Why our team is so far behind that cow pile to north.

[GivEmDaSpurs]

look at their board, president, AD, boosters, and coach They are all pulling in the same direction there. They also demand a winner.

Us? We don’t demand anything. We aim low and for whatever reason we have some sort of self loathing complex. Our board is all political so our hires are all political. Winning is secondary.

Goose - rarely do we agree. But you hit the nail on the head in your first part of your post. They have all bought in and are pulling in the same direction. They demand a winner and that has been evidenced by Clemson’s willingness to let a successful coach go to get better.

I also think that Dabo is one hell of a salesman and motivator. He is not given the credit due for being the biggest dopiest cheerleader for his players.

 

[castlesl]

UNC concerns me more. 2 years ago they were near or below our level. Today a top 10 ranked team and recruiting at a great level. Only 1 thing changed. They got a new HC that can absolutely run a program as well as sale it. Clemson has checked out to another stratosphere. UNC however was eye level months ago with us. Thats an amazing turnaround.

It really does show what a school that has athletic stature can do to turn a program with the right hire. While the SEC is a tougher week in and week out conference, it really comes down to the head guy.

The results at this point really shouldn’t be all that shocking, Muschamp was hired b/c every other candidate said no. It really is that simple.

 

[uscnoklahoma2]

Hyman warned us.

 

[Boomneedstogo]

He didn’t to begin with. All of the guys were considered long shots but Venables is a teacher, Morris had an offense that it easy to sell. Dabo’s biggest strength was realizing his own weaknesses and bringing in people to do what he couldn’t which is coach. He is a hell of a salesman and he was getting kids on campus long before he became HC and even when he was losing as a HC. He realized that all he needed was people who could coach the talent he could sign and the rest was history.

They got away from us when Spurrier checked out and put Jr over recruiting and just gave up looking for assistant coaches. They pulled away when Tanner completely blew the transition opportunity he had and brought in a guy who thinks he’s the total package as a coach. If you didnt think Muschamp would be a disaster at the announcement when he said he was bringing in Roper it was over.

Dabo is more of an X’s and O’s Coach than any of you care to admit. You don’t win 2 national championships without coaching x’s and 0s

 

[castlesl]

Goose - rarely do we agree. But you hit the nail on the head in your first part of your post. They have all bought in and are pulling in the same direction. They demand a winner and that has been evidenced by Clemson’s willingness to let a successful coach go to get better.

I also think that Dabo is one hell of a salesman and motivator. He is not given the credit due for being the biggest dopiest cheerleader for his players.

I have asked this before, and never gotten much of a response. What is the BOT doing to hold back the program? Or not doing that would help the program?

They are not responsible for hiring or firing. The reason i ask, is as soon as Clemson built its massive state of the art complex for football operations, Champ said that he needed one and they built one.

The oft cited alignment of the BOT and Admin. At Clemson was mostly about funding football projects (indoor practice facility, upgrading stadium stuff, Football operations center, etc.).

There wasn’t anything the board did beyond green light spending on project. Clemson didn’t have a football training table until just a few years ago. Most top programs have had them for many many years. So they have done more with less than most.

Clemson has some of the highest paid coaches and the Board agreed to that, but that was pretty easy to do b/c they were already winning at a high level, so it was a no brainer.

So i will say again, What is the board no doing that if they would, it would help the football program? What are they doing for WBB that makes it one of the top programs in the country?

 

[JComp]

Dabo is more of an X’s and O’s Coach than any of you care to admit. You don’t win 2 national championships without coaching x’s and 0s

I agree. He's obviously a very, very good football coach. It's a mental salve for some to claim he's just a cheerleader who has hired good coaches.

 

[uscnoklahoma2]

I have asked this before, and never gotten much of a response. What is the BOT doing to hold back the program? Or not doing that would help the program?

They are not responsible for hiring or firing. The reason i ask, is as soon as Clemson built its massive state of the art complex for football operations, Champ said that he needed one and they built one.

The oft cited alignment of the BOT and Admin. At Clemson was mostly about funding football projects (indoor practice facility, upgrading stadium stuff, Football operations center, etc.).

There wasn’t anything the board did beyond green light spending on project. Clemson didn’t have a football training table until just a few years ago. Most top programs have had them for many many years. So they have done more with less than most.

