Reached the level of success that Clemson has in football? I just dont understand it,we have the fan support, facilities ,money,and conference affiliation to be as successful as any team in the country in my opinion.
What is the underlying reason South Carolina hasn't
- Thread starter FrankiegoestoDollywood
- Start date
Because we haven’t hired a bag man to do the work of paying, I mean helping player’s families...
As Gamecock fans, we give money to our church to serve God. Clemson fans give to their church to pay 18 year old kids to come play for Clemson. That's the biggest difference but the PED'S help also.
Because we don’t recruit as well as Clemson. I don’t know why that is, but I think that’s the short answer.
We old Carolina alumni have been posing that question for over half a century. The answer I think is that Clemson football has had a more loyal fan base and more support from the trustees than we have. The record speaks for itself.
Lets start with an easier question like " what is the meaning of life" then work our way up to the hard stuff like why the Gamecocks haven't succeeded in football.
I know that in the 70's and 80's, there was a lot of unwanted influence being exerted on the athletic program by certain trustees and board members who believed they knew better than coaches and athletic staff. Throw in the whole Holderman debacle and you in up with a cluster.
Clemson got a once in a generation player in Deshaun Watson that created success that allowed higher level recruiting and to build the program. Plus a staff that kept grinding through mid level success.
We were breaching mid level success under Spurrier but our staff stopped grinding and building.
We were breaching mid level success under Spurrier but our staff stopped grinding and building.
ONE reason :we've been trying to imitate the academic and athletics success of the 'Other' Carolina when, in fact, we should have been checking out what UGA was doing.
GandBinNC
GarnetTrust.com Member/Supporter
This. While Danny Ford was building a championship program at CU, South Carolina was saddled by the destabilizing forces of politics and a weak AD structure. Rather than a strong AD to tie the athletic department together, we had a cult of personality with fiefdoms led by Carlen and McGuire, with the University president essentially acting as AD. The BOT's loyalties were similarly split, as was the fanbase's loyalties. Also, an unhealthy amount of influence by pols across Sumter Street from the Horseshoe, primarily those named Blatt. It was a poisonous set of circumstances.
Prior to that, we allowed one man (Dietzel) to lead us out of the ACC with no plan for the future, which led to 20 years in the wilderness of college athletics.
Carolina has only existed under a strong AD structure since Marcum came on board in '82. It has steadily improved since then, but the athletic department was so fractured and destabilized from decades of the factors previously mentioned, it has been a long, slow process toward recovery.
Add to all of this, the mixed blessing of SEC membership since '92, with annual top ten strength of schedule in football, while Clemson mops up in a much weaker ACC, and that, my friend, is a good start to answering your question.
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After USC beat them 5 years in a row, the hold back full pledged win any way they can came out. Suddenly getting 5 star players out of Florida with lake homes for their girl friends and soon to be new borns. Piles of cash waved on the internet from signees, no action on players that break the law. A deal with the NCAA about no investigations while they build their current influx of players. Now the last piece of the puzzle, PEDs building up said players. Don't forget the last 2 years of no competition conference.
From Wikipedia: The Board of Trustees banned participation in football for the 1906 season after the faculty complained that the coarseness of chants and cheers, yelled by the students at football games, were not gentlemanly in nature.
A precedent was set and the Board has been sticking their fingers where they don't belong ever since.
A precedent was set and the Board has been sticking their fingers where they don't belong ever since.
I’m pretty sure the meaning of life is somewhere between awesome ladies and falling in love with them add in beaches & tropical drink s,
Faith & family are up there too.
Football is a constant mystery like the RPO
Which used to just be called the option
This is true recently. Historically, because our Athletic Department and Board are a bunch of ass grabbing good old boys that couldn't manage my sock drawer. Tanner is all about tradition, it seems, cause that guy is a throwback to King Dixon.
If Tanner is as similar to King Dixon as you suggest, then we are DOOMED! Dixon SUCKED as an AD@
GandBinNC
GarnetTrust.com Member/Supporter
Dixon may have been over his head as AD, and he certainly botched the George Felton situation and subsequent coaching search, which produced Steve Newton.
But we should all remember that Carolina received its invitation to join the SEC under his watch. That, plus the fact that he was a dyed in the wool "Carolina man" (a rarity in the history of our administration), makes his athletic directorship a notably important one.
Ok this is tough pill to swallow but here it is .... Expectations and Accountablity . We accept mediocrity and chalk it up to “Well it’s Carolina Football , it is what it is “ and they don’t . Tommy Bowden could have coached here for 20 years and we would have been happy as s@$t to go 8-4 every year and be bowl eligible . Look at Ken Hatfield’s record after Danny Ford .... they fired him for it . We accept that being Competitive and bowl eligible is good enough , they don’t . What does Dabo do his first day , fires his OC . What happens after Tavon Austin and WVU drop 70 on them in the Orange Bowl... DC is fired immediately and they break the bank on Venerables . Elite programs are elite because they demand Elite Results and not excuses . Hell we are already making excuses for next season and the season is barely over . That’s the difference . If we go 5-7 next year I GUARANTEE nothing happens . We blame the schedule , injuries , Spurrier , facilities , referees , global warming , honeybee decline , immigration , Santa Claus etc etc etc .. Its a simple equation .. we don’t win big because we don’t recruit big . We don’t recruit big because we don’t win . We don’t win big because other than 3 or four years in our history do we have coaches capable of beating teams with with superior talent . Sucks but it is what it is . If we would have hired Spurrier from Duke before he got to UF , who knows where we might be . Muschamp has done a hell of a job rebuilding and recruiting but until that translates into knocking off quality opponents the circle keeps going and the Gap gets wider and wider .
