Frank Martin fired

[Gamecockben1979]

Disagree with the initial statement. Boynton may not win like we want him to if hired. How would his hire be disastrous based on our history though. He would be like any other hire in my opinion. Give him 4-5 years. See what he would do with the program and move on if it doesn't work out. However, you are making the guy out to be the second coming of Darrin Horn before giving him a chance. Medved has done a good job at Colorado State, but he has only made the tournament one time. Same as Boynton. Both would be a crapshoot based on our history. So, you just a pick the guy that you think is best and hope it works out.

I’ll give Boynton the fact that his guys play hard and he’s in the middle of a tough situation with NCAA sanctions.

However he’s at a program with a lot more history than ours and despite a better than average recruiting class, a lot of floundering around .500. There were a lot of close games but many of those they came up short.

I think he would be a significant upgrade over Martin in recruiting but I’m not sold on other aspects. Just my 2 cents and I know you don’t share that opinion.

One tournament appearance and the highest conference finish was 5th. They would not have made it in the Covid year or this year even if the sanctions were removed. My guess is he has two years to dance or Oklahoma State would fire him.

 

[adcoop]

Just some facts to add to the debate:

Medved has an overall winning percentage of .542. He will make his first NCAA appearance with Colorado State this year. McMahon has a .699 winning percentage, a conference winning percentage of .750 with 3 tournament appearances. However, all of it has come in the OVC. Boynton has a .544 winning percentage. However, he was dropped into a program facing probation in what is arguably the toughest basketball conference in America. He has one NCAA tournament appearance. For reference, Martin has a .543 winning percentage at USC. So, unless you think the Martin tenure was disastrous, then none of these guys would be a horrible hire. I think all of them could at least do as well as Martin did here.

 

[adcoop]

I’ll give Boynton the fact that his guys play hard and he’s in the middle of a tough situation with NCAA sanctions.

However he’s at a program with a lot more history than ours and despite a better than average recruiting class, a lot of floundering around .500. There were a lot of close games but many of those they came up short.

I think he would be a significant upgrade over Martin in recruiting but I’m not sold on other aspects. Just my 2 cents and I know you don’t share that opinion.

One tournament appearance and the highest conference finish was 5th. They would not have made it in the Covid year or this year even if the sanctions were removed. My guess is he has two years to dance or Oklahoma State would fire him.

I have never said that Boynton was the second coming of Coach K. My opinion is that he hasn't fallen on his face after getting an opportunity in a tough situation. Yes, Oklahoma State has history, but their program was in shambles. Underwood had left them, they were facing probation, and most of the players left. One of the moments that sticks in my head is his team waxing us with 8 scholarship players and Martin screaming at Chris Silva like some maniac. He is, also, only 40 years old. A baby in the collegiate coaching ranks. He was thrown in the deep end of the pool, not exactly swimming, but isn't drowning either. Shown to be a resourceful recruiter and that is what I see as most important for us. Someone that is resourceful and want take a pompous attitude towards grassroots basketball and where the game is going. Finally, he has local ties, and I will just go on and say it that he would make history as the first African-American men's basketball coach hired here. Now, you may think that shouldn't matter and frankly it shouldn't, but it would give our program a jolt that it hasn't had in a while. Yea, he could come here and fail, but what the heck, the last four our five coaches that have come here ended up failing. I just think we should think local and with a mindset on how can we expand our reach because the way we are currently doing it isn't working.

 

[gamecock stock]

If he was cleared by the NCAA, I'd go after Sean Miller.

 

[gamecock stock]

Just some facts to add to the debate:

Medved has an overall winning percentage of .542. He will make his first NCAA appearance with Colorado State this year. McMahon has a .699 winning percentage, a conference winning percentage of .750 with 3 tournament appearances. However, all of it has come in the OVC. Boynton has a .544 winning percentage. However, he was dropped into a program facing probation in what is arguably the toughest basketball conference in America. He has one NCAA tournament appearance. For reference, Martin has a .543 winning percentage at USC. So, unless you think the Martin tenure was disastrous, then none of these guys would be a horrible hire. I think all of them could at least do as well as Martin did here.