Clemson has some of the highest paid coaches and the Board agreed to that, but that was pretty easy to do b/c they were already winning at a high level, so it was a no brainer.

So i will say again, What is the board no doing that if they would, it would help the football program? What are they doing for WBB that makes it one of the top programs in the country?

It's really not their board. Its IPTAY and boosters spreading the love.

 

[Jon Snow]

I’m grunching this thread, so forgive me if I’m repeating what others have posted.

I think the way Clemson got here is pretty obvious. First, Dabo and his staff have been relentless recruiters for over a decade. They managed (one way or another) to pull in multiple 5 stars from out of state all the way back when they weren’t very good.

Next, with solid talent in place, Dabo wasn’t afraid to make quick moves on his coaching staff. Bringing in Morris and Venables really upgraded them on both sides of the ball.

Playing in a weak conference allowed Clemson to consistently win 10+games, win their conference, and play in some great bowl games. This raised their national profile..

They took all of the above and , unlike what Spurrier did, kept forward momentum. Dabo kept improving their recruiting, kept his coaching staff intact, here we are.

 

[GreatestCock]

Dabo is more of an X’s and O’s Coach than any of you care to admit. You don’t win 2 national championships without coaching x’s and 0s

I believe he has been quoted as not calling plays, only situational stuff like when to go for it on 4th down, run vs. pass, etc.

 

[JComp]

I believe he has been quoted as not calling plays, only situational stuff like when to go for it on 4th down, run vs. pass, etc.

Well, sure, that's how a HC operates. That's why there's an OC and DC. He operates like every other head coach in the country. He's in communication with his coaches throughout the game about what they should be doing. And, I'm sure like every other head coach in the country, he has veto power.

In any event, none of us really know. There's no evidence to suggest he knows nothing about football, like some suggest. There's no evidence to suggest he's involved in play calling on a detailed level.

Odds are, he functions in a role just like every other head coach in the country. I don't know why some expect Dabo to do what no other head coach in the country does and call every single offensive and defensive play in the game.

 

[Boomneedstogo]

Well, sure, that's how a HC operates. That's why there's an OC and DC. He operates like every other head coach in the country. He's in communication with his coaches throughout the game about what they should be doing. And, I'm sure like every other head coach in the country, he has veto power.

In any event, none of us really know. There's no evidence to suggest he knows nothing about football, like some suggest. There's no evidence to suggest he's involved in play calling on a detailed level.

Odds are, he functions in a role just like every other head coach in the country. I don't know why some expect Dabo to do what no other head coach in the country does and call every single offensive and defensive play in the game.

Precisely, Saban is not calling all his plays either.

 

[bucketdad]

This is a crazy statement! First, right now, the ACC has 3 schools in the top 10. Second, you say that players want the easiest path to the NFL. Do you watch the NFL? Former upstate players are playing all over the league. If they sucked, they would be drummed out of the league! Lastly, I think the highlighted part of your rant says it all. When you are constantly winning on National TV, the best high school players in the country want to play with you! Winners attract winners. Don't whine about what the upstate team is doing, just try to copy it. Simpler said than done!! I see you must be from South Florida, are you also a Miami fan? Did you expect the Hurricanes to make a better showing? I did, but apparently the gap has not gotten much closer.....yet.

You mention the ACC having 3 teams in the top ten and then go on to say Miami hasnt closed the gap. Are you saying Miami was not worthy of a top ten ranking... a ranking that was gifted to them preseason? You seem to be all over the place with your post.

 

[Boomneedstogo]

You mention the ACC having 3 teams in the top ten and then go on to say Miami hasnt closed the gap. Are you saying Miami was not worthy of a top ten ranking... a ranking that was gifted to them preseason? You seem to be all over the place with your post.

Man you need some reading comprehension skills. He meant even though Miami is a top ten team they still have not closed the gap on Clemson because they are on a whole different level and only about 3 teams are on that level.

 

[Dizzy01]

Dabo is more of an X’s and O’s Coach than any of you care to admit. You don’t win 2 national championships without coaching x’s and 0s

There is a reason why those championships came after the OC and DC moves. A head coach doesn’t have to be an Xs and Os guy. They have to be a CEO and a motivator to make sure everyone is on the same page. Some guys can be both but that isn’t always the case.