"Steve Spurrier got lazy", is the answer to the OP. He admitted as much after he decided to leave the program while explaining what happened to the program. He was / we were in the catbird seat with 5 consecutive wins against our in state rivals. We were recruiting well enough to play with any team until he thought his name was good enough to attract top recruits. I like Spurrier, and I'm thankful for the memories that I may not have had he not coached for us, but his complacency hurt us.
It wasn't long ago they were asking the same thing when Spurrier was waxing that ass. Our staff stopped after they got bored while their staff kept working and supporters started buying run down car washes etc. after it went undetected with the $$$ they had to dish to Watson was handed out. No team has the turn around they have had in the short amount of time without dusting some palms it's common sense so don't ask me to prove it. Now they are winning big and recruiting has gotten easier for them but it all started the day Watson decided his lifetime dream was to play for Clemson. That's what I have heard and I'm sticking to it.
Our program didn't start with Steve Spurrier. He was a bright spot in an otherwise desolate history of sucking.
They have recruited at a real high level at the most important positions for the last 5-6 years. They have arguably the best coordinators in college football, that don't seem to want to move on to head coaching gigs (this also makes recruiting easier). They also develop and bring their players along by playing them a bunch of snaps throughout the season (something I wish Muschamps would do more of).
I think a lot of our Asst, Coaches leaving under Spurrier(Ellis to Southern Miss for God knows why), Lawing, Beamer, etc, really hurt. Every time SOS hired an Asst, we would hear all these big names thrown out and he would hire someone nobody heard of half the time. I really think some of that went back to when he was a no-name and someone gave him a chance. I think he wanted to give some of those coaches a chance like he got. However, you just can`t do that in the SEC, which it looks like Muschamp knows considering his hires - they all seem to have some good connections and are good recruiters. Then Jr. is Recruiting coordinator. The man has what, 7 kids? Its a wonder how he survived, much less recruited.
It is recruiting. And for a variety of reasons.and of course, just like every other message board that has a mediocre football program, many like to accuse that the others are paying folks off, and not that they may be doing things better. And here is the honest truth, if everybody else is handing out the cash, then you better put yourself on an even playing field. But there are a couple of reasons Clemson is more successful in recruiting. And they were becoming more successful during their five year losing streak to USC. One.....their staff. Hardly any turnover. That comes into play. And hate to say it, but Dabo. We can't stand him, but the rest of the football world seems to be enamored with him. He has almost become some type of cult hero. Don't have that at USC. And maybe most importantly is the schedule. They may have one ACC game each year that is competitive. They can roll out the balls and win 9- 10 games. USC doesn't have that luxury. Playing a schedule like USC has next year becomes a cumulative thing. It wears a team down as the year goes along. USC could finish fourth in the east and not look very good. But could get in the ACC championship game if in the division that produced Pitt for their representative. And one needs to put wins together to really generate the buzz that gets the recruiting at that level. Being one of two schools in a small state that doesn't produce enough D1 players for one school makes that even more difficult. And when three of the people in your division are traditional football powers, it doesn't make things easier to turn around. It is just a difficult situation that there are no easy answers to.
Clemson's didn't start with Danny Ford either. They had some success under Ford but became semi-mediocre some time afterward.
I'm not sure I understand your point. I believe if Spurrier had not become complacent in recruiting, we would have continued winning some of the recruiting battles that has made Clemson so successful. Success breeds success "Mia Hamm".
Clemson hit a grand slam home run with the Swinney hire. South Carolina hasn't hit jackpot on a hire like that.
We refuse to pay players and do other things. Take care of the parents, etc. Before you say they don't do that and you are bitter read the probation they received in the 80s
With the exception of SMUs death penalty it's the worst probation a school has ever received. A 2 year ban from TV and a bowl game for starters and the ACC added a 3rd year. Can you imagine today if for 3 years you couldn't play a game on TV or go to a bowl game? It would kill a program. You will never convince me they aren't doing it again.
I have talked about this before on here. We can’t go back to the 20’s, 30’s, 40’s and so on and get a tradition in football. They had Heisman and Frank Howard as coaches and won a lot of games back then. Then Danny Ford made the 80’s a solid decade winning a championship and dominating the ACC. They did ok while in the 90’s and with Tommy Bowden but Dabo has taken it to another level. They were on the forefront of the social media front and mailings as well. The graphics team was killing it and now others are catching on and mimicking what they are doing. They have Tradition in football and we don’t. It makes it tough for us. Especially when Florida, Tennessee and Georgia are in our conference. We brag about our SEC ties and then bitch because we have a tough schedule. We need to beat those guys and the rest of the east. Plain and simple. It is an opportunity.
Go to a site called teamrankings.com and compare Clemson's strength of schedule with UofSC over the last few years. The results may surprise you...
And before you ask, yes, you can compare just the regular season schedules. Same results.
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A very factual answer. Dabo came in with the bama mentality that he was groomed under which is WIN or else. He sold the old AD, university admins, BOT, and fanbase and he got what he needed to go win big. After a lot of success, the staff up there stays because they get paid and give results. But as you mentioned, it took him less than 1 day to fire his OC because he didn't think he was the right guy. Same thing with the DC after the WVU blowout.
Don't need to go anywhere to see anything. You guys have been good but the likes of FSU, UM, UNC, VT, GT, Louisville and others have had either poor coaching hires past or present, that the way has been paved for y'all. There is no team in the ACC prepared to compete against Clemson for the next few years and that is a fact. And it's been this way the past few years.
Hell, you should be laughing all the way to the playoffs.
