OT: Need HVAC Advice

[gfluvsthecocks]

A couple of weeks ago our A.C. wouldn't come on. We had a new furnace installed in January and at that time they put in a new thermostat.

During the visit 2 weeks ago, the heating and air company said that there was a short in a wire to the thermostat which they fixed and everything ran fine for 2 weeks.

Last night I noticed it was a little warm and bumped down the A.C.. The unit was running but now the air wasn't cold and never cooled off. They sent someone out to check it and now he said the circuit board is fried. Apparently two wires rubbed together and fried the board.

I asked if it had anything to do with the wire he installed and he said no, that was a low voltage wire and these are high voltage. I'm not informed enough with electrical related issues. Is this something that they may have caused? The timing seems awfully coincidental if not.

Thanks in advance.

 

[world famous 3rd base hecklers]

A couple of weeks ago our A.C. wouldn't come on. We had a new furnace installed in January and at that time they put in a new thermostat.

During the visit 2 weeks ago, the heating and air company said that there was a short in a wire to the thermostat which they fixed and everything ran fine for 2 weeks.

Last night I noticed it was a little warm and bumped down the A.C.. The unit was running but now the air wasn't cold and never cooled off. They sent someone out to check it and now he said the circuit board is fried. Apparently two wires rubbed together and fried the board.

I asked if it had anything to do with the wire he installed and he said no, that was a low voltage wire and these are high voltage. I'm not informed enough with electrical related issues. Is this something that they may have caused? The timing seems awfully coincidental if not.

Thanks in advance.

I had that happened to me once and they replaced unit and thermostat. Switching from heat to AC, the AC didn't come on it was just warm air. Turned out to be a bad thermostat, even though it was new thermostat...

Luck it happened now and not later in the summer..

 

[gfluvsthecocks]

Thanks for your help. To clarify on our end it was the circuit board for the compressor that is fried, so the options were either buy a new unit (ours is only 8 years old) or a new circuit board.

So as I understand it the low voltage wires for the thermostat and high voltage for the compressor are in different areas. I'm wondering why they just rubbed together and fried the compressor now?

I guess my question boils down to whether it is more likely that the fan pushed the wires together (or other scenario that just happened) or that two weeks ago the repairman messed something up while trying to diagnose the original problem.

If this was something that just wore out, then that's life. I just don't want to be taken advantage of.

 

[Garnet chicken]

The thermostat is controlled by low voltage and triggers the unit to run when a certain temp drop or spike occurs. The compressor would have to run most likely off 240 V.

 

[world famous 3rd base hecklers]

Thanks for your help. To clarify on our end it was the circuit board for the compressor that is fried, so the options were either buy a new unit (ours is only 8 years old) or a new circuit board.

So as I understand it the low voltage wires for the thermostat and high voltage for the compressor are in different areas. I'm wondering why they just rubbed together and fried the compressor now?

I guess my question boils down to whether it is more likely that the fan pushed the wires together (or other scenario that just happened) or that two weeks ago the repairman messed something up while trying to diagnose the original problem.

If this was something that just wore out, then that's life. I just don't want to be taken advantage of.

Something that old, I think it was bound to happen...

Check the warranty on your unit before you replace it. Some have 10 - 15 year warranty on parts...

 

[titaniumspur]

Thanks for your help. To clarify on our end it was the circuit board for the compressor that is fried, so the options were either buy a new unit (ours is only 8 years old) or a new circuit board.

So as I understand it the low voltage wires for the thermostat and high voltage for the compressor are in different areas. I'm wondering why they just rubbed together and fried the compressor now?

I guess my question boils down to whether it is more likely that the fan pushed the wires together (or other scenario that just happened) or that two weeks ago the repairman messed something up while trying to diagnose the original problem.

If this was something that just wore out, then that's life. I just don't want to be taken advantage of.

I don't want to rush to judgement. When you say furnace, do you mean the air handler part of a heat pump? Why was it replaced? Did heating work after the repair? What is the make and model of the outside unit? Sorry for so many questions, but I'm a little suspicious like you are.

 

[gfluvsthecocks]

I don't want to rush to judgement. When you say furnace, do you mean the air handler part of a heat pump? Why was it replaced? Did heating work after the repair? What is the make and model of the outside unit? Sorry for so many questions, but I'm a little suspicious like you are.

Yes, by furnace I guess I mean the air handler part of the heat pump. Its gas powered. That unit was over 30 years old and had a part go down, so with the age of the unit it made sense to change it.

At the time that they replaced that they put in a new thermostat.

