Do y'all still want to get rid of Frank?
- Thread starter Pee Dee Dawg
- Start date
He said it. He wasn't naive. He was the boss. The real world isn't touchy-feely. The only effort that gets acknowledged is the effort which ends in success - in the real world. The non-real world is where naivete reigns.
Eight to ten years? I might not have 8-10 years left. Who on here will wait 8-10 years for Frank to retire without solid results that's silly. The man does have a contract and besides that magic basketball coach dying to coach here ain't been born yet. How many basketball coaches have we been through in the past 20 years and none have set the woods on fire with tradition style seasons.....except for Frank Martin. Frank's as good as we are going to get folks history proves it.
History ain't over yet. But, yeah, we've got people who like him enough to ride with him that long. It's called the "Law of Escalating Commitment".
Look up the word "History" and see what it means it has nothing to do with the future. We have hired basketball coaches for decades and our history shows no solid results there's something about the job that is not appealing and Frank Martin has done more since he's been here that anyone...check the stats. We're not going to go out there and all of a sudden find that guy who will put us in the top 10 every year because he ain't coming here. Would a coach "K" type coach take the job, NO because we're not a basketball school. Why can go on chasing rainbows or let Frank coach out his contract and see what happens? I'd rather do that than start from scratch again and hope the basketball gods send us a miracle. The re-booting approach has failed. It's ain't happenin'.
So, you think we should just give up. You are one of those, "it is what it is", so, we should all just shut up with our concerns about our basketball team.
Frank McGuire 1965 - 1980 15 YEARS
Bill Foster 1980 - 1986 6 YEARS
George Felton 1986 - 1991 5 YEARS
Steve Newton 1991 1993 2 YEARS
Eddie Fogler 1993 -2001 8 YEARS
Dave Odom 2001 - 2008 7 YEARS
Darrin Horn 2008 - 2012 4 YEARS
Frank Martin 2012 - 8 YEARS
54 years – A lifetime to me I’m 55.
54 years, 8 coaches – average 6.75 years
Take out Newton and Horn – average 8 years
So we basically change coaches every 8 years. How has that worked out for a LIFETIME?
"Do the same thing over and over and expect a different is the definition of insanity" is a fair criticism here.
All I’m saying is lest try something different and see if we can do better with a longer tenure. Frank Mcguire set the benchmark for our program. 39 years ago. Tell me how a new coach is going to be better. Take out the emotion and show me how changing coaches every 8 years has done a dam thing for us. I want better like everyone else but I don't see Mike Kryzewski coming here.
Bill Foster 1980 - 1986 6 YEARS
George Felton 1986 - 1991 5 YEARS
Steve Newton 1991 1993 2 YEARS
Eddie Fogler 1993 -2001 8 YEARS
Dave Odom 2001 - 2008 7 YEARS
Darrin Horn 2008 - 2012 4 YEARS
Frank Martin 2012 - 8 YEARS
54 years – A lifetime to me I’m 55.
54 years, 8 coaches – average 6.75 years
Take out Newton and Horn – average 8 years
So we basically change coaches every 8 years. How has that worked out for a LIFETIME?
"Do the same thing over and over and expect a different is the definition of insanity" is a fair criticism here.
All I’m saying is lest try something different and see if we can do better with a longer tenure. Frank Mcguire set the benchmark for our program. 39 years ago. Tell me how a new coach is going to be better. Take out the emotion and show me how changing coaches every 8 years has done a dam thing for us. I want better like everyone else but I don't see Mike Kryzewski coming here.
You've given up. I get it. Just ride what we have into wherever. Every moment that happens becomes part of history as long as time exists. So history ain't over yet. Did I say anything about the future?
You can judge future results many times by past results and our history for decades sucks and that's what I'm looking at. History doesn't change king you can't call tomorrow history with the history ain't over yet anyone with a brain knows that. I am just seeing what could be the reality of our basketball.
I never give up but we have to come to grips with the possibility it could never happen, you can't fire your way to greatness. What has all the concerns for basketball gotten us in the past 100 years? It's gotten us to where we are right now and that's it so let the man coach he's a good coach. We can't keep starting all over again sooner of later we have to hold on if it's going to happen. There are a lot of other teams that would jump at the chance to hire Frank so don't fool yourself. JMO
How has your law worked out? Round and round in circles.
8 years is a LONG TIME in basketball. Seems to be like we've been more than patient. Maybe slash and burn should be our mantra going forward. Hell it cant be worse and would be a lot cheaper.
Ahhh, yeah, by definition history is pretty much over. That's why its called history. There is only past, present, and future. History is past, what's happening now is present, and what is yet to be is future. There is nothing else.
Maybe we should just drop mens basketball. That would end any bitching about the team, or at least the bitching about those that complain about the team.
