My OP-ED RE: Clemson name change.

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

I felt it necessary to write an Op-Ed relative to my previous statements and opinions concerning the thread: Clemson name change. I posted my Op-Ed in the original thread but I don't know if many people read the comment.

I’ve been thinking about this thread all day and have done some serious critical thinking about the topic. I have said in other posts that I appreciate all poster’s points of view, etc and that I change my mind from time to time because some posters bring different views, prospective, etc. to a particular topic. And that is what I love about GamecockCentral is the fact one gets a lot of good information on a number of topics. I don’t want to be considered so bull headed that I never change my mind.
So as I was thinking about this thread today, I tried to put it on a personal level and look at it from a different point of view and try to understand why Clemson University should not be required to change their name.

I was born near the end of WWII and when I was born my mother’s baby brother was missing in action in the US Army somewhere in Europe. So when I was born she named me after him. Well, he was later found along with many of his fellow soldiers that had been captured with him. And that was good. But as it turned out he returned home after the war and just turned out to be a horrible person and I will just leave it at that.

However, I bear part of his name but I am nothing like him, in fact, I am 180 degrees from being the kind of person he was.

And I hope no one holds it against me because of the things he did and the fact I was named after him.

Hence, regardless of what Thomas G Clemson did in the 1800s Clemson University, today is nothing like Thomas G Clemson. Hence the name Clemson should not be looked upon as racist. Again, Clemson does many great things for all minorities; the institution today does not represent what Thomas G Clemson stood for in the 1800s.

With that being said, I still think the Social Justice Warriors will come after Clemson to try and force them to change the name of the university. Whether or not they will be successful remains to be seen. I’ve seen so much in the last few months and years, things I thought I would never see and as we know “never say never”. However, I don’t think Clemson should be required to change the name of the university. There is no rightful justification for that type of action.

 

[IrishTiger89]

Do you think the Carolina’s should change their name because they were named after Charles I who was the English King that passed the law that allowed the slave trade between Africa and the Colonies to begin?

 

[NaturalGC7]

It's not who they are, but who they act like they are.

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

Do you think the Carolina’s should change their name because they were named after Charles I who was the English King that passed the law that allowed the slave trade between Africa and the Colonies to begin?

That is a decision that was made in another country and could not have any bearing on our state of SC today. Because the same thing could be said of NC. The name Charles I is not Carolina, there is a huge difference.

 

[jonesz21]

Do you think the Carolina’s should change their name because they were named after Charles I who was the English King that passed the law that allowed the slave trade between Africa and the Colonies to begin?

I think Africa should change their name since the Africans are the root cause of slavery in America. If Africans hadn’t caught and brought we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Boycott africa and burn that muther down.

 

[IrishTiger89]

How about Charleston? Charles II did a lot to lay the groundwork for what would become the Colonial slave trade.

 

[jonesz21]

How about Charleston? Charles II did a lot to lay the groundwork for what would become the Colonial slave trade.

Yes. And while we at it change the names of all the black colleges that’s racist having them

 

[Millertime6289]

I felt it necessary to write an Op-Ed relative to my previous statements and opinions concerning the thread: Clemson name change. I posted my Op-Ed in the original thread but I don't know if many people read the comment.

I’ve been thinking about this thread all day and have done some serious critical thinking about the topic. I have said in other posts that I appreciate all poster’s points of view, etc and that I change my mind from time to time because some posters bring different views, prospective, etc. to a particular topic. And that is what I love about GamecockCentral is the fact one gets a lot of good information on a number of topics. I don’t want to be considered so bull headed that I never change my mind.
So as I was thinking about this thread today, I tried to put it on a personal level and look at it from a different point of view and try to understand why Clemson University should not be required to change their name.

I was born near the end of WWII and when I was born my mother’s baby brother was missing in action in the US Army somewhere in Europe. So when I was born she named me after him. Well, he was later found along with many of his fellow soldiers that had been captured with him. And that was good. But as it turned out he returned home after the war and just turned out to be a horrible person and I will just leave it at that.

