Clemson and the Arms Race

[MANAFOLD]

The Tilmans are braging this time about the 60 mil they are spending on their Football Operations Building across the street from the West Zone. They stated that this addition will elevate them to a program that ALL OTHERS will envy and try to emulate. In short, they are putting all their eggs in the football basket investing in this project they really cannot afford. Even with their new addition, they are falling behind the SEC schools and others . We are going to add similar offices for football operations. We have made great upgrades to our stadium with more on the way, such as new weight rooms, new training facilities. multi million dollar scoreboard, new locker rooms, University park, new practice fields, additional indoor practice facility as we've had one for years, plaza around the stadium, Dodie Educational Center, Wellness center, new alumni house, Carolina Stadium for baseball, new softball stadium, tennis facilities , new track stadium on the way, gamecock village, Colonial Life Arena and much more to come. Now I ask you, who is winning the arms race in this state?

 

[GamecockTripp]

They are also spending $60 million to renovate Littlejohn again, they're dropping a few million at Doug Kingsmore, they're still trying to finish the west end zone project that started nearly 10 years ago. In 2 years they will be dead broke. I've heard some brag about all the money IPTAY has because they've been hoarding it for 10-15 years. They may have it the bank now but our new SEC Network money will top that in less than 2 years. The third year we'll get another check (and the 4th, 5th, etc) and IPTAY will be broke.

 

[fightingcock103]

I can't wait for them to crash. I want them to cease existing in my lifetime, I have about another 50 years.

 

[USCRBCOCK]

Originally posted by GamecockTripp:
They are also spending $60 million to renovate Littlejohn again, they're dropping a few million at Doug Kingsmore, they're still trying to finish the west end zone project that started nearly 10 years ago. In 2 years they will be dead broke. I've heard some brag about all the money IPTAY has because they've been hoarding it for 10-15 years. They may have it the bank now but our new SEC Network money will top that in less than 2 years. The third year we'll get another check (and the 4th, 5th, etc) and IPTAY will be broke.

Can this be correct????? They're spending $60,000,000.00 for another RENOVATION of Littlejohn?????? Gold-plated toilets???? Hell, they could replace it for less. I need that contract....wow, someone is knocking their heads off....dumb taters.

 

[robertfootball]

So if one of those highly paid assistants leaves for a gig somewhere else does that mean Dabo won't have freedom to write the checks with IPTAY money and get whoever he wants?

 

[uscbeckham]

Originally posted by USCRBCOCK:

Originally posted by GamecockTripp:
They are also spending $60 million to renovate Littlejohn again, they're dropping a few million at Doug Kingsmore, they're still trying to finish the west end zone project that started nearly 10 years ago. In 2 years they will be dead broke. I've heard some brag about all the money IPTAY has because they've been hoarding it for 10-15 years. They may have it the bank now but our new SEC Network money will top that in less than 2 years. The third year we'll get another check (and the 4th, 5th, etc) and IPTAY will be broke.

Can this be correct????? They're spending $60,000,000.00 for another RENOVATION of Littlejohn?????? Gold-plated toilets???? Hell, they could replace it for less. I need that contract....wow, someone is knocking their heads off....dumb taters.

It's pretty ridiculous. They closed it and ripped it up 12-13 years ago in order to keep up with the CLA. Now, they have to do it all over again, and it still won't be as nice of a gym as CLA.

As for baseball, they can try, and they'll have a nice facility. It will still fall tragically short of Carolina Stadium.

 

[robertfootball]

You never hear taters talk junk about the CLA or Carolina Stadium. They can't because they know both are light years better then anything they have or play in. All the talk junk about is Williams Brice and hopefully that will receive a significant facelift in the future. It needs it under the stadium badly, so dark down there and it could be so much nicer. If we work on WB the way we have other projects I don't think the taters will be able to put down WB any longer.

 

[NaturalGC7]

Which will occur first at KKKlemsux.....running out of money on renovations, or paying players?

