Dabo rant about the portal

[USC2USC]

They get far more than just the education for free. They get training, food, recovery, gear, electronics, stipend, etc that some estimate cost the school 50k or more on top of that free education. Pro athletes have to pay for much of what college athletes get included in their scholarship.

https://www.air.org/sites/default/files/downloads/report/Academic-Spending-vs-Athletic-Spending.pdf

This article has the median athlete costing the school 92k.

“Athletic departments spend far more per athlete than institutions spend to educate the average student—typically three to six times as much; among Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) institutions, median athletic spending was nearly $92,000 per athlete in 2010, while median academic spending per full-time equivalent (FTE) student was less than $14,000 in these same universities.“

It costs your employer a lot to employee you too....technology costs, space if you work in an office, training and development, insurance and other benefits. They still pay you.

 

[cfbfan15]

Well at least you admit it. The free tuition argument is lame. Everyone I am sure understands there are many, many students on college campuses that are on a variety of levels of scholarship. All of those, except for athletes, are still able to go out and make money from their efforts that could generate cash. Think of it this way.....a music student at Carolina that is on music scholarship from USC can still go out and earn revenue from their musical skill and talent that the USC music department is helping them develop through private lessons, faculty instruction, courses, etc.

The incredibly lavish salaries for coaches have driven all of this. Coaches can leave a school whenever they want. Now that transfer policies have loosened up for players, people seem to have issue with that including world-class hypocrite $10 million Dabo.

Now there are ways for athletes to earn some revenue off of their own likeness. Folks are upset about that too.

The playing field between the AD, coaches and the players has been made slightly more even. And I think its a good thing.

If you dont like the changes in college football, take your focus off the players and look squarely at the NCAA, conferences, ESPN and coaches. They are the ones driving the insane levels of cash and keeping it all for themselves. They created the imbalance that is simply unsustainable.

I see your argument and agree to a point, but don't you believe that some of the coaches have earned and paid their dues to be paid that way (not all). Like Nick Saban, he earns every penny he gets. I have always looked at college athletics as a job interview, or hell even as their education. I would not pay an 18 year old kid the same salary as I am paying my manager who has 10+ years of life and work experience. I am fine with the NIL have not problem with it.

Yes coaches can leave whenever they want but usually have another, better paying, job lined up. The transfer portal is more to blame, and I think that is Dabo's point. A majority of these kids are entering the portal to move to lesser of a school or no school at all. They don't know if they enter the portal if they will ever play another down of football.

 

[USC2USC]

I don't think a lot of the fans liked the lack of loyalty from coaches.

I understood it when it was a coach moving up a level, but I didn't like they way they just left.

I'm not sure it's a good idea to take a bad situation and just say "everyone do that" now.

It's fair, sure. It's just to the detriment of the game.

So still you are basically saying its ok for the coaches but not the players.

Meaning the argument is if coaches can do it players should be able to as well. Thats solid. So again, $10 million Dabo should shut his pie hole about the portal......unless he wants to give salary back and agree not to recruit athletes from the portal.

 

[CockyinNoVa]

It costs your employer a lot to employee you too....technology costs, space if you work in an office, training and development, insurance and other benefits. They still pay you.

All the things you just listed aren’t included in that 92k. Also, an employee pays into their insurance and the employees like the players create revenue in exchange for what you listed. Even if your premise was right, the 40k a year education is their payment. Not many HS educated people can make 40k a year at 18-22 working 20 hours a week on average.

 

[RattleCock]

"It's crazy, it's really sad, to be honest with you," Swinney said Wednesday at Clemson's signing day ceremony. "There's right around 2,000 kids in the portal and most of them don't have anywhere to go. There's so much tampering going on and so many adults manipulating young people. It's sad, but you know, it is what it is from that standpoint. You've got a lot of young people that; there's a time and a place, but most of the kids are in there when they shouldn't be in there."

