A twist on the " fire Holbrook" question!

[biggs#]

I had a few thoughts this morning on my way to the gym. And I am curious what the rest of you think.

In the past, I have been on the side of Holbrook, and I have been quite vocal about not understanding why so many people want his head on a platter. That said, over the course of the season, the dramatic downfall of this team from preseason top 5 to possibly not even making the tournament, has convinced me to reconsider my stance and be open to the possibility of moving on from Coach Holbrook. I'm not sure if he is the guy for the job long-term or not, but I do know this! If this team wins the SEC tournament, advances in the NCAA tournament to Omaha, and wins a game or two there, then there is no doubt in my mind the Chad Holbrook deserves a contract extension!

If the scenario plays itself out as I described in the above paragraph, then it would be no different than what the men's basketball team accomplished just a little over a month ago! In fact, I think it would be even more impressive considering that Clark Schmidt (The staff ace), is not available to help this team make a run! That would be like asking Frank Martin to do what he did without Thornwell. The one difference Holbrook has that Frank Martin didn't, was that Holbrook has a roster with more raw talent than Martin did!

I have always maintained that baseball, more than any other sport, is the hardest game to predict, because of the unlimited number of things can happen once the ball leaves the pitchers hand and crosses the plate. That is precisely why I have such a hard time always blaming the head coach when things go wrong. I am looking forward to hearing everyone else's thoughts on this!

Go Cocks and Forever to Thee!

 

[BT Gamecock]

If he gets the team into Omaha, give him next year. I don't think that warrants a multiple year extension. Next year will be a real test. We lose quite a bit of talent. If he does well next year, then talk about an extension.

 

[Kitchenlabs]

If he doesn't win today, we will not make the tournament, and he should not be retained.

 

[world famous 3rd base hecklers]

I said this in another post...

This is coach has his back up against the wall, starting the season ranked #4 in the country to the end of the season trying to play their way in the NCAA Regionals...

We may not in yet, might need to beat LSU today and maybe that might get us in..

We can drive runs with runners in scoring position with less than 1 out..

We're not a fundamental sound team...

You have to hit the ball, catch the ball and throw the ball... We can't do that without shooting our own foot and lose the games in late innings...

Looks good now, but the future doesn't..

 

[paladin181]

I said this in another post...

This is coach has his back up against the wall, starting the season ranked #4 in the country to the end of the season trying to play their way in the NCAA Regionals...

We may not in yet, might need to beat LSU today and maybe that might get us in..

We can drive runs with runners in scoring position with less than 1 out..

We're not a fundamental sound team...

You have to hit the ball, catch the ball and throw the ball... We can't do that without shooting our own foot and lose the games in late innings...

Looks good now, but the future doesn't..

Were you as good at your job when you first started as you are today?People learn, adjust and grow. Chad may just be doing that. You have to give him a chance to continue if we're trending in the right direction. Overall, we haven't, but a run this year means there may be something there. You don't throw out a coach because he was learning and figured it out. Of course it could be something else too. Fundamentally his team this year particularly have looked dismal. But if anyone, I think Tanner would recognize that and either tell him how to fix it (in general terms) or realize that someone else needs to.

 

[CockFamily6]

Sorry but we would have to go real deep in the tournament to give him another year for me. Just making it in will not do. Under Chad I feel like we have dropped in all phases of the game fielding, pitching, hitting, strategy, and motivation. It started his first year when we lost to nc on the road in the Supers. We blew them out one game and lost two close ones where our defense was making little league type errors. We are the definition of an elite program in baseball, tradition of winning, great recruiting, incredible venue, and very supportive fans. Our players and fans deserve better than this sh!t Chad has put on the field for five years now. I'll never pull for us to lose, I love our baseball program but this little run does not need to cloud the judgement of where we are this season. If we go on a great run I realize we'll keep him for sure but I would have to ask where was that motivation all year long.

 

[bushmastercock]

I had a few thoughts this morning on my way to the gym. And I am curious what the rest of you think.

In the past, I have been on the side of Holbrook, and I have been quite vocal about not understanding why so many people want his head on a platter. That said, over the course of the season, the dramatic downfall of this team from preseason top 5 to possibly not even making the tournament, has convinced me to reconsider my stance and be open to the possibility of moving on from Coach Holbrook. I'm not sure if he is the guy for the job long-term or not, but I do know this! If this team wins the SEC tournament, advances in the NCAA tournament to Omaha, and wins a game or two there, then there is no doubt in my mind the Chad Holbrook deserves a contract extension!