 

[Memphis Cock]

Originally posted by NaturalGC7:
Which will occur first at KKKlemsux.....running out of money on renovations, or paying players?

They will always have cash for players... It's a big part of "the tradition" up thar

 

[jdf1953]

Originally posted by fightingcock103:
I can't wait for them to crash. I want them to cease existing in my lifetime, I have about another 50 years.

I go along with this but I don't have as much time.

The Tillman Hall controversy seems to be getting attention. Will be interesting to see how this goes now that David Wilkins has said no way with the name change.

 

[gamecockengineer2011]

We really need to tear out the original lower 3/4 bowl (South, east, and north stands) and rebuild them to match the lower west and make a full lower bowl. Do just like what the Citrus Bowl Stadium did and add new bathrooms and concessions.

 

[SpartanSpur]

Originally posted by gamecockengineer2011:
We really need to tear out the original lower 3/4 bowl (South, east, and north stands) and rebuild them to match the lower west and make a full lower bowl. Do just like what the Citrus Bowl Stadium did and add new bathrooms and concessions.

I agree, but that will not be done in my lifetime. The next thing for football should be locker room, weight room, coaches office's need to be over by the practice fields.

 

[GamecockTripp]

Originally posted by USCRBCOCK:

Originally posted by GamecockTripp:
They are also spending $60 million to renovate Littlejohn again, they're dropping a few million at Doug Kingsmore, they're still trying to finish the west end zone project that started nearly 10 years ago. In 2 years they will be dead broke. I've heard some brag about all the money IPTAY has because they've been hoarding it for 10-15 years. They may have it the bank now but our new SEC Network money will top that in less than 2 years. The third year we'll get another check (and the 4th, 5th, etc) and IPTAY will be broke.

Can this be correct????? They're spending $60,000,000.00 for another RENOVATION of Littlejohn?????? Gold-plated toilets???? Hell, they could replace it for less. I need that contract....wow, someone is knocking their heads off....dumb taters.

Supposedly, the "new" Littlejohn will look like an entirely brand new arena when they get done with it. However, capacity will drop down to about 8,500 and won't have any suites.

 

[GamecockTripp]

Originally posted by gamecockengineer2011:
We really need to tear out the original lower 3/4 bowl (South, east, and north stands) and rebuild them to match the lower west and make a full lower bowl. Do just like what the Citrus Bowl Stadium did and add new bathrooms and concessions.

I've wanted this for years. I'd implode the entire east side. The east upper doesn't match up with the west. I'd implode the entire east and rebuild it to 100% match up with the west. That would probably add us about 1,000 to 2,000 lower deck seats. It would also give us more suites on that side too. Over the next 10-20 years, we could rebuild the north end zone and add an upper deck on that side that fully bowls that end in when we needed it. Then we could eventually redo the south end zone completely to match up with the north. Of course, it could be 40 years before we'd need to address the south.

 

[uscbeckham]

Originally posted by GamecockTripp:

Originally posted by gamecockengineer2011:
We really need to tear out the original lower 3/4 bowl (South, east, and north stands) and rebuild them to match the lower west and make a full lower bowl. Do just like what the Citrus Bowl Stadium did and add new bathrooms and concessions.

I've wanted this for years. I'd implode the entire east side. The east upper doesn't match up with the west. I'd implode the entire east and rebuild it to 100% match up with the west. That would probably add us about 1,000 to 2,000 lower deck seats. It would also give us more suites on that side too. Over the next 10-20 years, we could rebuild the north end zone and add an upper deck on that side that fully bowls that end in when we needed it. Then we could eventually redo the south end zone completely to match up with the north. Of course, it could be 40 years before we'd need to address the south.

The East side matches the West.

The West Upper was built with the first 4 rows missing in order to put boxes and press row underneath. That is why the East Upper has 43 rows and the West Upper has 39 rows. Row 43 East and Row 39 West matchup.

