New football HC for the next 12-15 years
- Thread starter DeBoer31
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well im pretty sure you woulda been wrong with kirby smart coaching here...he has a much better and easier situation and its really kinda hard to not win 10 games a year or better at uga.... nobody was coming here and winning big in 4 yrs here...let me say that again..NOBODY
On this point here is my post from January 2020.
Fleck is a real possibility. I said the same thing - Fleck. Said this two years ago too. Now, he makes around $3 million. This is peanuts for us. We would have to offer him at least $6 million to make him move. He needs a solid 5 years to make this work. Here is my post from another thread (see below).
Fixing the Problem in Men's FB and BB
1. Transfer Tanner to Sports fundraising | Hire an AD with a business background, preferable a finance background who has an understanding and an appreciation for College sports.
2. Bite the bullet pay the buyouts for WM and FM
3. Hire a coach like P.J. Fleck for $6-7 Million for FB (contracts see below)
4. Hire a coach like Gregg Marshall for $6-7 Million
When you do this be careful with the contracts
1. 5 year contracts with built in raises based on performance (win %/division/SEC/BOWL (quality)/ NC/etc).
2. Extensions based on performance (add a year) at the end of each year.
3. Buyouts based on current salary *2.
4. Buyouts activate in at the end of the 5th year. This gives the coaches time to get the program on the right path. If the coach decides to leave he pays back Salary*2.
The contracts need to be refined but that is a basic outline.
61 SOSUSC, Jan 2, 2020
Fleck is a real possibility. I said the same thing - Fleck. Said this two years ago too. Now, he makes around $3 million. This is peanuts for us. We would have to offer him at least $6 million to make him move. He needs a solid 5 years to make this work. Here is my post from another thread (see below).
Fixing the Problem in Men's FB and BB
1. Transfer Tanner to Sports fundraising | Hire an AD with a business background, preferable a finance background who has an understanding and an appreciation for College sports.
2. Bite the bullet pay the buyouts for WM and FM
3. Hire a coach like P.J. Fleck for $6-7 Million for FB (contracts see below)
4. Hire a coach like Gregg Marshall for $6-7 Million
When you do this be careful with the contracts
1. 5 year contracts with built in raises based on performance (win %/division/SEC/BOWL (quality)/ NC/etc).
2. Extensions based on performance (add a year) at the end of each year.
3. Buyouts based on current salary *2.
4. Buyouts activate in at the end of the 5th year. This gives the coaches time to get the program on the right path. If the coach decides to leave he pays back Salary*2.
The contracts need to be refined but that is a basic outline.
61 SOSUSC, Jan 2, 2020
I think you may be right. What a lot of people here don't want to admit, is that when Muschamp came here, we had a 5 to 7 year rebuilding job ahead to get back to where we were in 2013. That is reality, like it or not. We'd have had to be very lucky to get that done sooner, no matter who the coach was. If Spurrier had left while he was on top, it might have been different, because at that point we still had the momentum he had built up, and the new coach, whoever he was, would have had that working for him. As it was, that didn't happen, so the program was slipping downhill fast by the time Muschamp took over. It's very rare for any coach to fix something like that in 3 or 4 seasons. Swinney didn't do that at UPC; took him 6 years. It took Stoops that long at Kentucky, too. I know, I know, everybody wants instant gratification, but it takes time to build a solid program, not just a flash in the pan.
He’s a Midwest guy, so doubt he would come, but I would like it. The Big 10 money is close to the SEC so they could match us.
No it doesn't. Smart isn't a re-tread. At some point, with a re-tread name in the big business of college football - that spark that gets players and coaches to buy in/show up gets lost & never to be found again. Muschamp hasn't forgotten how to coach, recruit, etc. But he's not the leader that Smart is. Some guys are HC material, and some guys aren't. By the logic some of you use...I guess it's easy to win at Alabama because they just get a lot of great players and so therefore it's easy to win and winning 10-11 games per year is a foregone conclusion.....SMDH.
