PJ Fleck

[OldWiseCock]

K. State hired Chris Klieman from N. Dakota State. He was 69-6 at NDS and won 4 national championships. He's 5-2 in his first season at K.State after beating Oklahoma yesterday.

Point is, that there are good young coaches and successful small college coaches around who would come here and win. But it will take someone other than Ray Tanner to find such a coach and convince him to take the job.

 

[WOFJRP]

K. State hired Chris Klieman from N. Dakota State. He was 69-6 at NDS and won 4 national championships. He's 5-2 in his first season at K.State after beating Oklahoma yesterday.

Point is, that there are good young coaches and successful small college coaches around who would come here and win. But it will take someone other than Ray Tanner to find such a coach and convince him to take the job.

Somebody in the SEC will hire Klieman this year, very good coach.

 

[Bucs90]

8-0
Let’s fire WM and hire PJ Fleck. He’s 8-0 at Minnesota!
They had 498 yards offense with only 177 passing.
Guy can coach. Come on Ray.
Make the move.

WHY would Fleck take it? Yall may not want to hear this but Minnesota to SC is a lateral move at best.

 

[Bucs90]

Someone said Matt Rhule. AGAIN yall may not wanna hear this but Baylor to SC is NOT a step up. Baylor has several conference championships and BCS bowl appearances

 

[Coyote89]

Was thinking the same think..He has Baylor undefeated after that shit show they had

Would you leave Baylor for USC? He's got better in-state recruiting turf and an easier conference schedule. Baylor is already paying him $3.5 million and would certainly match the $4.2 million that Muschamp makes (if not more) in order to keep him. And perhaps most of all, he's already winning at Baylor and doesn't have to rebuild. They are undefeated and ranked #14.

That said, there are a few P5 coaches out there that would give the USC job serious consideration (like Matt Campbell and maybe even Mike Leach now that he's struggling a bit at WSU and showing signs of frustration), but the more likely scenario would be hiring someone from G5 like Mike Norvell, Sonny Dykes, or Josh Heupel. After all, you have to remember that the FSU and USC jobs could be open soon. Until last night, it looked like the Tennessee job could be available as well. Coaches who are already winning and happy in a decent P5 job like Minnesota or Baylor, are likely to only leave for an A-list opportunity rather than taking on a rebuild that has a difficult path to the top.

 

[OldWiseCock]

Somebody in the SEC will hire Klieman this year, very good coach.

Probably. Arkansas, Ole Miss and Miss State are probably in the market for a new coach. Possibly Auburn too.

 

[OldWiseCock]

Would you leave Baylor for USC? He's got better in-state recruiting turf and an easier conference schedule. Baylor is already paying him $3.5 million and would certainly match the $4.2 million that Muschamp makes (if not more) in order to keep him. And perhaps most of all, he's already winning at Baylor and doesn't have to rebuild. They are undefeated and ranked #14.

That said, there are a few P5 coaches out there that would give the USC job serious consideration (like Matt Campbell and maybe even Mike Leach now that he's struggling a bit at WSU and showing signs of frustration), but the more likely scenario would be hiring someone from G5 like Mike Norvell, Sonny Dykes, or Josh Heupel. After all, you have to remember that the FSU and USC jobs could be open soon. Until last night, it looked like the Tennessee job could be available as well. Coaches who are already winning and happy in a decent P5 job like Minnesota or Baylor, are likely to only leave for an A-list opportunity rather than taking on a rebuild that has a difficult path to the top.

It doesn't matter. We won't be hiring a new coach this year or next year. It would take a mutiny of some kind for that to happen.

 

[WOFJRP]

Someone said Matt Rhule. AGAIN yall may not wanna hear this but Baylor to SC is NOT a step up. Baylor has several conference championships and BCS bowl appearances

Baylor had 1 BCS bowl appearance. They typically rank between #30 AND #40 in recruiting rankings. Not sure Baylor's considered a plum job. Chuck Reedy coached there, won a SWC conference title and parlayed that into coaching Goose Creek High.

