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Things many of you don't want to hear

Discussion in 'Fighting Gamecocks Forum' started by cockyferg, Sep 9, 2018.

  1. cockyferg

    cockyferg Member
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    I have seen so many posts on here about how we're behind in talent and need 3-4 years to catch up.

    1. The problem is, we're not going to catch up. Two of the top tier programs in the country are basically within 150 miles of us. In today's college game, a 9-3 season is meaningless for 99% of college teams. Once you lose a game, your shot at a playoff berth is 0, unless you're Alabama or Clemson. Kids want to win championships, and today's kids are not the patient kids of years ago. They whine and transfer if they don't play immediately. The best kids aren't going to come here, if they want to win. Many of you need to accept the fact it would take a catastrophic melt down in uga and Clemson for us to catch up. Maybe hillinski is the real deal, and maybe a top tier qb can give us the chance to catch up, but I'm not confident with them pulling in higher ranked QBs.

    2. Jake Bentley is a mediocre QB. I know some of you had great hope after his freshman campaign, but he just hasn't developed. He can hit wide open guys, but doesn't make the tough throws against good teams. He is okay, but he just isn't as good as some people think he is or hope he will be. Many of you will disagree, but the evidence is in the film. He makes some great throws here and there, but overall he's just okay. I love his leadership, his work ethic, and his willingness to admit when he hasn't played well. He is a great kid, and a good QB, but he's just not great.

    3. I'd love to see them put in Joyner. I know he isn't a great passer, but his ability to move the pocket and gain yards with his legs could outweigh some passing deficiency. Teams don't respect Jake's mobility, so it makes us one dimensional When we're in passing downs. They would at least have to use a player to spy Joyner, which could leave one less pass defender. Plus, Jake's probably got one or two more years, so Joyner could have more years to grow in the offense.

    4. I have not seen this "new offense" that was promised. It's exactly the same. That is undeniable. I kept wondering in the off-season.... Muschamp just kept saying we would play with "tempo", but he never said up tempo. My supposition is that he was trying to appease the complainers by using misleading language. We definitely played with tempo.. The exact same tempo we have always played with. Ssssssslllloooowww. On a side note, I think we tried too hard to force the ball to debo. I think Edwards is better. When he caught passes, he trucked defenders and fought for yac. He's the real deal.

    5. I hope they'll give hillinski a chance next season. If he's as good as advertised, he'll beat Jake out. But, I don't think they'd play him over Jake even if he is better in practice.

    Feel free to disagree and let's have a cordial debate. I'm willing to change my mind. I've been a gamecock for 36 years, and I love the program, but I don't think we'll get back to the 2013 season in the foreseeable future.
     
  2. Art__Vandelay

    Art__Vandelay Active Member
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    Nothing to debate. You’re right on every point.

    I’ve been skeptical of the whole “catch up” logic as well. If an object is already way ahead of you, and it’s moving at a much more rapid pace, you will never catch it.
     
  3. sclawman77

    sclawman77 Well-Known Member
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    Don't know about Joyner but overall agree with your points. We're a mediocre SEC team and don't see that changing anytime soon.
     
  4. Cockopotamus

    Cockopotamus Member
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    Point 5: Jake will leave after this season and go somewhere around the 4th or 5th round.
     
  5. cockyferg

    cockyferg Member
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    Honestly I hope that he does leave. He'll be a good backup in the NFL somewhere
     
    Cockopotamus likes this.
  6. ExpatCarolinian

    ExpatCarolinian Active Member
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    Edwards is fantastic. Would love to see him featured more.

    As for our rivals, I don’t think things are that dire. Clemson had 20 years of extreme mediocrity between Ford and Dabo. These things are cyclical. They will suck again some day.

    The most frustrating thing to me as a Gamecock fan was we didn’t grasp the gold ring when we has the chance, 2011 to 2013. Clemson was still building. UGA, UT and UF were all average or bad. And we let Mizzou enter the league and win the division twice when it should have been our turn. Many reasons, but that was our window to take advantage and hang some banners in Williams Brice. And we just couldn’t quite get there.

    Another window will open one day. Maybe UGA will have a major scandal. Feels like UT is a structurally bad program for the forseesble future. Our like our chances better than them. UF will be back sooner than not with Mullen.
     
