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Muschamp from a Gator's perspective

I heard this as well. Regardless though, nothing he did at Florida is relevant at USC. He's a smart man and I'm sure he learned some valuable lessons at the expense of UF. One thing he has here that he may not have had at UF, is a leader like Ray Tanner who understands coaching and is an excellent manager of people.

We're in for the ride now, so I'm not sure what the purpose of this post is.
I believe this has some to do with it. The fact that gator fans know he could greatly improve the way he does things but it was learning on the fly at the expense of UF. I'm sure there is some resentment there by their fans but they've gotta move on. If Mclwain has a subpar season in 2016 then they will have much bigger issues to worry about.
 
FLORIDA psh! This gig will be nothing like that. He will win here, He will contend for SEC championship, He will win a SEC championship, He will be in the College Football Playoff selection and he will have a chance to win a National Championship. I'm not saying all this will happen next year but it wont be 10yrs either! Man as you guys can tell i love me some BOOM but i have been talking this for a while now, way before he was even mentioned as a candidate for our next HC and i honestly think this guy and this staff will do some things at this school that has never been done before. He looks and acts like he owns this team and he never looked and acted like that in Florida, to much nose'n from other folks etc... He is chomping at the BIT to get this thing going and man i'm telling you it is going to be fun!!!!! Tater fans and tater tot fans you all know that BOOM is coming and he is bringing HELL with him! We didn't hire that old washed up, Big name, out of retirement, has-been or name that nobody knew coach like you thought we were so set down, shut up and learn to live with it cause it's the best thing going today!!!!! WOOOOOOO!
 
We won't know how Boom handles the team until we play some football, but it's important to look at mitigating factors when trying to guess if things will be different at USC from UF. There are a number of factors that suggest it will be different - injuries, AD not playing coach, Boom learning from prior mistakes. All of that does factor into the equation.

We also can safely bet the house that Ray Tanner asked the prospective coach to explain what he will do differently from his time at UF. He was obviously very impressed with that answer. It would be a no brainer question and the answer he will be held to.
 
FLORIDA psh! This gig will be nothing like that. He will win here, He will contend for SEC championship, He will win a SEC championship, He will be in the College Football Playoff selection and he will have a chance to win a National Championship. I'm not saying all this will happen next year but it wont be 10yrs either! Man as you guys can tell i love me some BOOM but i have been talking this for a while now, way before he was even mentioned as a candidate for our next HC and i honestly think this guy and this staff will do some things at this school that has never been done before. He looks and acts like he owns this team and he never looked and acted like that in Florida, to much nose'n from other folks etc... He is chomping at the BIT to get this thing going and man i'm telling you it is going to be fun!!!!! Tater fans and tater tot fans you all know that BOOM is coming and he is bringing HELL with him! We didn't hire that old washed up, Big name, out of retirement, has-been or name that nobody knew coach like you thought we were so set down, shut up and learn to live with it cause it's the best thing going today!!!!! WOOOOOOO!

Get a grip Clemmer.
 
Foley is an absolute joke of an AD. He could have had Spurrier back when Spurrier contacted him, but instead, he thanked Spurrier for calling and told him he would interview him along with the other UF candidates. Once Muschamp was hired your AD dictated his first two OCs, including the abysmal Charlie Weiss. That is a level of stupid that sets the bar pretty high.

No, I think we will keep Coach Tanner. You keep that dude Foley.

In the end it would not surprise me at all if Tanner made the best FB coaching hire in the SEC east over the past five years.
 
I understand the optimism. Honestly I do. I just don't think Muschamp is going to change. In contrast, I think he is on a mission to recreate everything as it was so he can prove everyone wrong.

Only time will tell.
coach spurrier thinks muschamp is a great coach. i think florida fans really hope muschamp fails. if he succeeds at carolina, that is going to make florida fans and administration look like idiots for firing him too early
 
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Foley is an absolute joke of an AD. He could have had Spurrier back when Spurrier contacted him, but instead, he thanked Spurrier for calling and told him he would interview him along with the other UF candidates. Once Muschamp was hired your AD dictated his first two OCs, including the abysmal Charlie Weiss. That is a level of stupid that sets the bar pretty high.

No, I think we will keep Coach Tanner. You keep that dude Foley.

In the end it would not surprise me at all if Tanner made the best FB coaching hire in the SEC east over the past five years.

i think tanner did make the best hire. we win 8 next year, and muschamp is coach of the year. thats my prediction. and to tell you the truth, we might win more.
 
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That's what i'm talking about, They fired him way to early and he was not the problem, Anyway............ i think we got one hell of a coach, One like we have been wanting and i also believe that he will do things at SOUTH CAROLINA that has never been done period! i believe this thing will explode in a few years and i mean EXPLODE!
 
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I am a Florida resident and saw and heard alot about Florida football. I think Muscahamp was told by Fl President to clean up the Urban mess first, so winning football was second. I believe he succeeded there; there were not 50 plus arrests. Evidently Muscahamp's defensive scheme must be pretty good because the current DC did not change the scheme or even the terminology. It looks so far that he learned something because some of his first SC recruits are 4 star offensive players. I saw many passes that Jeff Driskell threw right in the hands of receivers dropped and Harris came in and put up a prayer that was caught for a touchdown. I believe App State beat Michigan in much the same fashion. Sometimes smaller schools today have less requirements to get into school so they get a few good players that could play for any school. He was not my first choice but so far I am impressed with his staff and his recruits. I remember Lou Holtz always said the recruiting class looks good on paper time will tell! Clemson, Ga and many other schools used SOS's age against USC and it cost us dearly. Will can always pick up the phone and call SOS, or SOS's wife who is a Gamecock for life!
 