 

[Carolina Garnet and Black]

yall may not wanna hear this but Baylor to SC is NOT a step up. Baylor has several conference championships and BCS bowl appearances

Conference championships
Baylor has won nine conference championships, won in two different conferences, five outright and four shared.

Year Conference Coach Overall record Conference record
1915 Southwest Conference Charles Mosley 7–1 3–0
1916 Southwest Conference Charles Mosley 9–1 5–1
1922 Southwest Conference Frank Bridges 8–3 5–0
1924 Southwest Conference Frank Bridges 7–2–1 4–0–1
1974 Southwest Conference Grant Teaff 8–4 6–1
1980 Southwest Conference Grant Teaff 10–1 8–0
1994† Southwest Conference Chuck Reedy 7–4 4–3
2013 Big 12 Conference Art Briles 11–2 8–1
2014† Big 12 Conference Art Briles 11–2 8–1

 

[WOFJRP]

Conference championships
Baylor has won nine conference championships, won in two different conferences, five outright and four shared.

Year Conference Coach Overall record Conference record
1915 Southwest Conference Charles Mosley 7–1 3–0
1916 Southwest Conference Charles Mosley 9–1 5–1
1922 Southwest Conference Frank Bridges 8–3 5–0
1924 Southwest Conference Frank Bridges 7–2–1 4–0–1
1974 Southwest Conference Grant Teaff 8–4 6–1
1980 Southwest Conference Grant Teaff 10–1 8–0
1994† Southwest Conference Chuck Reedy 7–4 4–3
2013 Big 12 Conference Art Briles 11–2 8–1
2014† Big 12 Conference Art Briles 11–2 8–1

Not really sure what this is supposed to prove. The SWC was a mostly mediocre conference from the 1980s until it died an ugly death in 1995. It was the ACC without Clemson. The teams alternated each year getting put on probation, with SMU getting the death penalty.

BAYLOR PLAYED IN ONE BCS BOWL, not several as Bucs 90 claimed.

Baylor plays in a 45,000 seat stadium. South Carolina is a step up, if for no other reason it plays in the highest profile conference in the country. Baylor's having a good season but their coach is just over .500 lifetime.

 

[Carolina Garnet and Black]

Not really sure what this is supposed to prove.

A piece of Uneducated Trailer Trash posted a comment about Baylor.
I posted the facts.

Have a problem with that?

 

[WOFJRP]

A piece of Uneducated Trailer Trash posted a comment about Baylor.
I posted the facts.

Have a problem with that?

Doesn't shed much light, are you saying South Carolina is a step down from Baylor and what comment were you addressing?

 

[Coyote89]

Not really sure what this is supposed to prove. The SWC was a mostly mediocre conference from the 1980s until it died an ugly death in 1995. It was the ACC without Clemson. The teams alternated each year getting put on probation, with SMU getting the death penalty.

BAYLOR PLAYED IN ONE BCS BOWL, not several as Bucs 90 claimed.

Baylor plays in a 45,000 seat stadium. South Carolina is a step up, if for no other reason it plays in the highest profile conference in the country. Baylor's having a good season but their coach is just over .500 lifetime.

You have to consider how coaches actually make career decisions. Would it be smart for Matt Rhule to leave Baylor for South Carolina? I'd argue no.

At Baylor, he has better in-state recruiting turf, an easier conference schedule, and they are already winning so he doesn't have to rebuild. It's also a job where they won't be threatening to run him out of town the first time he has a losing season, and thanks to the easier schedule I just mentioned, it's also a much easier conference in which to turn a program around when and if that happens. And since Baylor already pays Rhule $3.5 million, they'd likely match any offer USC would make in order to keep him.

Many big-name programs tried unsuccessfully for years to get Art Briles or Gary Patterson to leave Baylor or TCU, yet neither of them would budge. Simply having a bigger fan base doesn't mean it's a good career move. Once someone lands a job like that, they probably shouldn't leave it for anything other than a true A-list opportunity.

 

[WOFJRP]

You have to consider how coaches actually make career decisions. Would it be smart for Matt Rhule to leave Baylor for South Carolina? I'd argue no.