The thing about winning in Conference "XYZ" is that you are also winning with Conference "XYZ" talent. It's all relative. Conference affiliation does not turn me off.

 

[Legendary Cock]

Some of these folks might have other options out there. South Carolina might not be the city on a hill they want to jump on right away.

Frank Martin has a lot of credibility in the coaching world. Some might say "If Frank couldn't get them to the tourney anywhere close to regularly, there might be things there that I need to say away from"

Frank may have credibility with the coaching world. But not with selection committees.

 

[Legendary Cock]

I wonder if he could find his way back home?

His buyout is less than a million, IIRC. If he's the guy, money would not be the issue.

 

[ForeUSC]

Some of these folks might have other options out there. South Carolina might not be the city on a hill they want to jump on right away.

Frank Martin has a lot of credibility in the coaching world. Some might say "If Frank couldn't get them to the tourney anywhere close to regularly, there might be things there that I need to say away from"

Frank obviously didnt and still doesn’t think or feel that way…

 

[Clevercock3]

Hire Dawn and let's see how it goes. If we are going to roll the dice on anyone mentioned she deserves the chance and we'd be the first to have a female Men's BB coach ever in history!!!

 

[Clevercock3]

Can Dawn get a raise and take over coaching duties of the Mens team? Assistant takes over her job.

That would be my choice if we are taking a chance and from all the names put forth I'd rather take the chance on her.

Not to mention we make history at the same time!

 

[cockymark]

No matter who we hire fans on this board will say it was a bad choice before they coach a game.

 

[Neanderthal]

I just hope the next coach, like Frank, inspires players to respect our national anthem and flag.

 

[adcoop]

I just hope the next coach, like Frank, inspires players to respect our national anthem and flag.

Where did that come from? If you anticipate drama, that is usually the time that you get it.

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

No matter who we hire fans on this board will say it was a bad choice before they coach a game.

Going out on a limb there?🙂

 

[Gamecockben1979]

No matter who we hire fans on this board will say it was a bad choice before they coach a game.

Hire Rick Pitino and I’ll tell you it’s an excellent hire. Gregg Marshall too. I could get behind BJ McKie.

Based on the hires in major sports how many good hires would you say we have made?

 

[adcoop]

Hire Rick Pitino and I’ll tell you it’s an excellent hire. Gregg Marshall too. I could get behind BJ McKie.

Based on the hires in major sports how many good hires would you say we have made?

I don't understand the BJ McKie support. He has a local ties, but he has no head coaching experience and very little as an assistant. That would be a total guess. You may as well give the job to me and hope it works out. I like that he has local ties and I think he could help in recruiting, but to say that he would be a good hire is based on nothing except that you may personally like the guy.

 

[adcoop]

No matter who we hire fans on this board will say it was a bad choice before they coach a game.

I am willing to give anyone we hire a chance. It's not like we have this successful program that needs to be maintained. We start from zero and see what he can do. If he can't get going in the right direction by the end of a 5 year recruiting cycle, next!!!!, on to the next one.

 

[Gamecockben1979]

I don't understand the BJ McKie support. He has a local ties, but he has no head coaching experience and very little as an assistant. That would be a total guess. You may as well give the job to me and hope it works out. I like that he has local ties and I think he could help in recruiting, but to say that he would be a good hire is based on nothing except that you may personally like the guy.

He has one less year of being an assistant than Mike Boynton had when he got the Oklahoma State gig. I don’t like Boynton because in a slew of close games, his team usually ends up on the losing end. End of game management needs to improve.

McKie has a jersey hanging from the rafters. He can sell kids on a pro career from here. He had one. He’s a local guy with a ton of ties to the state. No he doesn’t have head coaching experience, but every great head coach started out with no experience. Heck if it wasn’t for Oklahoma State, Mike Boynton wouldn’t have any head coaching experience either.