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Your write up makes some good points, but I have to disagree with the one about the cupboard not being bare. Several weeks ago I posted that the cupboard was, indeed, bare and pointed to the fact that in Urban's last year and Muschamp's first, there were a total of 3 All-SEC players on the Florida squad. This was the next to lowest in the Conference (Ole Miss had 2). USC had 9, if I remember correctly. Vandy had more than Florida. My point is that the talent was not very good when Muschamp got there. If ultimately 18 players were drafted, maybe Muschamp's coaching had something to do with that. Anyway, I like his energy and recruiting. He has the benefit of the doubt with me until I have reason to believe otherwise.
 
Coach Billiam Muschamp was only hired at UF (and to a lesser extent) Allbarn for one reason, to sabotage the Dawgs chief rival(s) from within. Now I know he took a dig at UGA at his presser here (who wouldn't?) but that's still his school. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. Liking the hire more than a few weeks ago, now CWM, if you read this board, and you know you do, let CKR and BMac run the O, and sit back and enjoy
 
In all honesty, when I posted this I assumed it was so long that very few people would actually read or reply. I certainly did not expect over 4000 views and 90 replies. I appreciate you guys taking the time to share your thoughts, even the ones that are accusatory or telling me to leave.

Lots to reply to here.......

A few people have accused me of being a tater. I had never heard that name before, but it is clear you are referring to Clemson. Why tater? Was Clemson originally an agricultural college?

I am definitely not a Clemson supporter. Lived in Gainesville my whole life, graduated from UF, still live in Gainesville today. The local paper in Gainesville is the Sun. I post regularly on the Sun's Gatorsports forum as Gator2222. You are welcome to read my posts there if you want to confirm my identity. I am sure you will be able to identify my long winded writing style.

A few people have pondered that I am here to sow discontent or otherwise harm or confuse the Gamecock fanbase. A few have stated that I am trying to ingratiate myself to people and then somehow lead them astray.

I came to this board simply to read what you guys thought about Muschamp. Then I thought someone might be interested in my opinion and I offered it. I simply like talking sports. I love politics as well for what it's worth. In particular, I enjoy trading ideas with those that disagree with me in a civil manner. Talking with someone that agrees with you simply confirms your beliefs. Talking with someone that challenges your beliefs gives you the opportunity to expand your knowledge base, test the validity of your ideas and find the weaknesses in your arguments. In my opinion, it is the only way to grow intellectually. My only motive is selfish. I simply want to find good sports related conversation.

I was told I sound like the Gator Spurrier bashers that used to come around.

That to me is absolutely mind blowing. I have honestly never heard a Gator fan bash Spurrier. That is practically sacrilegious and would quite possibly start a physical confrontation here in Gainesville. The man is absolutely revered.

People have stated that I claim to like South Carolina but am trying to harm it in some way.

See my above statements about Spurrier. When he went to South Carolina a lot of people in Gainesville started following and supporting the Gamecocks. I have never met a Gator fan that expressed any animosity towards USC.

People have claimed that I am jealous or resentful in some way that USC now has Muschamp.

Again, all you have to do is visit the Gatorsports forums and find my posts (Gator2222) and you will know for sure that this is not true.

I posted that Muschamp only recruited 4 OL in his first 2 years at UF. Others have pointed out that there were tons of OL on the roster when he got there, he got a 5 star, he recruited 14 his last 2 years.....

Looking at a roster and counting the number of players at any one position is misleading at best. If you pull up a 2015 UF roster and count the number of QB's you will see that we had 8 of them. However, Will Grier and Treon Harris were the only two actual QB's. The others were either walkons, ineligible or scholarship players that were simply brought in to run the practice squads. They will never actually play in a game even as a backup.

When McElwain arrived he had 6 real scholarship linemen. That is what Muschamp left him. We could not run a real spring game because we did not have enough OL. During the season we regularly played 3 true freshmen on the OL. It is practically unheard of in the SEC for OL to play as true freshmen. When that happens it is either because the freshman is fabulously talented or there has been a failure at recruiting.

I was asked why we played the same QB, Treon Harris, that Muschamp played and why we did not score against FSU.

We only had two true QB's on the roster when McElwain arrived. Will Grier and Treon harris. Treon is less than 5'11' and does not possess the physical attributes to play QB in the SEC. He was highly recruited out of high school as a DB. However, Roper and Muschamp were the only coaches that agreed to sign him as a QB and he signed with UF. Grier made poor decisions and got suspended. Treon was the only thing we had left. There was no depth on the roster. We had other QB's, but they all transferred away after experiencing the offensive mess at UF. They went on to post impressive numbers at their next school.

It was pointed out, repeatedly, that many people out there support Muschamp.

It is true. There are a lot of people that know a lot more about football than I do that still publicly state that they fully support Muschamp. The administration at UF, including Foley, still support Muschamp. He is reportedly a very likable guy. The experts thought he would do well at UF and they were wrong. After his first news conference at UF I thought he would struggle. I acknowledge though that there are many out there that think I am wrong.

I have heard he is our coach and we support him.

That is as it should be. I though he would fail, but I still supported him at UF until the trend became obvious. I am not asking or trying to convince anyone not to support him. I am simply sharing an opinion and conversation.

I have been asked to leave.

I enjoy a good conversation with reasonable people. In turn, I try my best to be reasonable at all times. I do not personally attack other posters, I treat other teams with respect and do not castigate them and I try to make sure I am respectful at all times. If there are those here that enjoy an honest yet respectful conversation, I am happy to engage. For those who find it aggravating that I disagree with them, might I suggest a cold beverage and simply skipping my posts or putting me on ignore. I won't be offended, I would rather be ignored than be found offensive.

I was told that I came here to tell you that everything is going to hell in a handbasket.

I can see how you could interpret my OP that way. I was simply detailing how he failed at UF. It is my opinion that he has every intention of doing things the same at USC. However, that is just my opinion and it could be wrong. Only time will tell.

Many people have stated that Muschamp has learned from his experience at UF.

I agree that he is saying all the right things. I also agree that one would think he has learned. However, the actions that I see are him putting all the same pieces back together. In my opinion, it does not matter what style of offense is implemented, it will still be run by the same Muschamp offensive philosophy. This is the area that I feel has the highest probability of me being wrong. If I am wrong and Muschamp allows Roper full reign, then the odds of him succeeding this time around go up drastically.