At Baylor, he has better in-state recruiting turf, an easier conference schedule, and they are already winning so he doesn't have to rebuild. It's also a job where they won't be threatening to run him out of town the first time he has a losing season, and thanks to the easier schedule I just mentioned, it's also a much easier conference in which to turn a program around when and if that happens. And since Baylor already pays Rhule $3.5 million, they'd likely match any offer USC would make in order to keep him.

Many big-name programs tried unsuccessfully for years to get Art Briles or Gary Patterson to leave Baylor or TCU, yet neither of them would budge. Simply having a bigger fan base doesn't mean it's a good career move. Once someone lands a job like that, they probably shouldn't leave it for anything other than a true A-list opportunity.

In-state recruiting turf? You mean the the same state that includes Texas, Houston, TCU, Texas A&M? If
it was that good for Baylor they wouldn't end up 35th in recruiting every year. This guy has one good season and he's a HOFer already. He's barely over .500 for his career. His Temple teams won 10 games two seasons, but he didn't beat anybody.

I think his resume is a little thin right now. If he can get a job in the SEC w/anybody he ought to grab it.

 

[cockhornleghorn]

We can exercise this debate of who wants PJ Fleck here, but for those who deal with cold, unflinching reality there is a truth that is hard to deal with.
There is no good compelling reason for PJ to even consider the prospect of leaving his current situation to come here.

Plus Minnie has a new stadium.

 

[cockhornleghorn]

Baylor had 1 BCS bowl appearance. They typically rank between #30 AND #40 in recruiting rankings. Not sure Baylor's considered a plum job. Chuck Reedy coached there, won a SWC conference title and parlayed that into coaching Goose Creek High.

Take a gander at that!

 

[shockwave210]

I would love to see PJ fleck here...

 

[Eighty6pack]

Clawson

Drinkwitz

 

[castlesl]

Being in the SEC does not help. Most coaches are going to view the schedule as an automatic 3-4 losses per year. They will have to play UF, CU, A&M and UGA every year plus at least two out of a West Division where half of it is typically elite.

UofSC is a tough gig. High expectations by the fan base in a state that produces very little Div. 1 talent. Why do you think 95% of Clemson's talent is not from SC?

It is just not a job that someone would want who is already having success at the Div. 1 level. It makes no sense to come here if you are doing well at Baylor or MN or K-State. Keep doing well at those places and you will eventually land an elite job in your own conference.

The fanbase doesn't want to hear it, and i understand it, but it is what it is.

 

[Chanticleer37]

Rhule was attainable when Muschamp was hired. Many on Cockytalk and Twitter mentioned him as a candidate. I doubt Tanner even considered him - he wanted "SEC experience," another clue among the many that he's way over his head.

Now, if we did the intelligent thing and shit-canned Tanner and Muschamp; and our new AD were to make a HC hire, we'd be wise to look at Norvell, Litrell, etc.

Have a look at the Deebo TD yesterday vs the Panthers. Shanahan's offense displays so much creativity. We will not win by trying to be UGA or Bama because we're outgunned.



This era of Gamecock Football (Tanner begged SOS to stay; Tanner cried at SOS's presser; Tanner whiffed on big names; Tanner hired a guy who couldn't win at Florida and yelled "We got ourselves a Gamecock!"; Tanner allowed Muschamp to bring Roper, etc) has been an abject failure of the highest order.

 

[JDishnell]

Not really sure what this is supposed to prove. The SWC was a mostly mediocre conference from the 1980s until it died an ugly death in 1995. It was the ACC without Clemson. The teams alternated each year getting put on probation, with SMU getting the death penalty.

BAYLOR PLAYED IN ONE BCS BOWL, not several as Bucs 90 claimed.

Baylor plays in a 45,000 seat stadium. South Carolina is a step up, if for no other reason it plays in the highest profile conference in the country. Baylor's having a good season but their coach is just over .500 lifetime.

Yes, but you have to look at the programs he took over. Took over a bad temple team and went: 2-10, 6-6, 10-4 and 10-3. Took over a dreadfully bad and dysfunctional Baylor team and went 1-11, 7-6 and is now 7-0;.