Also, the East side was designed to have a 53-row lower deck identical to the West Lower. The ramps on the East still have turnouts for a Main concourse and the elevator shaft has doors on that level, but it was never built.

 

[EssoClub2]

Originally posted by robertfootball:
You never hear taters talk junk about the CLA or Carolina Stadium. They can't because they know both are light years better then anything they have or play in. All the talk junk about is Williams Brice and hopefully that will receive a significant facelift in the future. It needs it under the stadium badly, so dark down there and it could be so much nicer. If we work on WB the way we have other projects I don't think the taters will be able to put down WB any longer.

My 2 cents worth....

Carolina Stadium is a FANTASTIC baseball venue. I live in Scottsdale , and bunch of the MLB clubs obviously have their spring t raining facilities out here. With the exception of the new DiamondBacks stadium I would say that you guys would top the list. By the way, it isn't really a fair comparison against the Diamond Back stadium, as it is being used as a miluti use venue and has a lot of public money involved. I give USC the nod as a better college baseball venue than Clemson. I do not think it is light years better. If I rated SC as a top 5, I would say Doug Kingsmore after these renovations would be a top 10 .

CLA- I guess to each his own about this one. I am one that likes a bit smaller venue for college basketball. I lived in Knoxville for years and absolutely hated the Vols gigantic arena. They just seem like big warehouses to me. Again that is just my opinion, I do not really like CLA. Clemson's LittleJohn is landlocked, poorly designed from the beginning but located at such a great spot on Campus. The rendering of the changes that I have seen of this renovation make it a pretty cool place inside , and it does ring the court with students. The problem both SC and Clemson have with the reputation of their gyms has less to do with how they look or how many they hold , and more to do with the fact that neither school seems to be able to put together a consistent top 20 team on the floor. Again, my opinion , I like the smaller arena, and would really rate the two venues as providing a non-top 25 type environment. I would say that an objective observer would rate the SC gym well ahead of little john.

WB and the Valley- along with football facilities- The west zone has been great for Clemson, and for those that want to say it has been going on a decade and it is still not finished. That has always been the plan. It is being done in stages, it gives new stuff to show the recruits every year, it helps build momentum. This next phase is going to be something. Try as I may I can't rate the SC football stadium close to Death Valley as a premium college football venue. It is not in a very pretty area, it doesn't have any real "landmarks" or great skyline in the background. It does hold the noise well and looks good on night games on TV. I think it is fine, I just do not think I would consider it very special compared to many college venues. Whether sc fans want to acknowledge it or not, Clemson is very fortunate to have a stadium like it does right on campus, with a lake behind the west endzone and blue ridge mountains on the skyline. It looks great on TV and has been the focus of a great deal of national attention. I would rate Clemson in the Top 5 environments for a big game in the country, I would have SC maybe in the top 15. Unbiased observers would most definitely give the nod to Clemson here.

Luckily for me, I care most about football . I would say you get the easy nod on baseball, I really do not see it as much better than a toss up in basketball, but I would give you the slight nod, and I think that Clemson by far wins the football environment nod.

Ok Have at me ....

 

[EssoClub2]

Originally posted by robertfootball:
So if one of those highly paid assistants leaves for a gig somewhere else does that mean Dabo won't have freedom to write the checks with IPTAY money and get whoever he wants?

You do know how much SC is paying SOS ? You also know that Dabo takes less to pay those assistants?

 

[robertfootball]

Originally posted by uscbeckham:

Originally posted by GamecockTripp:

Originally posted by gamecockengineer2011:
We really need to tear out the original lower 3/4 bowl (South, east, and north stands) and rebuild them to match the lower west and make a full lower bowl. Do just like what the Citrus Bowl Stadium did and add new bathrooms and concessions.