I was told that I have a Gator superiority complex and am puking it on this site.

LOl, that is quite a visual. I really like that sentence. The last seven years have been brutal and humiliating for us Gators. I don't feel that I have a superiority complex. However, people with a complex rarely ever are able to see it themselves. I might suggest though, that your post just might reflect an inferiority complex on your part. Either way, I apologize if I puked on your site.

I was told I made no sense when I said Muschamp had no plan

Running clock and running the ball is not an offensive plan. Spurrier had an offense. Monty Kiffin had a defense at Tampa. Pete Carroll had an offense at USC. There are a lot of examples. Muschamp had an idea of what he wanted his team to resemble. There is a very distinct difference.

This thread started with a well-rehearsed windbag rant that's nothing but an intentional chant designed to fuel Gamecock angst and I ain't playing 'tarbaby' with no BS interloper.

This is by far my favorite comment. This poster managed to get angst, interloper and a tarbaby reference all in one sentence. That is impressive in many ways. I assure you though, I have no desire to see angst or to interlope. I am just looking for good conversation. Any time this whole thread took on my part was completely worth it just to see that one misguided yet beautiful sentence.

By the way, I do know that SOS supports Muschamp. I just disagree with the HBC on that one. It happens.

I was asked about jorts.

I have never actually owned a pair of jean shorts. I do however, have a lot of friends here in Gainesville that wear them. It is kind of a thing at times.

So the OP was reading from a script that someone put together to make UF fans feel good about firing Muschamp....and failed to do their own research to verify the information. Sounds like an uninformed UF fan...or more likely a Clemson fan who will swallow anything that has an orange tint to it.

Every word of the post was mine. It is not hard to recognize my writing style. I addressed the OL numbers and Clemson claims earlier.

There are a number of factors that suggest it will be different - injuries, AD not playing coach, Boom learning from prior mistakes. All of that does factor into the equation.

All good points.

Foley is an absolute joke of an AD. He could have had Spurrier back when Spurrier contacted him, but instead, he thanked Spurrier for calling and told him he would interview him along with the other UF candidates.

The version of the story we heard here in Gainesville is similar. Apparently, Spurrier and Foley had quite a falling out which prompted Spurrier to leave. After the NFL Spurrier was ready to let bygones be bygones. He called Foley about the job and Foley told him to send in a resume. Spurrier told him to walk down the hall and look at the trophy case. That was his resume. Many of us have never forgiven Foley for not bringing the HBC back. That is exactly why quite a few Gators started following USC. You guys actually do have a pretty big support section down here in gainesville.

Burghcock wrote a rebuttal to the cupboard issue.....

Good point, but I see it differently. I think we had talent, but they were not put in a position to succeed by the coaching staff. In my opinion, we did not have All-SEC players because of coaches, not talent.
 
Well, I admire your energy. I don't have a clue as to whether Muschamp will succeed or fail. I will say, however, that he and his on board coaches seem to be recruiting well. Seriously, he will probably have greater success next year than Gamecocks did this year.

The key, as I pointed out, elsewhere is improve in years 1, 2, and 3. By year 3 USC should at least be in contention for the SEC East and go to a decent bowl. If not Coach Boom will be on the hot seat in year 4
 
One glaring difference, having nothing to do with the original post but a LOT to do with his ability to succeed is that at Florida his first priority as assigned by the University President was to "clean this mess up." I can only assume that meant getting rid of the Arron Hernandez type criminal element. He won't face that sort of challenge at South Carolina. He also won't have his AD tell him his Offensive Coordinator is a moron named Charlie Weiss.
 
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One glaring difference, having nothing to do with the original post but a LOT to do with his ability to succeed is that at Florida his first priority as assigned by the University President was to "clean this mess up." I can only assume that meant getting rid of the Arron Hernandez type criminal element. He won't face that sort of challenge at South Carolina. He also won't have his AD tell him his Offensive Coordinator is a moron named Charlie Weiss.
Yeah, the guy with as many Super Bowl rings as we had wins this year is a moron. I'm shocked by the level of brainwash within our fanbase.
 
Londrieme, all this Muschamp Gator days history stats that you gave us from post one until now was blanket bomb to all the Gamecock nation by the pundits in the media. What did you expect to gain from rehashing these point I'm not clear on. This will be my invite to you to clear the air, What do you want Gamecock nation to do with all your stats from the Muschamp years at Florida?
How does this information change anything now?

I have openly stated Will was not my first choice, but I do like the hire. He is a Gamecock now, not a Gator, so unless you can offer something better than what I have seen so far you being on this site has no value. All you have contributed is old stats. So give me something that can move the dialog forward. I am sure that some of us can't wait for your next novel. Spurs Up
 
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stagedoor71....

I think this season went worse for USC than it should have based on talent alone. Spurrier was obviously at a point where he was just not as capable anymore. I admire him for stepping down and not forcing the administration to fire him. I think he honestly felt the team would rally once he stepped away.

It is sad to see your heroes in that light. I will always remember him as the guy that turned things around for the Gators. He was a beast for you guys too there for a while.

Anyway, I do not see any way that USC does not drastically improve next season. There is just too much talent present for a 3 win season. USC will win a minimum of 5 games next season. The season after that they will almost certainly make a bowl game. Muschamp's ability to recruit and scheme a defense alone will get you there.
 
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Cockfight#.....

I do not expect it to do anything or make a difference in any way. I have repeatedly stated that I am simply utilizing these message boards for the purpose they were created.

I am just seeking sports related conversation. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. Conversation does not always need a purpose.
 
Cockfight#.....

My original post was unsolicited. Every post since then, including to you, has been in reply to a statement made to me or a question asked of me.
 
Foley is an absolute joke of an AD. He could have had Spurrier back when Spurrier contacted him, but instead, he thanked Spurrier for calling and told him he would interview him along with the other UF candidates. Once Muschamp was hired your AD dictated his first two OCs, including the abysmal Charlie Weiss. That is a level of stupid that sets the bar pretty high.