"Some of the lessons we're teaching young people I don't think is going to benefit them well as they move through their life," Swinney said. "It is something everybody has to manage and deal with. There's no consequences. There's no rules. I'm all for transferring. I personally think we should let them go whenever they want. I just think they should sit a year and then you get that year back upon graduation. What we've done is decentivize and de-value education and I think that's the wrong approach."


Not sure this is going to go over well with recruits and players.

Well, he ain't wrong.

 

[CockyinNoVa]

I see your argument and agree to a point, but don't you believe that some of the coaches have earned and paid their dues to be paid that way (not all). Like Nick Saban, he earns every penny he gets. I have always looked at college athletics as a job interview, or hell even as their education. I would not pay an 18 year old kid the same salary as I am paying my manager who has 10+ years of life and work experience. I am fine with the NIL have not problem with it.

Yes coaches can leave whenever they want but usually have another, better paying, job lined up. The transfer portal is more to blame, and I think that is Dabo's point. A majority of these kids are entering the portal to move to lesser of a school or no school at all. They don't know if they enter the portal if they will ever play another down of football.

They are also in a high risk high reward job market. Most coaches, outside the HC, aren’t guaranteed more than one year contracts. So they’re in a position to maximize their potential earnings just like a player who wants to leave college to go pro is maximizing their potential earnings.

I think there are measures that can be changed and some hypocrisy but just can’t get behind the athletes are victims mindset.

 

[Jon Snow]

They get far more than just the education for free. They get training, food, recovery, gear, electronics, stipend, etc that some estimate cost the school 50k or more on top of that free education. Pro athletes have to pay for much of what college athletes get included in their scholarship.

https://www.air.org/sites/default/files/downloads/report/Academic-Spending-vs-Athletic-Spending.pdf

This article has the median athlete costing the school 92k.

“Athletic departments spend far more per athlete than institutions spend to educate the average student—typically three to six times as much; among Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) institutions, median athletic spending was nearly $92,000 per athlete in 2010, while median academic spending per full-time equivalent (FTE) student was less than $14,000 in these same universities.“

So, you’re saying athletics departments are providing food, recovery, and treatment out of generosity? I think it’s called the “training table” for a reason. Coaches are trying to pack pounds on these guys for a reason. Gear? You mean things like Under Armor that is supplied by UA (along with the millions paid to the school and coaches). I am not saying athletes receive nothing of value. They obviously do. But it pales in comparison to what the coaches and schools receive. How well would it go over in true professional sports if the coaches were making between $500,000 and $10,000,000, while the athletes made less than $100,000?

 

[SHillTIger]

About 1.2%get signed by the NFL and less than 1% actually make a team. I saw different numbers above but there are multiple websites that are tracking the portal numbers. Right now there are over 2000 in portal for just football. I have seen numbers as low as 10% and as high as 35% not getting a new scholarship. So lets say 25% dont. Thats about 500 kids a year who will not get a degree all because some one told them they should be starting or they feel like they should be playing more or playing earlier. Long term this is going to hurt way more kids than anyone imagines. I am not against the portal but there needs to be some rules to cut down on the crazy number of kids who are going to get screwed because they are not as good as they think they are. There is a really good article out there about a Michigan kid who went in the portal as a high 4 star(top 100 recruit also) and ended up at Temple but it took him 18 months to get an offer. Some really good insight from a kid who almost got screwed by the portal.

 

[CockyinNoVa]

So, you’re saying athletics departments are providing food, recovery, and treatment out of generosity? I think it’s called the “training table” for a reason. Coaches are trying to pack pounds on these guys for a reason. Gear? You mean things like Under Armor that is supplied by UA (along with the millions paid to the school and coaches). I am not saying athletes receive nothing of value. They obviously do. But it pales in comparison to what the coaches and schools receive. How well would it go over in true professional sports if the coaches were making between $500,000 and $10,000,000, while the athletes made less than $100,000?