I've wanted this for years. I'd implode the entire east side. The east upper doesn't match up with the west. I'd implode the entire east and rebuild it to 100% match up with the west. That would probably add us about 1,000 to 2,000 lower deck seats. It would also give us more suites on that side too. Over the next 10-20 years, we could rebuild the north end zone and add an upper deck on that side that fully bowls that end in when we needed it. Then we could eventually redo the south end zone completely to match up with the north. Of course, it could be 40 years before we'd need to address the south.

The East side matches the West.

The West Upper was built with the first 4 rows missing in order to put boxes and press row underneath. That is why the East Upper has 43 rows and the West Upper has 39 rows. Row 43 East and Row 39 West matchup.

Also, the East side was designed to have a 53-row lower deck identical to the West Lower. The ramps on the East still have turnouts for a Main concourse and the elevator shaft has doors on that level, but it was never built.

I think what he meant is there's more of a curve to the west stands (lower and upper) whereas the east doesn't have that same curve to it. I'm not sure why they built them like that but I thought I read somewhere that they didn't have the same amount of room when they were built? I'm sure there's more to it then that though.

 

[robertfootball]

Originally posted by EssoClub2:

Originally posted by robertfootball:
So if one of those highly paid assistants leaves for a gig somewhere else does that mean Dabo won't have freedom to write the checks with IPTAY money and get whoever he wants?

You do know how much SC is paying SOS ? You also know that Dabo takes less to pay those assistants?

For the amount of attention nationally that our program has received simply because Spurrier was the coach, I think those millions have been well spent on paying him. I know some people see it as "SC doesn't have an identity, Spurrier is the face of that program" and that's true.

 

[EssoClub2]

Originally posted by robertfootball:

Originally posted by EssoClub2:

Originally posted by robertfootball:
So if one of those highly paid assistants leaves for a gig somewhere else does that mean Dabo won't have freedom to write the checks with IPTAY money and get whoever he wants?

You do know how much SC is paying SOS ? You also know that Dabo takes less to pay those assistants?

For the amount of attention nationally that our program has received simply because Spurrier was the coach, I think those millions have been well spent on paying him. I know some people see it as "SC doesn't have an identity, Spurrier is the face of that program" and that's true.

Robert, I agree with you . SC has gotten huge amount of national exposure with Spurrier. My point was only that , with SEC money SC should be able to hire the best of the best as assistant coaches. I am surprised that there is not at least a bit of rumbling that SOS makes too much money based on his teams performance on the field. Does it seem to you that he wants to be sure that no one else on staff "shares his spotlight"?

 

[gamecock_07]

Originally posted by EssoClub2:

Originally posted by robertfootball:
So if one of those highly paid assistants leaves for a gig somewhere else does that mean Dabo won't have freedom to write the checks with IPTAY money and get whoever he wants?

You do know how much SC is paying SOS ? You also know that Dabo takes less to pay those assistants?

You do know Spurrier is both the head coach and OC, right? (well, most of the time at least) Dabo is the recruiting coordinator, chaplain, and motivational speaker.

This post was edited on 2/12 12:36 PM by gamecock_07

 

[CaliCock]

Originally posted by EssoClub2:

Originally posted by robertfootball:
So if one of those highly paid assistants leaves for a gig somewhere else does that mean Dabo won't have freedom to write the checks with IPTAY money and get whoever he wants?

You do know how much SC is paying SOS ? You also know that Dabo takes less to pay those assistants?

lol, Dabo takes less than SOS because he is WORTH less. As far as football coaches go Dabo Swinney isn't even in the same solar system as Spurrier.

 

[Six Million Dollar Man]

Originally posted by uscbeckham:

Originally posted by GamecockTripp:

Originally posted by gamecockengineer2011:
We really need to tear out the original lower 3/4 bowl (South, east, and north stands) and rebuild them to match the lower west and make a full lower bowl. Do just like what the Citrus Bowl Stadium did and add new bathrooms and concessions.