No, I think we will keep Coach Tanner. You keep that dude Foley.

In the end it would not surprise me at all if Tanner made the best FB coaching hire in the SEC east over the past five years.
Foley is such an idiot. He goes out and hires Urban Meyer. Meyer then wins 2 National Championships while at Florida. How many National Championships did Steve win during his tenure at South Carolina???
 
I think this season went worse for USC than it should have based on talent alone. Spurrier was obviously at a point where he was just not as capable anymore. I admire him for stepping down and not forcing the administration to fire him. I think he honestly felt the team would rally once he stepped away.

It is sad to see your heroes in that light. I will always remember him as the guy that turned things around for the Gators. he was a beast for you guys too there for a while.

Anyway, I do not see any way that USC does not drastically improve next season. There is just too much talent present for a 3 win season. USC will win a minimum of 5 games next season. The season after that they will almost certainly make a bowl game. Muschamp's ability to recruit and scheme a defense alone will get you there.
Now this is the type of post that I can have dialog with you on. Spurrier can still coach, his downfall at SC was not replacing quality coaches with the same quality or better. In 2011 we lost our running back coach to Tenn. and Steve replaced him with Sands IMHO this was a downgrade. We also lost Beamer, Lawing, and Johnson who were replaced by Jr, Adams, and Ward IMHO big downgrade. Then came Hoke and the Tampa 2 defense enough said. This is what my beef with Steve would be not his coaching. I would have a hard time with anyone who is not thankful for SOS time at USC. Jerri and Steve has and still does good things for USC. Spurs Up
 
Foley is such an idiot. He goes out and hires Urban Meyer. Meyer then wins 2 National Championships while at Florida. How many National Championships did Steve win during his tenure at South Carolina???
Don't forget Billy Donovan who also won multiple NCs. What an idiot.
 
I am not as familiar with your assistants as you are.

I do know Spurrier pretty well though. I had a relationship with two of his secretaries and spent some time in his offices while he was in Gainesville. He is a really likable guy despite what some people will have you believe.

Anyway, the man was a perfectionist. Details were important to him. he understood that it is the little things you need to worry about. Take care of the little things and the big things fall in place. I think he has probably reached that age where it is just more difficult to stay on top of all the little details.

He was never very good at delegating. For the most part he stayed out of the D coordinators way, but he went through a lot of them.

I hope he stays retired. I could not bare to watch him come back and fail.

Truly one of the greats. He achieved at a high level without babying players or bending rules.
 
tbGameCock.....

McElwain actually had to change our spring game this year and run more of a scrimmage type game because we did not have enough OL to field two teams. Muschamp really hates using scholarships on OL.

During the regular season the Gators started 3 different true freshmen on the offensive line. These were players that McElwain recruited at the last minute that came in and beat out the guys that were signed by Muschamp. Arguably our biggest playmaker on offense was the true freshman WR Callaway. He was the one that took a pass 63 yards on 4th and 14 to beat Tennessee.

In addition, our QB Will Grier was actually showing improvement and growth in the half season he played. When Grier was suspended we were forced to go back to Treon Harris.

Treon is a player from Miami that was highly recruited as a DB and was not considering UF. When Muschamp hired Roper he immediately went after Treon as a QB. We were the only school willing to let him play QB and he signed. Treon is listed at 5'11", but is probably shorter and I can not count the number of balls that get knocked out of the air at the line of scrimmage. He consistently underthrows his receivers because he just does not have the arm to make the throws. He just simply does not have the physical attributes necessary to be an effective QB in the SEC. Yet, McElwain still found a way to get to Atlanta with Treon under center. Muschamp was never able to win a title of any kind.

McElwain just signed the #2 ranked QB, the #1 ranked kicker (another serious position of need) and McElwain's first true UF recruiting class is ranked in the top 10 by everyone and is number one on at least one site.

McElwain has a proven offensive system that has won NC's. He also does not make excuses. When we lost recently he just came right out and said that we looked horrible. He supported Treon, but acknowledged that he was not playing at the necessary level. Then he stated that the coaches needed to do a better job putting him in a position to succeed.

He has a plan, he develops players, he recruits well, he stays out of the way of the defensive coordinator, he holds himself and everyone else accountable. This year the Gators had fewer penalty yards than any team Muschamp fielded. We did not have a single offensive lineman in a sustained block of our own player (If you don't know what I am talking about google it, embarrassing). I could be wrong, but I think he will achieve at a high level. Only time will tell how high his ceiling may be.

By the way, I did not like Muschamp after his very first press conference at UF. i was convinced he would fail.

Fair points. So you would agree Muschamp knows how to recruit and coach defense...? I'm not asking whether you like him or not because I think we've established you don't.

So it's fair to say, if WM learned the importance of a good offense by his shortcomings at UF, and learns to stay out of the O coordinator's way just like McElwain has learned to stay out of the D coordinator's way at UF in your words, then Muschamp has a chance at success. You gotta admit, his leftover defense helped your cause a great deal. Trust me, we need defensive help in the worst way.
 
Muschamp is one of the best at recruiting, developing, scheming and coaching defense. Your defenses will improve drastically.

If he stays out of the way of the OC and does not impose his philosophy, then I think Roper is very capable as well.

In that situation, I think it would still take some time to get top notch offensive recruits because they would need to see the change to believe it. However, once it became apparent that the old offensive way was gone, they would start coming.

The only hurdle then would be Muschamp's ability to be a true leader. He has to learn how to be a person that can set the right culture, keep a team unified and motivated.

The tirades on the sideline honestly hurt. It helps set a culture where a lack of focus and control are acceptable. It has lost games for us. In my opinion, he really needs to grow past that and become a person that influences focus. Saban is a good example of this.

His teams also have a tendancy to have an offense versus defense mentality. If you watch the press conference after the Ga Southern game Muschamp alludes to it. It became a real issue. He identifies so heavily with the defense that it almost becomes "these are my boys and those guys over there keep costing us games". That is very simplified, but you get my point.