However, I bear part of his name but I am nothing like him, in fact, I am 180 degrees from being the kind of person he was.

And I hope no one holds it against me because of the things he did and the fact I was named after him.

Hence, regardless of what Thomas G Clemson did in the 1800s Clemson University, today is nothing like Thomas G Clemson. Hence the name Clemson should not be looked upon as racist. Again, Clemson does many great things for all minorities; the institution today does not represent what Thomas G Clemson stood for in the 1800s.

With that being said, I still think the Social Justice Warriors will come after Clemson to try and force them to change the name of the university. Whether or not they will be successful remains to be seen. I’ve seen so much in the last few months and years, things I thought I would never see and as we know “never say never”. However, I don’t think Clemson should be required to change the name of the university. There is no rightful justification for that type of action.

The War definitely changed his outlook on life.

 

[jonesz21]

How about Charleston? Charles II did a lot to lay the groundwork for what would become the Colonial slave trade.

We could name the state “Columbia”. Got a nice ring to it

 

[Gamecock Lifer]

So... There was a thread on this, you thought your take is all that mattered but it was not getting enough attention, so you reposted it In it’s own thread?

Sorry... I don’t see a strong similarity between the instances you highlighted. Your Mother was not naming a State funded public University supposed to be there to benefit and educate any citizen who may want to go to school there. She was naming you. 99% of the people you have met in your life have no clue who you were named after or what kind of dirt bag he may have been. We all know who Clemson and Tillman were and what they stood for and honoring them through state sponsored schools, statues and buildings is problematic at least, and proof of the State funding of and perpetuation of systemic racism to those most sensitive to the subject.

 

[TN-Gamecock]

They took down my thread about changing the name of James F. Byrnes High School which is one of the most prominent high schools in the entire south.

I can mention Byrnes High School in Tennessee and folks know about the football program. It's a shame to see a few wanting to change the name of one of the best brands in the state ever...

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

The War definitely changed his outlook on life.

Well, I think my uncle was bad before he when into the war. But he was so young that most people didn't really know him that well before the war. I think he was born bad to the bone but it was not manifested to everyone until he returned after WWII.

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

So... There was a thread on this, you thought your take is all that mattered but it was not getting enough attention, so you reposted it In it’s own thread?

Sorry... I don’t see a strong similarity between the instances you highlighted. Your Mother was not naming a State funded public University supposed to be there to benefit and educate any citizen who may want to go to school there. She was naming you. 99% of the people you have met in your life have no clue who you were named after or what kind of dirt bag he may have been. We all know who Clemson and Tillman were and what they stood for and honoring them through state sponsored schools, statues and buildings is problematic at least, and proof of the State funding of and perpetuation of systemic racism to those most sensitive to the subject.

No, I did not think that "my take" was all that mattered. When I posted my Op-Ed it was buried in a thread and I simply wanted everyone to see how I changed my opinion.

To your 2nd point. There is a strong parallel between my illustrations in that Clemson today does not represent the believes of Thomas G Clemson. Nor, do I represent the way my uncle was before his death.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

It's one thing to change the name of a consumer product, team mascot, or in the case of Clemson one of the halls. It'a another matter all together to change the name of the institution.
I have yet to hear any "serious discussion" about renaming Clemson. With that said,
I'm fairly confident Clemson has a very savvy and capable PR department.

"We realize that our founder was a flawed individual whose values do not reflect our current values here at Clemson. At this point 2-3 minority individuals are brought out who have excelled in academics and in the professional life, and state if it wasnt for Clemson.... "We will continue to pursue our goals of excellence in our communities and in the classroom to make Clemson an institution we can always be proud of.
Thank you form coming. Applause
Situation defused. Carry on.

 

[Elgringo]

You’ll never win over the left because they are children. They call you names and throw tantrums, but lack the mental capacity to hold a dialogue. Your best bet is to tell them all to go to hell.

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

It's one thing to change the name of a consumer product, team mascot, or in the case of Clemson one of the halls. It'a another matter all together to change the name of the institution.
I have yet to hear any "serious discussion" about renaming Clemson. With that said,
I'm fairly confident Clemson has a very savvy and capable PR department.