There are athletes basically making 100k while coaches make millions when you factor in all they are paying out of pocket that the college athletes get included. A pro athlete has to pay for all that designer and customized to their body food unlike the college kids. I’ve said that things are perfect but they aren’t unpaid victims like some are pretending.

 

[Lurker123]

So still you are basically saying its ok for the coaches but not the players.

Well, my first option is that it's good for neither. Maybe I was unclear.

 

[USC2USC]

I see your argument and agree to a point, but don't you believe that some of the coaches have earned and paid their dues to be paid that way (not all). Like Nick Saban, he earns every penny he gets. I have always looked at college athletics as a job interview, or hell even as their education. I would not pay an 18 year old kid the same salary as I am paying my manager who has 10+ years of life and work experience. I am fine with the NIL have not problem with it.

Yes coaches can leave whenever they want but usually have another, better paying, job lined up. The transfer portal is more to blame, and I think that is Dabo's point. A majority of these kids are entering the portal to move to lesser of a school or no school at all. They don't know if they enter the portal if they will ever play another down of football.

The problem with your Saban analogy is that, within a college football program, the coaches role and the players role are very different. One could argue those years of experience are needed for a coach to coach at a high level. For the players, HS is sufficient to develop the skill in many cases to be able to compete for starting jobs on a team.

Also, don't kid yourself.....Saban and $10 million Dabo are not making those salaries based on seniority. They are making those salaries based on the success the players are producing on the field.

Also, with the portal....players know there is a possibility they may not get picked up and that may mean their college football playing days are over. This is separate from their academic career because they can still move home, transfer their academic credits to a local college and complete their degree. Non-athletes transfer schools ALL the time. And they dont have to "sit out" a year.

 

[Lurker123]

Non-athletes transfer schools ALL the time. And they dont have to "sit out" a year.

Technically, they were already sitting out since they weren't playing. 🙂

 

[USC2USC]

There are athletes basically making 100k while coaches make millions when you factor in all they are paying out of pocket that the college athletes get included. A pro athlete has to pay for all that designer and customized to their body food unlike the college kids. I’ve said that things are perfect but they aren’t unpaid victims like some are pretending.

You are wrong. They are absolutely unpaid. That means they earn no salary.

The items provided by the athletic department are items the AD has determined are needed for the ultimate success of the program that generates the millions. The specialized diets, the specialized gear and equipment to reduce injuries and promote success, all of it.

 

[Lakecock1]

So to summarize...

"My competitive advantage has vanished almost overnight. I will now complain incessantly a manner that appears altruistic. Make sure you catch my good side if any photos."

BINGO! It's just another in a very long line of 'look at me' moments.

Not everything is rosy in Clemson these days, so Dabo is attempting to distract attention from their problems.

 

[mcbear30]

The fact that he frames it as a negative result for the players is absolutely laughable, but is typical of Dabo’s incredibly poor character. He’s as crooked as a dog’s hind leg.

 

[USC2USC]

The fact that he frames it as a negative result for the players is absolutely laughable, but is typical of Dabo’s incredibly poor character. He’s as crooked as a dog’s hind leg.

1,000% spot on.

 

[USC2USC]

Technically, they were already sitting out since they weren't playing. 🙂

I am saying that in reference to $10 million Dabo who advocates that any player transferring should be required to sit out for a year.

 

[cfbfan15]

The problem with your Saban analogy is that, within a college football program, the coaches role and the players role are very different. One could argue those years of experience are needed for a coach to coach at a high level. For the players, HS is sufficient to develop the skill in many cases to be able to compete for starting jobs on a team.

Also, don't kid yourself.....Saban and $10 million Dabo are not making those salaries based on seniority. They are making those salaries based on the success the players are producing on the field.

Also, with the portal....players know there is a possibility they may not get picked up and that may mean their college football playing days are over. This is separate from their academic career because they can still move home, transfer their academic credits to a local college and complete their degree. Non-athletes transfer schools ALL the time. And they dont have to "sit out" a year.