To your point though, if he does what you asked about, then he is 90% of the way to being the great coach many people see in him.
 
Yeah, the guy with as many Super Bowl rings as we had wins this year is a moron. I'm shocked by the level of brainwash within our fanbase.
How has Weis done in college? He was at the easiest school at which to recruit and he failed miserably. Coaching in the NFL is different than in college...and he was coaching under a future HOF head coach.
 
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How has Weis done in college? He was at the easiest school at which to recruit and he failed miserably. Coaching in the NFL is different than in college...and he was coaching under a future HOF head coach.
Weis only coached one year in college as an OC and he was a miserable failure. In the NFL he was wildly successful winning 3 Super Bowls.

Brent Pease was successful at Boise State but was also a miserable failure at Florida.

Kurt Roper was wildly successful at Duke(relative to their history) but was also a miserable failure at Florida.


Commonalities? All were great OCs when they coached under great head coaches. The only place any of them failed was under Muschamp at Florida. Coincidence? Only if you're delusional.
 
Weis only coached one year in college as an OC and he was a miserable failure. In the NFL he was wildly successful winning 3 Super Bowls.

Brent Pease was successful at Boise State but was also a miserable failure at Florida.

Kurt Roper was wildly successful at Duke(relative to their history) but was also a miserable failure at Florida.


Commonalities? All were great OCs when they coached under great head coaches. The only place any of them failed was under Muschamp at Florida. Coincidence? Only if you're delusional.
Weis was HC at Notre Dame and coached the offense...no doubt about that. Remember the "schematic advantage" claims and he was calling the plays from the sidelines the whole time he was there. Pease's success at Boise State was long suspect because of what he inherited from the prior OC...basically he was not expected to be at BSU much longer. Roper helped developed and completely ran Cutcliffe's offense...from Cutcliffe's own words. Also look at the statistical improvement he made in only one year as OC at UF...wouldn't consider that a "miserable failure" unless you are completely delusional.
 
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Weis was HC at Notre Dame and coached the offense...no doubt about that. Remember the "schematic advantage" claims and he was calling the plays from the sidelines the whole time he was there. Pease's success at Boise State was long suspect because of what he inherited from the prior OC...basically he was not expected to be at BSU much longer. Roper helped developed and completely ran Cutcliffe's offense...from Cutcliffe's own words. Also look at the statistical improvement he made in only one year as OC at UF...wouldn't consider that a "miserable failure" unless you are completely delusional.
Weis failed as a HC but was successful as a coordinator except for a one year stint at Florida. Sound familiar? Kinda like Muschamp failing at Florida and then failing at Auburn this year.

But I'm sure Weis has learned his lesson. Maybe he can take over as HC after Muschamp. Could use the same logic used in this hiring.
 
Weis failed as a HC but was successful as a coordinator except for a one year stint at Florida. Sound familiar? Kinda like Muschamp failing at Florida and then failing at Auburn this year.

But I'm sure Weis has learned his lesson. Maybe he can take over as HC after Muschamp. Could use the same logic used in this hiring.
Weis already failed in his second chance as HC.
 
Full disclosure.......this is very long and detailed, skip it if you don;t want a long read

I have always felt an affinity for the Gamecocks. As a Gator fan I have always rooted for Spurrier no matter where he was. I also selfishly want every team on our schedule, especially the SEC East teams, to be strong national contenders. The tougher our schedule the more it helps us get recognition.


That is why I was so dismayed when South Carolina hired Muschamp. I understand why some think it is a good hire. He fooled a lot of Gators as well. I also understand why many Gamecock fans are trying to be positive regardless of what they actually think. I get it. I just think it is misguided.

I have heard a lot of people claim that Muschamp will become a great coach. He has supporters. They can never tell you what exactly it is though that will transform him into a good coach. They just say that he is enthusiastic and likable.

My dog is enthusiastic and likeable, that will never make her a good football coach. On the other hand, I can explain exactly how Muschamp failed at Florida.


Developing a Plan for Success

When Spurrier arrived at Florida he immediately announced that he had no idea who his starting QB was going to be, but he would win the SEC player of the year award. Then he took a 4th string QB named Shane Matthews and turned him into the SEC player of the year.

Spurrier in his prime had developed a proven system that he knew would work. He had a plan.

When Muschamp arrived he simply stated that we would be a blue collar team that worked hard, ran downhill and played a line of scrimmage game. He had no plan, he just had a vague idea of what he wanted his team to look like.


Recruiting

To run downhill and win a line of scrimmage game you need OL. Lots of OL. In the first two years that Muschamp was the head coach at UF he recruited a total of 4 OL. In contrast, during that same time period he recruited 11 players for the secondary which happens to be the position he takes great pride in coaching.

Florida is considered one of the best recruiting grounds for skill players in the country. UF has a built in natural advantage with it's location. Every UF coach has recruited well. However, Muschamp could not land top ranked offensive skill position players on a consistent basis.

It was obvious that Muschamp was not going to field an offense with a passing dimension. Wide receivers were blockers and quarterbacks were just there to hand the ball off.

He tends to get highly rated recruiting classes, but he stocks up on defensive players and completely neglects the offense.


Offense

In his time at Florida he changed offensive coordinators as often as most people change underwear. The offense did not work under any of them. The truly curious thing though is that the offense always looked exactly the same regardless of who the OC was.

Our offense ran the ball on first down a very high percentage of the time. Muschamp made it clear over and over that he wanted a hard nosed running team. While he was the head coach at UF he said, on more than one occasion, that when you throw the ball only three things can happen and two of them are bad.

When your offense has clear, well defined tendencies it is easy to game plan a defense. Stack the box on first down and create second and long. Our offensive line was undisciplined, but they also appeared to lack talent (more on that later). It is hard for even highly talented lines to open holes when the defense knows what you are doing. Muschamp's offense was always ranked near the bottom nationally.