Muschamp hired Kurt Roper as OC...and nobody was holding a gun to his head. Promoted B. Mac......again without the threat of imminent death he chose to hire him to run the offense. This happened.
Smart hired Brian Schottenheimer...not a great hire in retrospect...but at the time it looked great. One season with it not working....next. That dude goes onto a Pro coaching career and Smart hires a huge upgrade- Jim Chaney. Now they had James Coley....didn't work as he wanted. Move made after one disappointing year. Now they get Todd Monken. This will likely turn out well for their offense. They keep moving in the right direction. You aren't cutting it after one year? That was one year wasted- you are gone. Smart isn't falling into this stuff -he's making logical and strategic moves. I'm not a millennial and I don't care about instant gratification but at D1 football programs where the demand is to be consistently legitimate you don't get 4-5 years to do anything. It's a cut throat business. It's show business. We just got our asses beaten by an old (I thought) over the hill coach at UNC who DOES understand this. That's all it took. One guy...one realistic vision and ability to get people to buy in. If you don't have that...you are treading water and just waiting to drown.
Apples and Oranges in ability to get what they need out of coaches and assemble the right group going in the proper direction....and don't say GA is more of a draw. Chaney has been everywhere, and definitely worse programs than USCs. SOS gets a lot of respect for his offensive visions...but that dude had a vision for a program and it worked. We have a coach who is yet to prove he can do the same...and he's had every bit of help and opportunity to show he can do it at multiple places, and MANY years to do it.
Lets look at recent hires:
Baylor 1st yr HC
Ole Miss solid coach but with baggage
Ark first year HC
Mizzou 1 year experience HC
Mich State overpaid a 1 yr exp guy because thats all they could get.
Florida State solid hire
Where does Carolina fit in here if they make a move?what suggests they could lure a PJ Fleck to Columbia when these other schools settled for lessor or unproven coaches?
Baylor 1st yr HC
Ole Miss solid coach but with baggage
Ark first year HC
Mizzou 1 year experience HC
Mich State overpaid a 1 yr exp guy because thats all they could get.
Florida State solid hire
Where does Carolina fit in here if they make a move?what suggests they could lure a PJ Fleck to Columbia when these other schools settled for lessor or unproven coaches?
To KY levels? You talk as if SCAR is not far removed from being a National Power..... Three 11 win seasons hardly qualifies as a national power. Just sayin'! KY was on a good trajectory when Brooks retired and turned it over to Joker Phillips, and then came Stoops! You guys have Muschamp.....enjoy!
The majority of the new hires are likely going to be fired in the next 3 or so years, they’ll be right back to looking for the “magic” coach. Tom Herman spurned us for a shot at Texas, if he doesn’t win big in the next two years he’ll be gone.
The sole fact that part of what he bases his professional life on is taking the job that everyone says are "impossible" and in situations where winning is "unattainable". For god's sakes he's at Minnesota right now...and the Big Ten is the strongest it's been in a couple decades. I saw in another take where it was suggested he's a 'midwestern' guy. He is....but my main point is this guy is going to be/in process of becoming/maybe already is one of the select few top coaches in the country. He looks to have College Football legs...because his message and team concept won't work as well in the NFL most likely.
Joe Morrison and Holtz from OH. SOS from TN. I'm as big a "region" guy as anyone...wanting to have people from the state or local to the region and conference be in charge; but what we need to propel USC to where we ALL want to go is the right magic from the RIGHT HC. We stole Morrison from New Mexico for god's sake. New Mexico in 1983......think about that. He was a hot coaching prospect, and under valued as a whole from national recognition standpoint. He was a little off kilter, but a visionary. During his time as HC, he signed off on 2001..something maybe silly but helped energize a fanbase. The right football coach might be in Bangledesh right now - we have to find him. There is nothing more important to this program right now.