Mack Brown is another perfect example as there are tons of stories about how much of a CEO he is. He rarely gets involved in the day to day actions and per people involved with ESPN when gameday would come to Texas he would hang out in the production truck watching games and talking with the analysts until it was time for pregame speeches.

The best coaches are the guys who surround themselves with people who can fill in their gaps.

 

[SLODAWG]

First of all with the demise of football at most of the ACC schools, elite talent that FSU was getting is going to NW SC. There is some talent
That just wants the easiest way to
Play in the NFL. When year in and year out you don’t play any top 10 talent in your conference and you gun for those games against
Elite college teams your almost guaranteed a place in the NCG. Plus when you’ve been winning for 7-8 years and making National tv appearances all or a sudden you can be choosy and only recruit 5* talent.
compare that to us. We’re in a strong conference with schedules that are among the toughest around. You just can’t win against schedules we’ve had with 2-3*talent. That’s mostly what we’re able to recruit. Sure we get
Some 4* and even a few 5*. But unless you start winning some games you’re not going to be able to recruit elite talent. In order to keep up with our neighbors and conference brothers we MUST start winning now and recruit more 4-5*
talent.
Next compare coaches. Dablow wanted to win now. He immediately surrounded himself with the best coaches $ can buy. He got financial support from his BOT who care about sports. Muchchamp has surrounded himself with second rate coaches. The school, BOT, and AD don’t care about winning, it’s about saving $. Until we get an AD, BOT members who care about sports and the right head coach and assistants we will continue to dwell at the bottom of the SEC. you get what you pay for!

It's also no small thing that Dabo landed a DC in Venables, who apparently has no interests in a head coaching gig - at least hasn't so far. Contrast that with Saban who seems to have to make coordinator hires every year or so.

 

[JComp]

It's also no small thing that Dabo landed a DC in Venables, who apparently has no interests in a head coaching gig - at least hasn't so far. Contrast that with Saban who seems to have to make coordinator hires every year or so.

In Clemson's first game this season, the announcers said Venables told them that sooner or later he's gonna have to start taking the calls or the calls would eventually stop coming. So it seems he's at least coming close to considering a move. He's got a sweet gig, though. Makes $2 million a year, gets to focus on his specialty, working for the top team in the country. Not sure why he'd want to go anywhere else.

Although Ellis Johnson was not on the same level as Venables, it reminds somewhat of that. Ellis had a good gig here as DC, but couldn't fight the itch to be a head coach again. It went disastrously.

You have a few guys out there who love what they do and don't have that itch to move up to head coach. That seems to have been Venables mindset up to this point.

 

[SLODAWG]

In Clemson's first game this season, the announcers said Venables told them that sooner or later he's gonna have to start taking the calls or the calls would eventually stop coming. So it seems he's at least coming close to considering a move. He's got a sweet gig, though. Makes $2 million a year, gets to focus on his specialty, working for the top team in the country. Not sure why he'd want to go anywhere else.

Although Ellis Johnson was not on the same level as Venables, it reminds somewhat of that. Ellis had a good gig here as DC, but couldn't fight the itch to be a head coach again. It went disastrously.

You have a few guys out there who love what they do and don't have that itch to move up to head coach. That seems to have been Venables mindset up to this point.

I'm not being critical. It's just very rare to have a guy who is as sought after as Venables probably is, to be content to sit tight for as long as he has. It is certainly to Dabo's benefit that he hasn't had to search for one (or more) DCs over the time Venables has been on staff there.

 

[leftneck]

Venables is an odd dude. I know yahoo printed an article saying that he feels the time for a head coaching gig is approaching, but it was all speculation and had no quotes from the man himself. I mean, if you are turning down interviews with FSU pre-Taggart, then I don't know what kind of opportunity you are waiting for.

Personally, I believe he and Swinney ride off into the sunset together...counting they money and trophies and laughing all the way.

 

[USC75Grad]

Venables is an odd dude. I know yahoo printed an article saying that he feels the time for a head coaching gig is approaching, but it was all speculation and had no quotes from the man himself. I mean, if you are turning down interviews with FSU pre-Taggart, then I don't know what kind of opportunity you are waiting for.

Personally, I believe he and Swinney ride off into the sunset together...counting they money and trophies and laughing all the way.

I believe Venables has always looked for job security, and would be nervous if put in the head coaching position anywhere. Swinney offers that security for Venables.