The only offensive statistic that Muschamp continually referenced was time of possession. He truly cared about winning time of possession. His philosophy is that the purpose of the offense is to run clock so the defense can stay rested and win the game.

There were multiple occasions when Florida would find itself losing the game and in possession of the ball in good field position with only a couple of minutes left in the first half. Muschamp was very consistent in that situation. He would run the clock out. He purposefully made the decision to not try to score points.

It is not embellishment to say that Muschamp hates offense.


Defense

Muschamp recruited, fielded and game planned very good defenses while at UF. They were some of the most talented defenses I have ever personally seen at UF. However, they completely lacked discipline. It was a common thing for the defense to get a critical third or fourth down stop and then commit a stupid dead ball personal foul. That is basically a defensive turnover. They gave the ball back to the other team.

For me, it was easy to see how this was repeatedly happening. In any organization the person at the top sets a culture. Everyone else gets permissions from that person on acceptable behavior within the organization.

Muschamp was always out of control on the sidelines. The man is seemingly incapable of controlling his emotions. It is a detriment to the team. I have witnessed him ignoring the game and violently screaming at the referees over something that happened several plays ago. He loses all perspective and the ability to focus on what is currently happening.

Then his defense commits an emotional dead ball personal foul and gives the ball back to the other team. Muschamp sets a culture where it is acceptable to lose self control and focus.

I honestly think there is a small chance that Muschamp's coaching career will one day end with him punching a referee.


Responsibility

There is no doubt that Muschamp is a hard worker. This section is not about that type of responsibility. In order to evolve and grow you must accept responsibility for the choices, actions and results in your life. Everyone makes errors, the truly successful use that experience to adapt. Basically, there are two types of coaches, those who achieve at a high level and those who have really good reasons why they do not. Muschamp falls in the latter category.

When Muschamp started losing he constantly told anyone that would listen that when he arrived the cupboard was bare. He was eager to blame the previous regime for his current lack of success.

However, the numbers do not back up that claim. Muschamp inherited 18 players that would eventually be drafted by the NFL. Three more Gators that played for Muschamp are expected to be drafted this year and more will be next year as well. There are a lot of college coaches that would love to have that many future NFL players on their roster.

Yet even with all that talent Muschamp could only manage 28 wins. His 2013 4-8 record was the worst at UF since the Gators last had a losing record in 1979. That year Muschamp found a new excuse - injuries.

Actually, injuries plagued every Muschamp team at Florida. A long list of injured players was a mainstay during his tenure. Many wondered if it had anything to do with the revamped strength and conditioning program led by newly hired assistant coach Jeff Dillman. There is no proof of any connection, but the unusually large number of injuries sustained over a long period of time might suggest a need to reevaluate the strength and conditioning program. As per usual with Muschamp, he stubbornly stayed the course. If nothing else, he is very loyal. He has hired Dillman again at South Carolina.

Even with all of the injuries, no one saw the loss to Georgia Southern coming. Florida had one of the most highly rated defenses in the nation. The game was being played at the Swamp. Florida had never in it's entire history lost to a lower tier football program.

In addition, lower tier programs are not allowed to have the 85 scholarship players upper division teams can sign. Florida had 20 more scholarship players than their lowly opponent. To top it off, Georgia Southern had also experienced an inordinate number of injuries. They were actually missing more injured starters than UF. Georgia Southern had to start a third string OL due to injuries. I am not sure what level of talent a third string Ga Southern player possesses, but I am fairly certain it would not earn you a scholarship at UF.

In that game Georgia Southern only attempted three passes and they did not complete any. Not one completion. Our defensive genius head coach was playing with a stacked deck. He had every conceivable advantage and he lost.

Georgia Southern ran for 429 yards averaging just under 8 yards per carry. They had 3 different running backs with a long run over 40 yards. This even though we only allowed them 57 offensive plays. Georgia Southern turned the ball over twice and the Gators did not have a single turnover. The Gators were only flagged for 2 penalties the entire game. Still, Muschamp found a way to lose.

This is the same Georgia Southern team that lost to Wofford, Samford, Furman and got blown out by Appalachian State. It is inexplicable.

When you have already lost the confidence of the fan base and then you lose to Georgia Southern in that fashion, you come to the press conference and admit that what you are doing is simply not working. You just come clean and announce that you are going to have to reevaluate, learn from the experience and change how you do things.

Not Muschamp. Muschamp showed his usual lack of composure and yelled about midlines. He actually tried to convince everyone that Georgia Southern's offense is just unstoppable. He explained that they won by utilizing midlines and I quote "midlines take the talent out of the equation". He never bothered to explain why, given his knowledge of magical midlines, we did not use them to help our offense. Apparently, Georgia Southern has a monopoly on midlines.

Muschamp is the very definition of stubborn. He remains convinced that he did everything absolutely right at UF and it was forces outside his control that caused his downfall. He would rather lose using his dysfunctional system than admit he is wrong and change.

I honestly believe that he brought so many of his ex-Gator assistant coaches to South Carolina because he wants to prove that he can win without changing anything.


Developing Players

As stated previously, Muschamp had a lot of future NFL talent on his teams. He excelled at developing defensive talent. His record with offensive talent is not as impressive.

Muschamp had no intention of developing a high powered offense. He was going to win games with his defense. In his mind, he just needed an offense that would not turn the ball over and his defense would do everything else. That meant minimal passing and lots of punting for field position.

Jacoby Brissett was the QB under Muschamp for a period of time. In 2 seasons at UF he threw for 455 yards with 3 TDs, 4 INTs and 5 sacks. He transferred to NC State and promptly became the starter (after the obligatory one year transfer rule). In 2 seasons at NC State he has thrown for 5,054 yards with 42 TDs, 9 INTs and 61 sacks.

High School Gatorade National Player of the Year Jeff Driskell played so poorly in Muschamp's system he was almost universally disliked by Florida fans. In 4 seasons at UF (medical redshirt) he threw for 3,411 yards with 23 TDs, 20 Ints and 55 sacks. In his one season after transferring to La Tech he has thrown for 4,033 yards with 27 TDs, 8 Ints and 19 sacks.