"We realize that our founder was a flawed individual whose values do not reflect our current values here at Clemson. At this point 2-3 minority individuals are brought out who have excelled in academics and in the professional life, and state if it wasnt for Clemson.... "We will continue to pursue our goals of excellence in our communities and in the classroom to make Clemson an institution we can always be proud of.
Thank you form coming. Applause
Situation defused. Carry on.

No, it isn't defused. Clemson refused to rename Tillman Hall for a long time. But the building got it's name changed. Again, I think it would be wrong to change the name of Clemson but as I said earlier in the cancel culture world we live in today, never say never. It won't happen right away but it could happen sometime in the future.

 

[importcock]

You’ll never win over the left because they are children. They call you names and throw tantrums, but lack the mental capacity to hold a dialogue. Your best bet is to tell them all to go to hell.

Or as the old saying goes: " Don't try to argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience".

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

No, it isn't defused. Clemson refused to rename Tillman Hall for a long time. But the building got it's name changed. Again, I think it would be wrong to change the name of Clemson but as I said earlier in the cancel culture world we live in today, never say never. It won't happen right away but it could happen sometime in the future.

You do realize that part of the narrative was a parody of a so far non existent event.
I fail to see your fear that Clemson University will change it's name.
The attached is a press release from Clemson addressing name changes. I assure you I did not read this before my original post.

https://newsstand.clemson.edu/media...ity Board of,Calhoun Honors College since 1982.

The Clemson University Board of Trustees today approved changing the name of the University’s Honors College to the Clemson University Honors College, effective immediately. The college has been named the Calhoun Honors College since 1982.
(Notice the name change keeps the Clemson name)
AND HERE IT IS:
“Clemson University has a long-celebrated history of tradition and excellence, but we must recognize there are central figures in Clemson’s history whose ideals, beliefs and actions do not represent the university’s core values of respect and diversity,” said Chairman Smyth McKissick. “Today’s action by the Board acknowledges that now is the time to move forward together as a more unified Clemson Family in order to make our university stronger today and into the future.”

AND FINALLY:
The Board also adopted a resolution respectfully requesting the South Carolina General Assembly make a one-time exception to the state’s Heritage Act during the 2021 legislative session. This exception would give limited authority to the Board to restore Tillman Hall to its original name of the Main Building. The resolution further affirms that the Board will not be seeking any further exceptions from the Heritage Act beyond this request.

 

[ansoncock]

I felt it necessary to write an Op-Ed relative to my previous statements and opinions concerning the thread: Clemson name change. I posted my Op-Ed in the original thread but I don't know if many people read the comment.

I’ve been thinking about this thread all day and have done some serious critical thinking about the topic. I have said in other posts that I appreciate all poster’s points of view, etc and that I change my mind from time to time because some posters bring different views, prospective, etc. to a particular topic. And that is what I love about GamecockCentral is the fact one gets a lot of good information on a number of topics. I don’t want to be considered so bull headed that I never change my mind.
So as I was thinking about this thread today, I tried to put it on a personal level and look at it from a different point of view and try to understand why Clemson University should not be required to change their name.

I was born near the end of WWII and when I was born my mother’s baby brother was missing in action in the US Army somewhere in Europe. So when I was born she named me after him. Well, he was later found along with many of his fellow soldiers that had been captured with him. And that was good. But as it turned out he returned home after the war and just turned out to be a horrible person and I will just leave it at that.

However, I bear part of his name but I am nothing like him, in fact, I am 180 degrees from being the kind of person he was.

And I hope no one holds it against me because of the things he did and the fact I was named after him.

Hence, regardless of what Thomas G Clemson did in the 1800s Clemson University, today is nothing like Thomas G Clemson. Hence the name Clemson should not be looked upon as racist. Again, Clemson does many great things for all minorities; the institution today does not represent what Thomas G Clemson stood for in the 1800s.