I've wanted this for years. I'd implode the entire east side. The east upper doesn't match up with the west. I'd implode the entire east and rebuild it to 100% match up with the west. That would probably add us about 1,000 to 2,000 lower deck seats. It would also give us more suites on that side too. Over the next 10-20 years, we could rebuild the north end zone and add an upper deck on that side that fully bowls that end in when we needed it. Then we could eventually redo the south end zone completely to match up with the north. Of course, it could be 40 years before we'd need to address the south.

The East side matches the West.

The West Upper was built with the first 4 rows missing in order to put boxes and press row underneath. That is why the East Upper has 43 rows and the West Upper has 39 rows. Row 43 East and Row 39 West matchup.

Also, the East side was designed to have a 53-row lower deck identical to the West Lower. The ramps on the East still have turnouts for a Main concourse and the elevator shaft has doors on that level, but it was never built.

You'd think Beck got married in the stadium. LOL! So did the bride get on your butt for counting steps?

 

[IrmoGamecock]

When Spurrier got to USC he insisted that USC reduce his salary so the

money could go to his assistant and women's coaches. He's a huge supporter of women's athletics. He's always cut back his raises to divert more towards his assistants. The one area I think Clemson does top USC is in recruiting efforts and staff. USC better start using revenue to build a top notch recruiting center and operations facility.

 

[SliderUSC]

Originally posted by EssoClub2:

Originally posted by robertfootball:
So if one of those highly paid assistants leaves for a gig somewhere else does that mean Dabo won't have freedom to write the checks with IPTAY money and get whoever he wants?

You do know how much SC is paying SOS ? You also know that Dabo takes less to pay those assistants?

I wonder where Dabo learned that? He's a little late to the game.

"If this is the new Spurrier, eager South Carolina fans will take him. He signed a seven-year contract with a guaranteed salary of $1.25 million a year with incentives that could add as much as $900,000 each year, a deal that Spurrier negotiated to be lower so that his assistant coaches would be paid more.


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/24/sports/ncaafootball/24spurrier.html?pagewanted=print&position=&_r=0

 

[Number1pjones]

Originally posted by EssoClub2:

Originally posted by robertfootball:

Originally posted by EssoClub2:

Originally posted by robertfootball:
So if one of those highly paid assistants leaves for a gig somewhere else does that mean Dabo won't have freedom to write the checks with IPTAY money and get whoever he wants?

You do know how much SC is paying SOS ? You also know that Dabo takes less to pay those assistants?

For the amount of attention nationally that our program has received simply because Spurrier was the coach, I think those millions have been well spent on paying him. I know some people see it as "SC doesn't have an identity, Spurrier is the face of that program" and that's true.

Robert, I agree with you . SC has gotten huge amount of national exposure with Spurrier. My point was only that , with SEC money SC should be able to hire the best of the best as assistant coaches. I am surprised that there is not at least a bit of rumbling that SOS makes too much money based on his teams performance on the field. Does it seem to you that he wants to be sure that no one else on staff "shares his spotlight"?

I hate to agree with you in any way, shape or form, but this has crossed my mind. Now, I'm not saying that Dabo is being less selfish and more honorable by taking less to pay assistants more. But I can see how that PERCEPTION makes Dabo LOOK like he is willing to sacrifice more than Spurrier in that particular situation. Whatever that's worth.

 

[cockynSC66]

Maybe...maybe not. Only time will tell. Dabo sure kicked our butt this year.

 

[uscbeckham]

Originally posted by Birdiecock:

Originally posted by uscbeckham:

Originally posted by GamecockTripp:

Originally posted by gamecockengineer2011:
We really need to tear out the original lower 3/4 bowl (South, east, and north stands) and rebuild them to match the lower west and make a full lower bowl. Do just like what the Citrus Bowl Stadium did and add new bathrooms and concessions.

I've wanted this for years. I'd implode the entire east side. The east upper doesn't match up with the west. I'd implode the entire east and rebuild it to 100% match up with the west. That would probably add us about 1,000 to 2,000 lower deck seats. It would also give us more suites on that side too. Over the next 10-20 years, we could rebuild the north end zone and add an upper deck on that side that fully bowls that end in when we needed it. Then we could eventually redo the south end zone completely to match up with the north. Of course, it could be 40 years before we'd need to address the south.