 

[WOFJRP]

Yes, but you have to look at the programs he took over. Took over a bad temple team and went: 2-10, 6-6, 10-4 and 10-3. Took over a dreadfully bad and dysfunctional Baylor team and went 1-11, 7-6 and is now 7-0;.

Who did he beat at Temple when he went 10-4 and 10-3? Who has he beaten at Baylor in three years? Kansas State is about the only team with a pulse that he beat, 3-5 Texas Tech took them to 2OTs. It's amazing how somebody can come on this board and say essentially that the head coaching position at South Carolina is a step down for someone at Baylor or Minnesota and our "fans" immediately turn into PR machines for Baylor and Minnesota.

If the South Carolina position was as lowly as some of you people think Lou Holtz or Steve Spurrier would have never come here.

I hope that if the head coaching position comes open we don't go after a coach that is essentially Muschamp 2.0. Matt Rhule, right now falls in that category.

 

[JDishnell]

Who did he beat at Temple when he went 10-4 and 10-3? Who has he beaten at Baylor in three years? Kansas State is about the only team with a pulse that he beat, 3-5 Texas Tech took them to 2OTs. It's amazing how somebody can come on this board and say essentially that the head coaching position at South Carolina is a step down for someone at Baylor or Minnesota and our "fans" immediately turn into PR machines for Baylor and Minnesota.

If the South Carolina position was as lowly as some of you people think Lou Holtz or Steve Spurrier would have never come here.

I hope that if the head coaching position comes open we don't go after a coach that is essentially Muschamp 2.0. Matt Rhule, right now falls in that category.

Weak argument. Who did Jim Tressel beat at Youngstown State?

You don't know anything, obviously. Rhule has been at 2 programs as head coach and turned them both completely around by his 3rd season. How exactly does that compare to Muschamp?

 

[92Pony]

Rhule was attainable when Muschamp was hired. Many on Cockytalk and Twitter mentioned him as a candidate. I doubt Tanner even considered him - he wanted "SEC experience," another clue among the many that he's way over his head.

Now, if we did the intelligent thing and shit-canned Tanner and Muschamp; and our new AD were to make a HC hire, we'd be wise to look at Norvell, Litrell, etc.

Have a look at the Deebo TD yesterday vs the Panthers. Shanahan's offense displays so much creativity. We will not win by trying to be UGA or Bama because we're outgunned.

View embedded media

This era of Gamecock Football (Tanner begged SOS to stay; Tanner cried at SOS's presser; Tanner whiffed on big names; Tanner hired a guy who couldn't win at Florida and yelled "We got ourselves a Gamecock!"; Tanner allowed Muschamp to bring Roper, etc) has been an abject failure of the highest order.

Ya know; That was the very first thing that came to mind when I watched that clip!! Why can't we have nice things like that here?

 

[WOFJRP]

Weak argument. You could've asked the same about Urban Meyer at Bowling Green and Utah. He had a couple notable wins but for the most part beat up on nobodies.

You don't know anything, obviously. Rhule has been at 2 programs as head coach and turned them both completely around by his 3rd season. How exactly does that compare to Muschamp?

Now you really are showing your ignorance, Urban Meyer was 17-6 at Bowling Green, 22-2 at Utah, Sporting News National Coach of the Year; took Utah to a BCS bowl and beat Pittsburgh and finished 12 and 0. He had his pick of any coaching job in the country at the time.

You couldn't refute the argument because Ruhle turned around programs with the assistance of a weak schedule. By the way Muschamp was 11-2 in his second year at Florida after taking over a program that by most accounts was left in shambles by Urban Meyer.

 

[OldWiseCock]

Sidewise, step up or step down - it doesn't really matter unless you are going to or from Alabama, Notre Dame and a few others.

Matt Rhule, PJ Fleck and others would consider this job if we handle it correctly. I just don't trust Ray Tanner to do that.

 

[WOFJRP]

Weak argument. Who did Jim Tressel beat at Youngstown State?

You don't know anything, obviously. Rhule has been at 2 programs as head coach and turned them both completely around by his 3rd season. How exactly does that compare to Muschamp?