My first preference would be a HR hire like Gregg Marshall, Rick Pitino or Sean Miller. If we don’t go that route, BJ McKie would energize the fan base. He has experience under Steve Forbes, who by all accounts is a pretty solid coach. He played under Fogler. BJ McKie has been around some solid coaching in his day.

 

[adcoop]

He has one less year of being an assistant than Mike Boynton had when he got the Oklahoma State gig. I don’t like Boynton because in a slew of close games, his team usually ends up on the losing end. End of game management needs to improve.

McKie has a jersey hanging from the rafters. He can sell kids on a pro career from here. He had one. He’s a local guy with a ton of ties to the state. No he doesn’t have head coaching experience, but every great head coach started out with no experience. Heck if it wasn’t for Oklahoma State, Mike Boynton wouldn’t have any head coaching experience either.

My first preference would be a HR hire like Gregg Marshall, Rick Pitino or Sean Miller. If we don’t go that route, BJ McKie would energize the fan base. He has experience under Steve Forbes, who by all accounts is a pretty solid coach. He played under Fogler. BJ McKie has been around some solid coaching in his day.

Your first paragraph is sort of my point. I didn't think Boynton was qualified when he got the Oklahoma State job either. However, he got the job and, as I said in a previous post, he has been resourceful and shown to at least be a competent, high D-1 level coach. We would be going through similar issues with McKie as game management takes experience. So, basically you would prefer someone like Boynton as a rookie coach over seeing him coach for a while and seeing where he needs to improve. Also, Mckie played professionally, but not in the NBA. For kids coming up that's the bar. You are not going to get far in these living rooms touting your German League career. There was, also, an NBA TV documentary on the North Charleston Low Gators (The old D-League) years back and I was not impressed how he treated Alex English as his coach back then. That was years ago and I am sure he has matured, but how he treated English wasn't cool at all.

Both of us are aware of Boynton's record. The difference is in how we evaluate it. You see him as a coach floundering at .500. I see him as a coach able to get to .500 despite being woefully inexperienced. I see what he has done so far as his floor. It is probably a moot point though as Oklahoma State is touting the fact that they have finished in the Top 5 of the Big 12 in consecutive years for the first time since 2015. All indications are that they are pleased with him there.

 

[Gamecockben1979]

Your first paragraph is sort of my point. I didn't think Boynton was qualified when he got the Oklahoma State job either. However, he got the job and, as I said in a previous post, he has been resourceful and shown to at least be a competent, high D-1 level coach. We would be going through similar issues with McKie as game management takes experience. So, basically you would prefer someone like Boynton as a rookie coach over seeing him coach for a while and seeing where he needs to improve. Also, Mckie played professionally, but not in the NBA. For kids coming up that's the bar. You are not going to get far in these living rooms touting your German League career. There was, also, an NBA TV documentary on the North Charleston Low Gators (The old D-League) years back and I was not impressed how he treated Alex English as his coach back then. That was years ago and I am sure he has matured, but how he treated English wasn't cool at all.

Both of us are aware of Boynton's record. The difference is in how we evaluate it. You see him as a coach floundering at .500. I see him as a coach able to get to .500 despite being woefully inexperienced. I see what he has done so far as his floor. It is probably a moot point though as Oklahoma State is touting the fact that they have finished in the Top 5 of the Big 12 in consecutive years for the first time since 2015. All indications are that they are pleased with him there.

We could debate the McKie vs Boynton argument all night, but the reality is Boynton will not be our next coach. And really this has nothing to do with his coaching ability but the fact that he currently has a $13.5 million buyout from Oklahoma State. I think we can agree there is no way Ray Tanner attaches Will Muschamp money to Mike Boynton.

 

[Gamecockben1979]

I also think it’s worth noting I’m seeing a lot of former basketball players hitting up social media in support of BJ McKie in the same way former football players were hitting social media to rally for Shane Beamer before he was hired. I’m not saying it matters, but I don’t see the same outpouring of support of former players for Boynton.

 

[Cybercock]

Rick Pitino....smdh