With that being said, I still think the Social Justice Warriors will come after Clemson to try and force them to change the name of the university. Whether or not they will be successful remains to be seen. I’ve seen so much in the last few months and years, things I thought I would never see and as we know “never say never”. However, I don’t think Clemson should be required to change the name of the university. There is no rightful justification for that type of action.

From the way it looks right now the only way to stop Clemson beating us in football is for them to have a name change.

 

[midline]

One thing is for sure. Somebody needs to put a stop to the madness. Those on the left will find a way to try and change the name of everything as they find any way possible to be offended. And they are never satisfied. Make folks change one thing, and it is simply on to the next.

 

[ansoncock]

One thing is for sure. Somebody needs to put a stop to the madness. Those on the left will find a way to try and change the name of everything as they find any way possible to be offended. And they are never satisfied. Make folks change one thing, and it is simply on to the next.

These social justice warriors are not doing anything productive. A very nihilistic bunch.

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

From the way it looks right now the only way to stop Clemson beating us in football is for them to have a name change.

I thought about that. I had rather been beaten by SC A&M than Clemson.

 

[Gamecock Lifer]

No, I did not think that "my take" was all that mattered. When I posted my Op-Ed it was buried in a thread and I simply wanted everyone to see how I changed my opinion.

To your 2nd point. There is a strong parallel between my illustrations in that Clemson today does not represent the believes of Thomas G Clemson. Nor, do I represent the way my uncle was before his death.

Agree to disagree, the situation surrounding your name has no relevance to clemson’s name... and you basically just agreed with my first point.

 

[H8R]

You’ll never win over the left because they are children. They call you names and throw tantrums, but lack the mental capacity to hold a dialogue. Your best bet is to tell them all to go to hell.

So, what you are saying is Trump is actually part of the left.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

It’s possible to carry this too far. What if Blacks wanted to change their last names because They were named after their ancestors’ slave owners.

Need to take time to digest all this.

What's the big deal. If someone wants to change their name, fill out the paperwork and head down to the court clerk and file the forms.
Why would anyone care if someone wants to change their last name.

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

I thought about that. I had rather been beaten by SC A&M than Clemson.

Because that looks so much better than losing to a school that was played for a NC 4 out of the last 5 years and has won 2 of those. SMH

 

[Freddie.B.Cocky]

Because that looks so much better than losing to a school that was played for a NC 4 out of the last 5 years and has won 2 of those. SMH

Yeah, that's right! SMH!

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

I’m simply thinking of all the time and troubles and Money it could take for them To change their millions of written personal histories all over the world.

It's their time and their money, so again I don't care.

 

[GivEmDaSpurs]

Here is what is on the Clemson U webpage.

“Thomas Green Clemson (1807-1888)
The University’s founder and namesake, was a Philadelphia-born, European-educated engineer who married John C. Calhoun’s daughter, Anna, and settled at her family estate in South Carolina. Clemson was as complex as the times in which he lived: He was a diplomat, mining engineer and agriculturalist whose hobbies included music, art and the classics. He was also a Confederate officer and a plantation and slave owner. Clemson was a staunch advocate of agricultural education and was involved in the development of the Morrill Act, which established the land-grant college system. His diverse education led to his visionary bequest and philanthropy that established Clemson University in his last will and testament.”

I give them credit for not trying to hide the facts. The have a similar bio about Calhoun. Both go into great detail about their lives. While it is an ugly history on some levels, there was a lot of good as well. Clemson (the man) was not just a namesake but financially funded its origination.

I think that the name should stay as such. People have given some interesting ideas for a different name but a change of names definitely will not please everyone. In today’s time, there will be people offended one way or the other.

Final thought - Clemson U has done a lot of good. No need to erase that (other than their record against us in football ).

 

[mauze1]

We could name the state “Columbia”. Got a nice ring to it

Yes, and we could call the current Columbia, Columbia City. Sort of like Kansas City.

 

[TN-Gamecock]

Thomas Clemson gave the land, so in no way should anyone be allowed to change the name or the land should go back to his ancestors to be done with as they choose...