Both are very capable QB's that could not find any success in Muschamp's system. That pattern holds true for many offensive players that have found success once they were free of Muschamp's offensive philosophy.

Constantly changing offensive coordinators made no difference because no matter who was in the position, they had to run Muschamp's offense. Minimal passing, minimal risk, run clock and let the defense win the game. There was very little room to actually develop offensive players.



The one bright spot is that you can always count on Muschamp to have really good reasons why his teams fail to achieve.

Your post is absolutely absurd and you must be insane and have multiple obsessive compulsive abnormalities to take so much time to write it.

The Gators were an 8-5 team in Muschamp's final season since 1 game was cancelled and not rescheduled. The offense of that team was better than your current coach's offense this season.

Your AD pulled the trigger too early on a young head coach with no head coaching experience when he entered our league.

Who was your offensive line coach during the Muschamp regime @ Florida? He has a proven SEC caliber offensive line coach with us.


I am confused as to why some think Foley micromanaged or forced things on Muschamp. I have never heard that opinion here in Gainesville. How did that theory come about?
 
Your post is absolutely absurd and you must be insane and have multiple obsessive compulsive abnormalities to take so much time to write it.
Who was your offensive line coach during the Muschamp regime @ Florida? He has a proven SEC caliber offensive line coach with us.

Obviously, I am not the OP, but there were actually 3 OL Coaches during WM's time at FL.
1. Frank Verducci
2. Tim Davis
3. Mike Summers

Verducci had too much NFL in him IMHO. The other 2 weren't bad coaches, and were decent recruiters.
 
Superior7....

I appreciate the way you avoid hyperbole. LOL.

I am certain that I do not suffer from hypergraphia, but I do appreciate your concern.

As I have explained a few times previously, the post was almost entirely composed before I stumbled upon this forum and adapted it for use here.

If you are familiar with the Georgia Southern game you would not be so fast to assume that the Gators would have won against Idaho. Either way, since that game was not played, it can not be counted as a victory. We did not play USC, Nebraska, Miami or around 109 other teams either. If only we could count victories in games we did not play then no coach would ever have a poor record.

We will simply have to disagree on the state of the offense in Muschamp's final season at UF in comparison to McElwain's first. When McElwain had Grier there was marked improvement. This despite the fact that he was forced to start many true freshman due to the lack of depth.

When Grier was suspended and we were forced to return to Treon the offense suffered greatly. You can read more about Treon in my previous posts.

In my opinion, the AD pulled the trigger a year too late, but many differ on that opinion.

In 2011 the OL coach was Frank Verducci, 2012 - 2013 Tim Davis, 2014 Mike Summers.

They were working with a number of players that are playing in the NFL today, but did not see much success at UF under Muschamp. If you want to be amused, Google Florida Gators Offense Blocking Each Other, truly embarrassing.

As I have stated many times in follow up posts you have not read, it is just my opinion. Only time will tell.
 
In all honesty, when I posted this I assumed it was so long that very few people would actually read or reply. I certainly did not expect over 4000 views and 90 replies. I appreciate you guys taking the time to share your thoughts, even the ones that are accusatory or telling me to leave.

Lots to reply to here.......

A few people have accused me of being a tater. I had never heard that name before, but it is clear you are referring to Clemson. Why tater? Was Clemson originally an agricultural college?

I am definitely not a Clemson supporter. Lived in Gainesville my whole life, graduated from UF, still live in Gainesville today. The local paper in Gainesville is the Sun. I post regularly on the Sun's Gatorsports forum as Gator2222. You are welcome to read my posts there if you want to confirm my identity. I am sure you will be able to identify my long winded writing style.

A few people have pondered that I am here to sow discontent or otherwise harm or confuse the Gamecock fanbase. A few have stated that I am trying to ingratiate myself to people and then somehow lead them astray.

I came to this board simply to read what you guys thought about Muschamp. Then I thought someone might be interested in my opinion and I offered it. I simply like talking sports. I love politics as well for what it's worth. In particular, I enjoy trading ideas with those that disagree with me in a civil manner. Talking with someone that agrees with you simply confirms your beliefs. Talking with someone that challenges your beliefs gives you the opportunity to expand your knowledge base, test the validity of your ideas and find the weaknesses in your arguments. In my opinion, it is the only way to grow intellectually. My only motive is selfish. I simply want to find good sports related conversation.

I was told I sound like the Gator Spurrier bashers that used to come around.

That to me is absolutely mind blowing. I have honestly never heard a Gator fan bash Spurrier. That is practically sacrilegious and would quite possibly start a physical confrontation here in Gainesville. The man is absolutely revered.

People have stated that I claim to like South Carolina but am trying to harm it in some way.

See my above statements about Spurrier. When he went to South Carolina a lot of people in Gainesville started following and supporting the Gamecocks. I have never met a Gator fan that expressed any animosity towards USC.

People have claimed that I am jealous or resentful in some way that USC now has Muschamp.

Again, all you have to do is visit the Gatorsports forums and find my posts (Gator2222) and you will know for sure that this is not true.

I posted that Muschamp only recruited 4 OL in his first 2 years at UF. Others have pointed out that there were tons of OL on the roster when he got there, he got a 5 star, he recruited 14 his last 2 years.....

Looking at a roster and counting the number of players at any one position is misleading at best. If you pull up a 2015 UF roster and count the number of QB's you will see that we had 8 of them. However, Will Grier and Treon Harris were the only two actual QB's. The others were either walkons, ineligible or scholarship players that were simply brought in to run the practice squads. They will never actually play in a game even as a backup.

When McElwain arrived he had 6 real scholarship linemen. That is what Muschamp left him. We could not run a real spring game because we did not have enough OL. During the season we regularly played 3 true freshmen on the OL. It is practically unheard of in the SEC for OL to play as true freshmen. When that happens it is either because the freshman is fabulously talented or there has been a failure at recruiting.