  7. ExpatCarolinian

    ExpatCarolinian Active Member
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    Jake promised to stay until we win a championship.
     
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  8. sclawman77

    sclawman77 Well-Known Member
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    No offense but that's a bit high for him. Yesterday's performance hurt his stock. NFL defenses are going to swarm like Georgia.
     
    cornstock84 likes this.
  9. bucketdad

    bucketdad Well-Known Member
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    Good post. However I think "catch up" is more about getting a green light to spend more money than it is about actually catching up.
     
    SCexpat38, Freddie.B.Cocky and CAIN# like this.
  10. robertfootball

    robertfootball Well-Known Member
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    He won't sniff an NFL roster.
     
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  11. 4ever2thee

    4ever2thee Member
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    This Board is a trip. Just a few days ago, most around here were predicting a SC win. I thought we would lose 38-28, so I was wrong too. But, one thing I have not been wrong about is garnet blindness. UGA and CU are recruiting at a level I’ve never seen. We’re not going to catch them anytime soon. It’s just a sad fact. We’ve recruited too many WRs and not enough lineman. The good news is this is exactly how Dabo started. The bad news is Dabo was not competing against programs at UGA and SC that were recuiting at levels that are off the charts.
     
  12. sclawman77

    sclawman77 Well-Known Member
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    Not rocket science-they can sign the studs because they're making the playoffs and playing for titles. We're playing for the Outback bowl.
     
  13. Judson1

    Judson1 Well-Known Member
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    Two things...
    In year three I at least wanted to see toughness. You may not be good, but you can knock the $hit out of somebody! I saw a rodeo yesterday and NO we were not the bull!

    I understand Joyner maybe not being ready. But if he can’t make all those dink and dunk throws Bentley threw yesterday then shame on us for signing him. May have took him as a QB just to get him?
    Damn I’m tired of being pushed around!
     
  14. 4ever2thee

    4ever2thee Member
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    To be fair to Jake, a lot of the short passes were due to good coverage and pass rush. Recognizing what’s going on is the central job of the QB. Joyner would have been embarrassed and demoralized yesterday.

    Where are the posters who boasted how great our OL is under Wolf? Our recruiting needs to step up significantly and immediately.
     
  15. tidalcock

    tidalcock Well-Known Member
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    Unfortunately, I have to agree with you.
     
  16. cornstock84

    cornstock84 Member
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    I think your sentiments are pretty close, but I will add to a couple of them.

    1) While you're right in that it would be extremely difficult or impossible to catch up to the talent level of UGA and CU, that doesn't mean that we can't close the gap at least partially. I agree with what you said about today's players generally, but not always. Just take CU's recruiting compared to SC in the beginning to middle of the SOS era. We were both pretty evenly matched. Ergo, it's not impossible to improve recruiting steadily over the stretch of a few years.

    Catching UGA in recruiting is always going to be next to impossible given the number of blue chip recruits in their state along with the insane level of recruiting under Kirby Smart. Nevertheless, the games are usually close (yesterday notwithstanding) despite the talent gap.


    2) Jake doesn't seem to have a very good ability to bounce back after things get tough (facing adversity in coachspeak). He did come out and lead a scoring drive after the pick-6, but generally speaking when the offense stalls and gets behind he has a tough time refocusing and regaining composure.


    4) I do think the offense has improved in execution and efficiency with the exception of the run game. With the run game being ineffective and used sparingly it prevents the passing game from opening up. The tempo was faster in the first half than last year—just look at the fact that the offense ran like 45 plays in the first half. The problem is that 32 of those plays were passes.

    There seems to be more of a variety of plays in the passing game, but with multiple drops and Jake missing a few open receivers it hurt the chances of successful drives.
     
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  17. johnnohj

    johnnohj Member
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    Good post. I wish it were not, but it is.
     
    17 johnnohj, Sep 9, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
  18. SCsandlapper

    SCsandlapper Member
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    Jake is not the answer. Time will tell on Helinski. Both were 4*s. Long as daddy is coach, Bentley gets the nod.
    Joyner could potentially be like Shaw. Why not try?
    Offense is more of what they saw at UF when muschamp was there. My expectations got lowered a lot yesterday. The window just got slammed on us I believe. It’s now uga and bama again
     
  19. funktavious

    funktavious Well-Known Member
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    We could have had Peyton Manning back there yesterday and we would not have won. We lost that game on the LOS.
     