Two weeks ago the outside Air Conditioning Unit wouldn't come on. They came out and ultimately diagnosed it as a short circuit in one of the wires to the thermostat. Replaced that wire and the system worked fine until last night.

Last night, the outside unit was running but not pushing cold air. Today when the technician came out he said two wires in the circuit board to the compressor had crossed and fried the circuit board. It's estimated at $1,500.

I don't know if that happens unprompted very often or not. I worry that he was trying to diagnose the original problem and created a bigger one but I also don't want to wrongly blame someone. I'm trying to figure out the probability of it being a natural occurrence versus something that the technician caused.

The unit is a 2009 Goodman.

 

[ruffledfeathers]

Thermostat is low voltage wiring. If they said two wires touched and shorted, then they are admitting to an installation error. Any installer is responsible for a short-free installation. They should test for proper operation of the unit before they leave. The normal operation of the unit shouldn't cause a short (not the fan, not a windy day, etc.). However, a lightning strike might be the culprit, if they hadn't already admitted to two wires shorting.

 

[gfluvsthecocks]

Thermostat is low voltage wiring. If they said two wires touched and shorted, then they are admitting to an installation error. Any installer is responsible for a short-free installation. They should test for proper operation of the unit before they leave. The normal operation of the unit shouldn't cause a short (not the fan, not a windy day, etc.). However, a lightning strike might be the culprit, if they hadn't already admitted to two wires shorting.

They're saying the wires to the compressor which were high voltage wires and not something they touched were the wires that crossed and fried the compressor. I only mention the thermostat short because that's what they were here working on and diagnosing two weeks ago.

I appreciate everyone's help.

 

[2013 SS]

Sounds like BS to me, and I'm in the business.

 

[ruffledfeathers]

Yes, by furnace I guess I mean the air handler part of the heat pump. Its gas powered. That unit was over 30 years old and had a part go down, so with the age of the unit it made sense to change it.

At the time that they replaced that they put in a new thermostat.

Two weeks ago the outside Air Conditioning Unit wouldn't come on. They came out and ultimately diagnosed it as a short circuit in one of the wires to the thermostat. Replaced that wire and the system worked fine until last night.

Last night, the outside unit was running but not pushing cold air. Today when the technician came out he said two wires in the circuit board to the compressor had crossed and fried the circuit board. It's estimated at $1,500.

I don't know if that happens unprompted very often or not. I worry that he was trying to diagnose the original problem and created a bigger one but I also don't want to wrongly blame someone. I'm trying to figure out the probability of it being a natural occurrence versus something that the technician caused.

The unit is a 2009 Goodman.

The compressor is in the outside unit. It sounds like they disturbed the wiring that had been just fine since 2009. This is on them. If it was a new install then maybe a warranty issue for Goodman, but working fine since 2009, that on them. The circuit board is probably a $100-$300 item, as the entire outside unit (new, current model) is about $600-$1000 range (not including labor), depending on btu tonnage. That $1,500 for a circuit board is well over $1,000 for labor. A whole new outside unit for $1,500 is more probable.

 

[sclawman77]

Well I'm having an evaporator coil replaced next week on a four year old Rheem two ton unit. The entire reason I bought a new unit was because the previous one was old and kept leaking freon. Now I'm fighting same battle. At least parts are covered. Still costing an arm and a leg.

 

[titaniumspur]

They're saying the wires to the compressor which were high voltage wires and not something they touched were the wires that crossed and fried the compressor. I only mention the thermostat short because that's what they were here working on and diagnosing two weeks ago.

I appreciate everyone's help.

Those high voltage wires are stiff and well insulated. They just don't move by themselves. I would tell the technician or owner of the company that you want to see the short. I'm in the business too, I actually met the warranty manager at Goodman a few years ago.

 

[gfluvsthecocks]

Well I'm having an evaporator coil replaced next week on a four year old Rheem two ton unit. The entire reason I bought a new unit was because the previous one was old and kept leaking freon. Now I'm fighting same battle. At least parts are covered. Still costing an arm and a leg.

Joys of home ownership. Always something it seems.

 

[Garnet chicken]

Another thing is an older outdoor unit should not be paired with a new air handler. That is asking for trouble. No way of telling if they will work together properly especially if different brands.

 

[CockFamily6]

Really not a circuit board powering the compressor that would be a contactor. That is fed by high voltage 240 volts single phase in a home. The thermostat is low voltage. The story sounds like bs to me.

 

[idohvac2]

Well I'm having an evaporator coil replaced next week on a four year old Rheem two ton unit. The entire reason I bought a new unit was because the previous one was old and kept leaking freon. Now I'm fighting same battle. At least parts are covered. Still costing an arm and a leg.