 

[GivEmDaSpurs]

I have asked this before, and never gotten much of a response. What is the BOT doing to hold back the program? Or not doing that would help the program?

They are not responsible for hiring or firing. The reason i ask, is as soon as Clemson built its massive state of the art complex for football operations, Champ said that he needed one and they built one.

The oft cited alignment of the BOT and Admin. At Clemson was mostly about funding football projects (indoor practice facility, upgrading stadium stuff, Football operations center, etc.).

There wasn’t anything the board did beyond green light spending on project. Clemson didn’t have a football training table until just a few years ago. Most top programs have had them for many many years. So they have done more with less than most.

Clemson has some of the highest paid coaches and the Board agreed to that, but that was pretty easy to do b/c they were already winning at a high level, so it was a no brainer.

So i will say again, What is the board no doing that if they would, it would help the football program? What are they doing for WBB that makes it one of the top programs in the country?

Most of this is money and attitude.

For example-
Tommy Bowden was let go after a 9-4 season.

Another example-
“On one visiting weekend in 2019, Dabo Swinney and company shelled out a whopping $85,000 on lodging and amenities for his prospective proteges. For the sake of only eleven high schoolers, the university went all out in preparing lavish rooms and meals involving expensive seafood and steaks.” Per 12up.com.

When Swinney first took over at Clemson, the program’s annual recruiting budget was $292,595. For the latest recruiting cycle, the Tigers have spent $2.9 million on a single recruiting budget according to Jason Clary and Manie Robinson of the Greenville News. Those figures are both eye-opening and display the culture shift at Clemson under Swinney. While many programs talk about making a commitment to building a winner, few teams are willing to invest so much money and resources into actually doing it but those currently looking to build up their program may want to pay close attention to these figures.
According to the figures, South Carolina spent $1.32 million on recruiting through that same span. That ranks USC 53rd in the FBS and dead last among the 12 Southeastern Conference schools included in the report.

Dawn is exceptional. She doesn’t accept mediocrity and the school stands behind her (aka. Missouri debacle a few years). Also, look at the fan support for the WBB program. It appears as though USC takes the supportive role with Dawn that Clemson does with Dabo.

 

[ExpatCarolinian]

Venables is an odd dude. I know yahoo printed an article saying that he feels the time for a head coaching gig is approaching, but it was all speculation and had no quotes from the man himself. I mean, if you are turning down interviews with FSU pre-Taggart, then I don't know what kind of opportunity you are waiting for.

Personally, I believe he and Swinney ride off into the sunset together...counting they money and trophies and laughing all the way.

Beamer and Foster, sort of.

 

[SCExile]

...It appears as though USC takes the supportive role with Dawn that Clemson does with Dabo.

Not to be cynical (OK, I'm being cynical), but it's a hell of a lot cheaper to provide top level support to get a top WBB (or even MBB) program than it is a football program.

 

[drawplay000]

Clemson finally understands how the elites operate. They don't tinker around with their helmets or uniforms every game, they have an established brand identity for home/away. They avoid hiring head coaches who were just fired. They don't make their baseball coach the AD. They don't arrest their students/fans for storming the field after beating the #1 team in the country for the first time in school history. They encourage it. They know what it takes to win and I hope one day we will too.

Well when Clemson says “all in” that’s what they are... not sure we are even “half in”

 

[GivEmDaSpurs]

Not to be cynical (OK, I'm being cynical), but it's a hell of a lot cheaper to provide top level support to get a top WBB (or even MBB) program than it is a football program.

No disagreement here that all sports are cheaper than FB. That top level support is also easier when you are winning conference titles and national championships.

 

[Bleadgandb3334]

First of all with the demise of football at most of the ACC schools, elite talent that FSU was getting is going to NW SC. There is some talent
That just wants the easiest way to
Play in the NFL. When year in and year out you don’t play any top 10 talent in your conference and you gun for those games against
Elite college teams your almost guaranteed a place in the NCG. Plus when you’ve been winning for 7-8 years and making National tv appearances all or a sudden you can be choosy and only recruit 5* talent.
compare that to us. We’re in a strong conference with schedules that are among the toughest around. You just can’t win against schedules we’ve had with 2-3*talent. That’s mostly what we’re able to recruit. Sure we get
Some 4* and even a few 5*. But unless you start winning some games you’re not going to be able to recruit elite talent. In order to keep up with our neighbors and conference brothers we MUST start winning now and recruit more 4-5*
talent.
Next compare coaches. Dablow wanted to win now. He immediately surrounded himself with the best coaches $ can buy. He got financial support from his BOT who care about sports. Muchchamp has surrounded himself with second rate coaches. The school, BOT, and AD don’t care about winning, it’s about saving $. Until we get an AD, BOT members who care about sports and the right head coach and assistants we will continue to dwell at the bottom of the SEC. you get what you pay for!