Compete yes, but i think there in lies the issue. The players ae transferring out because they do not want to compete they want it to be handed to them. There is a reason they are not starting, hopefully at this level politics do not come into play, therefore someone is better than them, so rather than working they just want to tuck tail and run. Agree, dabo and saban are not based on sonority but based on results, they are the only two active coaches who have multiple championships, money they have earned. I used earned and rebut your High School argument with DJU and Rattler. Both received substantial NIL payment, which I am fine with, but so far their High School abilities have not transferred to the college level.

Again, I would not pay an 18-22 year old higher salaries to run my business with no track record of success and knowing first hand, as a parent, how immature even the most mature are at that age. Yes non athletes do not have to sit out a year if they transfer academically and neither do the student athletes who transfer. The transfer does not stop them from working towards their degree just from playing their sport, and that is only upon a second transfer.

I am still a big proponent of earning something, and even in academics how many straight A students in high school fail out of college? High school sports or academics do not come close to preparing one for the next step, it is simply the shown ability to do something at a high level, to then earn an opportunity in college, then if they are able to continue to perform at a high level both non athletes, and athletes then they get an opportunity at the next level, the NFL or the workforce.

Im sure in your first job you were not paid the same as even mid level people, but through work and success you were able to get there.

 

[CockyinNoVa]

You are wrong. They are absolutely unpaid. That means they earn no salary.

The items provided by the athletic department are items the AD has determined are needed for the ultimate success of the program that generates the millions. The specialized diets, the specialized gear and equipment to reduce injuries and promote success, all of it.

I wish I had gotten their non salary in college. Does your job not provide stuff so you can maximize their profit? Again, the system isn’t perfect but to pretend a free education isn’t a form of payment isn’t true. Also, why are we devaluing the fact these kids are getting free educations and network connections that will result in lifelong higher earning power? I’m not against NIL, but I am against the false narrative these athletes are victims. They freely enter into a contract to play sports at these universities.

 

[Lurker123]

I am saying that in reference to $10 million Dabo who advocates that any player transferring should be required to sit out for a year.

Okay, but I was responding to your comment about non athletes transferring. Just trying to keep things lighter.

 

[USC2USC]

Compete yes, but i think there in lies the issue. The players ae transferring out because they do not want to compete they want it to be handed to them. There is a reason they are not starting, hopefully at this level politics do not come into play, therefore someone is better than them, so rather than working they just want to tuck tail and run. Agree, dabo and saban are not based on sonority but based on results, they are the only two active coaches who have multiple championships, money they have earned. I used earned and rebut your High School argument with DJU and Rattler. Both received substantial NIL payment, which I am fine with, but so far their High School abilities have not transferred to the college level.

Again, I would not pay an 18-22 year old higher salaries to run my business with no track record of success and knowing first hand, as a parent, how immature even the most mature are at that age. Yes non athletes do not have to sit out a year if they transfer academically and neither do the student athletes who transfer. The transfer does not stop them from working towards their degree just from playing their sport, and that is only upon a second transfer.

I am still a big proponent of earning something, and even in academics how many straight A students in high school fail out of college? High school sports or academics do not come close to preparing one for the next step, it is simply the shown ability to do something at a high level, to then earn an opportunity in college, then if they are able to continue to perform at a high level both non athletes, and athletes then they get an opportunity at the next level, the NFL or the workforce.

Im sure in your first job you were not paid the same as even mid level people, but through work and success you were able to get there.

"rebut your High School argument with DJU and Rattler. Both received substantial NIL payment, which I am fine with, but so far their High School abilities have not transferred to the college level."

You cant really believe that. He was 15-2 as a starting QB at OU including throwing for over 3,000 yards in 2020 and leading OU to the Big 12 title and a 35 point beatdown of #13 Florida in the Cotton Bowl.

