Gregg Marshall and Frank Martin
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I don't have a dog in this Marshall vs Martin debate, but yours is a completely unfair comparison on every level. It would be more fair to compare Marshall's 53-47 record his first 3 years at Witchita St. That's not so different than FM's first 3 here. However that isn't fair unless one could compare strength of schedule at the time.
Wichita St record the 3 years before Gregg Marshall. 65-33.
USC record the 3 years before Frank Martin 39-53.
Seems one took over a better program than the other. Coach before Marshall at Wichita St hired away by a bigger school. Coach before Martin at USC, fired. Why not present the whole story instead of the Marshall lovers version.
USC record the 3 years before Frank Martin 39-53.
Seems one took over a better program than the other. Coach before Marshall at Wichita St hired away by a bigger school. Coach before Martin at USC, fired. Why not present the whole story instead of the Marshall lovers version.
Frank Martin enjoys many advantages that Gregg Marshall does not have--major conference affiliation, modern arena, endless TV coverage, bigger recruiting budget, state's flagship university, etc.
Gregg Marshall's third season at WSU: 25-10 (12-6)
Frank Martin's third season at USC: 17-16 (6-12)
Greg Marshall is at a program that is known for having success in basketball. USC doesn't have that recent success in basketball. Witchita St is just like Tulsa. These are 2 programs where a young coach can get immediate success and then get a higher profile job. Besides Frank Martin arrived when the cupboard was bare at USC.
Except that the ___ is a visibly easier conference. Still not a fair comparison. Yes, Martin may have some advantages, such as a larger budget, better facilities, and more exposure, but he also has the disadvantage of playing in a much more difficult league. Then you throw in the fact that he inherited a club that was probably in the bottom 15% or so nationally and had to build completely from scratch, while Marshall started with a team in much better shape.
Yes, I think Marshall is a good coach, possibly a great, possibly better than Martin (and there aren't many who can say that), but to compare Marshall's first three years to Martin's first three is completely and totally unfair.
Whicita St plays in a 10,000 plus seat arena that has undergone a $25M renovation paid for by Charles Koch. Wichita St has 14,000 plus students so they are not some small school. Because of the schools aerospace engineering program and the National Institute for Aviation Research being on campus they have a multitude of private planes at their disposal. Therefore, the team always flys on one of those planes to away games, never on a chartered plane like USC. In addition, Marshall and his assistants can use those planes for recruiting visits. With no football program Marshall has stated in the past the administration basically gives them what they want. You want to keep comparing advantages?
Re: That is a long gone missed opportunity.....not going
to happen.....like Judas second guessing taking the thirty piece of silver.
It is quite obvious that some boosters, including some whom frequent this board, were instrumental in blowing the Marshall deal twice because you are about to get the full dose of venom for opening this discussion.
So duck......some people have been bombed mercilessly for just asking for the details of the decision-making involved in choosing Horn over Marshall so really duck.
to happen.....like Judas second guessing taking the thirty piece of silver.
It is quite obvious that some boosters, including some whom frequent this board, were instrumental in blowing the Marshall deal twice because you are about to get the full dose of venom for opening this discussion.
So duck......some people have been bombed mercilessly for just asking for the details of the decision-making involved in choosing Horn over Marshall so really duck.
Matin gets at lest 5 years
He took over a real bad program and has done ok. He is a point guard away from a tournY bid and he may have found his guy. Marshall would have struggled here too but I admit hes the one i hoped to coach the cocks.
He took over a real bad program and has done ok. He is a point guard away from a tournY bid and he may have found his guy. Marshall would have struggled here too but I admit hes the one i hoped to coach the cocks.
The other part of this debate that no one has discussed is that Kansas is a basketball state. Kids grow up there dreaming of being basketball stars and the University's there all put a primary emphasis on basketball. South Carolina as a state is focused on football.
Ultimately, this comparison is not fair to Martin (yet) and I'm happy with the improvement he has shown. I support him and believe he will get it done here. The real comparison should be between Marshall and Darrin Horn. I'm a Marshall fan and truly believe he'd have gotten it done here, but the opportunity to hire him was 6 years ago. If he's interested in coming here after Martin, I'd love to see that but for now every Marshall post is irrelevant. He's going to get a big payday from someone, if he chooses to leave Wichita State, and he deserves it. For now though, and maybe forever, that check won't be from USC. Instead, we spent the money buying out Horn's ridiculous contract.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Ultimately, this comparison is not fair to Martin (yet) and I'm happy with the improvement he has shown. I support him and believe he will get it done here. The real comparison should be between Marshall and Darrin Horn. I'm a Marshall fan and truly believe he'd have gotten it done here, but the opportunity to hire him was 6 years ago. If he's interested in coming here after Martin, I'd love to see that but for now every Marshall post is irrelevant. He's going to get a big payday from someone, if he chooses to leave Wichita State, and he deserves it. For now though, and maybe forever, that check won't be from USC. Instead, we spent the money buying out Horn's ridiculous contract.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Re: That is a long gone missed opportunity.....not going
As stated in another thread about Marshall, more than one AD at USC passed on the opportunity to hire Marshall. Not only passed, but never even considered him a candidate for the position. The rumor has always been that the AD' s were told that Marshall should not be hired and the BOT would not approve his hiring. True or not, there is a reason Marshall was passed on by multiple AD's.
As stated in another thread about Marshall, more than one AD at USC passed on the opportunity to hire Marshall. Not only passed, but never even considered him a candidate for the position. The rumor has always been that the AD' s were told that Marshall should not be hired and the BOT would not approve his hiring. True or not, there is a reason Marshall was passed on by multiple AD's.
It's only right if you compare Marshall's first 3 seasons with Frank's first 3 seasons. Yours is a disingenuous comparison.