You always get what you pay for. Stats are for losers but Jeffery Scott, fat Brad, Tammy Bowden, and Dabdumb have perfected the art of only showing you stats that support them. It’s gotten to the point that now Dabdumb doesn’t need to manipulate them anymore. Blame that on Spurrier and our athletic administration for not kicking them while they were down. Getting your ass kicked in the Orange Bowl by West Virginia is still better than going to a lower tier bowl. That’s what non of you loyalists have figured out. They sold recruits on, “we went to the Orange Bowl.” Then they sold recruits on, “you’ll get hurt if you play in the SEC.” This is all a big game and if you can’t realize that, well we’ll always get what we’ve gotten.

 

[TN-Gamecock]

I'm not being critical. It's just very rare to have a guy who is as sought after as Venables probably is, to be content to sit tight for as long as he has. It is certainly to Dabo's benefit that he hasn't had to search for one (or more) DCs over the time Venables has been on staff there.

Venables is just like the guy at VT (Bud Foster) who was content on just being a DC...a couple of million is not too shabby a gig, if that is what you love to do...

 

[AngloCock]

But we are all gas and no brakes!

 

[castlesl]

Most of this is money and attitude.

For example-
Tommy Bowden was let go after a 9-4 season.

Another example-
“On one visiting weekend in 2019, Dabo Swinney and company shelled out a whopping $85,000 on lodging and amenities for his prospective proteges. For the sake of only eleven high schoolers, the university went all out in preparing lavish rooms and meals involving expensive seafood and steaks.” Per 12up.com.

When Swinney first took over at Clemson, the program’s annual recruiting budget was $292,595. For the latest recruiting cycle, the Tigers have spent $2.9 million on a single recruiting budget according to Jason Clary and Manie Robinson of the Greenville News. Those figures are both eye-opening and display the culture shift at Clemson under Swinney. While many programs talk about making a commitment to building a winner, few teams are willing to invest so much money and resources into actually doing it but those currently looking to build up their program may want to pay close attention to these figures.
According to the figures, South Carolina spent $1.32 million on recruiting through that same span. That ranks USC 53rd in the FBS and dead last among the 12 Southeastern Conference schools included in the report.

Dawn is exceptional. She doesn’t accept mediocrity and the school stands behind her (aka. Missouri debacle a few years). Also, look at the fan support for the WBB program. It appears as though USC takes the supportive role with Dawn that Clemson does with Dabo.

I think you are making my point. The BOT doesn't decide how much money to spend on recruiting, The athletic dept. does. A lot of the money in that $2.9 million number is for jobs. Clemson has far more staffers for the graphics dept. and support positions to vet recruits than most schools. There are differences for sure, but i think Ray and Will could copy that if they wanted to. I assume they just don't think the value is there.

 

[hillstosea]

You always get what you pay for. Stats are for losers but Jeffery Scott, fat Brad, Tammy Bowden, and Dabdumb have perfected the art of only showing you stats that support them. It’s gotten to the point that now Dabdumb doesn’t need to manipulate them anymore. Blame that on Spurrier and our athletic administration for not kicking them while they were down. Getting your ass kicked in the Orange Bowl by West Virginia is still better than going to a lower tier bowl. That’s what non of you loyalists have figured out. They sold recruits on, “we went to the Orange Bowl.” Then they sold recruits on, “you’ll get hurt if you play in the SEC.” This is all a big game and if you can’t realize that, well we’ll always get what we’ve gotten.

You’ll get hurt if you play in the SEC?