I was asked why we played the same QB, Treon Harris, that Muschamp played and why we did not score against FSU.

We only had two true QB's on the roster when McElwain arrived. Will Grier and Treon harris. Treon is less than 5'11' and does not possess the physical attributes to play QB in the SEC. He was highly recruited out of high school as a DB. However, Roper and Muschamp were the only coaches that agreed to sign him as a QB and he signed with UF. Grier made poor decisions and got suspended. Treon was the only thing we had left. There was no depth on the roster. We had other QB's, but they all transferred away after experiencing the offensive mess at UF. They went on to post impressive numbers at their next school.

It was pointed out, repeatedly, that many people out there support Muschamp.

It is true. There are a lot of people that know a lot more about football than I do that still publicly state that they fully support Muschamp. The administration at UF, including Foley, still support Muschamp. He is reportedly a very likable guy. The experts thought he would do well at UF and they were wrong. After his first news conference at UF I thought he would struggle. I acknowledge though that there are many out there that think I am wrong.

I have heard he is our coach and we support him.

That is as it should be. I though he would fail, but I still supported him at UF until the trend became obvious. I am not asking or trying to convince anyone not to support him. I am simply sharing an opinion and conversation.

I have been asked to leave.

I enjoy a good conversation with reasonable people. In turn, I try my best to be reasonable at all times. I do not personally attack other posters, I treat other teams with respect and do not castigate them and I try to make sure I am respectful at all times. If there are those here that enjoy an honest yet respectful conversation, I am happy to engage. For those who find it aggravating that I disagree with them, might I suggest a cold beverage and simply skipping my posts or putting me on ignore. I won't be offended, I would rather be ignored than be found offensive.

I was told that I came here to tell you that everything is going to hell in a handbasket.

I can see how you could interpret my OP that way. I was simply detailing how he failed at UF. It is my opinion that he has every intention of doing things the same at USC. However, that is just my opinion and it could be wrong. Only time will tell.

Many people have stated that Muschamp has learned from his experience at UF.

I agree that he is saying all the right things. I also agree that one would think he has learned. However, the actions that I see are him putting all the same pieces back together. In my opinion, it does not matter what style of offense is implemented, it will still be run by the same Muschamp offensive philosophy. This is the area that I feel has the highest probability of me being wrong. If I am wrong and Muschamp allows Roper full reign, then the odds of him succeeding this time around go up drastically.

I was told that I have a Gator superiority complex and am puking it on this site.

LOl, that is quite a visual. I really like that sentence. The last seven years have been brutal and humiliating for us Gators. I don't feel that I have a superiority complex. However, people with a complex rarely ever are able to see it themselves. I might suggest though, that your post just might reflect an inferiority complex on your part. Either way, I apologize if I puked on your site.

I was told I made no sense when I said Muschamp had no plan

Running clock and running the ball is not an offensive plan. Spurrier had an offense. Monty Kiffin had a defense at Tampa. Pete Carroll had an offense at USC. There are a lot of examples. Muschamp had an idea of what he wanted his team to resemble. There is a very distinct difference.

This thread started with a well-rehearsed windbag rant that's nothing but an intentional chant designed to fuel Gamecock angst and I ain't playing 'tarbaby' with no BS interloper.

This is by far my favorite comment. This poster managed to get angst, interloper and a tarbaby reference all in one sentence. That is impressive in many ways. I assure you though, I have no desire to see angst or to interlope. I am just looking for good conversation. Any time this whole thread took on my part was completely worth it just to see that one misguided yet beautiful sentence.

By the way, I do know that SOS supports Muschamp. I just disagree with the HBC on that one. It happens.

I was asked about jorts.

I have never actually owned a pair of jean shorts. I do however, have a lot of friends here in Gainesville that wear them. It is kind of a thing at times.

So the OP was reading from a script that someone put together to make UF fans feel good about firing Muschamp....and failed to do their own research to verify the information. Sounds like an uninformed UF fan...or more likely a Clemson fan who will swallow anything that has an orange tint to it.

Every word of the post was mine. It is not hard to recognize my writing style. I addressed the OL numbers and Clemson claims earlier.

There are a number of factors that suggest it will be different - injuries, AD not playing coach, Boom learning from prior mistakes. All of that does factor into the equation.

All good points.

Foley is an absolute joke of an AD. He could have had Spurrier back when Spurrier contacted him, but instead, he thanked Spurrier for calling and told him he would interview him along with the other UF candidates.

The version of the story we heard here in Gainesville is similar. Apparently, Spurrier and Foley had quite a falling out which prompted Spurrier to leave. After the NFL Spurrier was ready to let bygones be bygones. He called Foley about the job and Foley told him to send in a resume. Spurrier told him to walk down the hall and look at the trophy case. That was his resume. Many of us have never forgiven Foley for not bringing the HBC back. That is exactly why quite a few Gators started following USC. You guys actually do have a pretty big support section down here in gainesville.

Burghcock wrote a rebuttal to the cupboard issue.....

Good point, but I see it differently. I think we had talent, but they were not put in a position to succeed by the coaching staff. In my opinion, we did not have All-SEC players because of coaches, not talent.
 


I've gotten confused the OP protests so much - am I on the right thread? I'm sure it's just me but the fella sounds like Atlanta Cock to me. Actually, he sounds more like a cast member on 'The Housewives of Atlanta'. I can imagine he spent the afternoon online searching for a used Range Rover.
What a putz.
 
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Ladramamine,
Have you ever heard of nick saban? I suppose you would say he doesn't or has never had a plan. Playing defense, running the football, and using up clock is considered by many to be a plan.
Now let's talk about your coach. What has he done? Well, he won 10 with muschamp's player's, in a season where vandy was the only team in the division to retain their coach. Struggled mightily down the stretch to score points, and limped in to the sec champ game. His best days as the coach at Florida are behind him. Hell he even had to get boom's defensive players to teach your new defensive coaches what a good defense is. Now that is comical.
 
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