THIS REALLY IS FUNNY, YOU WENT BACK AND EDITED YOUR POST TO USE JIM TRESSEL INSTEAD OF URBAN MEYER. Okay I'll play along, I'm sure you'll go back and edit your original post again to somebody else. At the time Ohio State hired Tressel he had 25 years coaching experience; WAS 135-57-2 AT Youngstown State; 3 national 1-AA titles; played in a fourth and was National 1-AA coach of the year 4 times, not to mention a long list of asst. coach positions.

You need to adhere to the Rule of Holes, WHEN YOU'RE IN ONE, STOP DIGGING. For every coach that you can list that was a success after being the "best up and coming coach in the country" that went on to bigger things, I can name twenty that were dismal failures after taking jobs in a more elite conference.

 

[GamecockinHouston]

WHY would Fleck take it? Yall may not want to hear this but Minnesota to SC is a lateral move at best.

Disagree. We pay more, and have had better recent success.

 

[JDishnell]

THIS REALLY IS FUNNY, YOU WENT BACK AND EDITED YOUR POST TO USE JIM TRESSEL INSTEAD OF URBAN MEYER. Okay I'll play along, I'm sure you'll go back and edit your original post again to somebody else. At the time Ohio State hired Tressel he had 25 years coaching experience; WAS 135-57-2 AT Youngstown State; 3 national 1-AA titles; played in a fourth and was National 1-AA coach of the year 4 times, not to mention a long list of asst. coach positions.

You need to adhere to the Rule of Holes, WHEN YOU'RE IN ONE, STOP DIGGING. For every coach that you can list that was a success after being the "best up and coming coach in the country" that went on to bigger things, I can name twenty that were dismal failures after taking jobs in a more elite conference.

No, no, no. Your original question was "who did he beat?" Gotta stick to that. So, who did Tressel beat at YSU to indicate he'd be good at OSU?

 

[OldWiseCock]

Plus Minnie has a new stadium.

Holy smokes. It only seats about 50,000 and that thing cost 303 million to build!!

 

[Coyote89]

In-state recruiting turf? You mean the the same state that includes Texas, Houston, TCU, Texas A&M? If
it was that good for Baylor they wouldn't end up 35th in recruiting every year. This guy has one good season and he's a HOFer already. He's barely over .500 for his career. His Temple teams won 10 games two seasons, but he didn't beat anybody.

I think his resume is a little thin right now. If he can get a job in the SEC w/anybody he ought to grab it.

People said the same about Gary Patterson whose name was linked to several A-list opportunities including Texas, Texas A&M, LSU, Georgia, and Notre Dame at various points, yet he stayed-put every time. Consider how often Mike Gundy's name has been linked to other jobs, yet he hasn't left either. Once someone has a good job and they are winning and appreciated, it's awfully hard to get them to leave, especially when you know their current school will match any competing offer.

It's been 44 years since USC actually pulled a head coach away from another P5 program (Jim Carlen in 1975) and Carlen was just 6-4-2 at Texas Tech the year USC hired him. None of the 6 hires that USC has made since then (Morrison, Woods, Scott, Holtz, Spurrier, and Muschamp) walked away from success in another P5 HC job to coach South Carolina instead. After all, South Carolina is not exactly an easy place to win. Only one coach, Spurrier, has ever managed to produce a top ten finish at USC and even he couldn't sustain it, falling all the way to 3-9 with a humiliating loss to the Citadel just a couple years later. Meanwhile, USC's only conference championship in program history came in 1969. That was 50 years ago, in the ACC, with a team that went just 7-4.

So ask yourself honestly if it would be a smart career decision to leave an undefeated and #12 ranked Baylor program for a rebuild project at USC. If I were in Matt Rhule's position, I wouldn't leave for anything less than an A-list job. Better to just stay put and keep building at Baylor than to try to pull-off a rebuild at a non-blueblood program in the brutal SEC.

 

[WOFJRP]

No, no, no. Your original question was "who did he beat?" Gotta stick to that. So, who did Tressel beat at YSU to indicate he'd be good at OSU?