 

[USC2USC]

I wish I had gotten their non salary in college. Does your job not provide stuff so you can maximize their profit? Again, the system isn’t perfect but to pretend a free education isn’t a form of payment isn’t true. Also, why are we devaluing the fact these kids are getting free educations and network connections that will result in lifelong higher earning power? I’m not against NIL, but I am against the false narrative these athletes are victims. They freely enter into a contract to play sports at these universities.

I am not sure I see folks saying the athletes are victims. There is a perception they are exploited by the current structure which is 100% true.

 

[turncock]

And can you say with a straight face say the players themselves are not a very large reason why those CU teams made the playoffs? The coaches didnt do it alone. That is where the $ imbalance is unsustainable. If eternal victim Dabo can cash $10 million dollar checks that are funded from success on the field those players accomplished but he still is against any revenue share for the players......TOTAL hypocrosy. If he is truly against the big cash of modern college football, why doesnt he give most of that back to maybe fund academic pursuits that he claims to cherish so dearly.

He thinks players transferring should be forced to sit out a year. Yet, he doesnt think coaches leaving for a job at another school should be forced to do the same. Hypocrite!

Again, he is a TOTAL hypocrite on this and I am glad he is finally being exposed for that. Surprised so many of our "fans" seem to defend him.

He can be correct and also be a hypocrite. A young mind can often be restless and would benefit from boundaries for direction. The ability to whimsically bounce from team to team without pause seems detrimental to overall development for most.

 

[Baltcock96]

"It's crazy, it's really sad, to be honest with you," Swinney said Wednesday at Clemson's signing day ceremony. "There's right around 2,000 kids in the portal and most of them don't have anywhere to go. There's so much tampering going on and so many adults manipulating young people. It's sad, but you know, it is what it is from that standpoint. You've got a lot of young people that; there's a time and a place, but most of the kids are in there when they shouldn't be in there."

"Some of the lessons we're teaching young people I don't think is going to benefit them well as they move through their life," Swinney said. "It is something everybody has to manage and deal with. There's no consequences. There's no rules. I'm all for transferring. I personally think we should let them go whenever they want. I just think they should sit a year and then you get that year back upon graduation. What we've done is decentivize and de-value education and I think that's the wrong approach."


Not sure this is going to go over well with recruits and players.

So you can lie and cheat and be the player into signing but Dabo advocates they must sit a year for making the wrong decision.

 

[USC2USC]

He can be correct and also be a hypocrite. A young mind can often be restless and would benefit from boundaries for direction. The ability to whimsically bounce from team to team without pause seems detrimental to overall development for most.

Should the player and his family not be able to make that decision? Just because you don't agree with their decision does not mean that shouldn't have the fundamental right to to make it.

 

[Boom4life]

About 1.2%get signed by the NFL and less than 1% actually make a team. I saw different numbers above but there are multiple websites that are tracking the portal numbers. Right now there are over 2000 in portal for just football. I have seen numbers as low as 10% and as high as 35% not getting a new scholarship. So lets say 25% dont. Thats about 500 kids a year who will not get a degree all because some one told them they should be starting or they feel like they should be playing more or playing earlier. Long term this is going to hurt way more kids than anyone imagines. I am not against the portal but there needs to be some rules to cut down on the crazy number of kids who are going to get screwed because they are not as good as they think they are. There is a really good article out there about a Michigan kid who went in the portal as a high 4 star(top 100 recruit also) and ended up at Temple but it took him 18 months to get an offer. Some really good insight from a kid who almost got screwed by the portal.

Life is full of choices. No one said they would always make the right one. But it should be there choice/chance to take. If they want to risk it all so be it. You would have to go back 50 years to get to a point where college football was about education. It hasn’t been about education in a long long time. Hell I won’t even push my kids to get one. I think their are better alternatives out there.

 

[Boom4life]

So you can lie and cheat and be the player into signing but Dabo advocates they must sit a year for making the wrong decision.

They get the year back upon graduation. Honestly I like that philosophy.