There are so many crooks in HVAC. I have seen that happen numerous times where a company blames leaking coils, change out the coils, later it still leaks, and find out it was a leak in the copper line set. If you can het them to show you the leak. I always instruct my guys to show the leak. Crooks ruin things for people that do the job right with integrity

 

[dreamer1]

Sorry to here your issues but if you got contractors saying you have a refrigerant leak and the only way to fix it is to change out the unit then must get them to show u the leak with good old fashioned soap bubbles. Most leaks are not in coils but in lines or shrader valves and new unit is not needed but some copper brazing and fitting more in order. If u feel u r getting scammed then get a 2nd pair of eyes to verify what they are both showing and telling you.

 

[Gamecock122]

Yes, by furnace I guess I mean the air handler part of the heat pump. Its gas powered. That unit was over 30 years old and had a part go down, so with the age of the unit it made sense to change it.

At the time that they replaced that they put in a new thermostat.

Two weeks ago the outside Air Conditioning Unit wouldn't come on. They came out and ultimately diagnosed it as a short circuit in one of the wires to the thermostat. Replaced that wire and the system worked fine until last night.

Last night, the outside unit was running but not pushing cold air. Today when the technician came out he said two wires in the circuit board to the compressor had crossed and fried the circuit board. It's estimated at $1,500.

I don't know if that happens unprompted very often or not. I worry that he was trying to diagnose the original problem and created a bigger one but I also don't want to wrongly blame someone. I'm trying to figure out the probability of it being a natural occurrence versus something that the technician caused.

The unit is a 2009 Goodman.

Goodman had 10 year warranty on units that old (as they have for new ones as well). If your unit was registered with Goodman then you have warranty on all parts. If not registered then your warranty was only 5 years. Make sure your technician knows this as he can check the warranty status. You must have the exact serial # of the unit in question and the name as it may have been registered. You can call Goodman warranty dept. and give them this info to verify for yourself as well.

 

[Garnet chicken]

If it has mismatched equipment there probably is no warranty.

 

[sclawman77]

Sorry to here your issues but if you got contractors saying you have a refrigerant leak and the only way to fix it is to change out the unit then must get them to show u the leak with good old fashioned soap bubbles. Most leaks are not in coils but in lines or shrader valves and new unit is not needed but some copper brazing and fitting more in order. If u feel u r getting scammed then get a 2nd pair of eyes to verify what they are both showing and telling you.

If you're responding to me, when I bought the house the unit was the age of the house-15 years old and was undersized for the house size. It also started to leak freon a year or so after we moved in. Instead of paying $1000+ towards a repair, I replaced the unit. After four years with the new unit from Home Depot (ARS is contractor), it apparently has a leak. ARS ran the dye test and showed me the leak in the coil. The part is covered, labor is not.

 

[cockn'fyr]

You guys are right, you can get taken very easily! I would get a second opinion from someone you trust! I've been using panther air, good people!

 

[Garnet chicken]

R410A, R407C or the newest R32. They are a combination of chemicals supposedly environmentally safe.

 

[vehemon]

There are so many crooks in HVAC. I have seen that happen numerous times where a company blames leaking coils, change out the coils, later it still leaks, and find out it was a leak in the copper line set. If you can het them to show you the leak. I always instruct my guys to show the leak. Crooks ruin things for people that do the job right with integrity

The home warranty people sent out a HVAC crew that did something to void the warranty on my AC systems. No one would claim responsibility.

Find someone you can trust and stick with them. This goes for all your home needs.

I had a plumber come check out why my water bill was so high. He said it was because a problem with my sprinkler system and something had to be replaced. Said he could fix it for 2.2k.... Called my sprinkler system... a rock got into the system and was causing it to continuously leak. Fixed it for $50

People are just POS when it comes to money.

 

[vehemon]

If you're responding to me, when I bought the house the unit was the age of the house-15 years old and was undersized for the house size. It also started to leak freon a year or so after we moved in. Instead of paying $1000+ towards a repair, I replaced the unit. After four years with the new unit from Home Depot (ARS is contractor), it apparently has a leak. ARS ran the dye test and showed me the leak in the coil. The part is covered, labor is not.

FYI, supposedly dumping dye into your system can void the warranty of your AC. I was told it was a 'lazy' test for AC repair people when they don't have the proper tools to look for a leak.

 

[sclawman77]

FYI, supposedly dumping dye into your system can void the warranty of your AC. I was told it was a 'lazy' test for AC repair people when they don't have the proper tools to look for a leak.