That's rich, you wanting me to stick to the original question when you edited your original post from Urban Meyer to Jim Tressel. The answer is pretty much everybody he played, Marshall, Boise State, Georgia Southern. The best teams on his schedule, something Matt Rhule hasn't done.

 

[Blackland]

Why do we have to settle for some small college coach or mid-major coach? Why not go out and hire a proven winner from a major college?

 

[cockhornleghorn]

The football coach that will be successful here is the one who has been successful at a program that has been typically average or mediocre. Spurrier: Duke and Florida fit that bill when he got there and Holtz fit that bill at NC State. Morrison fit that bill at New Mexico. Brad Scott, Richard Bell, Paul Dietzel, Jim Carlen and Muschamp don't fit that bill.

 

[nccock622]

He wouldn't come here. He's a Dabo-lite except that he doesn't talk religion and dumped his first wife for a stripper type.

Nothing wrong with strippers.

 

[JDishnell]

That's rich, you wanting me to stick to the original question when you edited your original post from Urban Meyer to Jim Tressel. The answer is pretty much everybody he played, Marshall, Boise State, Georgia Southern. The best teams on his schedule, something Matt Rhule hasn't done.

So lesser competition than Rhule faced?

 

[WOFJRP]

People said the same about Gary Patterson whose name was linked to several A-list opportunities including Texas, Texas A&M, LSU, Georgia, and Notre Dame at various points, yet he stayed-put every time. Consider how often Mike Gundy's name has been linked to other jobs, yet he hasn't left either. Once someone has a good job and they are winning and appreciated, it's awfully hard to get them to leave, especially when you know their current school will match any competing offer.

It's been 44 years since USC actually pulled a head coach away from another P5 program (Jim Carlen in 1975) and Carlen was just 6-4-2 at Texas Tech the year USC hired him. None of the 6 hires that USC has made since then (Morrison, Woods, Scott, Holtz, Spurrier, and Muschamp) walked away from success in another P5 HC job to coach South Carolina instead. After all, South Carolina is not exactly an easy place to win. Only one coach, Spurrier, has ever managed to produce a top ten finish at USC and even he couldn't sustain it, falling all the way to 3-9 with a humiliating loss to the Citadel just a couple years later. Meanwhile, USC's only conference championship in program history came in 1969. That was 50 years ago, in the ACC, with a team that went just 7-4.

So ask yourself honestly if it would be a smart career decision to leave an undefeated and #12 ranked Baylor program for a rebuild project at USC. If I were in Matt Rhule's position, I wouldn't leave for anything less than an A-list job. Better to just stay put and keep building at Baylor than to try to pull-off a rebuild at a non-blueblood program in the brutal SEC.

Joe Morrison was 10-1 at New Mexico, National Coach of the Year when he was hired. I don't think Holtz and Spurrier not being pulled away from a P5 school diminished their stature.

Steve Spurrier's final season was 2-4 not 3-9 and he wasn't around for the Citadel game.

South Carolina's in good company in the SEC where championships are concerned. Since the start of the championship game, only 5 teams have won it.

Tell me about Baylor's great season at the end of the season, if they're #12 after playing Oklahoma I'll join the Matt Ruhle fan club.

 

[WOFJRP]

So lesser competition than Rhule faced?

I saw the Marshall and Boise State teams Tressel beat and they'd run Ruhle's Temple team out of the stadium. The overarching point is Ruhle lost to every good team he played at Temple and his biggest accomplishment so far is beating Kansas State.

No offense, but how old are you?

 

[JDishnell]

I saw the Marshall and Boise State teams Tressel beat and they'd run Ruhle's Temple team out of the stadium. The overarching point is Ruhle lost to every good team he played at Temple and his biggest accomplishment so far is beating Kansas State.

No offense, but how old are you?

So now you've shifted the goalposts to hypothetical matchups

 

[WOFJRP]

So now you've shifted the goalposts to hypothetical matchups

That's from observing both teams playing. This really isn't that hard to understand, Tressel consistently beat the best teams he faced Rhule has yet to do that. He lost to some cupcakes last year and this year he has an awe-inspiring record against teams like Rice, UTSA, Stephen F. Austin.