The East side matches the West.

The West Upper was built with the first 4 rows missing in order to put boxes and press row underneath. That is why the East Upper has 43 rows and the West Upper has 39 rows. Row 43 East and Row 39 West matchup.

Also, the East side was designed to have a 53-row lower deck identical to the West Lower. The ramps on the East still have turnouts for a Main concourse and the elevator shaft has doors on that level, but it was never built.

You'd think Beck got married in the stadium. LOL! So did the bride get on your butt for counting steps?

Haha. Not counting steps. But back in the Holtz era, I use to go play football with friends on the field. Nobody cared back then. We would go through all of the club levels until we found one with an operating Coke machine. Usually The Zone, since it is used year-round. Also, it was good to cool off in the press box or The Zone in July. Learned a lot about the stadium in high school and the years after.

 

[1SGgamecock]

I would say it depends if you go to the game to watch football or look at the view. If you go to look at the view, I'll give Clemson the nod...If you go to watch the game, then I'll call it equal as all football fields are 100 yards long and the same width. We do have sandstorm over that gay woohoo thingy though.

 

[Cocky kebo57]

Originally posted by robertfootball:
You never hear taters talk junk about the CLA or Carolina Stadium. They can't because they know both are light years better then anything they have or play in. All the talk junk about is Williams Brice and hopefully that will receive a significant facelift in the future. It needs it under the stadium badly, so dark down there and it could be so much nicer. If we work on WB the way we have other projects I don't think the taters will be able to put down WB any longer.


Hard for the tillmanites to talk junk about Carolina Stadium when they walk by the entrance and we have those twin bak-2-bak trophies sitting in the display case!! And the CLA is just as nice as any indoor stadium in the nation.

 

[USCRBCOCK]

Originally posted by EssoClub2:

Originally posted by robertfootball:
You never hear taters talk junk about the CLA or Carolina Stadium. They can't because they know both are light years better then anything they have or play in. All the talk junk about is Williams Brice and hopefully that will receive a significant facelift in the future. It needs it under the stadium badly, so dark down there and it could be so much nicer. If we work on WB the way we have other projects I don't think the taters will be able to put down WB any longer.

My 2 cents worth....

Carolina Stadium is a FANTASTIC baseball venue. I live in Scottsdale , and bunch of the MLB clubs obviously have their spring t raining facilities out here. With the exception of the new DiamondBacks stadium I would say that you guys would top the list. By the way, it isn't really a fair comparison against the Diamond Back stadium, as it is being used as a miluti use venue and has a lot of public money involved. I give USC the nod as a better college baseball venue than Clemson. I do not think it is light years better. If I rated SC as a top 5, I would say Doug Kingsmore after these renovations would be a top 10 .

CLA- I guess to each his own about this one. I am one that likes a bit smaller venue for college basketball. I lived in Knoxville for years and absolutely hated the Vols gigantic arena. They just seem like big warehouses to me. Again that is just my opinion, I do not really like CLA. Clemson's LittleJohn is landlocked, poorly designed from the beginning but located at such a great spot on Campus. The rendering of the changes that I have seen of this renovation make it a pretty cool place inside , and it does ring the court with students. The problem both SC and Clemson have with the reputation of their gyms has less to do with how they look or how many they hold , and more to do with the fact that neither school seems to be able to put together a consistent top 20 team on the floor. Again, my opinion , I like the smaller arena, and would really rate the two venues as providing a non-top 25 type environment. I would say that an objective observer would rate the SC gym well ahead of little john.

