly for a second time that people still get hung up on coordinator experience.

 

[Gamecock Lifer]

It’s fascinating that after watching a guy who was considered one of the top coordinators in the country for years fail spectacularly for a second time that people still get hung up on coordinator experience.

Truly... 🤷‍♂️

 

[king ward]

Advice coming from one of the most pessimistic posters on this board the last 4 to 5 years. Just saying. I respect you trying to put a positive spin on this potential hire but I'm just not feeling it.

It's advice I take myself and always have in times of foreboding. Now I freely offer it to you. Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[king ward]

It’s fascinating that after watching a guy who was considered one of the top coordinators in the country for years fail spectacularly for a second time that people still get hung up on coordinator experience.

I think that's game, set, match, and championship right there.

 

[fowl_mood]

Wow, Job Analysis on FGF. I spent 20 plus years doing job analysis. Ward, as usual, presents an entertaining and challenging perspective. But, it captures about 10%, if that, of what you need to know to develop qualifications. Who has the same qualities and failed? Who had other quals and succeeded at a higher rate, etc.

If you are going to do correlation analysis, you need a much larger sample size.

From a purely technical standpoint, what USC is doing is broadbanding the classification of head coach. Expanding it's pay band to encompass higher and lower quality jobs. *We should pay much less for a Beamer.

But Ward, Beamer does have many of the KSA's (knowledge, skills, abilities) to do the job . And his dad can write a letter asking for his assistant experience to be an equivalent for head coach.

An example....

hCaptcha solve page

www.indeed.com

 

[Lurker123]

It’s fascinating that after watching a guy who was considered one of the top coordinators in the country for years fail spectacularly for a second time that people still get hung up on coordinator experience.

Muschamps failure doesnt magically make experience a bad thing.

 

[yeasos]

Regardless of who we hire this time around the fanbase needs to get behind 100%. I get how Muschamp didn’t have support from day 1. I was one that was skeptical. But of the names we are hearing we need to unify with them and get this train back on the rails.

Regardless of what many fans think about the hire...there are no guarantees here. We could make the correct hire today and still not see the results on the field. I think Beamer seems like a bit of a letdown and also seems like the “convenient” hire. But if he’s our guy I’m behind him from day 1. With Muschamp, I was far too skeptical and kind of waited to see if he could sway me. I think many felt that way. We can’t do that with our new coach, regardless of who we preferred.

Didn't somebody hire a high school coach. Ok, but I think any pick will be a risk. I think we do have to get behind the pick 100%. Seem we are always divided and maybe that has always been our problem. I like all the candidates. Beamer does have the name brand to recruit nationally, he is at a great tradition based program right now and knows all the ins and outs of being a winner. All of the ex-players endorsing Beamer, Lattimore, Swearinger, etc is a big thing for me. Just sayin

 

[sickoftryingtothinkofausername]

I’m not looking up the history of all those coaches, but Urban Meyer and Dabo are NOT good examples.

Urban Meyer was an assistant for years and then began his head coaching career NOT at a P5 program. If he jumped straight from assistant coach to Florida, you’d have a valid comparison, but that’s not what happened.

In the case of Dabo, he was firmly entrenched in that program for years. They fired Bowden mid season and named Dabo interim head coach. Then after the season, they chose to take a gamble and kept him on, most likely to save their recruiting more than anything else. Not even close. Now, if they’d named Beamer the interim when Spurrier quit and then took a gamble, you’d have a comparison, but again that’s not what happened.

i imagine if I went through the history of those coaches on that list, they’d be similar to the ones above and NOT similar to the Beamer situation. I bet you’d be hard pressed to find an instance of a major program in a P5 conference going out and hiring some other program’s assistant to be their head coach.

 

[Lurker123]

I’m not looking up the history of all those coaches, but Urban Meyer and Dabo are NOT good examples.

Urban Meyer was an assistant for years and then began his head coaching career NOT at a P5 program. If he jumped straight from assistant coach to Florida, you’d have a valid comparison, but that’s not what happened.

In the case of Dabo, he was firmly entrenched in that program for years. They fired Bowden mid season and named Dabo interim head coach. Then after the season, they chose to take a gamble and kept him on, most likely to save their recruiting more than anything else. Not even close. Now, if they’d named Beamer the interim when Spurrier quit and then took a gamble, you’d have a comparison, but again that’s not what happened.

i imagine if I went through the history of those coaches on that list, they’d be similar to the ones above and NOT similar to the Beamer situation. I bet you’d be hard pressed to find an instance of a major program in a P5 conference going out and hiring some other program’s assistant to be their head coach.

Agreed. But he's cheap, and he had his dad's last name.

 

[75CarolinaFan]

It isn't. Wes Hanna posted this on his Facebook page today from J.C. Shurburtt , and I heartily agree with it.