  20. king ward

    king ward Well-Known Member
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    I'm in 80% agreement with you. I think that one of your points is probable and three more are on target. After I've seen a little more, my agreement percentage could go higher. Right now, 80%.
     
  21. chucktowncock

    chucktowncock Well-Known Member
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    are you drunk?
     
  22. cockyferg

    cockyferg Member
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    I'm open to discussion. I could change my mind later too, haha
     
  23. king ward

    king ward Well-Known Member
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    I do believe I've seen some shift in the offense. Not saying anything revolutionary now, but I'm not sure you can go by this game yesterday. Tell you what, playing fast means something different than when Oregon first started doing it and before the officials held up the the game to let the defense substitute if the offense does. It ain't ever going to be the way it was. But as for the offense itself, I think I see some refinement. I think we need to observe it a little longer to see what it really consists of.
     
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  24. jbouton

    jbouton Member
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    #5 really concerns, this is a definite possibility. Current QB will definitely be around for his senior season.
     
  25. slufstuff

    slufstuff Member
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    Good post OP. I agree with your points. I am waiting to see how we handle Kentucky. (Yes I know we have Marshall and Vandy before UK, but honestly if we lose to either of those we have major problems). Kentucky has slowly improved themselves, despite having recruiting classes that on paper are inferior to USC. If we drop another game to them, I think it says much more about the state of our program than losing to UGa.
     
  26. GandBinNC

    GandBinNC Member
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    OP may or may not have been around in the early 80's. Good to remember that those same two rivals (Georgia and Clemson) won consecutive national championships (UGA - '80, CU - '81), and yet that dominance did not last forever. Carolina closed the gap and both UGA and CU had lean years over the next couple of decades. Someone earlier mentioned that things are cyclical, and that is spot-on.

    Carolina is light-years ahead of where we were in the early 80's in so may ways:

    * Institutional stability President Holderman was Trump-like in his megalomania and instability - he was toxic to the athletic department, and in combination with an always meddlesome State Legislature, Carolina's athletic programs suffered greatly in those days. Our current president is not only completely sane, but is a huge backer of our AD, our coaches and our programs. Beyond that, he and the last couple of presidents before, going back to Palms, have managed to keep that meddlesome legislature at bay.

    * Stability within athletic department leadership: One strong AD rather than the fractured environment we used to endure, including three separate athletic directors at one time - the main AD - Dietzel/Carlen, the Director of Basketball Operations (McGuire), and a third AD for spring sports.

    * Conference affiliation: SEC membership alone makes USC incalculably better off than we once were, as we wandered through the wilderness of major independent status.

    * Facilities: No comparison to where we were in those days.

    OP's other points are not without merit, but the doom and gloom of the first point is a little over the top.
     
    26 GandBinNC, Sep 9, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
  27. 4ever2thee

    4ever2thee Member
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    I don’t love our Prez, but he does support athletics. So, our prob is not with him.
     
  28. RashCock

    RashCock Member
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    In all likelihood we will lose our 5th games in a row to aTm, Kentucky, and Clemson this season. Let that sink in.

    Instead of grabbing a hot new coach to continue the momentum we had, our AD begged a guy who was ready to leave, to stay on. The football staff was allowed to quit recruiting because nobody was at the wheel.

    Then our AD was surprised that the same coach, when he wakes up and realizes that the ship is sinking, bails on us. Our AD has a huge head start to grab someone again in the hiring process. He completely fails and has to resort to hiring a guy that could not win at Florida because he has zero idea how to implement and oversee an offense.

    Here we are. Here will be remain. Watching 5 in a row turn to 6 maybe 7??? We have to stop this cycle at some point. We all love our ole baseball coach, but we need someone in here fixing this now because if the next hire we focus on making isn't our AD, then you can bet our grandchildren will be looking at the same old doormat SEC east team that we have become.
     
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  29. 4ever2thee

    4ever2thee Member
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    I agree. Very nice man. Exemplary baseball coach. Hillbilly.
     