WB and the Valley- along with football facilities- The west zone has been great for Clemson, and for those that want to say it has been going on a decade and it is still not finished. That has always been the plan. It is being done in stages, it gives new stuff to show the recruits every year, it helps build momentum. This next phase is going to be something. Try as I may I can't rate the SC football stadium close to Death Valley as a premium college football venue. It is not in a very pretty area, it doesn't have any real "landmarks" or great skyline in the background. It does hold the noise well and looks good on night games on TV. I think it is fine, I just do not think I would consider it very special compared to many college venues. Whether sc fans want to acknowledge it or not, Clemson is very fortunate to have a stadium like it does right on campus, with a lake behind the west endzone and blue ridge mountains on the skyline. It looks great on TV and has been the focus of a great deal of national attention. I would rate Clemson in the Top 5 environments for a big game in the country, I would have SC maybe in the top 15. Unbiased observers would most definitely give the nod to Clemson here.

Luckily for me, I care most about football . I would say you get the easy nod on baseball, I really do not see it as much better than a toss up in basketball, but I would give you the slight nod, and I think that Clemson by far wins the football environment nod.

Ok Have at me ....

your .02 wasn't worth the time you spent writing that diatribe......

1. Doug Kingsmore can't even sniff the coat tail of Carolina Stadium

 

[Clevercock3]

Originally posted by USCRBCOCK:

Originally posted by EssoClub2:

Originally posted by robertfootball:
You never hear taters talk junk about the CLA or Carolina Stadium. They can't because they know both are light years better then anything they have or play in. All the talk junk about is Williams Brice and hopefully that will receive a significant facelift in the future. It needs it under the stadium badly, so dark down there and it could be so much nicer. If we work on WB the way we have other projects I don't think the taters will be able to put down WB any longer.

My 2 cents worth....

Carolina Stadium is a FANTASTIC baseball venue. I live in Scottsdale , and bunch of the MLB clubs obviously have their spring t raining facilities out here. With the exception of the new DiamondBacks stadium I would say that you guys would top the list. By the way, it isn't really a fair comparison against the Diamond Back stadium, as it is being used as a miluti use venue and has a lot of public money involved. I give USC the nod as a better college baseball venue than Clemson. I do not think it is light years better. If I rated SC as a top 5, I would say Doug Kingsmore after these renovations would be a top 10 .

CLA- I guess to each his own about this one. I am one that likes a bit smaller venue for college basketball. I lived in Knoxville for years and absolutely hated the Vols gigantic arena. They just seem like big warehouses to me. Again that is just my opinion, I do not really like CLA. Clemson's LittleJohn is landlocked, poorly designed from the beginning but located at such a great spot on Campus. The rendering of the changes that I have seen of this renovation make it a pretty cool place inside , and it does ring the court with students. The problem both SC and Clemson have with the reputation of their gyms has less to do with how they look or how many they hold , and more to do with the fact that neither school seems to be able to put together a consistent top 20 team on the floor. Again, my opinion , I like the smaller arena, and would really rate the two venues as providing a non-top 25 type environment. I would say that an objective observer would rate the SC gym well ahead of little john.

WB and the Valley- along with football facilities- The west zone has been great for Clemson, and for those that want to say it has been going on a decade and it is still not finished. That has always been the plan. It is being done in stages, it gives new stuff to show the recruits every year, it helps build momentum. This next phase is going to be something. Try as I may I can't rate the SC football stadium close to Death Valley as a premium college football venue. It is not in a very pretty area, it doesn't have any real "landmarks" or great skyline in the background. It does hold the noise well and looks good on night games on TV. I think it is fine, I just do not think I would consider it very special compared to many college venues. Whether sc fans want to acknowledge it or not, Clemson is very fortunate to have a stadium like it does right on campus, with a lake behind the west endzone and blue ridge mountains on the skyline. It looks great on TV and has been the focus of a great deal of national attention. I would rate Clemson in the Top 5 environments for a big game in the country, I would have SC maybe in the top 15. Unbiased observers would most definitely give the nod to Clemson here.