If the scenario plays itself out as I described in the above paragraph, then it would be no different than what the men's basketball team accomplished just a little over a month ago! In fact, I think it would be even more impressive considering that Clark Schmidt (The staff ace), is not available to help this team make a run! That would be like asking Frank Martin to do what he did without Thornwell. The one difference Holbrook has that Frank Martin didn't, was that Holbrook has a roster with more raw talent than Martin did!

I have always maintained that baseball, more than any other sport, is the hardest game to predict, because of the unlimited number of things can happen once the ball leaves the pitchers hand and crosses the plate. That is precisely why I have such a hard time always blaming the head coach when things go wrong. I am looking forward to hearing everyone else's thoughts on this!

Go Cocks and Forever to Thee!

The difference between Martin and Holbrook is simple. Martin is building, Holbrook is tearing down. Martin had to build a program at a school long removed from being a perennial power. Holbrook had to maintain a perennial power and getting to Omaha every 5 years or so is expected. To compare what Martin accomplished to a "what if "scenario that Holbrook hasn't come close to in 5yrs is a stretch and not even close to a fair comparison.

I think most fans see the poor execution, poor coaching decisions, and lack of mental toughness on this team as reasons for a change. If Holbrook accomplishes the "what if" scenario you mentioned this year then give him a bonus, tell him to maintain, and an extension will be a possibility at the end of next year. You should be ashamed for belittling what Martin did.

 

[bushmastercock]

Were you as good at your job when you first started as you are today?People learn, adjust and grow. Chad may just be doing that. You have to give him a chance to continue if we're trending in the right direction. Overall, we haven't, but a run this year means there may be something there. You don't throw out a coach because he was learning and figured it out. Of course it could be something else too. Fundamentally his team this year particularly have looked dismal. But if anyone, I think Tanner would recognize that and either tell him how to fix it (in general terms) or realize that someone else needs to.

Do you give him an extension?

 

[jbouton]

Do you give him an extension?

No. Next year will prove if this staff can coach. Especially our pitching coach. They will earn their money.

 

[Kitchenlabs]

Do you give him an extension?

Absolutely not

 

[world famous 3rd base hecklers]

Were you as good at your job when you first started as you are today?People learn, adjust and grow. Chad may just be doing that. You have to give him a chance to continue if we're trending in the right direction. Overall, we haven't, but a run this year means there may be something there. You don't throw out a coach because he was learning and figured it out. Of course it could be something else too. Fundamentally his team this year particularly have looked dismal. But if anyone, I think Tanner would recognize that and either tell him how to fix it (in general terms) or realize that someone else needs to.

5 years later from CWS and still learning?

 

[Kitchenlabs]

Sorry but we would have to go real deep in the tournament to give him another year for me. Just making it in will not do. Under Chad I feel like we have dropped in all phases of the game fielding, pitching, hitting, strategy, and motivation. It started his first year when we lost to nc on the road in the Supers. We blew them out one game and lost two close ones where our defense was making little league type errors. We are the definition of an elite program in baseball, tradition of winning, great recruiting, incredible venue, and very supportive fans. Our players and fans deserve better than this sh!t Chad has put on the field for five years now. I'll never pull for us to lose, I love our baseball program but this little run does not need to cloud the judgement of where we are this season. If we go on a great run I realize we'll keep him for sure but I would have to ask where was that motivation all year long.

Agree with you completely.

 

[photontorpedotube]

The margin between winning and losing in the SEC is very close. Players need to execute or you lose a lot of close games. Managers need to make good decisions or you lose a lot of close games. The most troubling thing I perceive is a possible chemistry issue. Tanner is in the best position to evaluate and understand whether there is an issue there or not.

 

[biggs#]

The difference between Martin and Holbrook is simple. Martin is building, Holbrook is tearing down. Martin had to build a program at a school long removed from being a perennial power. Holbrook had to maintain a perennial power and getting to Omaha every 5 years or so is expected. To compare what Martin accomplished to a "what if "scenario that Holbrook hasn't come close to in 5yrs is a stretch and not even close to a fair comparison.

I think most fans see the poor execution, poor coaching decisions, and lack of mental toughness on this team as reasons for a change. If Holbrook accomplishes the "what if" scenario you mentioned this year then give him a bonus, tell him to maintain, and an extension will be a possibility at the end of next year. You should be ashamed for belittling what Martin did.