I will also add that the year they have to sit should be equal to a redshirt. They can still practice and train with the team.

 

[mikeypen]

I am not sure I see folks saying the athletes are victims. There is a perception they are exploited by the current structure which is 100% true.

A perception by you. Dont project your feelings on others. Typical entitled mentality. No surprise

 

[cfbfan15]

"rebut your High School argument with DJU and Rattler. Both received substantial NIL payment, which I am fine with, but so far their High School abilities have not transferred to the college level."

You cant really believe that. He was 15-2 as a starting QB at OU including throwing for 3,000 yards in 2020 and leading OU to the Big 12 title and a 35 point beatdown of #13 Florida in the Cotton Bowl.

not discounting his 2020 season but failed this season. He was eligible to go pro but did not. And the big 12 in 2020 was pretty much a joke, on par with the acc. not arguing that he doesn't have descent numbers but i have him at 12-2 as a starter. 9-2 last season and 3-0 this season with wins over tulane, western carolina, and nebraska? Also had 11-5 td to int ratio this season. All this being said that doesn't mean he isn't going to ball out for you guys but stepping into a conference that has much better defenses than that of the big 12.

 

[Boom4life]

A perception by you. Dont project your feelings on others. Typical entitled mentality. No surprise

No there are a lot of people that share that same feeling. I am one of them along with many others who have expressed this feeling in this very thread.

 

[turncock]

Should the player and his family not be able to make that decision? Just because you don't agree with their decision does not mean that shouldn't have the fundamental right to to make it.

It's definitely a gray area subject. Many of these kids don't have that type of family structure. Many parents shouldn't be parents. I don't believe sitting for a certain number of games if they decide to transfer is necessarily depriving them of much and probably promotes better decision making in the long run.

I also believe the 21-year old drinking age is a good law and kids shouldn't be allowed to choose their gender and take harmful hormones to accomplish that objective. Just my opinion.

 

[CockyinNoVa]

I am not sure I see folks saying the athletes are victims. There is a perception they are exploited by the current structure which is 100% true.

Exploited is just a synonym for victim.

 

[USC2USC]

not discounting his 2020 season but failed this season. He was eligible to go pro but did not. And the big 12 in 2020 was pretty much a joke, on par with the acc. not arguing that he doesn't have descent numbers but i have him at 12-2 as a starter. 9-2 last season and 3-0 this season with wins over tulane, western carolina, and nebraska? Also had 11-5 td to int ratio this season. All this being said that doesn't mean he isn't going to ball out for you guys but stepping into a conference that has much better defenses than that of the big 12.

He looked pretty good against that Gator defense.

 

[USC2USC]

Exploited is just a synonym for victim.

No its not.

 

[cfbfan15]

He looked pretty good against that Gator defense.

In all fairness so did Jason Brown

Rattler: 14-23 for 247 and 3 TD's
Brown: 14-24 for 175 and 2 TD's

 

[mcbear30]

Those of y’all who still seem to think there is any chance of clawing-back the old ways of college football are delusional. It’s over. The system isn’t going to revert. Just be glad we’re in a conference that keeps us potentially relevant.

 

[USC2USC]

In all fairness so did Jason Brown

Rattler: 14-23 for 247 and 3 TD's
Brown: 14-24 for 175 and 2 TD's

Those were separate years against different teams.

 

[bayrooster]

"Dabo Rant" would be a great name for a forum. Daily ruminations from the upstate.

 

[cfbfan15]

Those were separate years against different teams.

Last years florida defense ranked 55th in total defense, which rattler beat, this year 46th, brown beat. And florida last year was 8-4, going 1-4 vs ranked teams. Like i said, we will see, he may ball out, but I wouldn't put to much stock in how he played vs an overrated florida team.

 

[aceman39]

So to summarize...

"My competitive advantage has vanished almost overnight. I will now complain incessantly a manner that appears altruistic. Make sure you catch my good side if any photos."

Post of the day!!