I suppose all a teacher has to do is lead instruction with 20-30 students, keep them off their cellphone, and make sure all the students are washing their hands and wearing their masks properly, sure no problem!
Want your kids back in school? HS sports?
- Thread starter Elgringo
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It’s not that I am not sympathetic to teachers because I am. (Not paid enough, forced to be social workers, no true disciplinary structure, social promotion, etc..). However, it is their job of choice.
Do you think that Doctors, Nurses, therapist, Assistants, Janitorial staff, administrative staff, etc... get to say that they are not going to work because of the risks? What about EMS, Firefighters, Police Officers, or our Military? Each of these are on the front line. They do the work because it’s their job. Teachers teach because it’s their job. If schools open back up for face to face learning, it’s their choice to continue in that profession. Sorry for being truthful! But, that’s life. You either accept the risks and do your job or find a new one. Therein lies the choice.
There are a ton of false equivalencies in those job comparisons. I could state them all out but they should seem pretty apparent let me know if one doesn’t make sense and I’ll explain it
The option seems to be the only rational solution at this point. Thankfully, most districts in VA are doing just that. Not that it matters to me directly, my kids will continue getting the same education they have been. But for the community at large, absolutely this seems to be the best option. Let parents decide for their families what level of risk is acceptable for their circumstances, and what is best for their child's learning.
Ok, I will bite. Go ahead and name the logical fallacies that you seem to think I have drawn.
Well give me one of them specifically and I can, I stated that in the post you quoted
I would consider on-line classes to be an educational service. Tax dollars will be allocated to ensure that the technology stays good.
So you say that I was comparing apples to oranges but want me to point them out to you? I responded to a post by @importantcock. You inserted yourself so I guess that you have something you want to say. Just say it.
There are like 8 examples you posted and they all have issues.
doctors: they don’t, in most instances, deal with 100 patients a day. Masks are required and heavily enforced. People are literally tested coming in and/or temp. scan. It’s literally in their job description. Meets people mostly 1 to 1 not 1 to 30. Paid MUCH more. Have been trained for it.
do you need more?
In my tech support position, it had always been work in the office. COVID-19 forced us to work remotely (personally, I love it). There were initial missteps until we found our footing, and we have been working well since.
If virtual becomes a new normal, educators will need to fine tune the situation until it too finds its footing.
Obviously something that I said didn’t resonate with you. All that you have pointed out is a difference in jobs. I could fire back and say that you are using a logical fallacy about doctors. You assumed that I may have meant a clinical doctor. I know for a fact that my oncology team faces at least 75 a day 5 days a week. That equals 375 different people. Way more than what you say a teacher would face. What about Doctors Without Borders? Some of whom face thousands on a regular basis.
You are defending teachers. I can appreciate that. You are obviously trying to make some point. So, what’s the point?
That none of the jobs have similar circumstances and obstacles that teachers have to teach face to face in a classroom.
they have their own sure but nothing similar to what a teacher will deal with and their jobs are mostly incapable of being able to be done virtually while teaching can be done in that medium
I disagree wholeheartedly. From what I am gathering is that you are saying that teaching can be done virtually - thus that is the way it should be done. Am I off?
I am also gathering that you feel like teacher would be most at risk among the professions I mentioned. Are teachers somehow unable to wear a mask and sanitize like all others do?
Like I said earlier, some may have to choose a different profession. Many people are having to do that during this time in history. My point was rather simple. Choose to adapt and do the job that you have felt led to do or don’t. The teaching profession has it’s set of challenges but get over yourself if you think it’s any worse than anything anybody else is having to adapt to.
By golly, grocery clerks come in contact with more people daily and get paid less.
Grocery clerks at my local food lion work behind plexiglass screens. Teachers can’t do that.
Just because something can be done doesn’t mean it’s the best way to do it. My doctor did a virtual diagnostic of my back spasm but I dont think he should do that exclusively
Ok, I will bite with you as well. So, the grocery stores were smart enough to adapt but you are saying that teachers will be unable to?