Bushmastercock, I love how you twisted my comparison of the Martin versus Holbrook situation into "you should be ashamed for belittling with Martin did"

Nowhere in my statement did I belittle what Martin did! To suggest that is what I was trying to do, quite frankly, is irresponsible on your part.

I clearly stated that "IF" he wins the SEC tournament AND makes it to Omaha, then the two situations are comparable! Nowhere in that statement did I remotely come close to taking away from what Martin accomplished. You are very good at twisting words.

In fact, I agreed with every statement you said right up until the very last sentence when you chose to take a shot at me and put words in my mouth.

 

[uscg1984]

Were you as good at your job when you first started as you are today?People learn, adjust and grow.

Yes, they do, but nobody plucked me from a group of assistant managers and put me in charge of one of the biggest corporations in America either. That's the situation we have here. The head coach position of the premier college program in the country is not a place for on-the-job training. We don't have to give a guy 8 years to build up his skills before deciding he isn't the guy.

As to the OP's original question, of course you can't fire a guy in a year that he takes you to Omaha. But don't hold your breath that this team is going to make that kind of run. The basketball team's run was completely unexpected. However, up until February, the basketball team had looked like it could be one of the better teams in the country (remember when we ran Syracuse and Michigan out of the gym and beat a good Florida team?). This baseball team didn't have a late season swoon. At no point this season have they looked like a contender.

 

[bushmastercock]

Bushmastercock, I love how you twisted my comparison of the Martin versus Holbrook situation into "you should be ashamed for belittling with Martin did"

Nowhere in my statement did I belittle what Martin did! To suggest that is what I was trying to do, quite frankly, is irresponsible on your part.

I clearly stated that "IF" he wins the SEC tournament AND makes it to Omaha, then the two situations are comparable! Nowhere in that statement did I remotely come close to taking away from what Martin accomplished. You are very good at twisting words.

In fact, I agreed with every statement you said right up until the very last sentence when you chose to take a shot at me and put words in my mouth.

Actually I was just messing with ya. Just trolling

 

[flatwoodcock]

5 years later from CWS and still learning?

Five years is long enough for any coach in any sport to prove themselves and the only thing Holbrooke has proven to me is he sucks making decisions. Yeah they are making a run in the SEC tourney but why has it taken until now? If the homerun by the DH wouldn't have happened, we would be out of the tourney now. CH got lucky on that one but it worked. We will see what they do with LSU today.

 

[jbouton]

Five years is long enough for any coach in any sport to prove themselves and the only thing Holbrooke has proven to me is he sucks making decisions. Yeah they are making a run in the SEC tourney but why has it taken until now? If the homerun by the DH wouldn't have happened, we would be out of the tourney now. CH got lucky on that one but it worked. We will see what they do with LSU today.

I can remember RT getting some plays on decisions also. Pinch hit, playing one guy in place of another etc. Ray ha even spoke on this over the years . With this said I agree CH has not loved up to the coach I thought he would. It only matters however what RT thinks. GO Cocks let's win today.

 

[pepsicock]

He is staying another year . Bank on it

 

[rogue cock]

I said this in another post...

This is coach has his back up against the wall, starting the season ranked #4 in the country to the end of the season trying to play their way in the NCAA Regionals...

We may not in yet, might need to beat LSU today and maybe that might get us in..

We can drive runs with runners in scoring position with less than 1 out..

We're not a fundamental sound team...

You have to hit the ball, catch the ball and throw the ball... We can't do that without shooting our own foot and lose the games in late innings...

Looks good now, but the future doesn't..

THIS!! We have poor fundamentals all around. Right now this team has no pressure on them, they have been playing just to be playing. It's almost as if the coach took the reins off and said We're done coaching....go have fun..... And they did.

 

[biggs#]

Remember what I said beginning of this thread? Yeah...nevermind! Ooooof!

 

[paladin181]

5 years later from CWS and still learning?

I still learn new things everyday. Yes. I don't feel that this should be his learning experience. But if he starts to get it you keep him on. If he CAN be a championship caliber coach and gets close soon, we would be remiss to not keep him. Ray wasn't a championship caliber coach when he came to us. Chad isn't yet either. He's had his chance, but if he shows the capability we owe him the chance to continue.

 

[paladin181]

Do you give him an extension?

Not yet. But if he makes Omaha he gets a pass till next year.