Luckily for me, I care most about football . I would say you get the easy nod on baseball, I really do not see it as much better than a toss up in basketball, but I would give you the slight nod, and I think that Clemson by far wins the football environment nod.

Ok Have at me ....

your .02 wasn't worth the time you spent writing that diatribe......

1. Doug Kingsmore can't even sniff the coat tail of Carolina Stadium

 

[hobcawcreekcock]

The ONLY thing better about DV is the setting. Lake Hartwell, mountains, etc. The UD's at DV are downright atrocious. I sit is sec 504 at WB, East Upper, and I can say without one bit of hesitation that our UD and yours are light years apart. DV limits access to the lower decks, can't even walk down there unless you have a LD ticket. I do like the fact that you can leave the stadium for a drink, or fill your flask.

Watching a football game from the UD's at DV is akin to looking out of an airplane window at 1,000 feet...

Baseball, basketball, and football venues are all superior to Clemson's. I haven't sat in the lower deck at DV since 1978, but I have been in the UD numerous times, and it SUCKS, North and South sides equally!

 

[allyourbase]

The setting of Death Valley is pretty nice. USC's setting is underrated. It will never be as recognized as Clemson's by the media types, but between the Cockabooses, 3 breweries, a gigantic open tailgating area, and the recent and upcoming improvements, Carolina's a nice place to tailgate and hang out before a game.

The upper deck is pretty lousy at Clemson. The seats are just terrible. The restrooms at Clemson seem marginally better than ours, and the concourse is usually less-jammed.

Traffic at Clemson is awful. Like, it's just the worst.

The big game atmosphere is better at USC and, since we're in the SEC, we get more big games. No piped in band music or crowd noise.

 

[AnCRooster]

I'll take the large parking lot, open space tailgaiting lots any day over the numerous patchwork small lots that all of these other schools think are so great.

 

[carolinascooter]

Agreed....parking in fairgrounds > field dodging cow patties

 

[achilles#]

Originally posted by EssoClub2:

Originally posted by robertfootball:
So if one of those highly paid assistants leaves for a gig somewhere else does that mean Dabo won't have freedom to write the checks with IPTAY money and get whoever he wants?

You do know how much SC is paying SOS ? You also know that Dabo takes less to pay those assistants?

You won't get much sympathy here, being the enemy and all.

But as long as Clemson hires good OC's and DC's, and they all mesh together Clemson is going to do very well.

I think even you might admit Dabo comes across as trying too hard, with a clownish result at times. Personally I think he has issues of a sort (like most people do) about his early life, the lack of money and the situation his family was in when his dad left. (Cue the inevitable bed mockery)

But his formula works. We talk a lot about recruiting on these sites, but no one ever asks the question, if Dabo recruits that well at Clemson, how would he do at a school with a better recruiting area like one of the blueblood jobs?

I doubt he ever gets an offer to coach Alabama or Florida, but as long as Clemson hires good coordinators, and is ruthless about getting rid of one that isn't working out, they are typically one victory over Florida State from being one of the teams talked about for the playoff.

And honestly it would work at Alabama. But since they can hire guys like Saban who are recruiting nuts, and who are X and O aces, I doubt they ever do. Same with the other blueblood schools.

 

[jrc77]

It takes A LOT of lipstick to help an orange and purple pig.

 

[achilles#]

Originally posted by jrc77:
It takes A LOT of lipstick to help an orange and purple pig.

Sounds good to say that. But at the end of the day it is all about the four and five stars. If he gets them, it is by definition good.

(Assuming that translates to wins, as a number of analyses have shown it does; there is a really good graph someone posted from reddit or something, we are almost exactly on the trend line for performance exactly mirroring our recruiting; Clemson lagged a little. Neither school outperformed like some schools like Kansas State)

If whatever you are doing doesn't get them, it is by definition bad. There is nothing else. Well for some schools sure, but when you look at the numbers we aren't one with this staff.

 

[Irmo Cock]

Like SC State they'll be coming to their alum the Gov to bail them out.