The 'never been a coordinator argument'
From JC Shurburtt:
This is not to downplay those that are against a potential Shane Beamer hire because he has no head coaching experience. That's obviously something that many value in a coaching hire.
But this "never been a coordinator thing" is not as big of a deal as you would think. For the purposes of this, I am talking offensive/defensive coordinator because obviously Beamer has been a recruiting coordinator and a special teams coordinator at multiple stops, along with assistant head coach.
Urban Meyer was never a coordinator. He was the Notre Dame wide receivers coach before he took the Bowling Green job.
Ed Orgeron has never been a coordinator.
Dabo Swinney has never been a coordinator.
Pat Fitzgerald has never been a coordinator.
Mack Brown has been a coordinator one year- at Oklahoma in the 1980s and Switzer was running things- and he was a head coach before he was that coordinator for one year.
Jim Harbaugh has never been a coordinator.
Joe Morrison was never a coordinator.
PJ Fleck has never been a coordinator
Sam Pittman has never been a coordinator
Lou Holtz never was a coordinator
Mario Cristobal has never been a coordinator
Kirk Ferentz has never been a coordinator at the college level
Luke Fickell has only been a co-coordinator
Joe Paterno was never a coordinator
There are more, but I will stop there.
Now, all of these guys got their first head coaching jobs in different manners, different than Beamer to South Carolina would be for sure. That said, not being a coordinator before you are a head coach does not eliminate you from being good in the big chair. There are plenty of examples of this. Coordinator and head coach are two different gigs, especially these days dealing with this generation and in today's college football climate.
Just food for thought. I am not comparing Beamer's plight to any of these guys so don't come back with but this guy was different or that guy was because I freely admit that. But the singular "never been an offensive or defensive coordinator" argument doesn't hold as much water as you think.

2You and Mark Patton
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This is not and has never been the point. Almost all of those people were head coaches at smaller schools first. How many of them were head coaches for the first time at a school where the previous coach made more than $30mil?? Dabo was interim coach for half the season and Terry Don Jimmy Bob John Phillips had spoken to him for years about being a head coach.

And do any of you care that the guy who wrote that also did this same BS sales job for hiring Muschamp? The exact same crap! I'm tired of hiring unqualified coaches because people think JC Shurburtt is some kind of expert. Muschamp was a moronic hire and JC didn't know at the time. People are trusting this guy???? LOL!

One day I hope our fans finally wake up. So sad, so pathetic, so pitiful.

 

[75CarolinaFan]

Muschamps failure doesnt magically make experience a bad thing.

They always leave out "successful" experience. Funny how they think that doesn't matter.

 

[fowl_mood]

It isn't. Wes Hanna posted this on his Facebook page today from J.C. Shurburtt , and I heartily agree with it.

The 'never been a coordinator argument'
From JC Shurburtt:
This is not to downplay those that are against a potential Shane Beamer hire because he has no head coaching experience. That's obviously something that many value in a coaching hire.
But this "never been a coordinator thing" is not as big of a deal as you would think. For the purposes of this, I am talking offensive/defensive coordinator because obviously Beamer has been a recruiting coordinator and a special teams coordinator at multiple stops, along with assistant head coach.
Urban Meyer was never a coordinator. He was the Notre Dame wide receivers coach before he took the Bowling Green job.
Ed Orgeron has never been a coordinator.
Dabo Swinney has never been a coordinator.
Pat Fitzgerald has never been a coordinator.
Mack Brown has been a coordinator one year- at Oklahoma in the 1980s and Switzer was running things- and he was a head coach before he was that coordinator for one year.
Jim Harbaugh has never been a coordinator.
Joe Morrison was never a coordinator.
PJ Fleck has never been a coordinator
Sam Pittman has never been a coordinator
Lou Holtz never was a coordinator
Mario Cristobal has never been a coordinator
Kirk Ferentz has never been a coordinator at the college level
Luke Fickell has only been a co-coordinator
Joe Paterno was never a coordinator
There are more, but I will stop there.
Now, all of these guys got their first head coaching jobs in different manners, different than Beamer to South Carolina would be for sure. That said, not being a coordinator before you are a head coach does not eliminate you from being good in the big chair. There are plenty of examples of this. Coordinator and head coach are two different gigs, especially these days dealing with this generation and in today's college football climate.
Just food for thought. I am not comparing Beamer's plight to any of these guys so don't come back with but this guy was different or that guy was because I freely admit that. But the singular "never been an offensive or defensive coordinator" argument doesn't hold as much water as you think.

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Interesting aside. It could be argued that folks like Dabo, Holtz and Meyer had the "it" factor that made them skip a level and stand out. We all know it exists but there's no way to qualify it. Just hope we are not assigning it to Beamer cause we " know and like" him. Maybe he has it. Maybe not.

 

[75CarolinaFan]

Shurburtt has his facts wrong.

Surprise! Not.

 

[75CarolinaFan]

Agreed. Who’s to say a coordinator has the skills to be a head coach anyway? It’s a completely different skill set. It’s like saying that you must have flipped burgers at McDonalds in order to be the CEO of McDonalds.

No, that's what saying a career position coach can be a head coach is like.