 

[DiamondDave22]

First of all with the demise of football at most of the ACC schools, elite talent that FSU was getting is going to NW SC. There is some talent
That just wants the easiest way to
Play in the NFL. When year in and year out you don’t play any top 10 talent in your conference and you gun for those games against
Elite college teams your almost guaranteed a place in the NCG. Plus when you’ve been winning for 7-8 years and making National tv appearances all or a sudden you can be choosy and only recruit 5* talent.
compare that to us. We’re in a strong conference with schedules that are among the toughest around. You just can’t win against schedules we’ve had with 2-3*talent. That’s mostly what we’re able to recruit. Sure we get
Some 4* and even a few 5*. But unless you start winning some games you’re not going to be able to recruit elite talent. In order to keep up with our neighbors and conference brothers we MUST start winning now and recruit more 4-5*
talent.
Next compare coaches. Dablow wanted to win now. He immediately surrounded himself with the best coaches $ can buy. He got financial support from his BOT who care about sports. Muchchamp has surrounded himself with second rate coaches. The school, BOT, and AD don’t care about winning, it’s about saving $. Until we get an AD, BOT members who care about sports and the right head coach and assistants we will continue to dwell at the bottom of the SEC. you get what you pay for!

It is no hidden secret; the formula winning champions/ even division titles is to get more players.
You need MULTIPLE YEARS with 10+ more of 4-5* players to reach that. (We did this 2 of the 3 years prior to our best years of 2011-2013). Since there are only so many players listed only so many teams can get them.
Clemson has done well with this and honestly until Vendables leave, they will continue.
I thought we were doing well at the end of Muschamp's 2nd year ending with a 9 win season. It has really just been the last 2 years we have stumbled some.

Here is a quick snap shot of recruiting for the past 4 years...

And remember... At the end of the day... It's NIGHT! LOL

RIVAL RANKINGS
TEAM	2020	2019	2018	2017	4 year Average
Georgia	1​	1​	1​	3​	1.5​
Clemson	2​	9​	8​	22​	10.25​
Florida	8​	8​	17​	9​	10.5​
TexasA&M	6​	6​	16​	10​	9.5​
Tennessee	7​	12​	20​	15​	13.5​
Kentucky	22​	30​	30​	26​	27​
Missouri	57​	34​	39​	49​	44.75​
Vanderbilt	47​	50​	42​	58​	49.25​
SOUTH CAROLINA	17​	17​	18​	16​	17​
LSU	4​	3​	14​	8​	7.25​
East Carolina	65​	84​	85​	70​	76​

 

[Dizzy01]

But we are all gas and no brakes!

I’m pretty sure that’s just Muschamp’s chili eating philosophy.

 

[Tmac069]

And funny you mention Coastal. Gene Sapakoff just told Finebaum last week that Carolina is actually fortunate not to play Coastal this year.

Sapakoff is a Clemson homer!!

 

[Gamechamp]

They recruit more good players and develop the better.

 

[jonesz21]

Dont look now , but Clemson just offered Skinner the big TE for Greer. 2022 will be an unprecedented recruiting year for my county Greenville with 3 players in the top 150. And we may not get any of them.

Slide them some coin Jeff. We can do this

 

[castlesl]

It is no hidden secret; the formula winning champions/ even division titles is to get more players.
You need MULTIPLE YEARS with 10+ more of 4-5* players to reach that. (We did this 2 of the 3 years prior to our best years of 2011-2013). Since there are only so many players listed only so many teams can get them.
Clemson has done well with this and honestly until Vendables leave, they will continue.
I thought we were doing well at the end of Muschamp's 2nd year ending with a 9 win season. It has really just been the last 2 years we have stumbled some.

Here is a quick snap shot of recruiting for the past 4 years...

And remember... At the end of the day... It's NIGHT! LOL

RIVAL RANKINGS
TEAM	2020	2019	2018	2017	4 year Average
Georgia	1​	1​	1​	3​	1.5​
Clemson	2​	9​	8​	22​	10.25​
Florida	8​	8​	17​	9​	10.5​
TexasA&M	6​	6​	16​	10​	9.5​
Tennessee	7​	12​	20​	15​	13.5​
Kentucky	22​	30​	30​	26​	27​
Missouri	57​	34​	39​	49​	44.75​
Vanderbilt	47​	50​	42​	58​	49.25​
SOUTH CAROLINA	17​	17​	18​	16​	17​
LSU	4​	3​	14​	8​	7.25​
East Carolina	65​	84​	85​	70​	76​

Why is KY beating the cocks every year when they are averaging 27? Do they more with less?

 

[SCExile]

...Do they more with less?

Against us? Yes.