Re: That is a long gone missed opportunity.....not going
Marshall was the reason why he wasn't hired at USC. At the time he was asking for too much money. How could you justify paying a coach 2 million or more in basketball coming from a small conference.
Marshall was the reason why he wasn't hired at USC. At the time he was asking for too much money. How could you justify paying a coach 2 million or more in basketball coming from a small conference.
I suspect that most here (including me) looked at his success and would have liked for Marshall to take over our BB program. The inescapable fact is that we did not hire him, for whatever reason. The continued and merciless bringing up his name as if it is a certainty that we would be world beaters if he had come is both useless and counterproductive of our current BB program. I am frankly sick of it and find it offensive to Frank Martin and our team. The team and coach we have is the team and coach we have. What is it about that that you don't understand.
It's like you keep bobbing your head in the water after all the apples are gone. Get over it.
It's like you keep bobbing your head in the water after all the apples are gone. Get over it.
Bottom line, Marshall is a native son and a Gamecock, not to mention a better coach. I will support Martin and I certainly hope he does well. However, he is an outsider compared to Marshall. I know what it felt like growing up loving the Gamecocks as does Marshall.
Re: That is a long gone missed opportunity.....not going
And, despite resounding success at his kid-major job, he has not really gotten serious consideration from ANY major program. Some of the morons pushing this have no understanding of what goes into a big hire, they just compare two completely unrelated records and act like it proves a point... HORN was considered a very good hire at the time, Martin was a walk off Home Run of a hire! Marshall would have taken 3-4 years to build this program as well, and there is no guarantee he would recruit the players we need to get there. Frank has recruiting connections and clout and has landed some good talent, we just need to see what he can do with it. Thus far, improvements have been made in baby steps. over the next two years I expect leaps and bounds!
Re: That is a long gone missed opportunity.....not going
That's why Bama has publicly stated they want to pay him $3M+. If you want a proven winner (who is the greatest coach in the histories of two different schools) - you have to pay up.
He makes $2M a year at Wichita. If you want a guy to come, gotta give him a raise (unless he's unpopular with his fanbase and administration and he's looking to get out).
That's why Bama has publicly stated they want to pay him $3M+. If you want a proven winner (who is the greatest coach in the histories of two different schools) - you have to pay up.
Re: That is a long gone missed opportunity.....not going
If we are going to beg people to come back then I say "Come on back Jesus and pick up John Wayne on your way."
If we are going to beg people to come back then I say "Come on back Jesus and pick up John Wayne on your way."
Re: That is a long gone missed opportunity.....not going
Nonsense...and that is a post hire rumor circulated to justify what was a no-brainer decision which inexplicably the school failed to make....
ESPN spent about 2 mins on the SC job because they knew that it was Marshall....no need to discuss other possibilities on a done deal.
And pardon me for saying...but how about because that is their job and why they are paid the big bucks also....you read the tea leaves to find those type coaches....and for heavens sakes, Marshall was a SC guy.
Thirty years ago...the Duke Ad chose a barely above .500 nobody from Army to take over the Duke program....despite the laughing from UNC and every other school in the ACC.
Nonsense...and that is a post hire rumor circulated to justify what was a no-brainer decision which inexplicably the school failed to make....
ESPN spent about 2 mins on the SC job because they knew that it was Marshall....no need to discuss other possibilities on a done deal.
And pardon me for saying...but how about because that is their job and why they are paid the big bucks also....you read the tea leaves to find those type coaches....and for heavens sakes, Marshall was a SC guy.
Thirty years ago...the Duke Ad chose a barely above .500 nobody from Army to take over the Duke program....despite the laughing from UNC and every other school in the ACC.
How about we stop the hypotheticals and get behind the vision that frank Martin has for our basketball program. He is recruiting solid players, his current players love him, and we have improved our record every year he has been here. Trust the process, we are headed in the right direction.
I'm sure Frank would love to have their schedule...they played one ranked team all year. I would love to play the likes of Missu St., Drake, Ill. St...etc. The comparison is not fair. Plus he gets to recruit in probably the best basketball state in the country.
My God. Where to begin? First, Gregg Marshall beat Indiana and Kansas over the weekend. Frank Martin has not had that many quality wins in three seasons here.
Second, Kansans like basketball, but the State of Kansas produces very little basketball talent. The Shockers only have 3 Kansans on their 15-man roster--same as the Jayhawks.
Strickly speaking regular season...and BTW they got beat by the ranked teams they played in the reg. season. And if you think Indiana and Kansas were good teams then you failed to watch them play during the course of the year. I don't really give a rats ass who coaches this team, as long as there is improvement...which there is IMO. And comparing the two teams in historical context is like comparing Clemson and Duke...The bottom line is Marshall will NEVER coach this team and to talk about it every year and just fruitless. It's like asking why the Football hasn't gone after Saban. If USC had their schedule I would go out on a limb and say they would be a 20 game winner this year.
Marshall took over a better program? Do you naysayers have any clue how bad his roster was his first two years there? Some talk about schedule. Have you seen some of the teams we've lost to in Martin's first 3 years? Plus, it's not like the SEC is world beaters. The whole schedule thing is a joke.
What is the point of your thread? What ax do you have to grind with whom and why? The Marshall thing is so old and done so many times that it serves absolutely NO purpose, other than to cause divisive discourse… It contributes nothing positive to the discussion of Gamecock athletics…
If you are so pissed of about this whole thing, I suggest that you go knock on Coach Tanner's door and tell him how he absolutely HAS to right the egregious wrong that has been perpetrated on you…
Or you could simply grow up and accept the reality that no matter how much you whine, it won't change the decisions that were made…
GEEEZ!! Enough beating this LONG dead horse already!!!
This post was edited on 3/24 10:00 AM by TriumphCock
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