The University of South Carolina gets a lot of negative talk, and everyone understands the landscape we are in. What I see is a great university, a great geographic setup to live in and recruit from, a chance for a coach to be city/state/university folk hero with a statue outside the stadium if they invest in USC the way the university will invest in the RIGHT guy.
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CC- to hell with Kentucky. That said...you guys have a better HC, and are on more solid footing than our program. I think people are idiots if they don't see that....or maybe don't know what they're looking at. You are right - Phillips dropped you to depths that were harder to come back from where Holtz or SOS left us. As disengaged as they were....there was still plenty of talent and setup for the next coaches to keep things rolling at Carolina. UK is a worse setup for winning in SEC football than USC....and what he has done is phenomenal.
You are right. I wasn't fooled by the Herman BS...like 90% of our posters were on here who were SO SURE he was the guy. There is 1-2 of him every off season. I preferred Smart over Herman. Doesn't mean I know everything...doesn't mean that 90% doesn't know anything...but if you've been paying attention to college football for more than 5-6 years you saw Herman was another one of those hot names that get traction despite a less than stellar resume. 2-3 years at OSU as Coordinator made him better than 98% of the HC candidates that particular year apparently.
I don't think PJ Fleck is that guy at all; I wish our powers that be would research it and figure this out. I am 100% confident we are missing the boat by not putting all our eggs in that basket...letting him know he is our guy, we're a great match - we're buying what he is selling...let's do this together.
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Honestly though, I think Muschamp will get it done at SCAR.....Takes time man! For him to go 9-3 in 2018 was unreal given the situation he inherited. He needs depth and that is coming, probably this year! I live in Lexington SC and am a Gamecock fan as well as UK fan! I think he'll get it done and soon!
I agree with your breakdown of what Muschamp was up against when he arrived at USC, but I disagree with the parts I embolden. To intimate that Stoops "has arrived" already is a reach. Granted, he did fantastic 2 years ago, but he fell back some last year. Don't get me wrong, for Kentucky, it was good. I just think he has to string together a few seasons of 8-9 wins before we can say he has arrived. As for Swinney, it did actually take him 3-4 seasons to build a solid program. Being in the ACC does make the job easier, but not automatic.
unreal to go 9-3 in 2017? Do you how he won and the teams he beat? He had two “fluke” wins - Latech and Mizz. He got lucky.
4 years. They won 10 games his 4th season.
I see so if I am reading your post right- when he had a good year it was all good luck but when we had a bad year last year while we suffered through injuries to at least the top two players for EVERY skill position on offense, that is an accurate depiction of his coaching ability and nothing to do with bad luck? That sounds fair to you? It is not... But that is the fan mindset we are dealing with around here.
Muschamp may or may not be a great coach for us long term, last year sucked out loud but if ya’ll cannot at least acknowledge that we had an insane number of injuries on offense/ BAD LUCK that directly contributed to that, and literally discount his 9 win season as “luck” because he won some close games... you are just not being fair or rational at all.
The only box to check that matters is the winning box, and Muschamp does not cut it there.
For whatever reason, Muschamp teams typically have an insane number of injuries. Why is that?
I wouldn't say that winning is the ONLY thing that matters. There have been several coaches who won on the field, but left schools/programs in complete shambles. The off the field stuff is pretty important too. With that said, yes, I agree that winning is very important, and Muschamp must continue to show progress not only through recruiting but on the field results as well. The UGA win was nice, and being competitive with UF, Bama, etc... shows that we are not as far off as it seems and we should be playing consistently better than we have been.