There will always be unhappy fans so.....Me, I've just come to the realization I'm pulling the Gamecocks no matter who's the coach and be happy in the good times and deal with anything else. I just can't tolerate not leaving it all on the field or court but that's me. We got rid of Dave Odom and hired Horn from WKU with a record of 114-46 to find out he couldn't recruit so we give him the left foot of fellowship and brought in Frank and again thought we'd struck gold. My thoughts are, for the sake of being redundant, are to let Frank coach and not begin the entire undertaking again by rolling the dice. If he collapses in the next 2 years start taking resumes but honor the contract this time. We had 26 wins in 2017 and got screwed but got the final four the next season but lost a lot of that team. We're on the bubble right now after lots of the team rode the pines but next season looks good. And that's all I have to say about that.
I know the dictionary definition of history - always have. I also know that, as soon as you hit "Post Reply", that was history. But it was still today. That's immediate enough for anybody. And as soon as I thought of a reply, that was history, but it was still this present day - just nanoseconds ago, virtually this very moment. My history on earth will one day be over, but history won't be over until God says it's over. About five minutes of history was created as I typed this post, but it is still functionally now if not literally now.
That would be "cycles".
The past can project the future - potentially. It can even cause the future - occasionally. But it cannot necessarily determine the future - invariably.
Nope circles....we keep ending up in the same place. If someone could buy you for how smart you are then sell you for how smart you think you are they'd be rich. The big words you look up don't fool me. When God tells you your time is up then you'd be history too. Definition of History: The study of PAST events particular in human affairs. And for your future references: Synonyms include...."The past...."former times" ..."days of old"...etc....stop making middle school remarks when you utterly know what someone is saying or meaning man.
Are you familiar with some of the work quantum physicists are doing now with regards to how time is truly experienced in the physical world? As for this basketball discussion: I'll stand by what I said in post #178. You should like that because it is based upon the way you look at time.
I give Martin one more season to prove himself. If next year, we do not win 20 games, beat Clemson, and make the NCAA Tournament, then it’s time to part company. Everything has an expiration date.
Yes, he's beginning to curdle. But he's one more three-game miracle away...
if he wins the tourney, he should get at leeeast 1 more year, if he goes one and done, well, he needs to have a meeting with the AD about his Future!
He'll back next year. He'll keep being back as long as Ray is AD, provided he wins a couple of games more than he loses. Dancing won't matter. I think he has a chance to Dance next year, but roster optimization must improve. At ambitious schools, they would say: If next Year we don't Dance, he will have no more chance.
But Ray won't want to say that. He'll wait on somebody to call.
And 1 season turns to the next and then the next and an extension and more buy out for no performance. With all the coaches out there, it's unbelievable that one can't be found to do the job.
I grew up in the Frank McGuire era, watching John Roche, Tom Owens, Bobby Crimens(sp), Tom Riker, Rick Aydlet, Bob Carver, Brian Winters, etc. This was before they allowed dunks. These guys could shoot from outside and could make FOWL SHOTs. These guys we have now bore the heck out of me.
Yeah, a lot of posters on here forget when USC was a BB power. They keep saying they were never good and that's why we need to keep .500 Frank. It even continued through the Brian Winters team. After that hit and miss until Fogler who forgot we were playing in the NCAA tournament.
That was a special time. We all wanted to be #11. I was elementary school and we wore handmade Roche jerseys on the dirt basketball court during recess.
Correct..there are many younger coaches out there that would win here very quickly..but SC athletic admin would rather not. I guess they just like good ole friendships to continue.. after all, it's not their money anyway.
I'm ambivalent. I don't really care to keep him, since I think we've pretty much hit our ceiling with him. I mean, come on, it's been 8 seasons. After 8 seasons, you know what you've got. What we've got with Frank is about good as we've ever been in recent memory, slightly better even. Which is still not all that good.
But what are the real prospects for improvement?
Do we stick with a guy who has been better than our average for us, which is still not all that good, or dump him to try finding a guy who can beat the odds and get us to the tournament every couple of years or so? You have to ask if that's even possible. We all say it is and say it should be, but we have fairly decent list of coaches with track records of success who washed up here.
But what are the real prospects for improvement?
Do we stick with a guy who has been better than our average for us, which is still not all that good, or dump him to try finding a guy who can beat the odds and get us to the tournament every couple of years or so? You have to ask if that's even possible. We all say it is and say it should be, but we have fairly decent list of coaches with track records of success who washed up here.
After eight years, basketball coach will have shown you what you can expect. (Actually, it doesn't take eight years, but we can go with that for now.)
If fans are happy MAYBE making the NCAA once every four or five years, keep Frank. I'm not happy with that. So yes, I think we should get rid of Frank. I know he will be back next year.
Get it done in 2021
Or open the bank to buy-out Frank
If fans are happy MAYBE making the NCAA once every four or five years, keep Frank. I'm not happy with that. So yes, I think we should get rid of Frank. I know he will be back next year.
Get it done in 2021
Or open the bank to buy-out Frank
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