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  30. GADAWGinIraq

    GADAWGinIraq Member
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    Clemson has recruited well, but not elite. They have recruited QB elite and have developed players very, very well.
    Here's recruiting since 2015. Parentheses is per player star average according to Rivals.
    2015: Clemson 6 (3.59), UGA 9 (3.71), SC 26 (3.04) *** 2015 UGA doesn't include Demetris Robertson which would have put UGA above Clemson
    2016: UGA 3 (3.69), SC 16 (3.24), Clemson 22 (3.86)
    2017: UGA 1 (4.19), Clemson 8 (4.06, SC 18 (3.38)
    2018: UGA 1 (4.06), Clemson 5 (3.5), SC 15 (3.44)
    Kirby has UGA in rarefied air in recruiting. Clemson won the lottery with Deshaun Watson and he really elevated their program. If Muschamp can land the right recruit or 2, your next step could be closer than you think.
     
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  31. section907

    section907 Well-Known Member
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    Not blaming the QB. But better QB play would make a big difference. We have the talent.
     
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  32. bayrooster

    bayrooster Well-Known Member
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    I think that's a delusion at this point.
     
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  33. WorldTraveler

    WorldTraveler Member
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  34. RockThrillCock

    RockThrillCock Well-Known Member
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    Really? I just see a boy out there who got an unfair advantage because of his Dad. This happens all the time in life in that it’s who you know. In reality, we should be happy to be second in the East. I say this because that in itself in unrealistic. Kentucky, Florida an Missouri all think they can beat us. It is a real shame we handed the keys to a coach who threatened to leave. A game against Michigan was his resume. Hurst bailed us out. I just hope coaches can be humble and change.
     
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  35. WorldTraveler

    WorldTraveler Member
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    Have always thought that our problem was more a geographical one than anything else. That problem has been magnified since Carolina joined the SEC. We just can't recruit from fertile areas like the Georgias, Floridas, etc. Even when we were in the ACC Clemson kept a winning record against us, and we only won an ACC title once under Paul Dietzel.
     
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  36. robertfootball

    robertfootball Well-Known Member
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    Yes definitely. I expect almost mistake free football from a 3 year starter.
     
  37. Garnetskies

    Garnetskies Member
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    I see no leaders....thats one problem
    I see Jake.not getting better...problem #2
    Just got back to Winston Salem from cola town and rewatched the game well 1st half anyway....if this was the 206 team we would have lost 89-9...team speed has definitely increased that said we need to get faster at LB especially, problem #3
    We are smaller compared to UGA Problem #3
    Girls behind me in 401 east club level.yesterday commented damn they look so intimidating..talking about UGA strecthing...i turned around and said its cause they have on white but after watching the game yep they make us look small at most positions.
    I actually like the play calling of Bmac but you have to mix in more run....problem#4

    Tyson is our best back..dowdle ran scared yesterday..problem #5
    Oline did a great job pass blocking..
    Srill need to mix in more run..Tyson and Turner also
    But run blocking was bad most of the time but some holes were made...problem#6
    Our Dline needs to eat more steaks and potatoes ..
    Talented we are but very young and need to eat eat eat and oh yeah did i say eat and live in the weight room... Problem #7
    I think 2021-22 we should have the horses to compete....
    Sux but thats the way it is
    .we have a coach who i believe in but most of the world doesnt and im ok with that..he is a tireless recruiter and will continue to be.If he doesnt work out for some reason and god i hope he does..the cupboard will surely not be empty like the one inherited by him

    .
     
  38. MookieBlaylock9

    MookieBlaylock9 Well-Known Member
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    Oh, god. Yes, just skip to the 3rd string QB. Maybe he will be as good as Nunez or Mcilwain. They were saviors previously.

    I'm not surprised that people seem to need to find one person or thing to blame. Bentley is not the reason we're losing.

    Just continue to recruit better. Talent is not always going to mean more wins. Clemson and UGA have good coaches too. If you as a fan can't excited about the football team because UGA and Clemson are good, how do you think teams in the SEC west feel? They have been behind Bama for years. Get over it and be patient.
     
  39. Garnetskies

    Garnetskies Member
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    Ill say this we cld have used Nunezs running ability yesterday...lol
     
  40. robertfootball

    robertfootball Well-Known Member
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    Nobody wants the 3rd string to be the starter. What we want is our coaches to take advantage of the new 4 game rule. It would hurt nothing to put him in, in the second half yesterday. You're never going to know what you have if you don't throw him out there in front of live bullets.
     

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