You realize that a clerk basically stands in one place everyday right? Teachers, to be effective, have to move throughout the whole classroom. Also classes are right after one another, doesn’t leave a lot of time to disinfect 30 desks and common areas
If you would have read my post fully that you responded to you would see that I have in no way said there is only one way to teach.
And thanks for proving my point that somethings are better done in person. (your spasmodic back example)
I have never suggested full classrooms nor minimized what would be needed. I am simply saying that there are ways to do it in person for those who choose.
For example, teachers could have a plexiglass shield in front of their desk (ie. the grocery store clerk) and call students up individually to answer any questions or check work. Desks could be socially distanced. Classes would have to be smaller which is better for the students. Some families will opt for virtual classes anyway and they should have that choice. For the remaining students there could be split days 7-11 and 1-5 or rotation of full days (half M/W/F other T/Th then change the next week).
It might not fit what you have in your mind as the way it has to be done. I am sure that there are enough smarter people than me that administrate and educate that can garner better ideas. But, there are solutions!
Let me ask a question about all this split time schooling. If you are with the same group and exposed to them, aren't you pretty much exposed the first time? What does splitting time do for you?
It provides for social distancing and fewer students in a room at a time.
I don’t pretend to have all the answers. I am just saying that there are adjustments that can be made to create a safer environment. Nothing except bunkering down completely absolves anyone from risk. I have just pointed out some logical thoughts. I know that there are others much smarter than me that can come up with solutions for families that want/need their kids to have face to face teaching in a classroom.
You inadvertently brought up a good point. We may soon be seeing plexiglass screens in the classroom.
While a colonoscopy screening can be done with a "camera pill", everything I've heard/read is that a tube up the anus is the most effective way to screen.
Exactly. It may take time to find an effective solution. And the solution may likely vary from locale to locale.
So, I’m worried about the virus, no sports, the economy, riots and you have to throw in “ tube up the anus”. Thanks a lot
That’s possible, although given the nature of teaching, it would be a waste of time in many cases as teachers have to chaperone and accompany students to the cafeteria, and other areas they also have to be the first responder when a child gets sick or gets hurt. They can’t stay behind plexiglass.
Also, given the lack of funding in some schools, it might be impossible.
That’s where masks and gloves come into play. Yes, it’s far from ideal but “the show must go on.”
It’s a bad comparison.
grocery stores have clerks that are stationary for long periods of time. Teachers don’t do that.
grocery stores (employers) and teachers (employees) have different roles and responsibilities.
Grocery store employees may have it worse. At checkout there is usually a plexiglass but the cashier is only a few feet away from maby hundreds of customers. And,in general, stationary may not but may be no better than moving around
What grocery store have you been to lately, where the cashier is around 100’s of customers?
It could happen. I've been in limes of 5 or so, and that's just the few minutes I was in line. I know, theres rushes and lulls, but I could see a 100 or so in a shift. 200 might be pushing it.
Well... take a high school the size of the one where I teach; roughly 1000 students. Assume we're not on a block schedule and students have 7 classes per day. Teachers get a planning period so 6 classes per day. Assume 25 students per class. That's 150 students that we have direct contact with every day. That a pretty big number BUT, when the students change class they don't stay together. They all go to separate classes which may not have a single student that they shared my class with. In other words a whole new group of students. Throw in the crowds in the halls and an over crowded lunchroom and by the end of the day pretty much everyone has potentially been exposed to any covid germ that was on one student that day. I realize there's a lot of assumption in there but I believe the outcome is fairly plausible. And if it is, that means every teacher could potentially be exposed within just a few days of the germ arriving on campus. Edit to add: Take it one step further and say the teacher became infected unknowingly. He/she could theoretically infect 150 students directly in one day.
The answer to this is that Europe schools are fully open and not having big issues with the conditions that you are describing.
They don’t have the total number of cases we are having daily. France announced 75 positive cases, shortly after reopening their schools.
You should dig a little deeper. Some countries are having plenty of problems. Don't ask me which ones. My wife was telling me about it and I (as usual) didn't listen to the details.