For this season coming up there should be no reason for us not to be competitive in every game as we should not be getting blown off the field this far in. I would like to see a team that is prepared, confident/competent in the game plan, and coaches that can make adjustments if what we are doing is not working. Improvements absolutely have to be made in all facets of the game, including special teams becoming more than just a don't frick it up squad. After all it is 1/3rd of the game, and some of our best teams made game changing plays through special teams. I would like to see progress from players that have been in our program, as well as flashes from our young talent. No position should be safe. From QB to punt return, the best players absolutely have to get on the field whether on offense, defense or special teams. If one player is stinking it up, put a back up in to see if they can provide a spark, if they stink it up "next man up," and then back to the first if need be (This has been one of my criticisms in the past with Muschamp). Making a bowl game should be reasonable expectations for next season at this point. I will adjust my expectations once I see what type of team we actually have.
Ok serious question ... for all the “Muschamp will turn it around guys” . What have you guys seen in his 8 years in the SEC as a HC to back that up ?? Not trolling I’m just curious as to why . It takes an extremely special coach to win big here and I just don’t see it . Please convince me .
You are right. There is little or no evidence that Muschamp can win here. I suggest we start thinking about P.J. Fleck if the season starts to go South. We will have to move fast, open the checkbook, and put in all the effort needed to get him here.
Might be the old S/C Coach.
Dilman was pretty highly regarded in the industry, but Muschamp replaced him. Have to see how the new guy works out.
Broken bones, torn ligaments, etc are just bad luck, there’s very little you can do to stop those injuries. Losing your starting QB to a broken foot then having our true Freshman QB battered to the point of being a crash test dummy is just bad luck. But the number of hamstring injuries, etc were starting to rise, hence the replacement.
Does Kentucky play football?? Who cares about Kentucky, they've never been relevant.
PJ would be a good get . I actually was secretly hoping for Kiffin . He will win at Ole Miss , mark my words . He might have them back on probation in 5 years but he will win .
I do not have an answer... Is there empirical evidence that his teams consistently have more injuries than the competition? I certainly noticed it last year, but that was an extreme example...
I doubt it. I mean he WILL win... 6-8 games maybe, and he WILL get them back on probation most likely... so if that is what people wanted for us- similar win totals to what we have now gotten via lying and cheating- then Yeah I see why you wanted him here...
If that kind of $$ existed, Muschamp would already be gone. We may be stuck with him for a while due to economics.
And if he pulls off an 8 win season in the next few years, Ray will go stupid again with the buyout & dig a deeper hole.
If that kind of $$ existed, Muschamp would already be gone. We may be stuck with him for a while due to economics.
And if he pulls off an 8 win season in the next few years, Ray will go stupid again with the buyout & dig a deeper hole.
Flameout. Let me assure you that kind of dollars exist and more. This is not an issue about the money. It is about the timidness of the AD to make bold decisions. It is also about the AD's job situation. Many in power don't want Ray hiring the next FB and MBB coaches.
Hee hee ha ha.....you so funny! Do your research JackA$$ before you shoot yer mouth off!
Look a little deeper. LaTech was a last minute win. We were losing that game. Mizzou, well thank the rain and the last minute FG. UT and UF were both down and lost their coaches that year. He had no signature win that season.
Last season he lost to UNC under a first-year coach with a freshman QB. He then lost to App State, a two star team. He gets outcoached.
His offensive philosophy is 1990s. You cannot win with this guy. He hires Bobo his 6th OC. Bobo is no great shakes. Did not do much at UGA given the top flight talent he had. Did not do much at CSU. He hires his buddies. Not working.
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What research man.... Anybody who hasn't beat us but 6 times in the last 20 years tells me all I need to know... Kentucky is irrelevant like it or not.
Only thing that got SC a win vs UK last year is we had no QB and had not yet figured out an offense to counter our injuries! Kentucky is very relevant friend, like it or not Stoops has changed the culture at Kentucky! If you and the rest of the country can't see that, then you're all in denial! We will beat the brakes off SCAR this year and compete for the East title! You heard it here first! Mark it down.....
lol ! We're a basketball school.....See you Sep. 26 at Kroger field! Bring yer hardhat. The Bluegrass Bruisers are gonna crush you!!!
I'm sure we will be shaking in our cleats when we meet at Scary Grocery Store Stadium.