 

[paladin181]

Yes, they do, but nobody plucked me from a group of assistant managers and put me in charge of one of the biggest corporations in America either. That's the situation we have here. The head coach position of the premier college program in the country is not a place for on-the-job training. We don't have to give a guy 8 years to build up his skills before deciding he isn't the guy.

As to the OP's original question, of course you can't fire a guy in a year that he takes you to Omaha. But don't hold your breath that this team is going to make that kind of run. The basketball team's run was completely unexpected. However, up until February, the basketball team had looked like it could be one of the better teams in the country (remember when we ran Syracuse and Michigan out of the gym and beat a good Florida team?). This baseball team didn't have a late season swoon. At no point this season have they looked like a contender.

This is basically the point I've been trying to make. As long as he has success and continues in the right way, you keep him on. 8 years is not an expectation. After 5 years we see enough to know he is probably not the guy, but if he gets to Omaha and has a good season next year, we have to say he's at least moving in the right direction.

 

[MT4125]

Not yet. But if he makes Omaha he gets a pass till next year.

Look at the score; says it all for the season and for what I hope will be our FORMER coach.

 

[paladin181]

Look at the score; says it all for the season and for what I hope will be our FORMER coach.

Fair enough. We're getting shellacked out there.

 

[cocknjax]

Sorry but we would have to go real deep in the tournament to give him another year for me. Just making it in will not do. Under Chad I feel like we have dropped in all phases of the game fielding, pitching, hitting, strategy, and motivation. It started his first year when we lost to nc on the road in the Supers. We blew them out one game and lost two close ones where our defense was making little league type errors. We are the definition of an elite program in baseball, tradition of winning, great recruiting, incredible venue, and very supportive fans. Our players and fans deserve better than this sh!t Chad has put on the field for five years now. I'll never pull for us to lose, I love our baseball program but this little run does not need to cloud the judgement of where we are this season. If we go on a great run I realize we'll keep him for sure but I would have to ask where was that motivation all year long.

Third sentence there nails it, with emphasis on "motivation".
And throw in there somewhere, must have a basic knowledge of Coaching, in order to coach.
Seems woefully lacking to me.

 

[uofsc]

Were you as good at your job when you first started as you are today?People learn, adjust and grow. Chad may just be doing that. You have to give him a chance to continue if we're trending in the right direction. Overall, we haven't, but a run this year means there may be something there. You don't throw out a coach because he was learning and figured it out. Of course it could be something else too. Fundamentally his team this year particularly have looked dismal. But if anyone, I think Tanner would recognize that and either tell him how to fix it (in general terms) or realize that someone else needs to.

"To whom much is given, much will be required"

 

[Garnet chicken]

This is basically the point I've been trying to make. As long as he has success and continues in the right way, you keep him on. 8 years is not an expectation. After 5 years we see enough to know he is probably not the guy, but if he gets to Omaha and has a good season next year, we have to say he's at least moving in the right direction.

Next year will not be better. Do you keep the Coach just to save money or let the program continue to slide?

 

[paladin181]

Next year will not be better. Do you keep the Coach just to save money or let the program continue to slide?

You don't keep him for next year unless he makes it to Omaha, honestly. That's why that part was included.

 

[anon_n4c0cp5zhdxn7]

Given him another chance is one thing but contract extension? Seems like it would be almost impossible to justify that, this year, plus, would would put us on the hook for another year of buyout.

 

[USCAndy]

No. Next year will prove if this staff can coach. Especially our pitching coach. They will earn their money.

Five years isn't enough to prove to you Holbrook can't coach? Again, look at the program five years ago and look at it today. What else needs to be said!

 

[tailgatecock]

If he doesn't win today, we will not make the tournament, and he should not be retained.

Ok, wow! Not a Chad fan, but getting us this far in the tournament positions us much better!

 

[IrmoRed]

Many forget Celmsno was a national seed who hit a hot OSU squad. That's why we had a home super. Also we lost 1 in OUR regional we should not have.(UNCW?)
Chad is not our guy, but he will be back because of us having a run in Hoover.
No extension or I will truly lose it in regards to Tanner.

 

[Kitchenlabs]

Many forget Celmsno was a national seed who hit a hot OSU squad. That's why we had a home super. Also we lost 1 in OUR regional we should not have.(UNCW?)
Chad is not our guy, but he will be back because of us having a run in Hoover.
No extension or I will truly lose it in regards to Tanner.

The run in Hoover is too little too late. He lost 8 straight sec series. That cannot be swept under the rug. Also the fans do NOT want him back. If Tanner keeps him, it will be a very precarious situation.