All I know is the house was running hot (unit would not catch up to thermostat). The contractor determined there was a leak, did the dye test (free of charge and did not affect warranty), refilled with freon and replaced the coil- the house is cooler than it's ever been. If I got scammed, they at least fixed the problem. I thought originally it was an insulation issue.

 

[Bigger_Stronger_Faster]

They're saying the wires to the compressor which were high voltage wires and not something they touched were the wires that crossed and fried the compressor. I only mention the thermostat short because that's what they were here working on and diagnosing two weeks ago.

I appreciate everyone's help.

So they're saying your compressor is fried? Just so you know, when they changed your air handler they had to remove the indoor coil for the AC unit, which means they have to evacuate the refrigerant, cut the refrigerant lines then replace the coil and solder the lines back in. After soldering the should have vacuumed the line set and the coil with a high vacuum pump down to at least 500 microns, started the unit and checked the refrigerant charge, including evaporator metering device superheat.
In other words, they were working on your AC unit as well and they very well could have do something wrong that led to your compressor failure.
On the other hand, if it is just a control board that are eating you alive at $1500. Most boards are under $300 and a Goodman is probably less than that.
I would definitely get a second opinion. Everyone should know someone that knows hvac that isn't in the business. These contractor co's have a lot of overhead and like to make a lot of money .

As to the discussion about using dye, if your contractor desn't have an electronic leak detector and soap bubbles you've called the wrong contractor! Don't use dye in your system. For the most part it is safe to use, but in a residential unit there's really no need for it if a repairman or contractor has the right equipment.

 

[dreamer1]

R410A, R407C or the newest R32. They are a combination of chemicals supposedly environmentally safe.

Freon is a specific brand name for a manufacturer named Dupont. All of the above are refrigerants. Little history lesson there folks.

Glad to see another soap bubble man on board. Easy simple and cheap. Pop goes the bubble. Hmmm might be a leak. It is a bitch using it on coil though so trusty leak detector is next. Lol

 

[chucktowncock]

sounds like a defective thelman wire

good luck

 

[Bigger_Stronger_Faster]

Freon is a specific brand name for a manufacturer named Dupont. All of the above are refrigerants. Little history lesson there folks.

Glad to see another soap bubble man on board. Easy simple and cheap. Pop goes the bubble. Hmmm might be a leak. It is a bitch using it on coil though so trusty leak detector is next. Lol

Electronic leak detector will get you close, bubbles will pinpoint the leak. They're tried and true!
Coils just leak, and it's almost always on the inside of the end plate in a spot you can't solder. I remember the good ol days when you could just someone charge it up for $30-40 once a year, maybe twice. But with co's charging $200 + for one pound of R-22 you're better off in the long run replacing it...or the entire system if it's old and go with a newer refrigerant. It's become a money making racket like everything else.

 

[cockn'fyr]

So they're saying your compressor is fried? Just so you know, when they changed your air handler they had to remove the indoor coil for the AC unit, which means they have to evacuate the refrigerant, cut the refrigerant lines then replace the coil and solder the lines back in. After soldering the should have vacuumed the line set and the coil with a high vacuum pump down to at least 500 microns, started the unit and checked the refrigerant charge, including evaporator metering device superheat.
In other words, they were working on your AC unit as well and they very well could have do something wrong that led to your compressor failure.
On the other hand, if it is just a control board that are eating you alive at $1500. Most boards are under $300 and a Goodman is probably less than that.
I would definitely get a second opinion. Everyone should know someone that knows hvac that isn't in the business. These contractor co's have a lot of overhead and like to make a lot of money .

As to the discussion about using dye, if your contractor desn't have an electronic leak detector and soap bubbles you've called the wrong contractor! Don't use dye in your system. For the most part it is safe to use, but in a residential unit there's really no need for it if a repairman or contractor has the right equipment.

I think I'd be calling this guy!

 

[NCGamcockFan2167]

Oh No. all my Leon Freaked out!!!

True story. Wife called to tell me what the service guy said!

 

[Rooster Louie]

If the OP registered the Goodman online, there should be a 10 year compressor warranty. (5 years if not).

Anyway, I agree with others above.

I've replaced relays on my Goodman's in my rental properties myself. This should cost no where near $1500. Probably not even $150 (for parts). The HVAC contractor can buy the entire Heat Pump Unit (depending on # tons) for not much more than that. (Of course, they are going to mark it up for profit.)

OP what area do you live in?
We'll find you a reputable/ fair repairman.

 

[TheCockMan]

Any good suggestions on a company to use to get a new unit?

 

[Garnet chicken]

Always had good dealings with James Cassell of Cassell Brothers.